6.0 PSD's?

[woodsracer144]

Well being most the people on here thing I like to " talk out my ***" this may be one of those moments but I'm gonna ask the question anyways.

how do you like them? I know they have a headgasket problem and the EGR's should get a delete kit other wise how are they?

I have a 86 F350 with a 5.9 cummins swapped in it, motor is a 91 I just installed a 99 PSD innercooler and that made a HUGE diff. when it first starts now its like its in the middle of winter. truck came from CA, ( im in WI) and over all is in good shape, the pass. side doors are a bit rusty but i dont really care. this truck is a CC LB 4wd and I get 20 mpg all day long Non innercooled ( just finished the cooler tonight and havnt drove it since)

I also have a 85 CC LB DRW 2wd CA truck rolling body that was also set up for a cummins and it has a MINT 95 box and the cab is really clean.


I found a 05 or 06 PSD at a local dealer, I get a "discount" through work but dont know if its just on new trucks or what, I'm planing on stopping in there tomorrow to see what the deal is on the truck and a price, If its not really high I'm thinking of selling my fummins and some other stuff and buying it.


I love the cummins motor but I hate working on the truck and dont want to deal with restoring it anymore. too much work and too much time. and I don't have the time.


thanks for the tips?

[CJM]

Couldnt give me one, junk!
Id keep what you got since you now have the best combo period. If you must trade up find a 7.3L PSD.

[Tommy Warren]

you could get APR head studs and delete the EGR but this should be a last resort. find somthing a little more reliable....ford only had this motor for a few years for a reason...they shouldn't have ever gotten rid of the 7.3. My buddy has a 84 ford ranger reg cab short box 4x4 with a 7.3 in it with 48" swamper boggers.....its the mud master unlimited power and you can't kill it

[blacknblue#2]

I agree with ford should have kept the 7.3 but calling the 05/06 6.0 junk is far fetched. I have an 06 with 73,000 on it and i cant complain one bit about it. The 03 and 04 had some trouble but they finally got it figured out in later years. Its like anything tho, they already had a bad name and ford had to try to save theirself. IMO they woulda never had any trouble out of them if they were left alone. These motors were rated about 100 horse less from international than what ford was gettin out of them. Then you go pouring a programmer and other stuff on them and your doubling the horsepower on the motors original rating. Like I said i love my 06. It had 150 horse program on it for 30,000 and i matured up and took it off. It still gets beat on and used like a truck should be and i have no trouble out of it. So if your looking to build a race truck out of a truck that was built to use then yeah you should prolly stay away from it. If the extent of your mods will be a small programmer and you can get the truck at a good price then buy it an enjoy

[woodsracer144]

I like the 05 06 front ends alot better than the 7.3's.

I also cant find a 7.3 that doesnt have a *** load of miles on it... I want this truck for a long time, I know they last 400K if they are taken care of but i dont want to have one with 300K on it already...

I know the 6.0's had their problems ( head gasket and the EGR) but other wise i havnt really heard any thing bad about them. I know the turbo is what made that motor what it is and i found out today that with out a turbo the cummins is a TURD! i blew a fitting off on the innercooling piping and she was a DOG!

Do i really need a new truck... no, not really the fummins i have will do what i want and then some... only reason I'm looking at a newer ford is cause i want to get something that is one part from this truck and another part from this truck

I use parts from 81?-86 f150-350 87-96 f150-f350 ( trans and T case) and motor parts from a 90-93? and then when you go to the auto parts store and say

" I need a clutch from a 87-97 F360 with bla bla bla and a pilot bearing from a 90-93 cummins and by the time your done the gut is rubbin his head and ask me " how many trucks are you working on..." when i said "one" he gave me the strangest look i've ever goten and he then tells me the bellhousings for the for and cummins are different so i could do that and they wont mount in that body... so then im there for another half hour explaining to them that places like "DeStroked" have adapter plates and stuff and then the guy is so lost i just wasted a half hour of my time that could have been spent on the drive home...


mostly comes down to a Pain to work on... and restore...

[Ruby Soho]

Every friend I have, and everyone I have ever spoken to about a 6.0 has had problems and hated them.

Not only are there headstud issues and egr problems, the HPO fails quite often, injectors go like its their job..

They are cool motors and can make pretty good power, but id rather be slower and more reliable with the 7.3 or a cummins.

I recommend getting something else, but thats just me..

edit: you can also put the 05-07 superduty front end on the 99-03 7.3s it bolts all right up.

[YOURADHERE]

Originally posted by Ruby Soho
Every friend I have, and everyone I have ever spoken to about a 6.0 has had problems and hated them.

Not only are there headstud issues and egr problems, the HPO fails quite often, injectors go like its their job..

They are cool motors and can make pretty good power, but id rather be slower and more reliable with the 7.3 or a cummins.

I recommend getting something else, but thats just me..

edit: you can also put the 05-07 superduty front end on the 99-03 7.3s it bolts all right up.


^^This....Im not a huge fan of the 6.0s. They seem to be hit or miss. Either you get a good one, or you don't. And even still it's not very common that a 6.0 will have the longevity and reliability of a 7.3.

And he's correct about eh front end swap. The grill fits with minor trimming or for the full swap the grill, bumper, and headlights bolt right up.

[400exrider707]

I dyno'd 466/772 on my 06 6.0. I run a race tune daily. I tow a camper in the summer, sleds in the winter, and daily drive it. I also run on WVO, so my diesel bill is virtually non existent. If you actually want to know something about the 6.0 feel free to ask. Most of the people commenting in this thread have probably never even sat in one. The misinformation is astounding about this motor.

Do they have issues? Of course they do. Do other diesels? Of course they do. 7.3's have their share of issues too.

