Head cover bolts

[luvmyex]

Ok i snapped one bolt putting it back togeather.It snapped before 6 ft-lbs THe manual says 17 ft-lbs.I couldnt get anywhere near that much.
1. what do they need to be torqued to?
2. I ordered all new ones.Should i replace all of em?
3.Is the metal gasket under the head cover reuseable?Or do i need a new one there too?

[gojk]

i reused mine. I will finally get to try it this weekend. Very few gasket kits include one so I would guess that it is reusable.

[jchevy]

The smaller bolts do not have a torque spec given in my clymer manual. That 17ft spec is for that larger bold in the center or the head cover.

I found out the hard way too.

I didnt want to spend $56 on 12 bolts from the dealer so went to the hardware store and got the mall for $6 plus an ez out to get out the ones i broke off.

Which one did you break. I broke one of the long ones and had to tear the motor apart to get the broken end out of the jug. This also lead to me over torqueing a cylinder head bold and pulling the stud out of the cylinder which is my present problem right now.

[speedjunkie]

Yes it is reusable. I have made a post on this before and it seems to be an ongoing problem. You only torque the SINGLE bolt in the center of the head cover to 17 ftlbs!!!!! The others are just 6mm bolts that you snug up. The Honda service manual says...
Install the cylinder head cover onto the cylinder head. Install the 8mm and 6mm cylinder head cover bolts and tighten them in a crisscross pattern in 2 or 3 steps.

TORQUE: 8 mm bolt: 17 ftlbs

Best I can tell, you only torque the ONE 8 mm bolt! Just tighten the 6 mm bolts the same way you tighten the oil filter cover.

In my oppinion the Clymer book can be confusing, Buy a Honda book

[luvmyex]

Someone had told me not to try 17lbs on the 8mm.The one in the center is a 12mm and i went to 17 on it.And i was only trying to get 6lbs on all the others.But the bolt was black there were 2-3 others that way also.So they may have got weak from the heat.And of course i broke one of the longest ones.I think it may go all the way into the lower case.So i have to take the whole thing back apart. :grr now i have to f#*@ with that oil ring again.I had the hardest time with that.Any tricks other than buying a ring wrench?

[jchevy]

The longest bolts only go into the top of the jug. You can get them out without pulling the jug off, but i took mine off just to be safe. Go to the hardware store and get an ez-out.

The head on the large center bolt is a 12mm. When it says 8mm bolt it is refering to the actual size of the bolt, not the head on it.

I also thought it was talking about the size of the head.

[luvmyex]

Well i ordered all new bolts yesterday and im glad i did.I broke another one off today taking it out.Once i got em all out i noticed 3-4 of em were streched or narrower in the threads.Got the two broke ones out without any problems.Drilled and easyout.Thats a great little tool.But i cant belive 12 tiny bolts cost $41.00.thats crazy!One place wanted $73 i said "your mighty proud of your sh*# arent ya" You were right jchevy only had to take off the head.Put a magnet right next to the drill bit and it picked up every tiny sliver.

[Castor-426ex]

i am about to tear into my engine to do a 416...should I worry about breakage of bolts?
i ordered a manual on cd from ebay..i hope it has the proper torque specs...
what bolts really need replacing?
and wheres the best place with the best price to get them?

[Castor-426ex]

this is a good thread im bumpin it up

help me

[Evan]

Someone said the 17ft lb was a misprint, its supposed to be 7 ft lbs while the center is something like 12-13 ft lb. Either way after finding out the hardway like most people did, I learned just to use a stubby(short) ratchet on them and snug em down, only use ur wrist to tighten them, not ur whole body. This will keep them tight enough, they dont need to be very tight, all they are doing is keeping oil from getting out. I belive i replaced all of mine from service honda, it wasnt that expensive. I reuse the valve cover gasket 2 times then get a new one. Ive built my motor more times than I care to remember, if u have more questions, just ask.

[luvmyex]

did you put any gasket sealer on the head cover gasket Evan? the bolt in the center will tourqe to 17lbs with no problem.The two bolts i did get to 6lbs were barley leaking oil out,but nowhere else.but i may have spilled a little before putting the cover back on im not sure.
The bolts im replacing are the small one around the edge of the head cover.12 in all. the rest of em are pretty beefy and should hold up.

[Doibugu2]

It would be great if we had a true Honda mech here. I actually can't believe we don't. :rolleyes:

This seems to be a repeated problem, from the sounds of things, I guess you have to replace them everytime. Why are they $60? Couldn't you replace them with another type of bolt if they are not holding much pressure?:confused2 Does not make a lot of sense.

