Installing an LED Tailight [Archive]

dtek01

05-18-2011, 03:18 PM

The brake switch i would use connects in between the power wire on the brake light portion of ther LED bar. So there is no ground being connected.

So basically when pressed bridges the power to the brake portion of the led. I was going to connect this to the white/yellow wire on the quad. This seems to be constant power even if the light switch is off. Question is if it is regulated power.

The running light portion of the LED I was going to run to the brown wire coming out of the factory hadlebar light switch assembly like the factory taillamp does. So when the lights are switched on the tail lamp lights up as the factory one does.

So the LED bar I have has 3 wires.

1 is the taillamp
1 is the Brake lamp
1 is the ground

I was going to connect this way to the quad.

Tailamp to the Brown switched power wire coming out of the factory handlebar switches.

Brake portion to a brake switch connected between to the white/yellow power wire in the factory wire harness.

Ground connected to the factory green wire in the wiring harness and just like the factory tailamp was.

Does this all sound correct and will I need the rectifier still somewhere in here? If so do I need to float any grounds?

Uns

05-18-2011, 07:57 PM

You basically have two options: Keep the DC isolated and keep AC as chassis ground, or isolate(float) the AC and use DC on the chassis ground.

For the wattage used in that tail light bar, you could probably just pick up a basic 1N4004 diode and slap it inline with a 10mF cap in parallel with the lights and call it good(assuming a 5w ish draw from the LEDs). It's been a while since I did any actual analog stuff, and these numbers are off the top of my head as examples, so use at own risk sort of thing.

Of course, the proper way to do this is to float the AC and use the chassis as DC. This will require you to either float the AC headlamps with direct connections into the AC system, or use of a DC headlamp system, such as LED bars or HID headlamps.

Back when I ran with lights, I bought a couple HID lights and ran them on the shock towers, with a LED taillight and a sealed lead acid battery. I keep thinking about going back to lights, but this time I would surely go with lighter LED light bars and a far lighter audio style capacitor instead.

Floating the AC is amazingly simple, especially if you eliminate the poor AC headlamp and tail light at the same time. You do have to pull your flywheel, but after that it is as simple as de-soldering one wire and resoldering it to a wire that runs to the regulator/rectifier box. I could not get the wire to pass through the stock harness, so I simply hot glued the hole shut, and never did get any water in the flywheel area.

Ill attach my "schematics". Basically, if you get the reg/rec and a capacitor of some kind, this is how it would break down: If you do float the ac and keep the AC headlights, you will need to retain the stock regulator and tap the two yellow wires for head light "ground" and headlight "hot". If you don't float the AC ground, then you would need to tap the rec/reg to the single accessory power line and the chassis ground, and ensure that the DC powered tail lamp makes both its power and ground lines all the way back to the reg/rec. This setup should also have a cap of some kind to combat flicker, and that cap would need to also make the complete circuit, isolated from chassis, from power of reg/rec to ground of reg/rec.

If you use DC only in your accessories, just use my circuit as shown. I just used two button reset 20amp breakers to isolate the battery in case of short. If you used HID, I would suggest running these large amp fuses and some 16ga wire so that a lower rated breaker wouldn't pop(HIDs have huge current draw in the first few mS of startup). The stock alternator would be lucky to push 100 watts, and as such, if you don't run HIDs you could easily get away with 10amp breakers and 18ga or 8amp and 20ga wire.

So the TL:DR. Do it right. Get a decent rated Reg/rec(ricky stator carried a good one that I used), a capacitor of some type, and I would either float the ground and pick up a cheap LED headlight strip or float the DC on the reg/rec, cap, and taillight and you would have all the tools to go to a decent headlight system when you decided to float the ground.

So for example:

http://www.rickystator.com/pages/Single_Phase_Rectifier_Regulator.html
http://www.amazon.com/Rockford-Fosgate-RFC1-Farad-Capacitor/dp/B0012BWMKW/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1305769628&sr=1-1
http://www.electerm.com/breaker.html
http://www.google.com/products/catalog?hl=en&safe=off&q=offroad+led+light&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=shop&cid=14503464015096512192&sa=X&ei=p3jUTfDqIZH0tgPx6ICvCQ&ved=0CC8Q8wIwAQ#

Just as examples.

