Baldwin Motosports

[Grande Huevos]

I was going to send my shocks off to baldwin the other day but after talking w Mark i guess hes the owner or somthing? but man what a class a D-BAG!!! When i told him i had a 250r he laughed and said "one of those old dogs huh!" I was instantly like wtf? but i let it go and said "sure i guess u could say that", then when i told him i had a pair of TCS tripple rates i wanted to rebuild he laughed again and said " wow arent u really lucky" I asked what he meant by it and he rudly replied "nothing whats ur question!?" I also let this comment go and after telling him that i wanted them checked out and revalved he tried telling me that my shocks are P.O.S. and i should just throw them away and buy a Brand new set because they are not worth the money and it would cost me at least $600 and thats if none of the major parts are damaged! LOL man this guy is a joke!!! i told him what to do w it and hung up. I have never been more unsatisfied and dissopointed w the disrespect from a company ever!

[DnB_racing]

Im not sure if you were expecting the politically correct yes sir no sir type of answers, But Mark is very knowledgeable person that is a regular guy,

Ya he busts ball and acts like one of the guys hanging around the water fountain, maybe you were just expecting something else, but he is very good at what he does

[J.B.]

Regardless if he is good or not at what he does, **** talking a potential customers stuff is not going to bring him business. Plenty of other qualified peeps out there to service your shocks.

[Jonny B]

I really think you should concider what he has to say...and maybe not take it soooo persaonal. He was giving the advice that you least wanted to hear and he did not suger coat it for you. Mark is a builder, not a desk person, people skills are not for everyone. If he says its $600 to rebuild them, then I would also toss them and put the money into something worth rebuilding.

[DnB_racing]

lets be honest TCS are ok shocks and work fine .. but if I had to totally rework and try to change them for another setup or length, then it might not be worth it,
if you want them serviced that's one thing, but from what it sounds your looking for more then that

[Ruf Racing]

That's the trouble with some of these, big time builders. They think their $hit is gospel. Call around, there are plenty of others that are willing to give you the service and take your money. Without the mucho badass attitude. :macho Just saying! :D

[DnB_racing]

Originally posted by Ruf Racing
there are plenty of others that are willing to give you the service and take your money. very true!!
some will do whatever you want, even if they know there is a better way,

I prefer truth ...yes some may be a little rough around the edges, I guess im thicker skinned then some,

in this day when the world is at our finger tips,there are so many options available, one of the only sure ways to be able to tell the good from bad is if they stand the test of time, bad wont last!
and Mark has passed that test

[hawaiiysr]

just call racetech

[hartwill]

I assure you that he was just BSing about the 250r. I have sat and talked with him on the phone for a half hour before about how much he loved working on and riding them. Maybe his people skills aren't great but his work is second to none I assure you. Also right now he does a lot of work with KTMs team so he's Probly pretty busy and maybe you caught him on a rough day. We all have those..

[socal]

Whats up with you people defending this guy?Yea,you can talk to people in that manner if you know them,Mark dont know this guy from dirt and to dis. his TCS shocks like that,trying to get him to spend $2,500 on a new set is just stupid!"IF"the origional poster is telling the truth,he is doing the rite thing and taking his hard earned $$ somewhere else,I would do the same thing!The cocky ba$turd workers at these companys fail to realize,they are where they are because of us,the little guy!Show some respect!

[rayman375]

I just called them the other day about rebuilding and revalving a set of pep's, it was no where near that price. I didn't get to talk to Mark though.

[hontrx265r]

I'm not going to defend him although he has always helped me out, and no I don't personally know him. However on the comment about the shops...I've worked at a few different shops over the years, and I can say this. Everybody that I've worked with/for has always started out an enthusiest and turned into an *******. I used to say support your local shop and all that.. now I don't buy a single part locally, I keep all my business online and I do all my own work. Now that isn't easy for everybody, I understand that sometimes you need some extra knowledge or have questions about what your doing. Again I don't know the context of the conversation, but remember...these guys behind the counter get beat down everyday about pricing, service, returning calls etc... and most of them are running a shop on minimal staff. It can get tense, probably caught him at the wrong time, but there are plenty of places that would love your business and do good work, so move on. I've also had poor service from places i wouldn't expect. I just never go back.

[chronicsmoke]

Originally posted by hontrx265r
I used to say support your local shop and all that.. now I don't buy a single part locally, I keep all my business online and I do all my own work.