The cool thing about 6.0's is I can tell you everything that will or could go wrong with it, and you can fix it before it happens. How many other trucks can you do that with?

Most of the issues I've had with my truck, were caused by me. Most of the issues you hear about headgaskets are from running hot tunes, and if they have issues again, it's because the fix was never done right, and it happens a LOT. EGR issues... everyone acts like it's a huge downfall of the 6.0. Fact is the 6.0 was one of the first diesels to even get an EGR setup. Now every truck that has one has issues with them. Don't even get me started with emissions controls on the 6.7 cummins...

As for HPO issues, no, not really. 05 had some batches of bad HPOP's. Injectors are usually caused by idiots who either run low fuel pressure, or don't change their oil often.

Don't go more than 5k on an oil change on a 6.0, no matter what oil you're using, and stay on top of fuel filter/oil filter changes religiously.

For a 6.0 you will want a fuel pressure gauge, engine coolant temp and engine oil temp gauges, and then if you tow REALLY heavy, get a trans temp, otherwise the 5R110 is one of the best trans in a diesel.

If you have any questions you want answered, just ask.

[CJM]

The problem with the 6.0 is repairs are costly when you have to remove the frontend to get to half of the engine.

Im sorry but I say you stick with what you got, your not gonna get 20mpg out of anything else.

[bbender85]

Originally posted by blacknblue#2
I agree with ford should have kept the 7.3 but calling the 05/06 6.0 junk is far fetched. ...The 03 and 04 had some trouble but they finally got it figured out in later years.

thank you for the most logical statement in this thread.

[witech]

http://www.cannondaleriders.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=25023&hl=powerstroke

[Outlaw930]

I have a 2004 f350 4x4 PSD 6.0 115,735miles and I have had to replace the wiring harness 1000$ with labor. FICM another 1000$. Hi pressure oil pump 800$ and last but not least head gaskets and egr 3500$ parts and labor. I got the arp headstuds with the black onyx head gaskets, egr delete, new oil cooler and cat delete straight pipe. Now that I have it all fixed it's an awesome truck I use it as my work truck in the outfields as a welder so it carries around 4000+lbs all say everyday on horrible roads.

If you plan on buying one don't push it hard by throwin a tumer on it and redlining it towing a 8000lb trailer up hills at 65+ until you have done a bullet proof kit.

[KXRida]

There are a lot of guys around her running the 6.0's but an honest half of them have required some of the previously stated repairs to have been made. I do like the 6.0's good running trucks when everything is upgraded to par, but I don't think I could ever trade in my 6.4 for a 6.0. With some basic add on's you have a pretty wild street truck that will do whatever you need it to. I drove the new 6.7's and wasn't really that impressed. In stock form they ran ok, but coming from a hotly tuned 6.4 of course it would feel slow.

[woodsracer144]

Well I don't think im gonna get the 6.0 I looked at first, its a white crew cab with chrome trim on the they were akin 27900 and I got it down to 26500 it has 74k on it... I was offered a 06 psd with 202k plus ten grand cas on my end for my fummins...

Gonna go look at another dealer tomorrow and see what I find...

[bens250ex]

listen to the people who actually own a 6.0 i have been around them alot and wouldn't pass up on a nice one. all trucks have problem and like stated above you already know what will go wrong with it so you can be prepared. I have a 7.3l good truck but dont look for big HP numbers without throwin your bank at it. Also if you find one with low miles and its still under warrenty most deals will delete and do studs for you as long as you pay for the studs and egr delete kit. so you can usually get it done without payin for labor if it is still under warranty.

[buck440]

6.0's got to go. there's no replacement for displacement. 7.3 yes indeed.

[KXRida]

Originally posted by buck440
6.0's got to go. there's no replacement for displacement. 7.3 yes indeed.

7.3's are good and reliable but are slowly becoming outdated in the diesel world. If you were going back in time 12v's is where I'd be.

ben250 what deals are you talking about being under warranty? Factory warranty would be voided on a truck with studs and an egr delete. I'd love to do a full egr delete on my 6.4 but for the time being I'm just gonna do a cooler delete and cfm pipe.

[brian76708]

Originally posted by KXRida
7.3's are good and reliable but are slowly becoming outdated in the diesel world. If you were going back in time 12v's is where I'd be.

ben250 what deals are you talking about being under warranty? Factory warranty would be voided on a truck with studs and an egr delete. I'd love to do a full egr delete on my 6.4 but for the time being I'm just gonna do a cooler delete and cfm pipe.

the problem with the 12v is the truck that comes around it. you basically have to plan on a trans if your buying used and its a automatic. I would rather a 7.3 for that fact alone.

and from the people i know with 6.0 it seems hit or miss. some have had great luck with them others have had many issues.

[KXRida]

I was saying for the sheer fact of building an older diesel I'd rather have a 12v. Tranny is a given in any built truck. If I had an unlimited budget the new 7.3 stroker kit from elite for my 6.4 would be down right nasty.

[Ruby Soho]

Unlimited budget huh.. Mechanical injected 7.3 would be my choice:D

1500hp to wheels would be pretty fun

[blacknblue#2]

Originally posted by Ruby Soho
Unlimited budget huh.. Mechanical injected 7.3 would be my choice:D

1500hp to wheels would be pretty fun

I had a mechanical injected 7.3....89 model, i think it was rated at 180 Horse :devil: :devil:. Back in those days diesels were built for hard use only. Amazing where they have went in the last 20 years

[Ruby Soho]

let me rephrase.. mechanical DIRECT injected 7.3 haha!

[400exrider707]

Originally posted by CJM
The problem with the 6.0 is repairs are costly when you have to remove the frontend to get to half of the engine.