Uns

05-18-2011, 08:01 PM

And here is the schematic of the ignition system, i.e. the parts you need to keep to make it run.

wilkin250r

05-18-2011, 08:21 PM

The headlight will work on DC, if you decided to go that route. You wouldn't need to float an AC power source to your headlights.

DnB_racing

05-18-2011, 08:35 PM

Originally posted by Uns
You basically have two options: Keep the DC isolated and keep AC as chassis ground, or isolate(float) the AC and use DC on the chassis ground.

For the wattage used in that tail light bar, you could probably just pick up a basic 1N4004 diode and slap it inline with a 10mF cap in parallel with the lights and call it good(assuming a 5w ish draw from the LEDs). It's been a while since I did any actual analog stuff, and these numbers are off the top of my head as examples, so use at own risk sort of thing.

Of course, the proper way to do this is to float the AC and use the chassis as DC. This will require you to either float the AC headlamps with direct connections into the AC system, or use of a DC headlamp system, such as LED bars or HID headlamps.

Back when I ran with lights, I bought a couple HID lights and ran them on the shock towers, with a LED taillight and a sealed lead acid battery. I keep thinking about going back to lights, but this time I would surely go with lighter LED light bars and a far lighter audio style capacitor instead.

Floating the AC is amazingly simple, especially if you eliminate the poor AC headlamp and tail light at the same time. You do have to pull your flywheel, but after that it is as simple as de-soldering one wire and resoldering it to a wire that runs to the regulator/rectifier box. I could not get the wire to pass through the stock harness, so I simply hot glued the hole shut, and never did get any water in the flywheel area.

Ill attach my "schematics". Basically, if you get the reg/rec and a capacitor of some kind, this is how it would break down: If you do float the ac and keep the AC headlights, you will need to retain the stock regulator and tap the two yellow wires for head light "ground" and headlight "hot". If you don't float the AC ground, then you would need to tap the rec/reg to the single accessory power line and the chassis ground, and ensure that the DC powered tail lamp makes both its power and ground lines all the way back to the reg/rec. This setup should also have a cap of some kind to combat flicker, and that cap would need to also make the complete circuit, isolated from chassis, from power of reg/rec to ground of reg/rec.

If you use DC only in your accessories, just use my circuit as shown. I just used two button reset 20amp breakers to isolate the battery in case of short. If you used HID, I would suggest running these large amp fuses and some 16ga wire so that a lower rated breaker wouldn't pop(HIDs have huge current draw in the first few mS of startup). The stock alternator would be lucky to push 100 watts, and as such, if you don't run HIDs you could easily get away with 10amp breakers and 18ga or 8amp and 20ga wire.

So the TL:DR. Do it right. Get a decent rated Reg/rec(ricky stator carried a good one that I used), a capacitor of some type, and I would either float the ground and pick up a cheap LED headlight strip or float the DC on the reg/rec, cap, and taillight and you would have all the tools to go to a decent headlight system when you decided to float the ground.

So for example:

http://www.rickystator.com/pages/Single_Phase_Rectifier_Regulator.html
http://www.amazon.com/Rockford-Fosgate-RFC1-Farad-Capacitor/dp/B0012BWMKW/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1305769628&sr=1-1
http://www.electerm.com/breaker.html
http://www.google.com/products/catalog?hl=en&safe=off&q=offroad+led+light&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=shop&cid=14503464015096512192&sa=X&ei=p3jUTfDqIZH0tgPx6ICvCQ&ved=0CC8Q8wIwAQ#

Just as examples. wouldn't you want to float the ground keep the head lights ac and use the stock light switch to switch the head lights and a relay for the rectified dc circuit?to keep them isolated from each other?

Uns

05-18-2011, 10:07 PM

Wilkin: You are right, and I completely missed that. It is a basic automotive incandescent headlight, producing light from DC or AC.

DnB: Yea those are the kinds of details I miss sometimes. One switch for ac and dc circuit. So yea, if he wants to keep headlights AC, he would need an AC relay to trigger the tail light, or a standard relay with the main switch being the DC switch and the relay triggering the headlights. This added complexity is just another reason to do it right the first time, make it future ready, float the ground and make everything DC.

dtek01

05-18-2011, 10:19 PM

Lots of great info...Thanks.

Ok say I want to just convert the headlight system to DC.