A-men to that. I HATE ordering parts through my local shop.. I've been waiting 2 MONTHS for a sprocket bolt from my local honda dealership. I actually just got off the phone with them.. cancelling my order. F-that :mad:

[bigmatt61]

I'm with jonnyb and Mr. Baldwin on this. Unless you DON'T need new springs or a complete rebuild, keep the shocks.
If, however, you need springs or a complete weight change setup and update, TOSS them.
Old shocks, old technology. Talked to Mark Laeger about this and his T-pin front end and his EXACT words were,"I built it that way because the shock technology wasn't there". He also said "with the shock tech of today standard travel is all you need".
Baldwin said what he said as advice not to be an *****. If you would have stayed on the line and insisted he build your shocks I'm sure he would have done it and it would have cost you more in the end.
Sorry.

Matt

[socal]

Easy for you to say,not everyone has the $$$ to spend on new shocks!Even if it would cost 600,thats still not 1,200+....Regardless,there is no SORRY in this,bad customer service is un called for PERIOD! As for the TCS being old tech.SO WHAT,they are a good shock!There are people still running stock shocks,not everyone wants to run out and buy the latest....

[Grande Huevos]

First off this entire conversation is nothing but true! I have no reason to lie and have nobody to impress. I dont expect anybody to call me sir or anything like that. Im just a regular guy who loves riding as do the rest of u! Im not saying the guy isnt good at what he does or trying to take anything away from him or his company because I could care less if anybody takes what i have to say for real or if it doesnt keep anybody from buying from him. Im simply just sharing my experience. Now maybe i did catch him at a bad time or somthing but when ur running a buissness u keep ur personal life seperate from work and u dont act like a duech or like ur s*it dont stink no matter who u talk to.


Originally posted by Jonny B
I really think you should concider what he has to say...and maybe not take it soooo persaonal. He was giving the advice that you least wanted to hear and he did not suger coat it for you. Mark is a builder, not a desk person, people skills are not for everyone. If he says its $600 to rebuild them, then I would also toss them and put the money into something worth rebuilding.

and to consider what he had to say!? This dude didnt have to "sugar coat" anything he was a joke! I purchased an entire front end from a member on this site not to long ago who had an emaculant Lsr or Lrd attitude framed 250R and My shocks are in perfect condition minus the fact i need them sat up for my weight and ride style! He has never seen them or anything and thats what he has to offer? Get real, i kno they may not hold up to the standards of a set of Custom Axis or somthing but TCS/ Race Techs are just as good if not better then alot of other shocks out there, and when they have new seals, oil, and nitrogen then they are pretty much brand new so how could i justify throwing them away or spending that kinda money w somone who acted like a d*ck!!?? I called around Gt thunder was cool they said for the same exact thing Baldwin offered for a minimum of $600 they would do for about $375 Desri racing $200 and couple others for around $350-400

[Grande Huevos]

Originally posted by socal
Easy for you to say,not everyone has the $$$ to spend on new shocks!Even if it would cost 600,thats still not 1,200+....Regardless,there is no SORRY in this,bad customer service is un called for PERIOD! As for the TCS being old tech.SO WHAT,they are a good shock!There are people still running stock shocks,not everyone wants to run out and buy the latest....

And yes socal u are absolutly right!!! I would love nothing more then to have a brand spankin new set of custom Axis but like u said $$$$$$$$ iv been building my bike for the last 7 months as i get money and if i could afford to just buy new like that then i would be rolling a Kick as* Lobo ! Take it for what its worth guys but in My opinion based simply on my very first and last contact w baldwin they get 2 Thumbs down!!!! BOOOOOO!!!! LOL

[97Rocks]

I could tell you a long story about Mark Baldwin... short version is he was Tim Farrs mechanic in the huge super nice hauler back in early 2003 at one of the nationals..., I blew up my motor and needed a hone job. Asked Mark, and yes I kinda knew him, but the point is that he dropped everything he was doing and had WD40 and crap flying all over Tim's nice hauler. Did it for NOTHING too. I will say he does tell it like it is....maybe he was having a bad day. I will always like Baldwin but thats just me. Good luck with the shocks!