^^^ Someone who clearly doesn't know what they're talking about. The cabs were designed to be pulled off to make repairs easier. A good tech can have the cab off of the truck in under an hour, the good ones are at 40 min or so. Then the entire engine is exposed... don't see how that is a downfall, but ok.


Originally posted by Outlaw930
I have a 2004 f350 4x4 PSD 6.0 115,735miles and I have had to replace the wiring harness 1000$ with labor. FICM another 1000$. Hi pressure oil pump 800$ and last but not least head gaskets and egr 3500$ parts and labor. I got the arp headstuds with the black onyx head gaskets, egr delete, new oil cooler and cat delete straight pipe. Now that I have it all fixed it's an awesome truck I use it as my work truck in the outfields as a welder so it carries around 4000+lbs all say everyday on horrible roads.

If you plan on buying one don't push it hard by throwin a tumer on it and redlining it towing a 8000lb trailer up hills at 65+ until you have done a bullet proof kit.

You will probably be doing it over again, but this time, use OEM gaskets. The black onyx are NOT the correct thickness. BTW, you can get a FICM a heck of a lot cheaper than that. I fix them myself. All you need is some patience, a soldering iron, some good leaded solder, and a few beers.


Originally posted by KXRida
7.3's are good and reliable but are slowly becoming outdated in the diesel world. If you were going back in time 12v's is where I'd be.

ben250 what deals are you talking about being under warranty? Factory warranty would be voided on a truck with studs and an egr delete. I'd love to do a full egr delete on my 6.4 but for the time being I'm just gonna do a cooler delete and cfm pipe.

I had ARP's put in under warranty at the dealership, so your statement isn't exactly right. It is all dependent on the dealer.

[CJM]

Originally posted by 400exrider707
^^^ Someone who clearly doesn't know what they're talking about. The cabs were designed to be pulled off to make repairs easier. A good tech can have the cab off of the truck in under an hour, the good ones are at 40 min or so. Then the entire engine is exposed... don't see how that is a downfall, but ok.


If thats what you want to think. Are you a tech? What do you think happens after 10 years of rust, dirt and grime get to all those fun bolts, wiring connectors, panels, etc.

Better yet wtf are you supposed to do with lifting the cab off when your doing it at home? Sure maybe some jack stands and 4x4s work but that still aint that easy. Not everyone goes to the dealer or a shop.

If the engine was so good they would still use it. Im sorry but the 7.3L is stupid simple, easy to repair and work on and hardly fails. International still uses it too in alot of vehicles. Why pay for head studs, maybe the dealer will cover it-maybe they wont-I dont feel like paying for it if it has to be done. The only reason why they stopped using it was emissions.

Sorry but you cant gimme a 6.0, its junk imho. Same reason why I wont own chrysler vehicle. Go ahead enjoy yours, when you have 500k and very few repairs lemme know. The old 7.3L PSD F450 tow truck we use at work now has 624k and has NEVER needed anything besides general maintenance items, injectors cleaned/rebuilt, glow plugs and a few cam sensors. It gets driven 100's of miles a day with no issues.

[bens250ex]

Originally posted by KXRida
7.3's are good and reliable but are slowly becoming outdated in the diesel world. If you were going back in time 12v's is where I'd be.

ben250 what deals are you talking about being under warranty? Factory warranty would be voided on a truck with studs and an egr delete. I'd love to do a full egr delete on my 6.4 but for the time being I'm just gonna do a cooler delete and cfm pipe.


i know of many 6.0's on the road today that got the egr delete and studs done labor free under warranty when the truck blew stock ones. all the customer had to do was buy the studs and delete and the dealer usually will install them. The 6.4 and the 6.0 are two totally diff trucks when it comes to this matter, the people working on these trucks knew it was the only way to keep them on the road.

[KXRida]

Originally posted by bens250ex
i know of many 6.0's on the road today that got the egr delete and studs done labor free under warranty when the truck blew stock ones. all the customer had to do was buy the studs and delete and the dealer usually will install them. The 6.4 and the 6.0 are two totally diff trucks when it comes to this matter, the people working on these trucks knew it was the only way to keep them on the road.

Your dealers must be different for sure. No dealer around here will put in any aftermarket part when warranty work is being done. All parts are replaced with OE. 6.4 and 6.0 have almost and identical bottom end, but from there up it's all different. IMO the major flow with them is all the egr bs and it's not very friendly to work on. Yes with a lift at your disposal a cab off can be done in an hour or so. Still doesn't sound like a fun adventure when all is said and done though. Sometime down the road the cab will be pulled for studs and a full egr delete, but that won't be for some time.

[woodsracer144]

i say lets not turn this in to a piss fight...

I found a truck. its a 04 CC lariet with 105K for 15750 obo. gonna look at it this coming weekend and then talk with the bank..

if the 6.0 fails me im gonna do a p pump cummins swap to it and i'll be done then...

i also thing im gonna keep the fummins i have as a beater truck cause the thing alread has been through hell...

[400exrider707]

Originally posted by CJM
If thats what you want to think. Are you a tech? What do you think happens after 10 years of rust, dirt and grime get to all those fun bolts, wiring connectors, panels, etc.

Better yet wtf are you supposed to do with lifting the cab off when your doing it at home? Sure maybe some jack stands and 4x4s work but that still aint that easy. Not everyone goes to the dealer or a shop.

If the engine was so good they would still use it. Im sorry but the 7.3L is stupid simple, easy to repair and work on and hardly fails. International still uses it too in alot of vehicles. Why pay for head studs, maybe the dealer will cover it-maybe they wont-I dont feel like paying for it if it has to be done. The only reason why they stopped using it was emissions.

Sorry but you cant gimme a 6.0, its junk imho. Same reason why I wont own chrysler vehicle. Go ahead enjoy yours, when you have 500k and very few repairs lemme know. The old 7.3L PSD F450 tow truck we use at work now has 624k and has NEVER needed anything besides general maintenance items, injectors cleaned/rebuilt, glow plugs and a few cam sensors. It gets driven 100's of miles a day with no issues.