Do I have to run a battery? I would like to not have to for sure. Righ now the plans are for the LED tailamp I got and maybe an LED driving light like the one you posted or the Vison X solstace ones.

What would I have to do to convert the entire headlamp/tailamp setup to DC and still use the factory handlebar switch to turn them on? All without battery if possible.

Funny thing is my cousin has the Vision X solstace lights and they work great and he never converted anything. They are only DC as well.

Im am sorry for being so ignorant. I am for sure learning somnething. I am new to this AC stuff.

Uns

05-18-2011, 11:05 PM

A battery is not necessary to convert to DC. It is a great bonus to converting though. Without one, your headlight and tail light will do the same flicker they do at idle now, unless you can get the power draw way down with LEDs. I'm not sure you can get enough light from LEDs at a draw low enough to eliminate flicker at idle.

If your friend is running them on any type of newer bike, I would imagine it was a DC system. If he is running a 250r also, the led's will drive on AC, it's just not great for their longetivity depending on voltage levels, and also they would only be running at most half power compared to the same rectified DC voltage levels. And, I would imagine, have a horrible flicker at idle due to the waste of the other half of the sine wave.

So yea, basically just use that first "schematic" I posted. If you are not going to use a battery, I would toss the breakers.

In the configuration it sounds like you want, here would be the steps to take.

1. Float the ground. I am attaching pictures of the two AC wires that are floating in yellow. One AC wire is already(obviously) there, and I just replaced it because of its age and appearance. The AC wire that is soldered to the ground tab is the wire next to the green wire in the attached pics. I don't remember why I ran that ground point on that green line out now. Probably paranoia lol.

2. Run these two AC lines straight into the (typically) yellow AC lines of a decent regulator/rectifier combo.

3. Just hook the black line of the reg/rec to a chassis ground point somewhere.

4. Just hook the old white line to the (typically) red positive line of the reg/rec.

5. (optional) Disconnect and toss old AC regulator. I don't think leaving this would hurt anything, but it is at minimum pointless to have now.

6. Hook positive connection of DC devices to the old AC connection(new DC connection) and ground wire to chassis.

And thats it. I would seriously suggest getting a decent soldering iron, a little bit of practice(or a nerdy friend), 4 hours of your time and a 6 pack of beer(4 pack of deadlift?) and rewire everything, the way you want it, and heat shrink with dialectric grease junctions(none of that electrical tape ****). Of course this step is dependent on the current condition of your wiring harness.

Uns

05-18-2011, 11:08 PM

And here is a picture of the wire that was not connected to the chassis, that is the other half of the AC floating pair. I believe it was originally white.

And that first picture looks kind of tricky, but no, that solder joint from the stator to the yellow wire is not touching the stator assembly. It clears it by a solid quarter inch, and just looks frighteningly close to touching lol.

wilkin250r

05-19-2011, 10:39 AM

I've never done it, but I can't find any problems with the instructions he posted.

In a nutshell, the stator produces AC electricity, the "hot" line is the yellow headed out of the stator, the "ground" is soldered to the stator itself, which then travels through the various nuts and bolts to become chassis ground.

Remember, you CANNOT use the same ground for AC and DC when you use a full bridge rectifier.

If you desolder that connection at the stator, you have effectively removed the chassis ground and isolated your AC power signal. Now you can take that ground wire out of the stator and connect it to your rectifier, and since you no longer have chassis ground for AC, you can use the chassis for the ground for your DC power.

Great thing is, you can put that DC power straight into your existing wiring harness (the yellow/white wire), and all your electronics, switches, and lighting will work as normal.

wilkin250r

05-19-2011, 10:51 AM

The only drawback is the conversion from AC to DC creates a choppy DC power. A regular incandescent light won't really be affected, because they work on heat and the filament won't cool off and reduce light output that fast.

But LED lighting will react much faster, you probably would indeed see some flickering. That's why some people put batteries in their system, because the battery will act as a filter and smooth out the choppy DC power into a clean, consistent DC signal.

You can also do the same thing with a decent size capacitor, and it will be much smaller, lighter, and most often cheaper.

I haven't covered regulator/rectifier combos, I plan to, but I gotta run right now.

dtek01

05-19-2011, 11:03 AM

OK so I think I got it. Judging from the pictures that were posted.

I included pics of my stator.