[K-Dub]

Ive called and talked to Mark a few times. He always chuckles when I tell him its about a 250R, but as the conversation moves on you can hear that he has a soft spot for the R. I called him for jets and a couple other carb parts no one else would sell me because of not meeting minimum order price. Mark said yea I got that old stuff in the back room, I will have to dig around and call you back. Which he did and had the parts next day and was riding thanks to him. Not defending him but thats how he always talks to me, I just take it as him having some fun as in the old dog part. Talked to him about building an R engine for me, felt he was very honest with me. Said he would build one but any parts I needed I would have to find and furnish as he did not have time to hunt parts, also there was probably better people out there than him nowadays, due to him building mostly 4 strokes now.

[jbltz450]

Baldwin is first class and it is very hard for me to believe that he would talk to someone in that manner. I would venture to say he is one of if not the best sport atv mechanic/engine builder/tuner in the business and in 10+ years has never once been rude or disrespectful to me or any of my friends. Just my two cents!

[Jonny B]

Originally posted by Jonny B
I really think you should concider what he has to say...and maybe not take it soooo persaonal. He was giving the advice that you least wanted to hear and he did not suger coat it for you. Mark is a builder, not a desk person, people skills are not for everyone. If he says its $600 to rebuild them, then I would also toss them and put the money into something worth rebuilding.


Hey Grande, you can take this comment I made and run any direction you want with it....but I still think that you should concider what he has to say. The price of re-build is sometimes not worth it...Im glad you found the same work for cheaper.

If the shocks you have are "PERFECT CONDITION"...why dont you sell them. You could take that money you get and add the money you would spend to rebuild to get a sweet pair of shocks allready set up for you???

[Dupontster]

jbltz450- Agreed!

[D Bergstrom]

Originally posted by bigmatt61
Old shocks, old technology.


Originally posted by Jonny B
If he says its $600 to rebuild them, then I would also toss them and put the money into something worth rebuilding.

Can you guys explain to me why TCS shocks are "old technology" and "not worth rebuilding"? They use a piston and shim stack just like many other shocks. Sure that "technology" has been around for a long time, but it is still used alot today so it must work.

When I was running Elka's I used to always send them to Todd over at TCS, amazing how well he made them work. If Motowoz did not exist, I would be running Race Tech now. (As long as Todd is still there.) There is nothing wrong with TCS. I do agree with some others though, if you need to heavily modify them, not worth the money, but that is true of any shock.

Doug

[hontrx265r]

I've actually had that exact conversation with Mark Laeger so i'll say that is a true statement. However I work on all kinds of shocks and air technology aside, there isn't much difference between brands. The most important difference is piston design and how they flow. Now I'm talking base models here so apples to apples not each mfg "special features"
Now throw that aside I would take a tcs over a std pep any day. No I'm not bashing pep and we aren't talking about pb1's

[Jonny B]

The shocks are not worth an ADDITIONAL $600 to set up. They are worth half that when he gets them back.

If you say they are perfect condition, then they are still worth something...

[Grande Huevos]

Originally posted by Jonny B
Hey Grande, you can take this comment I made and run any direction you want with it....but I still think that you should concider what he has to say. The price of re-build is sometimes not worth it...Im glad you found the same work for cheaper.

If the shocks you have are "PERFECT CONDITION"...why dont you sell them. You could take that money you get and add the money you would spend to rebuild to get a sweet pair of shocks allready set up for you???
no man i totally agree w u and whoever els says if it cost $600 or they need completly rebuilt then it would b better to get new, but thats the price he gave me for a basic revalve and said it would b more if other parts were damaged. But other parts r just fine. My shock are fine they are just out of nitrogen Thats it! Im really not trying to bash on the guy and i kno alot of people do buiss w him and are 100% satisfied and that is great but we obviously got off on the wrong foot one way or another, but enough w all that i was just letting people kno what happened. As for selling my shocks and buying somthing diff unless i bought Brand NEW i risk running into the same problem w needing them set up for me ya kno? and from what ive seen i would prob only want Axis or race tech G3s i think they are? and both of those are going to cost me $1200 and up and simply cannot spend that kinda money for somthing like that right now. Anyways i didnt mean to get everybody all worked over all this but thanks for all the comments!!

