Baja 1000 winning Roll 250R pics!The Legend!!! [Archive]

Grande Huevos

05-11-2011, 09:25 PM

Originally posted by socal
NorCal.Its the Stanton location in Orange County!Not sure on the year?That terrain down in Mexico beats the crap out of those machines,been there many times!Troy,me being in Cali,and pretty much have ridden nothing but desert,(MX & sand too)I too sometimes dream of riding XC coarses back east!:blah: yeah its funny how that works isnt it! im a ks boy myself and the only sand iv ever ridin is wynoka oklahoma and i instantly fell in love w it! Dont get me wrong i love riding woods and what not but the sand is just so open and smooth!, its the fn S**T !! My favorite part is rippin up and down the bigger dunes and throwin a roost at the top then wheelieing back down. I dream of the day i get the chance to take my R out to the cali or oregon dunes!!!

D Bergstrom

05-11-2011, 10:38 PM

That 250R is awesome. I would love to someday build a full Roll 250R desert racer. Maybe one of these days!

Originally posted by wilkin250r
Oh, man. Desert racing is gawd awful. I live in Nevada, I grew up riding this terrain. Gawd Awful.

XC racing is tough, but when you get in the technical sections, you're not going 60mph+, so if you crash, you don't die. Desert racing is almost all high-speed.

MX racing is tough, but it's what, like 15 minutes? Desert racing is HOURS.

And the dust. dear god, the dust...

Ughh, I so want to race a 500 mile race now! I suck at short course stuff, I don't even get warmed up until I ride at least 40 miles! If you want technical desert racing, try a District 37 race in Southern California, be lucky to average 30 mph in one of those. I love racing in the desert, couldn't ever imagine my life without it. Nothing like riding a 100 mile section and being out in the middle of nowhere, with just little arrows to tell you where to go. Awesome feeling after riding all your sections and get to the end and cross that finish line, talk about accomplishment! The sad part is, everytime I get to that finish line, I wish I could keep going!

Doug

norcalduner

05-12-2011, 12:14 AM

Yup, I do several of District 37's Hare Scrambles each year in Johnson Valley and know exactly what you mean Doug. Even did some of the night races during the summer. Its so much fun that I skip the 4 hr drive to the dunes and do the 8 hr drive to the high desert instead .... one way hahaha.

xcwes

05-12-2011, 12:39 AM

Ide love to take that thing wide open in yhe desert!

socal

05-12-2011, 01:29 AM

I can honestly say,the terrain used in Baja is even more brutal than whats used in U.S. desert races,thats why I look at tihis machine and its riders with such respect!I heard a trophy truck driver describe the course one year he said "hell on earth,,,hell on earth!"..."gotta love it!!!"...

DoonRider

05-12-2011, 01:01 PM

Cool pictures and post -thanks.

D Bergstrom

05-12-2011, 04:22 PM

Originally posted by norcalduner
Even did some of the night races during the summer.

The only D37 race I have ever done was a night race last year. Should have brought a rock crawler instead of my quad, and they said that one was "quad friendly", Still had a blast though!

Originally posted by socal
I can honestly say,the terrain used in Baja is even more brutal than whats used in U.S. desert races,thats why I look at tihis machine and its riders with such respect!

I don't know about that. Never actually raced in Baja but have been down there multiple times for races and have seen the terrain. Nevada has some desert that will make you cringe! I remember the 2006 Vegas to Reno with a 20 mile silt section, that was fun! Nevada does have some brutal desert.

Doug

troybilt

05-12-2011, 04:54 PM

You guys with experience, can you feel me briefly what it would take to field a team to a Vegas to Reno Race? or similar? I've been thinking about this for along time. I just don't know anything about it. Maybe there is a website that would help??

Anyone interested in fielding a 250r team? :D

socal

05-12-2011, 05:05 PM

I would LOVE to do something like that!I know there were similar events.One would have to map it out carefully,you would not want to ride through a Indian Reservation uninvited and end up getting scalped!:eek: Now your going to have me look into this!

jbltz450

05-12-2011, 05:06 PM

I am down to ride in it but don't have a capable 250R together right now.

wilkin250r

05-12-2011, 05:07 PM

I've never actually done one of those races, so I can't tell you about fielding a team. But I've ridden the terrain, so I can tell you a little bit about machine setup.