Am I tech? Nope. I'm glad not to be, I haven't met a single technician in my area who knew what the heck they were doing. Most of my repairs under warranty are repeat repairs because the technicians can never seem to get anything done right the first time. The last time my truck went in for warranty work, it sat there for 7 weeks and came back out with the same issue it went in for. (trans issue).

I'm not arguing against the 7.3's reliability, a 444 cubic inch motor with no emissions equipment barely getting 200 horse to the tires is sure to last a long time. Stupid simple? It's not really any more complicated than a 6.0 either. They use the same basic fuel system, still 8 cylinders and a single turbo.

As for cab on or off, I was simply arguing your statement about having to take half of the front end off to do repairs, which simply wasn't true. The cab is designed to come off, there are only 4 bolts holding it to the frame. You're worried about 10 years of rust, but that same issue would apply if you "had to take half the front end off" too. Which still isn't true, you can do any repair on that motor with the cab on too, same for a 6.4 despite what most will say. 6.4 is a major PITA to do anything cab on, but it CAN be done.

If the engine was SOO good, no they still wouldn't use it. Tighter emissions controls keep companies from re-using the same motor. Same with the 7.3, Ford doesn't use that anymore because it couldn't meet anything emissions wise. A 6.0 has 95% cleaner emissions than a 7.3.

Again, not arguing the 7.3 isn't reliable, we know it is. But don't act like a 7.3 never has issues. Every diesel motor out there has some sort of issues. They all have their weaknesses. I'm just here to say the 6.0 isn't as bad as some of you are making it out to be.

As for paying for studs or egr deletes, I knew going into it I would have to do it, and I'm ok with that. I'd have to buy studs for a 7.3 too if I was pushing the same horsepower, so that doesn't really hold up as an argument. A stock 6.0 bottom end will hold up to more than double the horsepower of a stock 7.3 bottom end.

It all just boils down to what you want to do with the truck.

$15k for an 04 lariat is an OK price, but not a steal by any means. It's a fair price IF the truck is in excellent shape. I'd try and get an 05-07 myself, just because they updated SO much in 05.

Get an oasis report done at a dealer on it so you can see all the warranty work that has been done.

[400exrider707]

Originally posted by KXRida
Your dealers must be different for sure. No dealer around here will put in any aftermarket part when warranty work is being done. All parts are replaced with OE. 6.4 and 6.0 have almost and identical bottom end, but from there up it's all different. IMO the major flow with them is all the egr bs and it's not very friendly to work on. Yes with a lift at your disposal a cab off can be done in an hour or so. Still doesn't sound like a fun adventure when all is said and done though. Sometime down the road the cab will be pulled for studs and a full egr delete, but that won't be for some time.

6.4's have a much tighter time getting anything done at the dealer, since the on board computer will hold a LOT more info and let a reallly good tech or a Ford engineer know exactly what is happening with the truck. Have you got the latest flash from Ford for your 6.4?

What part of the bottom end of a 6.4 and 6.0 are the same? The 6.0 and 6.4 heads are the same though. The real big differences are an improved EGR cooler system, a better/larger fuel system on the 6.4 (also more expensive to fix/repair), and turbo setup.

[400exrider707]

woodsrider, just go on a powerstroke forum and ask. You're not going to get a lot of good info here.

If you have the funds/means to do a p-pump cummins, then you really don't have much to worry about anyways do you? I'd go commonrail myself!!! :D

[woodsracer144]

Well the only reason I'd do a swap is cause a friend works at a shop and all the vans have them and they go through therm like crazy so I'd get one cheap, build it up buy the adapter plate splice in the fuel shut off work in the ac and heat and done.... it would have to be about 4 years from now though...

Going to look at the 04 friday...

[400exrider707]

Originally posted by woodsracer144
Well the only reason I'd do a swap is cause a friend works at a shop and all the vans have them and they go through therm like crazy so I'd get one cheap, build it up buy the adapter plate splice in the fuel shut off work in the ac and heat and done.... it would have to be about 4 years from now though...

Going to look at the 04 friday...

Drive it through it's paces, do some good runs up hill and listen for the tea kettle whistle. Make sure the coolant bottle doesn't have white residue anywhere on it, look under the bottom of it really good. It will help tremendously if you can look at it when the motor is cold and listen to a cold start. Also a good time to see if any of the injectors are suffering from stiction. Got a link to the truck or something? Any pics?

[woodsracer144]

pm sent.

[JForestZ34]

Originally posted by woodsracer144


I know the 6.0's had their problems ( head gasket and the EGR) but other wise i havnt really heard any thing bad about them. I know the turbo is what made that motor what it is and i found out today that with out a turbo the cummins is a TURD! i blew a fitting off on the innercooling piping and she was a DOG!...


Most diesels are dogs without turbos. Lol


James

[CJM]

400exrider707, with all due respect you have a LOT to learn dude. Your not a tech thats ok, but have you wrenched before-I mean on say a diesel engine? However since your not a tech and havent worked on them then I cannot take your opinion for anything other than what you have researched, experienced thru your shop/dealer and whatever background you have. Work on some of them yourself and find out. Till then I probably have more time under a cars than you have been driving. Just cause techs at a dealer cant get it right doesnt mean anything-techs at a dealer are often horrible. Certified yes, but absolutely horrible in most cases. The last place I want any vehicle if I was a consumer is at the dealer-even under warranty-they dont know much at most dealers. A diesel shop is the place to go if you have a diesel period.

