flipping front rims?

[DGR Designs]

hey i am thinking about doing this to old 400 along with some wheel spacers (stainless steel im getting them machined) and i am wondering the pros/cons about flipping the fronts besides teh fact that your brake gear is all out in the open. but i was thinking i could perhaps fabricate a new guard fron some sheet aluminum i have to replace the plastic one and also shield the brake gear for flipped rims. lets hear the good hard info!

[cdalejef]

It creats bump steer and will make your tierods bend easier....bad idea!
Also your steel inserts for the taper lug nuts will be on the wrong side and won't center the wheel.

[hetrick425ex]

exactly, it will put a ton more leverage on everything....broken ball joints are not fun! Trust me!!!!!!!

[Sparks425Ex]

Bad Idea...Mucho Bumpsteero.....:eek2:

[raptor_02]

i disagree with everyone of you. I have did that to a 300ex, a warrior , a raptor and now my 400ex and I have only had problems with the yamaha quads. As far as my 400ex I have raced several MX races like that and I have never bent a tie rod or never harmed anything else. But when I did take my works shocks off my quad I noticed the bottom bushings were wore, i don't know if that had anything to do with it or not but that's the only problems it has caused me and that can be fixed for 40 bucks. That's also after about 6 months of riding so those bushings probaly needed replaced soon anyways. But I see no problems with flipping the front wheels around, its a cheap way to get your quad wide and I think it is very effective. I wouldn't reccomend spacers though, they make your axle bend a whole lot easier. I have a LS +4 axle and front wheels flipped and that puts me about the same width front and rear. So if your a poor boy like me I would try it. Here is a pic of mine like that.

[toby400ex]

i would think that the extra leverage would make your shocks bottom like a mother on those big mx jumps, unless the works are valved for it or something. But on stock shocks they will bottom easily.:eek2:

[flyin#5]

Originally posted by Jeff@QuadShop
It creats bump steer and will make your tierods bend easier....bad idea!
Also your steel inserts for the taper lug nuts will be on the wrong side and won't center the wheel.

yeah i always wondered how they got the wheel to go on perfecto becuase the taper was on the wrong side. when i tried this they would wobble like a mofo. if i was you i would get some a-arms or but some spacers

[400EXrider#91]

my dtem hit on the disc brake so i can't flip mine what do you ppl do to fix that?

[zzbudzz]

i flipped mine and i didn't know what bump steer was until i went riding trails ! i bent a tie rod on a muddy jump racing .big deal about the bent tie rods just replace them.but , the bump steer sucks!

[honda400exrider]

i wouldnt get spacers and flip the wheels, that is dangerous! thats like +5 on each side if u have stock rims and big spacers. i have spacers and dont regret it, but if u JUmp REAL hard or race motorcross, i wouldnt.

BTW i tightened my shocks all the way, but also im only 130 pounds so i dont bottom out often. only when hitting pretty big jumps with no landings...

[raptor_02]

Originally posted by toby400ex
i would think that the extra leverage would make your shocks bottom like a mother on those big mx jumps, unless the works are valved for it or something. But on stock shocks they will bottom easily.:eek2: well i already ordered my ELKAS and told them stock a-arms. I hope that there not to soft where i have my wheels flipped :(

[honda400exrider]

if i where to order shocks, would it be +2 and my weight, or just add like 30 pounds to my weight?

[raptor_02]

they will ask what a-arms you want them setup for

[flaneledholes]

Originally posted by raptor_02
i disagree with everyone of you. I have did that to a 300ex, a warrior , a raptor and now my 400ex and I have only had problems with the yamaha quads. As far as my 400ex I have raced several MX races like that and I have never bent a tie rod or never harmed anything else. But when I did take my works shocks off my quad I noticed the bottom bushings were wore, i don't know if that had anything to do with it or not but that's the only problems it has caused me and that can be fixed for 40 bucks. That's also after about 6 months of riding so those bushings probaly needed replaced soon anyways. But I see no problems with flipping the front wheels around, its a cheap way to get your quad wide and I think it is very effective. I wouldn't reccomend spacers though, they make your axle bend a whole lot easier. I have a LS +4 axle and front wheels flipped and that puts me about the same width front and rear. So if your a poor boy like me I would try it. Here is a pic of mine like that. \

I agree 100% with him... I did it for a while, but I went back to stock for fear of something breaking. Although I have yet to see any problems from it. I do not reccomend the spacers along with it. One or the other will not hurt. I suggest you go with the spacers, and keep the front rims the same, for all your breaking system will be out in the open for damage...

[Moded86R]

I have a set of ITP .190 wheels that are wider off-set.Basicly I think it is a standard ITP wheel with the valve stem flipped around where the inside of the wheel would normally be.They work great on my R with +2 Jd performance A-arms.The front end is also set up for them.

On my 300ex there is alot more bumpsteer and I have bent a tie-rod because of them.So I only run them on my R now.