You'd think that MX racing is the toughest on shocks because of the hard landings, but you're in the AIR before that, so the shocks have a chance to extend all the way. That's why you can get away with a zero preload setup and lower ride height. In desert racing you're hitting ruts, whoops, and bumps at high speed, but you're on the ground all the time. The shocks don't have a chance to extend, so you generally have higher ride heights to get the shock travel you need.

jbltz450

05-12-2011, 05:07 PM

I am pretty sure you have to have chase team....rewound stator for lights, and a helluva lot of fuel.....

troybilt

05-12-2011, 05:51 PM

Go on, what else? We can build just about any bike, suspension-wise.

How much pre-run time is needed?

D Bergstrom

05-12-2011, 05:56 PM

Troy,

I can post up some info tonight when I have some more time about what it takes to race Vegas to Reno. Might be kind of long though, so don't know if you want me to post it here or PM you.

Doug

troybilt

05-12-2011, 06:06 PM

Doug I appreciate it either way. ...or if its easier you can email me.

crownlineboats@hotmail.com

wilkin250r

05-12-2011, 07:37 PM

Originally posted by jbltz450
and a helluva lot of fuel.....

Oh, indeed. I've seen some that modify their tanks with extra reservoirs on the side and hold 5 gallons or more.

Mony25

05-12-2011, 07:39 PM

post it if u would i to am really interested in this it is one of my life goals to race the 1000. However i know nothing about it other than what i read in dirt wheels once a year. and that dont tell much other than results and incidents during the race.

woodsracer144

05-12-2011, 08:09 PM

Originally posted by hawaiiysr
What does it say below PT on the cylinder? Refine?

I see racing on my droid when I zoom in

DnB_racing

05-12-2011, 08:31 PM

Originally posted by troybilt
Doug I appreciate it either way. ...or if its easier you can email me.

crownlineboats@hotmail.com I just did a quick check ... wow that might take a good chunk of coin to get ready for!! 450 miles and you only have till august to get ready,
how many riders would you have?something like 4 riders at 6 hours each?

please post your ideas for this maybe some site members could help you in some ways, if that's allowed? I know I would help with sending a couple spare parts if I had what you need, anyways keep me posted if you do decide to do this!

D Bergstrom

05-12-2011, 09:50 PM

Alright, here we go, hope this isn't to long. First a little info on Best in the Desert. They have two classes for quads, Pro and Sportsman, then sportsman is split into skill levels, expert and amatuer. Really, the only difference is in Sportsman, you race for a trophy and have a max of three riders. Pro you race for a trophy and money, plus a max of two riders. Before you get excited about racing for money, its not much. The Pro entry for Vegas to Reno for a quad team is around $1,000, if you win, you might get a couple hundred. Yes, $1,000 for just the entry. The entry is just a small part of your expenses, so winning a couple hundred bucks will just help with the fuel bill home. Sportman entry is around $800. There are usually more entires in sportsman, a little cheaper entry and a extra rider to help with costs. That and those Pro guys are just plain fast!

First step for Vegas to Reno is have a perfectly prepped quad. When we would run the entire BITD series, I would rebuild the motor once a year. Would always go through the motor before Vegas to Reno. Before the race I would also replace alot of wear items, new ball joints, tie rod ends, and rear axle bearings. I would also tear the quad down the the frame and inspect everything. Regrease everything that needs grease, then add loctite to every bolt when I reassemble. Just wanted the freshest quad possible for the longest race of the year.

Next would be spare parts. Vegas to Reno varies a little very year, anywhere from 450 miles to 600 miles for a one day race. In 2009, it was actually a staged race, 1,000 miles over three days. Best bet is to bring a complete extra quad, that way you have every part you could ever want. Of course, this is unrealistic for alot of people. So at the minimum you would want the following:

Spare tires, as many as you can afford, the 1,000 mile Vegas to Reno we had 6 flats over the three days.

Spare air filters. Need to change them every couple hundred miles or so.

Spare ball joints, tie rods, tie rod ends, brake levers, clutch levers, plus stuff like bolts, cotter pins, duct tape, zip ties, etc. Every tool you would ever need to work on your quad.