So in the first pic I would desolder the circled wire from the stator and add a wire to it that would run up to the ground wire on the regulator/rectifier. There is 2 locations soldered so the reason I circled one to make sure that is the correct one.

In the second pic shows the factory white and yellow wire that runs up to the factory regulator. I do not mess with this wire at the stator but up top I connect it to the + of the rectifier..correct?

The third pic just shows the wires coming out of the stator that hook to the factory wire harness.

dtek01

05-19-2011, 11:04 AM

This wire I would assume is the + and would leave this alone and run it to the + on the new rectifier.

dtek01

05-19-2011, 11:07 AM

These are the wires out of the stator. The white/yellow is the + wire that is in the previous pic. This is the wire I would connect to the positive wire on the new rectifier before the handlebar switches or after?

So this mod will not affect any engine related electronics? I am not sure what the other wires are for but I assume computer and coil.

DnB_racing

05-19-2011, 11:51 AM

Originally posted by dtek01
These are the wires out of the stator. The white/yellow is the + wire that is in the previous pic. This is the wire I would connect to the positive wire on the new rectifier before the handlebar switches or after?

So this mod will not affect any engine related electronics? I am not sure what the other wires are for but I assume computer and coil. the blue/yellow and the green/white wires are for the IPG, and the red/black goes to cdi, and the white goes to the auxiliary circuits (lights)

Uns

05-19-2011, 01:57 PM

You pretty much got it dtek, except for some picky terminology. AC lines don't really have a positive and negative, and the rectifiers you will get will have two generic inputs for two AC lines. It does not make a difference which line gets put into which on the rectifier. It only matters which line on the DC size(ground to chassis, hot to devices.) Basically, the two stator wires go into the two yellow wires in this pic:
http://www.rickystator.com/pages/Single_Phase_Rectifier_Regulator.html

And DnB hit the nail on the head with wires. The L/Y and G/W are for that other thing dangling from your harness, and the R/B is the ignition power.

And wilkin is right about flicker. I'm not great with AC and stator theory, but I THINK that at higher RPM's the frequency of the AC signal increases, and the human eye won't be able to distinguish the separate pulses. Like we both said though, grabbing an audio capacitor should get rid of any strobing you see and help keep the lights bright for a while during idle.

And yea, I think you got it, but here is basically exactly how you have to hook up the reg/rec. The wire on the left of the alternator is your new wire ran out from that one on the ground tab now. That plus white, into the two AC inputs on the reg/rec. Ground to chassis the black wire as shown, and hook the red wire into the rest of the white wire that you will have to clip. If you want to add a battery/cap, it simply sits between that positive wire out of the reg/rec and chassis ground, ideally with a breaker/fuse or two in there for safety sake.

wilkin250r

05-19-2011, 04:22 PM

You're close. Let me cover reg/rect combos, and then I'll chime in on what you just posted.

Your stator by itself produces about 22 volts at idle, and upwards of 30-50 volts as the engine revs up. This is why your regulator is so important, it pulls that voltage down to 15V, because 30V would fry every bit of electronics you have.

Regulator rectifier combos are great, because they do two things all in one convenient, easy package. First it converts your AC power to DC power, and then regulates it down to around 13~14V, which is actually ideal for a 12V system (because even your 12V battery is about 13.5V at full charge). It's still a choppy DC signal, like I said in my earlier post, but the battery fixes that and turns it into a smooth DC signal.

wilkin250r

05-19-2011, 04:25 PM

AC stands for Alternating Current, as you probably already know. So it doesn't have a "positive" and "negative", because they alternate. So it's generally easiest to think of them as a "hot" and a "neutral" because that's how residential home wiring is designated, (although that still doesn't even matter), but for the sake of explanation and tutorial, that's how we'll refer to them.

We don't call it "hot" and "ground" because your ground already has a specific meaning, it is your chassis ground.

That white/yellow wire coming out of the stator is your "hot" wire. The connection you desoldered on the stator is your "neutral". You're going to run both of these lines to the AC inputs on your rectifier, and it actually doesn't matter which one. The "+" and the "-" are your resulting DC signal coming out.

And you've probably already figured out, your "+" goes into your wiring harness as your positive power, and the "-" gets connected to your frame as chassis ground.

wilkin250r

05-19-2011, 04:36 PM

Now I've said it a few times, rectified AC power ends up being a choppy DC signal, it's not a smooth, constant signal.