[hontrx265r]

Don't worry nobody is worked up.. we are just here to be your free online support group.. haha

[Grande Huevos]

One last thing the reasoning behind me having the TCS is because the bike i picked up which i have been going through for the last 7 months the front end needed ball joints, powder,tie rod ends, a tie rod and it had a set of works on it that i was going to revavle too and i found on this site a entire front end which i picked up for $700 shipped. this got me a set of +2+1 arms w stanless tie rods and they all had PERFECT ball joints/bushings/tie ends, and black powder. The arms and tie rods have absolutly no marks, scratches, or blemishes they look as if they were never used before! The shocks look about the same i think i found 2 tiny chips in the paint on one of the springs. The TCS shocks are actually cheaper to revalve then the works for whatever reason? idk why but they are and they look WAY better, the springs are bigger, the main shaft on them look alot bigger then the works ones, and they have compression adjustment on the rezzie which my works did not so I would have to say that they are a far better shock all the way around. I called around to a few places and posted on here to see if anybody had used them and the overall conclusion was that they are pretty kick a*$ and people were happy w them! Even tho tcs is now owned by race tech all the parts are rebuildable w the new tech if need be. I will let u all kno how they work out for me when i get it all done and get my pics ready, hopfully in the next couple weeks. so keep an eye out for my build thread "The Ressurection another R risin from the dead"

[TWISTED]

I know there are some other good builders out there, but I'll take Mark any day.... He tells it like it is, no sugar coating the situation..... I'll also agree that he costs a bit more that others, but good service doesn't cost, it pays in the long run......

[Lasher]

I have watched this topic since it was first posted. As for Baldwin, I have not dealt with him, so I have no say on that.

But TCS shocks, I owned a set. They were Works shocks converted to TCS valving (going back years). From what I remember, there were two different types of valving. Not exactly sure, but PEP had something with a ball type valving and Custom Axis used shims. TCS followed Custom Axis with shims. Again...going way back in the memory banks here.

For Baldwin to rebuild the shocks, maybe he was thinking of changing the type of valving. I believe it was around $600 for the TCS conversion.

Last I knew, Todd was running the ATV division of Race Tech when they took over TCS. That would be your best bet for getting them done.

[jbltz450]

Quality doesn't cost.....it pays........I have raced on Elka, Custom Axis, and PEP....I will take the PEPs over the other two any day......however, the harder you ride them the better they work....if you don't ride them hard, they feel like a log truck!

[hartwill]

Originally posted by jbltz450
Quality doesn't cost.....it pays........I have raced on Elka, Custom Axis, and PEP....I will take the PEPs over the other two any day......however, the harder you ride them the better they work....if you don't ride them hard, they feel like a log truck!
X2.. but a long truck with nice shocks:D

[dustin_j]

This thread has some good info, but read carefully, haha. I agree with hontrx265r, your TCS shocks are better than the non-PB1 PEP (Works) shocks that everyone on here praises. Lasher is right. PEP took Works shocks, and added a ZPS spring to better market a sub-par shock (clearly it worked), while others converted to shim style valving for superior performance.

Grande, do youself a favor and read the suspension setup articles on GT Thunder's website. When you go through them and take measurements on your quad, you will not only learn a lot, but also be able to better narrow in on what needs to be done to your TCS shocks. From there, you can get a better idea how much it will cost and if it's worth it. To some extent, I agree that if your lengths are way off and spring rates are all wrong, new shocks (look at HLS) look very appealing. However, if your lengths are close and can be modified with only spacers, and you maybe only need to change the main spring rate, then your rebuild cost wouldn't be too bad.

[hartwill]

I'm not sure what you mean peps are basic a works shock? None of there feature are the same, they have bigger shafts, ball valving, more adjustment, even the body is different. With all that said I don't know how it would be economical to start with a works shock and convert it to pep zps... if anything I would say the tcs much more likely came from a works shock but I don't even believe that.. If I'm not mistaken pep was an Italian company that Mark Baldwin actually introduced to u.s.a. but don't quote that.
(Maybe you should re-read lashers statement)

[troybilt]

Originally posted by hartwill
I'm not sure what you mean peps are basic a works shock? None of there feature are the same, they have bigger shafts, ball valving, more adjustment, even the body is different. With all that said I don't know how it would be economical to start with a works shock and convert it to pep zps... if anything I would say the tcs much more likely came from a works shock but I don't even believe that.. If I'm not mistaken pep was an Italian company that Mark Baldwin actually introduced to u.s.a. but don't quote that.
(Maybe you should re-read lashers statement)