[roostu]

Originally posted by Doibugu2
It would be great if we had a true Honda mech here. I actually can't believe we don't. :rolleyes:

This seems to be a repeated problem, from the sounds of things, I guess you have to replace them everytime. Why are they $60? Couldn't you replace them with another type of bolt if they are not holding much pressure?:confused2 Does not make a lot of sense.

You won't have to replace the bolts if you tighten them down correctly.

~Roost-U

[BigThumper33]

Add me to the list of bolt breakers! :blah

I've ran it with the broken bolt for a few months, and now that I have it all apart down to the frame for gusseting and powdercoating, I'm glad I came across this thread. I'll go down to the auto shop and pick up an ez out.

[Gusto]

Add me to the list of bolt breakers! I snapped one of my long ones off just by hand tightening....remember just to "snug" the perimeter bolts. If you try to torque them or really tighten them up by hand they will bend or stretch.

Also, the honda service manual reads just like the clymers. Don't read into it when your doing your torques. Follow the instructions as written. This seems to be the problem when installing the Head...aka Rocker arm cover.

[Castor-426ex]

Originally posted by roostu
You won't have to replace the bolts if you tighten them down correctly.

~Roost-U

dont be a jackass and mess up a good thread.. people have service manuals and are still having this problem so you think its just them? nope it seems to be a reoccuring problem

this is why there is no good info on this site anymore because people have to slip their smart *** comments in em

i have smart *** stuff to say too but when i post it...chances are its past due for someone to post it because the thread sucks

this one doesnt

so shut your hole and know your role

[roostu]

Originally posted by Castor-400ex
dont be a jackass and mess up a good thread.. people have service manuals and are still having this problem so you think its just them? nope it seems to be a reoccuring problem

this is why there is no good info on this site anymore because people have to slip their smart *** comments in em

i have smart *** stuff to say too but when i post it...chances are its past due for someone to post it because the thread sucks

this one doesnt

so shut your hole and know your role

Ok man you need to just cool down, that was not a jackass comment, in fact I have torn down a 400ex 3 times and followed the manual every time. I have not had any bolts break off, Am I reading a different manual???? I think not so my comment was to the effect that you need to read carefully what the manual is telling you (it is a little confusing) but works when followed. So you need to stop trying to be a tough guy calling people jackasses. You need to look beyond your own immaturity and look closely before replying.

~Roost-U

[Castor-426ex]

if that wasnt a smart *** comment i dont know what is

if you would have explained your meaning when you posted that it may not have come across as some kind of smart *** comment....looks like a lot of people are breaking bolts not just on the engine...i have and so have others...so how bout you add some help to the thread instead of just posting the classic one liner of "You wont have to replace the bolts if you tighten them down correctly" i dont care how many times youve been in your motor..no 2 400ex motors are going to dis assemble and re assemble in the same way..And hondas are prone to weak bolts

[roostu]

Ok, be careful when tightening you head cover bolts, the manual has the correct information but is confusing (read it carefully)

That is adding help, but on a side note it's BS that no 2 400ex engines disassemble the same. If that's the case then why have manuals that cover ALL 400ex's?
And Honda is not prone to weak bolts, the bolts provided by Honda will break if installed improperly or over tightened. Let’s end the criticism here with this post and stick with the facts. If you want to flame me post a new thread so this one does not get more diluted with non issue related ****.


~Roost-U

[Dune Surfer]

If you pulled the studs out you can get oversized studs installed. I took mine to a local machine shop. I bought the studs at Rocky ridge racing for $65.

[Chef]

The long one in the right rear corner of my 400 has been snapped off for about 6 months I would think. They always break because the head and cylinder get so hot it weakens them. Its not really a big deal. All motors should assemble and disassemble the same, but they never do.

[Evan]

Actually, the manual is wrong, roostu, u should not be torqing 6mm bolts to 17 ft lbs. Common sense should prevail when working on an engine, but I, like proably everyone else was relying on the manual and didnt stop and think about what I was doing, I should not have been torqing to 17ft lbs on that small of a bolt. When you sit back and think about it, its common sense, but thats something we rarely do, we are concetrating on going by the manual or excited we are gettin our motor together.

Doiboig, read, they do not break every time, use a stubby ratchet and you will be fine, or just torque them to 7 ft lbs either way they dont break unless u just way overtighten them.

luvmyex, no i didnt use sealer, it proably will look like some oil leaked around the edges for a lil bit, but it will wear off.

[luvmyex]

Mine snapped before 6lbs.So yes i think they do become weak from the heat.The two that broke were black.And i was taking the second one out when it broke.Im not even going to tourqe the new ones.Just till they feel good and tight with a 1/4 inch drive socket.

