what do you think???

[01boneless]

ok guys my quad leaks a small drip around the head gasket so i called the shop that done my top end rebuild less than 100 hours ago to see how much it would cost to install a new head gasket he said 80 bucks but he also said that the bolts may losened up and need re torked and he will do that for real cheap or even nothin since he rebuilt it. but what he dont know is when i had carb trobles a few weeks ago my buddies shop check the valves and timming and stuff. now im not the best with motors so my first question is should i get the gasket replaced or retork bolts? seconed is im purchesing a tork wrench soon cause ive had to borrow one and need one around my place. so i may try to retork the bolts my self so what bolts do i tork (diagram would be great) and how many ft pounds do they tork to? thanks guys

[CJM]

It could leak for many reasons, poor gasket seal or cheap gaskets, improperly torqued bolts, the head/cyl jug might not be flat/and or damaged.

Id chalk it up to two things:
1. Bad, torn, cheap gaskets. It happens, its the way it goes sometimes. I will only use cometic brand MLS (multilayered steel) viton coated gaskets. They seal superior to everything including hondas gaskets.

2. Improperly torqued bolts. Every 8mm headed 6mm diameter bolt on that quad gets 7 Foot-Pounds of torque. A torque wrench is nice, by now I do it by hand with a 1/4 drive ratchet and choke up on the head of it so I dont over torque them. I make them slightly snug and nothing more.

To torque them yourself is very easy. Make sure all of them are about the same tightness (just slightly tight is how I like to do it) to begin with. Then in a pattern such as a star or similar torque them once. Then go over them a second time in a pattern

[01boneless]

Originally posted by CJM
It could leak for many reasons, poor gasket seal or cheap gaskets, improperly torqued bolts, the head/cyl jug might not be flat/and or damaged.

Id chalk it up to two things:
1. Bad, torn, cheap gaskets. It happens, its the way it goes sometimes. I will only use cometic brand MLS (multilayered steel) viton coated gaskets. They seal superior to everything including hondas gaskets.

2. Improperly torqued bolts. Every 8mm headed 6mm diameter bolt on that quad gets 7 Foot-Pounds of torque. A torque wrench is nice, by now I do it by hand with a 1/4 drive ratchet and choke up on the head of it so I dont over torque them. I make them slightly snug and nothing more.

To torque them yourself is very easy. Make sure all of them are about the same tightness (just slightly tight is how I like to do it) to begin with. Then in a pattern such as a star or similar torque them once. Then go over them a second time in a pattern


ok cjm when putting on rings im sure you replace the gasket right? (not a engine person sorry) if the mechcanic said he replace the gaskets with cometic. ok what bolts do i need to tork? i mean its not a bad leak but it bothers me

[CJM]

When putting on new rings yes the installer would have had to remove the head and retorque those nuts (they go on 4 studs). If you remove the head then you just need to retorque it to the studs, those nuts are much larger and get 33 foot pounds you torque them in a cross pattern. -|- something like that, start on one side, move to the other, then go up and down.

That is the gasket between the head and the cylinder, the other seal will be the rocker cover (valve cover) and its a reusable gasket and then there is a gasket between the cylinder and the bottom end.

Im pretty sure thats how to do it, Im always better when I have the thing in front of me. Id suggest you buy or download a honda 400ex manual or a clymer one.

[trxPOWER]

Been there, done that. happened to me when i first built my 440. all i had to do is tear off the valve cover and cam and tighten the head bolts, they were so loose you could spin them with your fingers! so to tighten it you will have to take off the valve cover and take out the cam to get to all of the head bolts. if your talking about the head gasket (not the valve cover gasket) area it will probally solve your problem.

[01boneless]

Originally posted by CJM
When putting on new rings yes the installer would have had to remove the head and retorque those nuts (they go on 4 studs). If you remove the head then you just need to retorque it to the studs, those nuts are much larger and get 33 foot pounds you torque them in a cross pattern. -|- something like that, start on one side, move to the other, then go up and down.

That is the gasket between the head and the cylinder, the other seal will be the rocker cover (valve cover) and its a reusable gasket and then there is a gasket between the cylinder and the bottom end.

