Title Issues! PA and MD people check this out

[Sjorge450R]

Alright, I am asking this here, because I feel like my local tag stores are just trying to get money from me.

Background: I bought my 450r in October of 06 from a New Jersey Dealership(I live in PA). I took a loan to pay for it and I payed it off. I know have a Certificate of Origin for it with my name on the back. Due to the quad only being used as a race machine, I never titled it nor did I register it.

Now the time has come to sell it and I am trying to trade my quad for a street bike from MD. I didnt notice until last night that I had a certificate of origin, I thought I always had a title.

Heres the thing. My tag places are trying to tell me its going to cost me $75 to title the atv and I have to pay the tax on it in order to get the title. I am fairly certain the new owner will not need/want a title, so could I just sign the back of the Certificate of Origin and be done with it? The fees are out of control and i just feel like I am trying to be taken advantage of by these tag places. Let me know if you guys know or have experience with this.

[THARNESS]

As long as the guy you're selling it to plans on using it on the track and has no need for a title, just make him a bill of sale and rock on. Happens all the time here in arkansas where many quads never leave the farm or hunting camp. However if he's going to be riding at any off road parks ar public land where it has to be registered than it will be a problem.

[TheLane]

Coming from your resedent recreational vehicle loan officer here.

They are unfortunately right. IF you are going to be using the vehicle anywhere other than private land you will need to have it registered.

Now having it titled and having it registered are two COMPLTELEY different things, As of right now you TECHNICALLY dont own that vehicle without the title being in your name, at least as far as the state is concerned. So there is no recourse for your if your vehicle is stolen, i mean yes you have a signed MCO but that has not been reported to anyone, so if you lose it.....you might as well of not even purchased the bike. (yes, im sure you could get another copy somehow, but im just making point :) )

And technically the other owner could run into problems down the road because even if you werent to register it, you were still required by law to pay sales tax, and by not doing so knowingly is technically a form of tax evasion and if the government REALLY wanted to get up in your grill could garnish wages.

[Sjorge450R]

Thelane, I have a question for you. Since its not in my name yet, could I just have him title it into his name directly so we dont have to wait forever for my title to come back? I dont have 4-6 weeks to wait. I would of course pay the taxes on it.

[TheLane]

ONLY if you havent signed your MCO, however.

And HE would have to pay purchase tax on the amount you bought the bike for new, not what you sold it to him for.

now yet again, you COULD sell it without all of this, but!!!! noone will EVER be able to title it if you dont.

you wouldnt be able to write up a bill of sale, because as far as the state is concerned, you dont own the vehicle, so you dont have the authority to sell it.

[Sjorge450R]

Originally posted by TheLane
ONLY if you havent signed your MCO, however.

And HE would have to pay purchase tax on the amount you bought the bike for new, not what you sold it to him for.

No where on my MCO is my signature. On the back side at the top my information is filled out such as my address and name, but nothing more. There is a signature from the dealer only. And when I said I would pay for the tax, I would give the new buyer the money to cover the tax that I should have payed to speed up the process.

So your telling me, if I take my MCO to Maryland with me to his MVA, I could just have the title issued into his name?

[Sjorge450R]

I just wanted to throw this out there. I am in no way trying to evade any taxes, I just want this sale to go through as soon as possible.

[TheLane]

oh haha i didnt mean that AT all, sorry man im just at work and trying to type fast in between loans. :D

If for your particular MCO if you name is on it, it is showing that you purchased the bike and so it would be obvious it was 2 seperate purchases, so....they would probably still try to make you pay sales tax twice. : /

[Sjorge450R]

well this sucks. We both want the trade to happen asap, so I will have to call him and see if he would be down for swapping while I get the title processed. He really has no need for a title but I want this done right. Thanks for the help Lane.

[chucked]

I am in MD currently trying to title a dirt bike I bought from a guy in MD who bought it from DE and never had it titled in MD. What a mess.. I want to insure it, that's why I want it titled.

[deathman53]

here in NJ, you can insure almost anything, no title needed. You don't need to title it(nor can't either) A NOTARIZED bill of sale is all you need. A MCO/MSO tracing it back to that person helps also. I tried to register my trx250r, I needed a bill of sale(notarized) from the last known owner of it, vin number search and insurance. It could be done if I wanted to, just concerned about the vin search, you never know what happened to it in 20 years, could be clean, also maybe stolen at some point in time.

[derekhonda]

Originally posted by TheLane
Coming from your resedent recreational vehicle loan officer here.

They are unfortunately right. IF you are going to be using the vehicle anywhere other than private land you will need to have it registered.

Now having it titled and having it registered are two COMPLTELEY different things, As of right now you TECHNICALLY dont own that vehicle without the title being in your name, at least as far as the state is concerned. So there is no recourse for your if your vehicle is stolen, i mean yes you have a signed MCO but that has not been reported to anyone, so if you lose it.....you might as well of not even purchased the bike. (yes, im sure you could get another copy somehow, but im just making point :) )

And technically the other owner could run into problems down the road because even if you werent to register it, you were still required by law to pay sales tax, and by not doing so knowingly is technically a form of tax evasion and if the government REALLY wanted to get up in your grill could garnish wages.

I know all this information is correct, but I just wanted to point out a funny thing I thought of.

Isn't it funny, that the government could come back on you for never paying the sales tax on your bike, however, technically since you didnt ever have a title placed into your name, you never owned it should it be stolen, etc. Seems like a typical government round-a-bout

[01 400EXer]

I live in MD and everything they told you is true. Sell the 450R out right with the Cert. of Origin to avoid paying registration and taxes on it. If the next guy wants to register let him pay the fees. Then go buy the street bike. I have had many offroad bikes and atvs and I have only ever had a Cert. of Origin. One day I may have to register one, but until that day comes a Cert. of Origin is good enough for me