As for horsepower, it isnt everything, torque is whats needed in a truck and it must hit at a certain RPM for it to properly work and move the vehicle. Horsepower will get ya speed, but really how many drive a truck 80mph? yea more hp means faster up to speed, but like I said certain rpm it hits you dont need it. The 7.3L has plenty of power as does the very old inline 6 ford used for years. Just as a comparison and to prove a point: a 5.0 V8 and an inline 6 matched up, the inline 6 might not be as fast off the line but it will out pull that pos 5.0 by a mile. Thats what a truck does, tow, haul, carry weight and such. Its not some thing you throw a couch in one time or some bikes or such. I drove a TD 97 F450 flatbed for years (as I described earlier) it NEVER gave me any real issues. And by flatbed I mean tow truck, the thing hardly ever shut off, it idled day and night, it towed things that truck was never designed for, pulled out cars and was worked to the hilt. It is still in use and hasnt failed, although it looks like hell and as I said earlier has many, many, many, many harsh miles. When I see a 6.0 that hasnt had any real work to it other than the basic maintinance with over 300k I'll buy one, till then nope. theres a distinct reason a 95 PSD F350 with 150k sells for almost 10k and a 6.0 super duty sells for 15 and has less than 100k.

That being said, the 6.0 is a turd and always will be. It was discontinued for many reasons Im sure. However like I said, the old 7.3L is still in use and has been for a LONG time. Buses, trucks, fords, you name it international used it for over 20 years. Ford used the 6.0 for a WAY shorter time, like 4 years??. Emissions killed the 7.3L, otherwise it would still be in use. The 6.0 had so many bought back trucks it was insane, almost as bad as when GM tried to make gas engines into diesels in the early 80's.

Thats my stance at least after wrenching for umpteen years.

[brian76708]

here is a informational post i found on another forum on 6.0



I'm fairly tired of all the mis-information regarding the 6.0L diesel. Here is my input. I was a 7.3L guy through and through. I've had 6 of them, all with minor issues and only one with a major issue (dropped a valve). None of them were "trouble free" like people state. Every engine needs repairs, pure and simple. The plus side to the 7.3L, is most of those repairs are easy enough for a guy with good mechanical skill to do in his driveway. Here is why I now own a 6.0L diesel and not a 7.3L. I was on the hunt for a nice, clean 7.3L. The market for them is absolutely insane. In my opinion, they are way overpriced for what they are. A 2002 or 2003 rust free 7.3L crew cab, long bed, 4x4 with 150K miles will fetch about 16-17K dollars. That's ridiculous. I have driven a 2005+ coil sprung superduty many times and the ride is so much better than the <2003 superduty that it would make it tough to go back to the "old truck". Not to mention, the coil sprung front end makes the turning radius far better than the leaf springs. This is critical for towing. Keep in mind I won't compare a 2003-2004 6.0L in this post. 2003-2004 6.0L had a considerable amount of issues, combined with the leaf sprung front suspensions, and older front facia, do not make a very ideal combination. So, I started reading about the 6.0L. There are 5 major complaints. Lets start off by saying the worst thing for a 6.0L is daily driving it empty 10-15 miles to work. If that is your daily routine for the truck, don't buy a 6.0L. If you are looking for a diesel that you can drive like you stole it and tow a ton, you'll like the 6.0L. For the record, I am pulling 21K (combined truck and trailer) with my truck and it is smother than my old 7.3L pulling 15K combined. EGR plugging- The EGR cooler gets built up with carbon and doesn't flow correctly. It can also get plugged with sand from the coolant (see fix below). When it plugs, you run the risk of blowing head gaskets. If you tow a lot or push the truck, the EGR will remain cleaner than if the truck idles a lot. Again, the truck likes to be pushed hard. Many retailers have developed EGR delete kits, or bulletproof EGR coolers. Oil/Coolant coolers – The oil is tied into the coolant system; the coolant helps cool the oil. There is a problem with the 6.0L having sand in the casting from the factory. The sand ends up blocking the oil cooler and oil temps spike out of control. This causes oil leaks, turbo issues and even coolant related issues due to lack of flow. The solution is fairly simple - Put a DIY coolant filter in place. A full kit is about $120, but some people claim to build them yourself for about $50 and after 5K-10K miles (and 3-4 filter changes) the sand will be 100% removed. Turbo – The 6.0L has a variable vain turbo, unlike the 7.3L. A variable vane turbo can change the angle of the blades to maximize boost/efficiency. If the truck isn't pushed hard, the vanes won't travel their full path very often. If that happens, carbon gets built up in certain places between each vane. Once the turbo gets carbon built up inside it, the vanes can become stuck and you run the risk of overboost, and blowing the headgaskets. This seems to be most likely on 03-04 engines. Again, if you push the truck hard or tow with it, the turbo vanes will travel full sweeps to keep the turbo clean. If you drive the truck light, you have a higher chance of building up carbon. Ford eventually put in a "turbo dither" calibration that forced the vanes to travel a full path on shutdown to prevent carbon build-up. Turbo failures on post 2005 trucks are fairly rare (or the same rate as a 7.3L). If you have a 2003-2004 turbo, drive the truck like you stole it and you won't have this issue. Headstuds – the head bolts aren't actually an issue themselves, the issue is when other parts fail (EGR and turbo) and stress the head bolts. The ARP headstuds should be put in to place just to protect the heads incase other parts fail. Injectors- People complain about the 03 and 04 injectors failing. The injectors cost the same as 7.3L injectors, and once they are replaced, are fairly trouble free. Keep the oil changed and you should be fine. Again, 2005+ trucks tend to have less issues. So… aftermarket companies like Sinister Diesel have developed kits that address a lot of these issues. http://www.mkmcustoms.com/60powerstrokesolution.aspx They will take care of the EGR, oil cooler, and headstuds. The kit is ~$1400 ($1800 with a tune, which can put you at 400hp and turns off the EGR OBD system to turn off your check engine light) and a shop will charge about 2500-3000 to install it (some cheaper). So back to why I bought a 6.0L…. It is still very easy to find rust free (or close) 2005-2007 trucks with the 6.0L, and in a lot of cases, they are the same price as a rust free 2002 or 2003 7.3L. You can put $4400 into repairs/upgrades into a 2005-2007 6.0L and have a very reliable 400 hp, 675+ ft lb diesel that is quiet, comfortable, turns great, rides nice, doesn't pollute, etc. The 6.0L intake/exhaust/auto trans can support 500hp, so no worries there. Stock injectors can support 400 hp. Or you can buy a rust free 7.3L and put $1500 into intake, exhaust, gauges and a tune and you might be able to squeeze out 300 hp/ 575 ft lbs from it. Anything more than that and you need injectors, oil pump, turbo, and a $3500 trans. In my opinion, the 6.0L is one of the few engines that if you know what you are getting into prior to purchasing one, and you convince yourself you need to put $4500 into it right away (most people struggle with that), then you will be very happy with your purchase. The 2003-2004 6.0L made a very rocky road for the 2005-2007 6.0L trucks, which have far less issues.