Im pretty sure thats how to do it, Im always better when I have the thing in front of me. Id suggest you buy or download a honda 400ex manual or a clymer one.

ok i definitly wont be removing the valve cover cause those bolts are heli coiled and will possibly strip so ill have them tork it down if that dont solve it new gasket !!!dang!!!!!! i wanted to ride this weekend will it hurt to ride with just a small drip of oil

[CJM]

Originally posted by 01boneless
ok i definitly wont be removing the valve cover cause those bolts are heli coiled and will possibly strip so ill have them tork it down if that dont solve it new gasket !!!dang!!!!!! i wanted to ride this weekend will it hurt to ride with just a small drip of oil

Why are they helicoiled? Thats not a good thing and possibly why its leaking oil. I tried to fix the mess the previous owner did with helicoil's, on a friends quad, lets just say he ended up with a new head down the road.

[trxPOWER]

if its dripping oil its likely blowing compression out the head gasket too. it will not run well in the mid to high rpms and might be leaning it out too! i suggest not to ride it if its leaking! if you have an exhaust you might not be able to hear the compression blowing out. it makes like a popping noise.

[trxPOWER]

Originally posted by CJM
Why are they helicoiled? Thats not a good thing and possibly why its leaking oil. I tried to fix the mess the previous owner did with helicoil's, on a friends quad, lets just say he ended up with a new head down the road.
nothing wroing with valve cover bolts being helicoiled. when you try to take them off after a long time the can be seized and you just have to break them off, drill them out and heli coil them.

[01boneless]

Originally posted by CJM
Why are they helicoiled? Thats not a good thing and possibly why its leaking oil. I tried to fix the mess the previous owner did with helicoil's, on a friends quad, lets just say he ended up with a new head down the road.

ill just have him fix it sounds like more than i want to prick with

[CJM]

Originally posted by trxPOWER
nothing wroing with valve cover bolts being helicoiled. when you try to take them off after a long time the can be seized and you just have to break them off, drill them out and heli coil them.

I have helicoiled many things before, the aluminum on these engines is VERY soft and helicoils just wont work very well. Just my opinion, but I been there and done that and they failed big time on many different things I helicoiled. One of the reasons is heat, these engines get super hot-aluminum and steel expand at different rates.

What happens if they just pull out if you take it apart more than once or tighten it the way it should be. Thats how I have 10mm exhaust stud. Stupid stud broke, I drilled it out, helicoiled it and it pulled out sometime later, did it 3x before I said F it and went up to a size I felt more comfortable with.

[trxPOWER]

yeah, you have way more experience than me with this stuff, im 15 haha. i dont see a problem with using them on valve cover bolts because theres not a lot of stress on them. but getting back on track, boneless you should just take it back to him, he obviously didnt put it back together right for you. i would not give him a dime for fixing it eather.

[CJM]

LOL...No worries man, I just have had these engines apart top to bottom more times than I can count. Its sad when you can pull the entire topend apart, take your time and be done in 1.5-2 hours or less if everything goes back together right.

Id take it back to the guy too.

[01boneless]

Originally posted by trxPOWER
yeah, you have way more experience than me with this stuff, im 15 haha. i dont see a problem with using them on valve cover bolts because theres not a lot of stress on them. but getting back on track, boneless you should just take it back to him, he obviously didnt put it back together right for you. i would not give him a dime for fixing it eather.

after i paid 450 bucks lol i think if he tighten them up it will fix it if not ill buy a new gasket

[trxPOWER]

theres no reason it should need a new gasket, unless he reused the old one when get put the topend back together haha.

[01boneless]

Originally posted by trxPOWER
theres no reason it should need a new gasket, unless he reused the old one when get put the topend back together haha.

ya thats prob right maybe loose bolts?

[CJM]

Cheap gaskets can leak, gasket could also be damaged-it is possible.

[01boneless]

!!!!update!!! removed the heat shiled under the tank and found that the vaulve cover was leaking too then i found a bolt in the valve cover that goes all the way to the head gasket so i tightened it up then i found a very loose one one the valve cover by the other leak and tightened it up too then cleaned all the oil off and started it up and so far no leaks.