AC is a smooth, rounded up and down. When you put that signal into a rectifier, what is basically does is leave the positive part of the AC signal alone, but takes the negative portion and flips it to positive. The resulting signal is indeed DC, because it's no longer alternating, it's all positive and traveling in one direction, but it's not smooth and consistent. This can cause flickering or strobing in LED lights.

wilkin250r

05-19-2011, 04:57 PM

To smooth out that choppy signal, you either use a battery or large capacitor, and both are basically going to do the same thing. The power is going INTO the capacitor at the peaks, and coming OUT of the battery during the dips.

It's still not perfect, there is going to be a small amount of ripple, but the larger the capacitor, the less the ripple. And there's no such thing as a smooth DC signal anyways, even a battery will have a ripple if multiple loads are connected and disconnected.

http://www.radio-electronics.com/info/circuits/diode-rectifier/diode-rectifier-smoothing-02.gif

wilkin250r

05-19-2011, 05:05 PM

And to answer your other questions, the blue and green wires coming out of your stator are the pulse generator, the little thing on the outside of your flywheel. It's the timing trigger that goes to your CDI to tell it when to fire.

The black/red wire is the exciter coil. It provides the POWER for your spark. The pulse generator is actually a very small signal, it doesn't have enough power to actually fire a spark. It's basically like the hammer on a gun, and the exciter coil is the gunpowder.

The OTHER solder connection you saw on your stator is the ground for the exciter coil. Don't worry, because it's an independent coil, it won't be affected by floating your lighting ground and your DC power conversion. You can have an AC power source and a DC power source sharing the same ground without any problems, as long as they come from different sources. Different coils, different sources, you're okay.

DnB_racing

05-19-2011, 05:22 PM

Originally posted by wilkin250r
And to answer your other questions, the blue and green wires coming out of your stator are the pulse generator, the little thing on the outside of your flywheel. It's the timing trigger that goes to your CDI to tell it when to fire.

is the IPG just a proximity switch?

Uns

05-19-2011, 07:29 PM

Originally posted by DnB_racing
is the IPG just a proximity switch?

We are veering quite a bit off of topic with these last couple of pages, but yes, from the schematics, I would assume that the pulse coil is just some style of switch that either supplies a small current or voltage, or sinks a small current or voltage, of the gate or base of a cmos or bjt transistor inside the CDI. Basically a switch for a solid state relay. This is an assumption though. I have never studied ignition systems.

And all of the info we have been shoving down your throat asside, all you really need to know is make the two AC ends go into the two AC wires of a rec/reg, and make the positive end of the DC go into your old white wire and the black end go to chassis ground. Add a bat or audio cap between said red wire and chassis ground if the flickering bothers you.

If you are really interested actually learning about the basics of AC to DC and the theories behind them, check out these links:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voltage_regulator
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rectifiers

And one other minor point I was thinking I should add. You can get nice big capacitors that are not designed for things like car audio for really cheap. You really DO NOT want a capacitor not designed for a car audio application. The ones designed for car audio are built to protect againsed something called inrush current when attached to a system. While this inrush current is mostly a bad thing for batteries, it is not good for the longevity of any electrical system, and could potentially reek havoc on your wiring and breaker points. Paying a bit extra for a few farad audio cap with circuitry designed to prevent this is simple and easy insurance againsed any problems. This is, of course, only if you are going the capacitor route.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inrush_current

wilkin250r

05-19-2011, 09:22 PM

Originally posted by Uns
I would assume that the pulse coil is just some style of switch that either supplies a small current or voltage, or sinks a small current or voltage, of the gate or base of a cmos or bjt transistor inside the CDI. Basically a switch for a solid state relay. This is an assumption though. I have never studied ignition systems.

It's a little bit more complex than that, because if the pulse coil was indeed the actual trigger, then there would be no way to advance or retard the timing to create a timing curve.

dtek01

05-19-2011, 09:59 PM

Thank all for the help I think I got a grip on the wirirng and the understanding of this. I appreciate the diagrams and explanations.

Before this thread I was really thinking completely different on how the system works.

What would you recommend for a regulator/rectifier and cap?

Prices are all over the place for the regulator/rectifiers.

Capacitor wise I want something light. I have an old stereo 1 farad cap but tha darn thing is a heavy 12" tube.