PEP was created by Wayne Mooradian.... There are 3 AUTHORIZED PEP service and sales shops. Wayne - west coast, Seth at SF racing Midwest, and Baldwin East Coast... those are the one's I'm aware of. Wayne also was instrumental in the Fox Float design, for those interested.

http://www.atvconnection.com/Departments/ATV_Racing/PEP-Shocks.cfm

[fastrnrik]

PEP isn't from Italy? It stands for Performance Engineered Products. They used to do motor work, suspension stuff, etc. There's a guy on another forum with an old Quadzilla with one of his motors in it. The PEP / Works thing comes from the way early days when PEP owner Wayne Meridian would take Works shocks and convert them to his specs. They were wayyyyy better than a standard Works shock. To say PEP's & Works are the same is like saying peanut butter & jelly are the same LOL.
There's nothing "wrong" with Works, TCS, or any other shock as long as it's set up correctly. I've had both and they were ok. I actually liked the TCS. I think the difference that originally made PEP's superior from others is (from a racing standpoint) when you were at the track you could get them adjusted, setup, or repaired right there, and honestly Wayne is kind of a weird fellow, but the dude is a genius on suspension stuff.
Plus, back in the day there wasn't near the choices for shocks and people to work on them. Heck I remember getting my first pair of WP shocks and I thought I was a superstar! LOL

[Lasher]

My Works shocks were converted to TCS. They still used the smaller shaft, where new TCS shocks had a larger shaft. (5/8s I think)

Back when I first got started with quad racing (around 2000) there were PEP and Custom Axis at the top of the pile. From what I heard, Wayne was at the nationals and would set up the shocks at the track. Custom Axis did not have the "customer service" name at the races.

This is going back before Elka and TCS was the new kid on the block

[fastrnrik]

I agree about the PEP's. They are by far the best to me, and I have tried the usual suspects-
Axis- they were pretty good. I didn't run them very long
Fox- didn't like them at all. Plus I got enough to do at the track without airing up shocks...
Works- Just your basic entry level shock.
Elka- Crap. Spent more on postage sending them back & forth to Canada to try to get them right than they were worth.
TCS- worked pretty good on a woods bike I had etc.

I have heard the new Ohlins are very good as well as the Motowoz. Me personally, I'll stick with good ol PEP's.

[hartwill]

Originally posted by troybilt
PEP was created by Wayne Mooradian.... There are 3 AUTHORIZED PEP service and sales shops. Wayne - west coast, Seth at SF racing Midwest, and Baldwin East Coast... those are the one's I'm aware of. Wayne also was instrumental in the Fox Float design, for those interested.

http://www.atvconnection.com/Departments/ATV_Racing/PEP-Shocks.cfm that was a really good article. Lots of info in there. I can't recall where I heard it was originally an Italian company but I'm glad you put that to rest before I made too much of a fool of myself. Lol:eek2:

[honda250xrider]

Shouldn't be a big deal to revalve these shocks. More than likely you will need new springs if there is a weight difference from you and the previous owner. You may possibly need a new shim stack depending upon your level of riding and whether you like firmer or softer suspension.

[dustin_j]

Originally posted by hartwill
I'm not sure what you mean peps are basic a works shock? None of there feature are the same, they have bigger shafts, ball valving, more adjustment, even the body is different. With all that said I don't know how it would be economical to start with a works shock and convert it to pep zps... if anything I would say the tcs much more likely came from a works shock but I don't even believe that.. If I'm not mistaken pep was an Italian company that Mark Baldwin actually introduced to u.s.a. but don't quote that.
(Maybe you should re-read lashers statement)

I'm referring to the older PEP ZPS shocks. They used bodies, check ball valving, seals, and shafts, VERY similar to Works shocks. They did use different reservoirs, lower shock eyelets, and a ZPS spring. You are right, they aren't exactly Works shocks. Sorry, my reference should have been explained (also, sorry I didn't mean to quote Lasher). If these shocks work well for people then I'm glad, but after using them and seeing the dyno run below, I'm surprised they're so popular. New PEP shocks are much different and use shim style valving.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dup0wSuRiVc

That was a neat article Troy, thanks for sharing.

[Mrs. SFRacing]

Just siiting in the weeds watching this thing unfold.

[Grande Huevos]

Originally posted by danhung11
To the original author...

You just bashed a reputable company for shooting you straight up advice on your "economical" shocks. On the other hand, you'll praise ESR for selling you a leaky head to your new big bore and work with Tom that sugar coats everything he says?!?!