[roostu]

Originally posted by X-Rider
Actually, the manual is wrong, roostu, u should not be torqing 6mm bolts to 17 ft lbs. Common sense should prevail when working on an engine, but I, like proably everyone else was relying on the manual and didnt stop and think about what I was doing, I should not have been torqing to 17ft lbs on that small of a bolt. When you sit back and think about it, its common sense, but thats something we rarely do, we are concetrating on going by the manual or excited we are gettin our motor together.

Doiboig, read, they do not break every time, use a stubby ratchet and you will be fine, or just torque them to 7 ft lbs either way they dont break unless u just way overtighten them.

luvmyex, no i didnt use sealer, it proably will look like some oil leaked around the edges for a lil bit, but it will wear off.

The intelegence level is low in this thread.......

X-Rider READ before you open your mouth. Look at the manual and see were it says "Torque 8mm bolts to 17 ft lbs"....Yea thats no missprint, and oh yea it does NOT mention the 6mm bolts.

~Roost-U

[speedjunkie]

X-Rider, You seem to be the most ignorant person on this entire web site. Have you looked at the post by Roost-u? Nowhere in the Honda service manual does it say that you should torque the 6mm bolts. You are correct, it is common sense, something you obviosly lack! My advice to you, or anybody else working on their Honda (or any other atv/motorcycle/anything) would be to follow a factory service manual if they are not 100% sure what they are doing. Let me ask you, or anybody else willing to comment, how tight do you tighten the oil filter cover bolts? They are also 6mm. If you would like to get technical, on page 1-11 of the honda service manual it gives correct torque specs for every size bolt found on that bike. I have an idea, lets take a poll and see how many people can properly read a service manual.

For those of you that dont know, when ANY manual gives a bolt size they are talking about the diameter of the actual bolt, NOT the head size.

X-Rider,CHEF440EX, and Castor-400ex, all 400ex motors are machined to very specific tolorences. Which means that any two motors will go together the same (within specs given by the service manual).

It is not a bad idea to replace the bolts if you feel that they have been over torqued at one time, better safe than sorry.

Seems to me that this forum does get filled with useless garbage quite often. The way to solve this problem is to only post if you have acurate and helpfull information.
Castor-400ex ,you my friend, are the Jackass!

If any body has any questions or comments please feel free to ask! Thats why this forum was created.

Speedjunkie.....ASE certified mechanic

[luvmyex]

lets just all fight about it! No need for name calling or saying your this or that.

[Castor-426ex]

true..lets get back on track..

please


what I meant by no two 400 motors disassemble the same is that stuff breaks prematurely...you could take my motor apart and boom...break every bolt in it...but take yours apart and everything comes apart good....it doesnt matter if you do it properly...you cant control the structure of aluminum and steel

This thread is a good one....i actually need a lot of this info for my upcoming "Build"

I need to know what to expect when i dis assemble and re assemble my motor

I took a chance on a cd manual off ebay...i hope its pretty well detailed

we all ride red..or ride for that matter...so lets act like adults here and get this topic rolling in the right direction again...

[Evan]

Ill say......someone got their panties in a wad over nothing.

Originally posted by speedjunkie
Let me ask you, or anybody else willing to comment, how tight do you tighten the oil filter cover bolts? They are also 6mm. If you would like to get technical, on page 1-11 of the honda service manual it gives correct torque specs for every size bolt found on that bike.

not to get off topic but what are u supposed to tighten those bolts at. i think its 7 but i dont have a service manual and want to make sure

[luvmyex]

I belive the only one you need to tourqe is the larger one in the center of the head.At 17lbs. The rest of em just do it by feel.I had my wrench set for 6lbs on all the bolts aroung the edge and still broke one and another taking it back apart.Plus several were stretched.And if you have many that are black when you take them out,I would order new ones.

[Newbie400ex]

It seems to me that every dam bolt on this thing is made of lead. They are very soft. I work on cars,trucks, and machinery all day long and ALL of the fasteners on the 400 ex are crap. The heads of the phillips screws suck. (yes I use the right size phillips). The bolts that hold the headers in are too short and are bent due to a curve in the flange ring.:huh Most of the bolts go back in hard for some reason even if you put the same bolt in the same hole! Even the spark plug comes out harder than it should. When I had the stock silencer , all of the bolts on the spark arrestor broke off just trying to remove them. I think honda should have used harder bolts for a sport atv that is going to see rough use. I think I would even replace the footpeg bolts with grade8's just to be sure.. What if they broke? (ow) So this guy may have overtourqed those small bolts but they still suck.

[speedjunkie]

Newbie, I agree 100%, the phillips head screws on these bikes are the biggest pieces of **** I have ever seen. I too would use grade 8 bolts on the foot pegs. That would be very bad:(