Chino886

05-19-2011, 10:02 PM

RMATV has one for about $15 i think

Uns

05-19-2011, 11:15 PM

Originally posted by dtek01
Thank all for the help I think I got a grip on the wirirng and the understanding of this. I appreciate the diagrams and explanations.

Before this thread I was really thinking completely different on how the system works.

What would you recommend for a regulator/rectifier and cap?

Prices are all over the place for the regulator/rectifiers.

Capacitor wise I want something light. I have an old stereo 1 farad cap but tha darn thing is a heavy 12" tube.

All reg/recs will output the correct voltage(as long as you dont get some strange 24v module) and the only question is the wattage the unit can handle before something bad happens.

Rocky mountain does have a reg/rec, but it is 40.99.
http://www.rockymountainatvmc.com/productDetail.do?navType=type&webTypeId=88&navTitle=ATV+Parts&webCatId=24&keyword=rectifier&prodFamilyId=27240

150 watts is probably more than enough, as the stock system I believe peaks at 70 ish watts and I don't believe aftermarket wound stators get above that 150 mark.

For some reason I thought the tympanium unit carried by ricky stator was 200 watts, but now I cant find a figure. That was like 3 years ago now though so pulling numbers outa my arse. It did well with my 9AH batt, 2 35 watt HID's and led tailight.
http://www.rickystator.com/pages/Single_Phase_Rectifier_Regulator.html

As far as capacitors, I would honestly try it without and see what you think. I'm wondering if you will even notice the flicker at high rpm's, and if you don't like it without the cap, all you have to do is splice into the wire between the reg/rec and headlight/taillights with the positive end and slap it in.

If you are going to grab a cap though, the bigger the better. They all will be light-ish, and I would think a 1-5 Farad cap should suit just fine. Just make sure it is an actual audio cap with a slow charge rate.

As just an example:
http://www.amazon.com/Raptor-C1-0FM-Farad-Capacitor-Digital/dp/B0009DTJBO/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1305868073&sr=1-1

I would just aim for whatever you think you could fit on the bike, thats above probably half a farad. The one i linked was only a 30 second search on amazon sorted by highest review.

dtek01

05-20-2011, 09:38 AM

Thanks for the information!!

Right now I just have 2 x 25w headlamps and the LED tailamp. I will be going LED on the front lamps and no plans for HIDs so i will try without the capacitor first.

Will any rectifier/regulator work? I see tons of them on ebay for $8 on up for like the chinese atvs and stuff. Will something like that work as long as I can get the wire diagrams for it?

Much cheaper than $45.

I have a 12v DC adapter connected for testing to the white/yellow wire and got the rear LED working and the brake switch installed and working as well. Now I just need to do the stator mod and recifier.

The quad is not running right now so no way to test it even if I do the mod. I just want to get it wored up for when the cylinder arrives.

Uns

05-20-2011, 11:23 AM

Originally posted by dtek01
Thanks for the information!!

Right now I just have 2 x 25w headlamps and the LED tailamp. I will be going LED on the front lamps and no plans for HIDs so i will try without the capacitor first.

Will any rectifier/regulator work? I see tons of them on ebay for $8 on up for like the chinese atvs and stuff. Will something like that work as long as I can get the wire diagrams for it?

Much cheaper than $45.

I have a 12v DC adapter connected for testing to the white/yellow wire and got the rear LED working and the brake switch installed and working as well. Now I just need to do the stator mod and recifier.

The quad is not running right now so no way to test it even if I do the mod. I just want to get it wored up for when the cylinder arrives.

Well, it kind of depends. If you rarely ride at night and usually with a group and not alone, the serious potential for the rectifier diodes to pop wouldn't be so bad.

But if you want to trust your headlights at all, you should get something that has a data sheet or a name behind it. While its true that all regulator/rectifiers are probably made in china, they aren't all made with the same power rating in mind.

Try searching for "regulator rectifier". See that? 3600 results, with some at 5 dollars.

Now add the search term amps. See that? 26 results, with the first real result being 30 dollars after shipping. Adding the search term "watt" turns up zero results.