Seriously...? I'm not bashing, I've sent plenty of coin to both places but Mark knows his stuff whether it's engine or suspension. Take his shortness and lack of small talk with a grain of salt...
If u re-read "my posts" iv said couple times im not trying to "bash" or take anything from the guy. iv also never said he wasnt good at what he does! As for praising ESR.... yes i did get prob 1 out of 1000 cylinders that had somthing wrong w it but this happens, and EDDIE not Tom is taking care of it so of course i will talk good about them. As for this thread i think it pretty funny how a few people keep saying how im so out of line w what i had to say and "i shouldnt take it so personal" well maybe u all should not take what i have to say so personal!! Im not trying to hurt any feelings here and I could care less if people think im full of it or not i was simply telling a true story of horrible customer service! So if this thread needs to be deleted then have at it!! no hurt feelings here.

[honda250xrider]

My only question would be, what is so bad about TCS shocks?

I think it was a simple statement the OP made which was mark thought little of the TCS shocks and more than likely would rather sell him a set of PEPS. Logical thinking as he runs a business.

I would think there would be little difference if any between a correctly valved pep and a tcs shock.

[wilkin250r]

The thread doesn't need to be deleted, there's some good info in here about shocks that we don't need to lose.

As far as the original topic, I blame Wal-Mart. They started this whole "customer is always right" garbage. And they can, because they're a multi-million dollar business, and they get to return products to their vendors for full credit. They can afford to let you be right even when you aren't, because it doesn't cost them anything.

What the original poster should understand, and also anybody else in a similar situation, is that these guys are engine builders first and foremost. They're not politicians. Now some people can do both, and that's great, but some people can't. I know engine builders that won't even ANSWER their phone except for a couple scheduled hours a week, and are still jerks even then, but their motors are top-notch and they win races.

Customer service is important, I won't argue that. But quality is even MORE important. You might be different from me, but I'm not going to let somebody's gruff demeanor keep me from getting the best quality and product I can afford.

[danhung11]

I've always appreciated your comments and advice Erik in this subforum, specially the electrical knowledge. You are a good guy. I don't know how you keep up with the mod responsibilities, I sure don't have the patience.

Some things for you to consider as a Mod...

1) Mark Baldwin was referred to a D-bag, he's far from it.

2) the title is misleading for shock advice and the great info in this thread, how would you like the name of your co. being the title of this thread?

3) this thread really has nothing to do with a 250R besides the shocks is going on a 250R, I'd say it goes in the Lounge or Suspension sub forums. The shocks were probably bought used and came from a different model.

Lastly and most importantly, I believe in customer service 100%. That is my livelihood.

Thanks for listening.
Dan

[Grande Huevos]

i would agree w most of the peole that replied this thread is full of lots of good info! Some may not agree with some of whats been said and for those ill say maybe this Mark fellow is a good guy?,maybe hes the best builder around?, maybe is not indeed as quoted before a d-bag? but he certainly acted like it on the phone. Im not telling people to not spend there money w him im just letting my fellow 250R owners know what happened so they can use the info however they want and make there own decisions. I did have a previous thread on where to send shocks to have them serviced and i recieved alot of good info there as well. I took that info and names that were mentioned called around and did my research. As for my bike i purchased an entire front end so i kno the lenghts and what not do indeed work. Even tho i did buy used as many of us do,this does not make them bad thats why they r designed to b rebuilt. Everthing is solid as is my bike so i simply wanted to revalve them for my self and piece of mind. Last of all yes the shocks and a arms were for a 250r lol they actually came off of a VERY NICE 250R from the member Daveciak for those who would like to actually research before making ignorant comments.

[danhung11]

Here's the guy you referred to as a _____.

http://www.atvriders.com/atvnews/baldwin-motorsports-2011-atv-mx-01-josh-upperman-race-report.html

You think he can build a bike?

[wilkin250r]

Originally posted by danhung11
Some things for you to consider as a Mod...

1) Mark Baldwin was referred to a D-bag, he's far from it.

2) the title is misleading for shock advice and the great info in this thread, how would you like the name of your co. being the title of this thread?

Lastly and most importantly, I believe in customer service 100%. That is my livelihood.

And I do indeed take all those things into consideration, and more.

Although I'm not too pleased with the name-calling, I can't delete the thread just because it's negative, in much the same way I didn't delete the threads about people having problems with ESR porting, or Wiseco 250r cranks being not even worth the cardboard they're shipped in.