[breaks-alot]

DO NOT DO THIS! Matt Bartosek #11 pro MX this year was one of my best ridding friends. So anyway he comes over one day and I have my wheels flipped around and Matt pretty much kicked my *** yelling at me for this. He said that it would absolutely snap off my spindles and ball joints. So I turned through the bike back on the stand and turned them back around. I guess if you’re not going to ride you bike and just take pictures of it you could turn them around. ;) I think I’ll take a pro racer-Baldwin employee’s word for it though.

Hope I Helped,
The Ben Gunter

[MXQUAD294]

I used to have the stock fronts on my X flipped around. But after replaceing both spindles, left caliper and rotor, gas tank, and bending my chrome LSR steering stem- it hit me that if I wasn't suck a cheap arse it probably would have been cheaper in the long run to buy +2 a-arms and get my shocks revalved. So thats what I did. Save your money, do it right, and be safe!!!

[raptor_02]

i guess i have been lucky :)

[DGR Designs]

ok ive been turned around. im keepin them stock i'll put the spacers on the rancher lol

[thelegendarycd]

good move. had my rims flipped on my x and the shocks sucked becaue they were so soft and the bumpsteer was crazy on the smallest bumps and rocks.

[hetrick425ex]

Ben, Matt was one of my good friends also and i miss him very much... He is right man, i spaz on people when i see stuff like that, its dangerous...trust me, IT HURTS.....

[TRX250XFIRE]

I have done it for 4 years with no problems

[raptor_02]

doesn't someone sell rims like that????? I'm pretty sure douglas or somebody does.

[QuadTrix6]

yea tons of bumpesteer i got bumpsteered righ into a tree with my 2:3 offsets and flipping will be even worse :mad:

[raptor_02]

well of course hitting a tree will cause a tierod to bend. I'm getting a steering stablelizer too so maybe that will make the bumpsteer = to stock where i have offset rims

[honda_250x_87]

honda didnt make my rims for flipping, so they stay stock. lol.. whats bumpsteer? can someone explain it?

it wont affect shocks. it wont mak them stiffer or harder.

[BaD_250ex]

I would also like to know what bumpersteer is!?!? And if you guys dont mind me asking who is Matt, and what happend to him, i have hear his man mentioned alot, and he seems important.

[lil400exman]

matt was a racer and he died recently practicing with i think jarhimah jones........... and bumpsteer is when yo hit and bump and quad steers in the direction of the bump and 250ex's you dont experince cause they realy dont go fast enough to have that happen 400ex's and up have the problem i mean all quads have the problem but the bigger hp quads have it the worst......i went through a fence like that...............:p

[Steve-o 400EX]

Originally posted by honda400exrider
if i where to order shocks, would it be +2 and my weight, or just add like 30 pounds to my weight?

No, tell them stock a arms because the mounts are not moving anywhere.

Originally posted by Jeff@QuadShop
It creats bump steer and will make your tierods bend easier....bad idea!
Also your steel inserts for the taper lug nuts will be on the wrong side and won't center the wheel.

he's right and your calipers are sticking out ready to get hit

[boogiechile]

Its about time to get some facts out on this thread. So I want to put in my cent and a half because I don't have 2 whole cents.

Many people have run reversed or heavy offset to the outside rims with no problems, but is not a good thing to do. I have done it myself and the bump steer is noticable. It will increase bump steer. It will not affect shock valving. It will put more stress on parts like tie rods spindles, bearings, ball joints, and puts some amount off additional stress on the upper a arm ( not the lower one).


Lets look at what happens and why.

It will not affect shock valving because the pivot points of the a arms are not changed. Therefore the motion(leverage) ratio stays the same. This means it will not bottom out any easier.

It will increase bump steer. bump steer is any thing that tries to steer the quad or transfer motion from the tire to you on bumps or through the motion of travel. When your suspension goes through its full range of travel the toe changes a good bit. This is one type of bump steer problem. Another type and what we are talking about here is the leverage the tire has against the handle bars. This increases with flipped or offset wheels because the Steering Axis Inclination (SAI) gets off. I have posted before somewhere describing what SAI is and I wont get into it deep now but basically the offset of the wheel has to put the center line off the tire and a line drawn between the upper and lower ball joint at the same intersection meeting at the ground. Stock rims do this and 4+1 rims are close. Offset rims move the wheel line out and the further out the worse. As the wheel moves out it gains leverage over the pivot (turning) of the ball joints and therefore ultimately against your bars. When hitting a bump the tire can snatch the bars against you much easier. Thats why so many people that use a steering damper love it. It you have 3+2 rims or flipped stock wheels you will love you damper even more because it is trying to compensate for the bump steer of a bad setup.

While the shock valving is not affected and it wont bottom easier, the added stress of the extra width is applied to the spindle, rim, ball joints and the upper a arm. fortunately in many cases these parts can handle the extra load but sometimes they can not and fail. If you go big you stand a better chance of failure.

well said and your absoltely right .. just curious.. how long that take you too write?

[boogiechile]

too long! I type with one finger!