So I would steer clear of the ebay stuff. This is a component that is going to play a fairly vital role on your quad, and you really want something actually rated 10A or higher, not some Chinese cheapo one-hung-low brand with no specs on how many amps it can rectify and regulate.

wilkin250r

05-24-2011, 07:59 PM

And just as important as the information we posted on how-to, we want information on how-well. Post your results!

dtek01

05-24-2011, 08:27 PM

Hey you got it!! :)

Since mine is not running we converted my cousins last night just as everyone has advised.

He had an old rectifier regulator from a chinese atv. We hooked it all up and nothing. After some voltage test turns out the regulator was only putting out 7v :) Would not power anything but a small LED.

So it worked now we just need to get a real rectifier and try it and I will post results.

Then I will do mine but it will not be till another few weeks or so before my bike runs.

Uns

05-24-2011, 11:46 PM

Originally posted by dtek01
Hey you got it!! :)

Since mine is not running we converted my cousins last night just as everyone has advised.

He had an old rectifier regulator from a chinese atv. We hooked it all up and nothing. After some voltage test turns out the regulator was only putting out 7v :) Would not power anything but a small LED.

So it worked now we just need to get a real rectifier and try it and I will post results.

Then I will do mine but it will not be till another few weeks or so before my bike runs.

So I'm curious, did you test that regulator with the meter on AC that has true RMS?

I'm guessing you didn't have a cap or battery in the system? If you checked it with a DC meter or non-RMS AC meter without a battery, reading 7 volts on a working reg/rec seems possible, if not still a bit on the low side. It's possible that the reg/rec is bad, but 7v DC reading out of a reg/rec wouldn't be proof of it.

Obviously you probably should get a better rectifier/regulator before worrying to much, but I would be real curious to know what kind of voltage potential you are getting with an RMS reading, or a cap hooked up and a DC reading.

Also seems kind of odd that it will only just barely power a small LED. What else did you try?

dtek01

05-25-2011, 12:07 AM

I am not sure what meter he used as I am very ignorant with those but we checked to see what AC was going to the rectifier and it was around 30-40 volt range I think. It was one of those old needle types that I cannot read well at all. If it was digital I could tell ya excatly what I saw.

So it was getting AC voltage and looked to be allot of it. Then we checked the DC out of the rectifier and it showed 7v when we reved up the bike.

We tried a 12v LED test light and it would not light, then we took a small led setup (2xleds) made for Amp research truck running boards and it lit just fine and bright but did flicker when the bike idled.

He has the Vision X Solstace headlights and when we tried those and when we revved the bike only one would barley light and flicker like crazy due to the low voltage.

So since we have no idea if the bike this rectifier came out of is 6v or 12v or if it is any good to begin with. We assumed it was a 6v setup.

He bought a rectifier/regulator today and we should be able to test it by the weekend and see how it does.

dtek01

05-25-2011, 01:13 AM

Ok..He told me he got an 04' 400EX rectifier off Ebay. I just looked online and it seems it is 6 wires connection.

Will this work with the setup he just did?

Uns

05-25-2011, 10:33 AM

It looks to me like it is only 5 wire according to the wiring diagram, and that the extra run is ran to the neutral switch, ignition key and ignition switch, so I'm guessing that wire can be left as a short.

I would worry more about the fact that this reg/rec has no wires ran from it, taking a harness plug instead, and that if you are not getting a harness piece with it, your life is going to be annoyingly difficult tapping the 4 pins.

badmthrfckr

06-03-2011, 01:38 PM

ITS CONFIRMED THAT THE 400EX REGULATOR WORKS LIKE A CHARM IN MY 250R... AND THE EXTRA WIRE GETS JUMPED BACK INTO THE 12V + RED WIRE FROM THE REGULATOR.... THIS WIRE MUST BE HOOKED UP TO THE 12V + OUTPUT OF THE REGULATOR OR IT WONT REGULATE A MAX OF 14.8 VOLTS, INSTEAD IT PUSHES ABOUT 60VOLTS AT HIGH RPM.... ILL ATTACH PICS OF MY INSTALL LATER..... iT WORKS SO BAD *** AND 100% NO FLICKER USING MY VISION X SOLSTICE LED LIGHTS AT IDLE

Uns

06-03-2011, 02:22 PM

Nice! Glad to hear it.

So no capacitor or battery at all?

I found a formula for the frequency of the AC provided by the stator, which is rpm = 120f/2. So assuming an idle speed of around 1200(easy maths), you're talking 20 Hz, or 40 peaks rectified. I would think flicker would be noticeable at that level, but I suppose it isn't!