Not all informative threads have informative names, and keyword searches don't go by thread titles anyways.

And one of the things I DO like about the thread is the support for Mark Baldwin, his knowledge, and even his personality in general. If somebody was searching for information on Baldwin Motorsports, this thread would certainly be useful to them. If somebody only read the first post and made their decision based on that post alone, then Mark probably doesn't want them as a customer anyways. But for the majority that would read further into the thread, they would see the positive support and experiences with Baldwin, his reputation for top-notch work, and also know what to expect if/when they ever got on the phone with him personally.

If Grande Huevos had read a thread similar to this before his call, he probably would not have been nearly as offended about the responses he got, and the whole thing wouldn't even have become an issue.

[danhung11]

I'm with you wilkin, I basically support anyone who supports our dinosaurs. Name calling has no business here in the TRX250R subforum. Like most of the guys in this section, I appreciate your open mind when you do your modding.

I did take offense to his cheap shots at me, when he knows nothing about me and calls me ignorant. It's uncalled for... I went back and tried to delete as much of the banter, as possible.

My experiences with Mark Baldwin have been excellent. Period.

[Derrick Adams]

Since this seems to be a candid thread I will openly say that I won't deal with Baldwin simply because he never bothered to return the initial email I sent him about working on my shocks.

Seems like if he's too busy to reply he doesn't need my money.

[Grande Huevos]

Originally posted by danhung11
I'm with you wilkin, I basically support anyone who supports our dinosaurs. Name calling has no business here in the TRX250R subforum. Like most of the guys in this section, I appreciate your open mind when you do your modding.

I did take offense to his cheap shots at me, when he knows nothing about me and calls me ignorant. It's uncalled for... I went back and tried to delete as much of the banter, as possible.

My experiences with Mark Baldwin have been excellent. Period.

look Dan im not trying to start anything w anybody, and i NEVER said the guy couldnt build a bike!! I wasnt calling u ignorant either i was meirly refering to the comment u made about how "i probally bought used shocks that werent even for a 250r". That seems like a stab at my intelligence as well.

Ill just come out and say im sorry to all those that took offense to this thread because thats not at all what i was trying to do, and i think some of the things simply got takin out of context and blown out of proportion! Not everbody can see eye to eye all the time

[wilkin250r]

Originally posted by Grande Huevos
Ill just come out and say im sorry to all those that took offense to this thread because thats not at all what i was trying to do, and i think some of the things simply got takin out of context and blown out of proportion! Not everbody can see eye to eye all the time

No need to apologize. You had a negative experience, and you posted it. I would expect the same of anybody that has a negative experience. If you got a lousy port job from CT racing, tell us. If your Duncan motor dies in two hours, tell us. If your Hotrod crank grenades after a week, show us pictures.

You attacked a well-known and respected engine builder, it's unreasonable to expect people to not react. But I also think it's equally absurd to expect YOU to not react when you have a negative experience. Next time, however, I'd probably skip the D-bag comment.

[Ruf Racing]

Originally posted by danhung11

Lastly and most importantly, I believe in customer service 100%.

Thanks for listening.
Dan

^^ Two Thumbs Up! ^^

[2-330s]

Originally posted by Mrs. SFRacing
Just siiting in the weeds watching this thing unfold.

glad you chimed in. my shock works great that Seth rebuilt.

you have had a elka rear off a 660 raptor since the middle of feburary. al would like back. tell Seth to call al and let him know what the scoop is.al has called numerous times and i think andy d. called about it a week or two ago,but still no response. if he can't rebuild it just let us know. if it's junk i can add it to the broken parts of shame bin. lol! i can make some awards out of the junk parts i have.
sorry for the thread jack!
thanks
ken

pep
easy to tune for the layman like me

elka
hard to learn great shock

tcs
have seen other people have good sucess with them. rode a quad with them thought they were fine.

works
seem to be a good upgrade but entery level and not for a serious racer.(i have not tried the black widows)

all are much better than stock but i like my peps

[k7mm]