[400exrider707]

Originally posted by CJM
400exrider707, with all due respect you have a LOT to learn dude. Your not a tech thats ok, but have you wrenched before-I mean on say a diesel engine? However since your not a tech and havent worked on them then I cannot take your opinion for anything other than what you have researched, experienced thru your shop/dealer and whatever background you have. Work on some of them yourself and find out. Till then I probably have more time under a cars than you have been driving. Just cause techs at a dealer cant get it right doesnt mean anything-techs at a dealer are often horrible. Certified yes, but absolutely horrible in most cases. The last place I want any vehicle if I was a consumer is at the dealer-even under warranty-they dont know much at most dealers. A diesel shop is the place to go if you have a diesel period.

As for horsepower, it isnt everything, torque is whats needed in a truck and it must hit at a certain RPM for it to properly work and move the vehicle. Horsepower will get ya speed, but really how many drive a truck 80mph? yea more hp means faster up to speed, but like I said certain rpm it hits you dont need it. The 7.3L has plenty of power as does the very old inline 6 ford used for years. Just as a comparison and to prove a point: a 5.0 V8 and an inline 6 matched up, the inline 6 might not be as fast off the line but it will out pull that pos 5.0 by a mile. Thats what a truck does, tow, haul, carry weight and such. Its not some thing you throw a couch in one time or some bikes or such. I drove a TD 97 F450 flatbed for years (as I described earlier) it NEVER gave me any real issues. And by flatbed I mean tow truck, the thing hardly ever shut off, it idled day and night, it towed things that truck was never designed for, pulled out cars and was worked to the hilt. It is still in use and hasnt failed, although it looks like hell and as I said earlier has many, many, many, many harsh miles. When I see a 6.0 that hasnt had any real work to it other than the basic maintinance with over 300k I'll buy one, till then nope. theres a distinct reason a 95 PSD F350 with 150k sells for almost 10k and a 6.0 super duty sells for 15 and has less than 100k.

That being said, the 6.0 is a turd and always will be. It was discontinued for many reasons Im sure. However like I said, the old 7.3L is still in use and has been for a LONG time. Buses, trucks, fords, you name it international used it for over 20 years. Ford used the 6.0 for a WAY shorter time, like 4 years??. Emissions killed the 7.3L, otherwise it would still be in use. The 6.0 had so many bought back trucks it was insane, almost as bad as when GM tried to make gas engines into diesels in the early 80's.

Thats my stance at least after wrenching for umpteen years.

Have I wrenched on a diesel before? Is this a serious question? Even though my truck is still under warranty, I do all of the work on it myself. I'm also a moderator on a few diesel forums. I've been around for a little while...

I completely agree 100% about the techs at the dealerships, thus why I do my own work now. I've had many heated debates with "certified master diesel technicians" who don't know their a from a hole in the ground.

I've also completely designed/fabricated my own WVO filtration setup and have installed numerous vegistroke/vegirams, so I know a thing or two about diesels.

Working on cars your whole life merits nothing in my book, because most of the diesel techs I speak to all come from gas background and know nothing about diesels. (not saying this is your case, but clearly we don't know each other beyond our conversation here, so no offense meant).

Most of the things you've said about the 6.0 have some merit, but did you just call a 6.0 a turd? That's laughable. When a 7.3 can outrun a 6.0 down the strip, then call it a turd.

Just for fun... I have a good buddy who lives about 15 min south of me, has an 05 6.0, crew cab short bed with 12" of lift on 40's, running stock tranny (original) and has 250k miles on it, with stock headgaskets and oil cooler still in it. Clean oasis report. I have several other friends with 05+ 6.0's pushing close to the 200k mile mark as well.

They really are not as bad as people make them out to be. The worst thing about a 6.0 is usually the idiot behind the wheel, or the idiot turning the wrenches on it. I'm not saying they don't have their downfalls. 4 bolts per cylinder just plain sucks, and the emissions systems were poorly designed, but again, there is fixes for it, IF someone wants to put the time/money in. Like you said, you can pick a 6.0 up cheaper than a 7.3 with 2x as many miles and 5 years older. Why not do it? Throw the parts it needs at it and have a solid, fun truck.

Just my 2 cents man.



Brian76708 - good post.

[Ruby Soho]

The 6.0 would have been great if navistar didnt rush it.

Like you said though with all the fixes the 6.0s make great numbers and they do put up to abuse.