This is killer news, and simplifies a lot of people's lives(mine!) who were thinking about adding lighting but hate the idea of any unnecessary weight or complexity.

badmthrfckr

06-04-2011, 12:51 AM

Yes, I'm using a 12v 3.4mAh sealed dry cell battery.... I'll try and post pics tomorrow of where I mounted the battery, and a wire diagram of how to convert to DC using a stock 400EX regulator/rectifier and 12v battery, using factory light switch and stock harness.

Its so nice being able to run lights when the bike isn't running, and the piece of mind knowing if the battery dies the bike will always still start and quickly recharge the battery like new.

wilkin250r

06-04-2011, 10:25 AM

Originally posted by badmthrfckr
[B]Yes, I'm using a 12v 3.4mAh sealed dry cell battery.... [B]

This has to be a typo, you mean 3.4Ah, right? Not milliamp hours, that would be about the size of a watch battery.

Figure a 55 watt light will run about 4.5 amps. The math is really easy, just divide your power rating (55 watts) by the operating voltage (12V) and you'll get how many amps it draws. From there it's easy to calculate how long you can run those lights. In theory, a 5 amp-hour battery can supply 5 amps for one hour, or 10 amps for 30 minutes, or 2.5 amps for 2 hours. You get the picture. Your LED taillight won't really draw much, I'm thinking 5 watts max.

It's possible to go even smaller with the battery, because you're not trying to start the quad, you're just running lights. Your 3.4aH battery will run 55 watts of lights for about 45 minutes. A 1.2 amp hour battery would run your lights for about 15 minutes.

badmthrfckr

06-06-2011, 09:17 PM

In reply to my previous post.... I did make a typo. I'm using a 3.4Ah dry cell battery along with a 2001 400ex regulator, and 30 amp auto resettable breaker. It works so good I'm still in awe.. Absolutely no flicker at any lowest idle, and I got a digital micro volt meter to monitor the output of the regulator at all times... So far it's always charging at 14.6v... Thanks for all the good info guys!

wilkin250r

06-15-2011, 09:14 AM

I want to re-visit this guy and clear some issues up.

I looked everywhere on the internet for a 400EX wiring diagram, but it was taking longer than three minutes, so I gave up. I want to see all the connections and where they are supposed to go.

bad-can you tell me exactly how yours is hooked up?

With all these details, I'll buy a 400EX regulator/rectifier on ebay and try it out, and post it in the "How To" section (as well as a link in our own sticky section) for a DC conversion.

badmthrfckr

06-15-2011, 09:24 AM

Absolutely.... I'm at work now and will get this handled when I get off tonight..... And your right....after hours of searching for a diagram of the 400ex pinout I had no luck but I am pretty good at figuring out electronic components and using an expensive meter so I was able to pinpoint all the correct inputs and outputs..... I'll have your info and a good diagram later tonight..... Thanks

DnB_racing

06-15-2011, 10:47 AM

400ex wire schematic

DnB_racing

06-15-2011, 10:55 AM

if that schematic is too distorted here is a link for the manuals

http://www.maxmekker.com/atv.asp

wilkin250r

06-15-2011, 12:27 PM

DnB, you think your rep can find a connector for the 400EX regulator? The regulators can be found on ebay for pretty cheap, but the connector poses a slight obstacle. If we can find the connector for the regulator, and marry that with the connectors for the OEM harness, we could sell a complete DC conversion kit capable of LED or HID lighting.

If necessary, I could probably buy a complete wire harness on Ebay and send you the connector to give to your rep...

DnB_racing

06-15-2011, 12:48 PM

Originally posted by wilkin250r
DnB, you think your rep can find a connector for the 400EX regulator? The regulators can be found on ebay for pretty cheap, but the connector poses a slight obstacle. If we can find the connector for the regulator, and marry that with the connectors for the OEM harness, we could sell a complete DC conversion kit capable of LED or HID lighting.

If necessary, I could probably buy a complete wire harness on Ebay and send you the connector to give to your rep... I think he might be able to, I know he is still trying to find the 250r ... i think he said only one of the connectors was a little different, but he didnt think that would be a problem, just needed to find it, im not sure if it was the reg or the cdi connector, but he still thinks he can find all of them,