Listen,I switched to Custom Axis because of how I was treated on the phone by Mark Baldwin.I bought a new complete set of regular travel PEP's off of him for my 250R.I rode them for a few years and they were great.Last year I switched to a LSR no-link frame and was going to run PEP's.I called Mark about converting a 450R rear PEP shock to a no-link.Well he made me feel like the biggest dummy around and told me to spend a thousand on a new one.It was just a bad experience.I was done.I switched to Custom Axis after that phone call.I personally do'nt have time to waste on someone that is so knoweldgeable about shock building,but the only things that can come out of his mouth are rude,heartless comments.I realize that it may not have been worth redoing a 450R rear shock,but the guy is a master builder and chooses to be rude instead of helping people understand.I posted about this on the shock section awhile back,but I choose to delete my comments,mainly because I did not want to bring a guy down that may have been having a bad day.But here I am again.Why I do'nt know?I moved on!
Keith

[RyanWsly]

You will find most suspension companies will not want to deal with shocks that are unknowns. previous application, age, length, valving, spring rate, they are all unknowns when they get them. the bill adds up too quickly on them and then customers are upset due to cost or that they don't perform up to expectations. that being said i will personally never own HLS shocks or do business with GT thunder due to a hard part failure my friend had that was not resolved properly IMO others think they are the best thing going. I have another friend who refuses to deal with Jet because of a deal gone wrong. I have had no problems with Jet so I still do business there because I didn't find him at fault. You can make a list of bad deals with different companies everyone has had a mile long, so anymore it's almost a crap shoot and finding 250R suspension knowledge is an even larger crap shoot. You should find someone you like dealing with and hope you can work closely with them to get the best effort they have is the advise I have for you on suspension work. After doing my own research if I had bare 250r shocks to send out with no chassis I would most likely send them to the company in question in this thread, Derisi, or SF. They seem to do the most work with them from what I have found so they probably have the best notes on valving and spring rates which is the end result you are after. The warm and fuzzy feeling is nice, but it doesn't always get you the best work for your money.

[Mrs. SFRacing]

Originally posted by 2-330s
glad you chimed in. my shock works great that Seth rebuilt.

you have had a elka rear off a 660 raptor since the middle of feburary. al would like back. tell Seth to call al and let him know what the scoop is.al has called numerous times and i think andy d. called about it a week or two ago,but still no response. if he can't rebuild it just let us know. if it's junk i can add it to the broken parts of shame bin. lol! i can make some awards out of the junk parts i have.
I cannot seem to locate the correct seal head for the repair of this shock,the one i ordered is the wrong height he may be better to go to ebay and get a slightly used shock and transfer his springs and valing to the said used shock,do you have his #?inbox it too me please. sorry for the thread jack!
thanks
ken

pep
easy to tune for the layman like me

elka
hard to learn great shock

tcs
have seen other people have good sucess with them. rode a quad with them thought they were fine.

works
seem to be a good upgrade but entery level and not for a serious racer.(i have not tried the black widows)

all are much better than stock but i like my peps

I cannot seem to locate the correct seal head for the repair of this shock,the one i ordered is the wrong height he may be better to go to ebay and get a slightly used shock and transfer his springs and valing to the said used shock,do you have his #?inbox it too me please.

[ronny]

I personally know Mark and if you knew him you would know he likes to joke a lot, he still makes fun of me for riding my 250r. I mean come on do you really think he dosent love 250s he did make it big working on them?, and me and my buddies as well make fun of him as if hes one speed lol, hes always all over the place. I live right about 5 minutes from his shop and am always there, he is a very nice guy and has always treated me with much respect. Even cutting me deals on alot when id buy a couple gallons of vp he'd just fill up my 5 gal tank, guess you just gotta have certain sence of humor sometimes.
Ronny

[socal]

Thats the nice thing about business,if you dont like the way you are being treated,you can simply take your hard earned cash somewhere else!Im with the origional poster,yea he might have been joking but when somebody talks to me in that manner and he dont know me,and I dont know his personality,I would have been offended as well.It gives off a sense of cockiness and "you are just the little guy".Yes he may be good at what he does,yes he may be a nice guy(to those who know him)but hes not the only one!

[2-330s]

pm sent

[JHF219]

I have been to Baldwins shop, they were very nice to sit and talk to and BS with. I would buy from them without question. mark is VERY good at what he does. but on that note, SF Racing has always been my shock builder and will always continue to be!! Seth is very helpful, has the best pricing, and knows shocks!! He is also very fun to cut up with at the track, on the phone, on facebook where ever !! As a matter of fact they have my ZPS shocks now doing a massive surgery on them!!

Forman