However I will still argue that the 5r1100 is just as bad as the 4r100.. They do definitely hold a little more power but once you put any real work into the truck its useless.. Really wish ford had the allison haha

[CJM]

When I say turd I mean the engine itself is poorly designed, not speed. I dont care how fast the truck is, I drove a cat diesel kodiak flatbed tow truck that barely over 300hp but it had 600 foot pounds of torque. Slow it was but gearing made up for that. Like I said earlier, speed isnt everything-so what you can do a quarter in say 15 seconds in a 6.0 vs 17 in a 7.3L?

As for the 4R100, its nothing more than an updated E4OD which was never the greatest. Allison is hand in hand with GMC tho sadly. Ford shoulda stuck to using the ZF stick in most applications, its much stronger than any auto they ever used, reason why they didnt use it-people cant drive stick-thats not what the demographic wants.

[bbender85]

Originally posted by CJM
... reason why they didnt use it-people cant drive stick-thats not what the demographic wants.

and thats a damn shame.


<-- this demographic wants a super duty with an allison behind a cummins in it. :D

[CJM]

Originally posted by bbender85
and thats a damn shame.


<-- this demographic wants a super duty with an allison behind a cummins in it. :D

They do that no one would buy anything else lol.

You cant even get a stick on anything but the stripped down work models these days in most vehicles.

[400exrider707]

Originally posted by CJM
When I say turd I mean the engine itself is poorly designed, not speed. I dont care how fast the truck is, I drove a cat diesel kodiak flatbed tow truck that barely over 300hp but it had 600 foot pounds of torque. Slow it was but gearing made up for that. Like I said earlier, speed isnt everything-so what you can do a quarter in say 15 seconds in a 6.0 vs 17 in a 7.3L?

As for the 4R100, its nothing more than an updated E4OD which was never the greatest. Allison is hand in hand with GMC tho sadly. Ford shoulda stuck to using the ZF stick in most applications, its much stronger than any auto they ever used, reason why they didnt use it-people cant drive stick-thats not what the demographic wants.

A 6.0 with nothing more than a custom tune will run 13.8-14.2 all day long depending on cab/bed config. To put a 7.3 there, you'd need quite a bit of work, including a trans. I misunderstood what you meant by turd then, my bad. When I think turd, I think underpowered. A 1/4 mile is one of the most accurate ways of measuring power, more so than a dyno in most cases. It is often what the diesel world uses to measure power, since dynos on turbo vehicles can be so widely swayed.

You're right about the 4R. you can actually swap parts to the E4od to conver it to a 4R. Autos have just come so far in the last few years, it's not worth it to put a manual in anymore.


Originally posted by Ruby Soho
The 6.0 would have been great if navistar didnt rush it.

Like you said though with all the fixes the 6.0s make great numbers and they do put up to abuse.

However I will still argue that the 5r1100 is just as bad as the 4r100.. They do definitely hold a little more power but once you put any real work into the truck its useless.. Really wish ford had the allison haha

The 5R is worlds above the 4R. The 5R is completely electronically controlled 6 speed trans. Yes, 6 speeds. It only uses 5 at any given time though, it's really quite the trans. A little more power? They seem to hold up just fine behind a 6.4 making just shy of 600 at the wheels. Tuning is absolutely KEY here though. A crappy tuner will destroy one in seconds. Allisons can NOT be tuned, thus why they will crap out with even a moderate tune loaded. Once they're built, great trans. Stock for stock trans, you're not touching a 5R on a truck running hot tunes or anything of the sort.


Originally posted by CJM
They do that no one would buy anything else lol.

You cant even get a stick on anything but the stripped down work models these days in most vehicles.

You can NOT get stick at all from Chevy/GMC or Ford at all anymore in the diesel pickups. Dodge still has stick, but it will be phased out in the next year or two.

[CJM]

Isnt it a damn shame tho-no stick? The F450 and higher can still be had with one I think as the ZF 6 speed is still in use

Driving a stick for years in many vehicles I much prefer it over an automatic unless its a well built auto. You can spend to have the thing worked right to never fail tho-but its costly. Really the gears and a stick shift can make up for any short comings a vehicle might have. Hell back in the day they used gas engines, 2 speed rears and stick shifts in most medium trucks and irt worked quite well.

[400exrider707]

Originally posted by CJM
Isnt it a damn shame tho-no stick? The F450 and higher can still be had with one I think as the ZF 6 speed is still in use

Driving a stick for years in many vehicles I much prefer it over an automatic unless its a well built auto. You can spend to have the thing worked right to never fail tho-but its costly. Really the gears and a stick shift can make up for any short comings a vehicle might have. Hell back in the day they used gas engines, 2 speed rears and stick shifts in most medium trucks and irt worked quite well.

It's all preference I suppose. There certainly are times I'd like to have manual, but for my truck being my play truck, auto is the way to go. Having a torque converter is nice when you need to spool turbos and then leave RIGHT NOW, when you need to. They are stupid expensive to build to that level, and even full built trans are no longer holding up to the high build trucks. I just don't think a converter can be built to hold the HP some of these trucks are making now, added with the extra weight of a heavy truck, it's tranny destruction!

Did you (or anyone for that matter) follow the diesel power challenge this year? I think out of 10 trucks, less than 5 even finished. The two highest HP trucks ate trans on the first or second day of competition, and some of them ate a few trans. I know Dmitri's d-max was even running a full built "duraflight", and that didn't last long at all... and he wasn't even running close to his max power. Shone patel's 1000+ rwhp 6.4 was running a full built Elite trans, and that didn't last long either, but again, it's 8000lbs trying to run 10 sec 1/4 miles... not sure a manual would hold up either!

As for the F450, you could order a manual trans ZF6 for 08-10 trucks (250/350/450), but the 2011 6.7's ALL use 6R140's. They can be manually shifted on the shift stalk, same as the allisons.


