Wilkin need your expert help

[troybilt]

How do I setup a stock stator to recharge a battery? Have you tried this before?

[DnB_racing]

Originally posted by troybilt
How do I setup a stock stator to recharge a battery? Have you tried this before? Troy, until Eric is available, here is a decent link to explain the general Idea, im sure Wilkins can explain it in more understandable and relevant terms but at least you can get a rough estimation of whats needed. http://www.bcae1.com/charging.htm

[rsss396]

full wave bridge rectifier, radio shack has them cheap
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B003LR757A/ref=asc_df_B003LR757A1583988?smid=AZRTOP7JJB0T8&tag=dealtimemp2-892-20&linkCode=asn&creative=395105&creativeASIN=B003LR757A

you still need the voltage regulator from honda

the rectifier will have 4 terminals +,-, and 2 "sine wave"

from the regulator take the wire and install it on one of the "sine wave" terminals, take the other "sine wave" terminal to ground.

Then the others are your + and -, land those to your battery

[wilkin250r]

Let's make sure to cover ALL the areas. What are you using this battery for? Yes, you could do it with a bridge rectifier IF it was it's own isolated system. But if you actually plan to hook this battery up to anything on your quad, you need to pay specific attention to your grounds, because your battery cannot use the same ground as your AC power (chassis ground).

So, you have two choices, either make sure your battery and related components are completely isolated from your AC system and chassis ground, or you convert your entire system over to DC (which is actually easier than you might think).

Now, here is where it gets a slightly interesting, it actually IS possible to use DC ground and AC ground as the same ground. Any of the other electrical guys care to take a guess how?

[troybilt]

Well, the battery is going to be used for my MSD programmable ignition. Using a Full Spectrum battery, http://www.fullspectrumpower.com/

Weighs less than a lb.




Originally posted by wilkin250r
Let's make sure to cover ALL the areas. What are you using this battery for? Yes, you could do it with a bridge rectifier IF it was it's own isolated system. But if you actually plan to hook this battery up to anything on your quad, you need to pay specific attention to your grounds, because your battery cannot use the same ground as your AC power (chassis ground).

So, you have two choices, either make sure your battery and related components are completely isolated from your AC system and chassis ground, or you convert your entire system over to DC (which is actually easier than you might think).

Now, here is where it gets a slightly interesting, it actually IS possible to use DC ground and AC ground as the same ground. Any of the other electrical guys care to take a guess how?

[rsss396]

Originally posted by wilkin250r
Let's make sure to cover ALL the areas. What are you using this battery for? Yes, you could do it with a bridge rectifier IF it was it's own isolated system. But if you actually plan to hook this battery up to anything on your quad, you need to pay specific attention to your grounds, because your battery cannot use the same ground as your AC power (chassis ground).

So, you have two choices, either make sure your battery and related components are completely isolated from your AC system and chassis ground, or you convert your entire system over to DC (which is actually easier than you might think).

Now, here is where it gets a slightly interesting, it actually IS possible to use DC ground and AC ground as the same ground. Any of the other electrical guys care to take a guess how?

My guess would to use a heavy duty Diode inline on the ground that goes to the negative side of the battery.

But tell you the truth I have not seen that done on snowmobiles from the factory with batterys.
Arctic cat does not use a full wave rectifier only a inline diode for half wave rectification.

My snomoquad when I had setup for the wife with electric start never had a separated dc and ac grounds and that was how Arctic cat showed there schematics.

I had kind of questioned that but never had any issues.

[DnB_racing]

Originally posted by rsss396
My guess would to use a heavy duty Diode inline on the ground that goes to the negative side of the battery.

But tell you the truth I have not seen that done on snowmobiles from the factory with batterys.
Arctic cat does not use a full wave rectifier only a inline diode for half wave rectification.

My snomoquad when I had setup for the wife with electric start never had a separated dc and ac grounds and that was how Arctic cat showed there schematics.

I had kind of questioned that but never had any issues. ya I agree with rsss... some sort of filtering and a half wave rectifier.. and I would think on these quads without anything sensitive you could almost get away without much filtering if any,

or maybe just use a cap inline with the ac ground so only ac will pass to ground and the dc will not??

[wilkin250r]

Indeed, a half-wave rectifier is the key. The reason you can't use the same ground with a full-wave is because it basically shorts out a diode. The positive cycle of the AC wave will still behave normally, but the negative portion becomes a dead short straight to ground.

A half-wave rectifier doesn't have that same problem, but it also reduces the charging current by half. So it's really easy and convenient if you're only using a small amount of electricity from the battery, you wouldn't need full efficiency from your charging system.

To find out which method we would want to use, find out the amp-hour rating of the battery, and then find out how long the battery typically lasts in use before it needs recharging. We'll see if we can get away with a half-wave rectifier, or if we want to get more complex with it.

[wilkin250r]

I just now saw the thread, is this your Saber? We're not taking the cheap route on that guy...

Probably the best solution for you, to retain the best compromise between simplicity, cost, functionality, AND STYLE (because it is indeed important) is a complete DC conversion. I'll walk you through the steps of floating the ground on your stator, get a 400EX regulator/rectifier, and you are good to go!

[troybilt]

Yes it is... However, I stripped the MSD ignition off today, and I want to run a full MSD setup on my MX bike (Elsinore), to give it that extra spark energy. That's why I want to run a Full Spectrum battery and be able to charge that. This ignition is awesome, Here are some pics of the software that I can use to change maps etc... I also want to run a TMX 38 with throttle position sensor to control my ignition maps, which this new MSD setup has provisions for.

Pics:
http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i260/robltc/Saber%20500/DSCN1815.jpg
http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i260/robltc/Saber%20500/DSCN1814.jpg
http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i260/robltc/Saber%20500/DSCN1805.jpg

[troybilt]

The Saber has plenty of power with the CR ignition.... haha...

[rsss396]

Originally posted by wilkin250r
Indeed, a half-wave rectifier is the key. The reason you can't use the same ground with a full-wave is because it basically shorts out a diode. The positive cycle of the AC wave will still behave normally, but the negative portion becomes a dead short straight to ground.

A half-wave rectifier doesn't have that same problem, but it also reduces the charging current by half. So it's really easy and convenient if you're only using a small amount of electricity from the battery, you wouldn't need full efficiency from your charging system.

To find out which method we would want to use, find out the amp-hour rating of the battery, and then find out how long the battery typically lasts in use before it needs recharging. We'll see if we can get away with a half-wave rectifier, or if we want to get more complex with it.

thanks wilken, now that you point that out it makes sence.

troy, is that the curves loaded in the msd box on your screen.

Those curves or really lack of curve reminds me of the old LRD cdi that had a straight timing curve.
If that saber is setup and reliable with that much timing on topend then you will be able to max out the timing on that CR igntion.
Rotated all the way clockwise is about +4 degrees

[troybilt]

No, this is just 2 of the curves stored in the folder for example. I reallly have a lot of learning to do but this type thing is right up my alley...!