Stock for stock though a 5R110 comes with a triple disk converter from the factory, and can be electronically tuned using an SCT, since it can access the TCM and physically TUNE the trans! Can't say that about the allison...

So for the average joe looking to buy a truck and throw a tuner on and go beat on it... sure the 6.0 might have some other issues, but those issues are still cheaper (if you do the work yourself) than building a trans for a d-max or derge.

[hondaREX]

Just my two cents. Im a fleet mechanic with (6) 6.0, and previously had (6) 7.3s. They are ambulances so i have seen it all. I dont do much engine work on them but have a good relatonship with 2 very good diesel mechanic that know there ford diesels and work on ours. The 6.0 is a powerhouse, runs like a raped ape. The 7.3 is the better engine but will never be back.

Idling kills the 6.0. And the ambulances have an auto high idle but they would barely use it. The ambulances idle too much and it has cost FORD thousands, ambulances have got an extended warranty on most of the engine components due to a nation wide lawsuit. EGR valves were common early on, i was replacing them on the side of the road for some time. That was due to the EGR coolers leaking thus clogging up the EGR valve. Not too many head gaskets but have had a couple. Oil pumps, oil coolers and egr coolers were a huge problem for us. I was scooping handfuls of MUCK out of the intake manifold where the EGR is. If you see a 6.0 that has sat for awhile not used, beware of a near future turbo replacement. We got a demo ambulance and my tech said "ill see that truck in under 6 months", no lie, 6 months and i blew it pulling onto the highway!!! The vane freezes up he said. Also, look for oil in the coolant degas bottle. Any signs of scum or oil in the degas bottle, it either has had a oil cooler in the past or it needs one. Any rubber in the coolant system that the oil hits needs to be replaced, ie. radiator, hoses, as the oil will make the rubber swell and deteriorate.

As for the repairs, they are actually not that bad to work on. The cab does not have to be lifted, thats for the 6.4. The 6.0 can be fixed in your driveway, other than head gaskets maybe. I have dual alternators in them all and i can tell you that that is the worst on ambulances that have all that electrical stuff and monkeys behind the wheel!! But then again thats the extent of repairs that i do because of the extended warranty.

My advice is drive it like its a rental!!! It loves WOT. I know thats not the best for MPG but if you have a 6.0, your problem using it. Its a great work truck, loves towing and running and being shut off. Idling kills. If i had a need for one, id get one.

[BakerRacing40]

we had an 02 f-350 7.3 six speed that i'd kill to get back but it was traded for a 04 f-350 6.0 six speed and it hasn't had horrible issues but has had a few grand tossed in its directions and i gotta say its gutless... if you drive a little harder and keep in the higher boost it will get rolling but i don't like to drive it hard constantly. still have it.
next is the 07 f-350 6.0 auto, it has a few more upgrades to try to help it. the auto seems to be better geared to help get some power down but still doesn't put out as much as i think it should.. even though i think its due for some shop time, when first started it rattles and clanks and sputters and coughs and it makes you wonder if the crank is going to fall on the ground or if it'll buff out.. lol
also have acquired an 04 f-450 with the 6.0 and the auto trans... it went down and had to have everything new from the block up. 10,000 dollars later kind realized should have done it my self and gotten a whole long block for it and went from there... ya i got screwed, hard.. but it is really really low geared, pulls pretty hard once you start getting the boost up, and then her legs run out a little over 80...

and a side note still have a 95 f-350 7.3 5 speed with 230.xxx on it. spent the last 100,000 or so with a heavy flatbed/welding bed/oil field bed on it. not always treated very nice.. she still runs alright, uses a little oil but nothing to awful... and then some one wrecked it and the bed was swapped over to a 01 dodge and i've been slowly putting it back together..

[woodsracer144]

I've prolly posted this before, but the only reason i'm looking at buying a diesel now is so that way when im all done with school i can have a nice low mile pre B/S motor, we all know the 6L had some issues but i can get them all fixxed for 1300, its a kit like bulletproof but they call it something else and they just use the OE oil cooler, and it still gets a EGR delete.

I found two trucks, one was a 99 cc lb for 145 with 100K and the other is a 04 with 150k and i know the guy that owns it in a round about way and they want 14 for it, and im sure i could talk them down more yet.

My mom and dad have been looking for trucks and they found a 03 reg. cab lb, with a 5.4 gas (f250) and i said i wasnt crazy over it, its a REALLY clean truck with 27K on but my foots in past the boards trying to get her to go, so dad got it as his new work truck cause his in about totally dead...

right now im really serious about the 04, its clean for the most part, the rear fender wells are just starting to bubble/ flake. and I'm gonna fix that right away.

[KXRida]

Any feedback from your experience on the 6.4's besides do the egr delete and stud them?

[brian76708]

Originally posted by woodsracer144
I've prolly posted this before, but the only reason i'm looking at buying a diesel now is so that way when im all done with school i can have a nice low mile pre B/S motor, we all know the 6L had some issues but i can get them all fixxed for 1300, its a kit like bulletproof but they call it something else and they just use the OE oil cooler, and it still gets a EGR delete.

I found two trucks, one was a 99 cc lb for 145 with 100K and the other is a 04 with 150k and i know the guy that owns it in a round about way and they want 14 for it, and im sure i could talk them down more yet.

My mom and dad have been looking for trucks and they found a 03 reg. cab lb, with a 5.4 gas (f250) and i said i wasnt crazy over it, its a REALLY clean truck with 27K on but my foots in past the boards trying to get her to go, so dad got it as his new work truck cause his in about totally dead...

right now im really serious about the 04, its clean for the most part, the rear fender wells are just starting to bubble/ flake. and I'm gonna fix that right away.

i would stick to a 7.3 if you can't afford a 06 + 6L