Chase trucks are next. Vegas to Reno is a pretty easy race to chase, most of the pits are right off the highway to Reno. You could probably do two thirds of the race with one truck. It only gets tricky for the last three pits, you can not leave one and beat the quad to any pit, so you need three chase trucks, or a friend that can give you fuel. So figure a min of two trucks (plus a friend)to chase with, loaded with all your spare parts and someone to drive them, plus fuel for them. Oh yeah, stocked ice chests in them also for riders and pit crews. We have actually went bare bones at some races, no pit help but the riders sometimes. I drive a truck to the next pit, wait for the rider, pit the quad, he gets off, I get on the quad and off I go, and he gets in the truck and goes to the next pit to meet me and we do it all over again. Not ideal, but what ever you have to do to race!

My race 450R gets about 15 miles to the gallon, so for a 500 mile race you need just about 35 gallons of fuel, call it 40 so you have some extra. We doubled that for the 1,000 mile one, brought 80 gallons of fuel for just the quad. We had four chase trucks for that race, just think of the fuel bill for that one!

We would always change riders everytime we stopped for fuel, figured that way we could always keep a fresh rider on the quad. Pits are anywhere from 15 to 60 miles apart, 60 miles is about the max distance you have to be able to make on fuel. Depending on our race strategy, we would sometimes have to ride 80 to 100 miles, just depends on how the pits are located.

Alright, tired of typing, I will post some more in a little bit.

Doug

norcalduner

05-12-2011, 09:55 PM

A little food for thought .....

Its not ALL just about money and bike setup. Need to mentally and physically prepare yourself too because you will never feel so alone in your life amidst such an unforgiving environment for hours and miles on end .

Just a little perspective ..... it takes roughly 11 hrs to drive your car 1000 miles in a straight line and be in the speed limit. Well, most people can't even deal with riding/driving in a car for more than 6 hrs just to go to their riding area ..... and most of that is freeway i.e. straight, and flat, with radio and climate control, eating snacks, napping at times blah, blah, blah, etc.

And imagine riding by yourself ..... sucking up dust, trying not to get lost, trying not to get hit by buggies/trucks, riding in whooped out sections that look like triples, and SILT beds that will literally swallow you up whole, and dealing with flats or breakdowns with limited tools, no help for hours and almost NO shade.

At a certain point, you are just going thru the motions and constantly fighting that nagging feeling of why you are doing it in the first place ..... and at this point, you are not even racing anymore but merely surviving.

BUT, regardless of what I mentioned above, it is still totally worth it and the acomplishment of simply finishing one is unparalleled.

socal

05-12-2011, 10:06 PM

Nice post NorCal....But just imagine the feeling you get when you complete something like that!Also a life long memory,imagine a few weeks later,after your sore muscles heal up,looking back and thinking,dam that was fun,crazy but fun!

Michael88R

05-12-2011, 10:49 PM

I helped pit for my uncle in the vegas to reno last year. It was fun. He took first in Expert Ironman. Finished over 600 miles in 12 hrs. 17 mins. We had a great day. Only one flat and no break downs. My uncle is taking it very seriously. He works out 6 to 10 times a week. He is 49, but in great shape. His quad has been beat pretty hard, so he's prepping a new one for the V to R this year. Just ask Doug about the cracks in this frame.

We had 3 chase trucks. It was go, go, go all day long. It actually went by really fast. It was an awesome experience. Can't wait for this years race. Are you running it this year Doug?

troybilt

05-13-2011, 07:18 AM

Thanks for the information Doug and Norcal!!

I have no preconceived notions that I could waltz down there and start racing... This is something I want to do before I'm too old to do it, and my wife is completely on board. I've already been saving some parts here and there to build a bike. Originally was going to build a 700XX, but after seeing this Roll 250r I thought that would be really cool to bring back the champ and race a 250r. (I don't even know if the rules allow that or not...)

I agree totally that you have to be in superb physical and mental shape, and the bike must be in perfect condition, but even then crap happens...

My goals would be to get a bike built and get down there and do some riding and get a feel for desert conditions, before I even think about entering any race.... I can only imagine what you think about some slap stick from KS wanting to come ride the desert... :rolleyes: :)

Can you run GPS units or is it all well marked trails? I was wondering if you could get a stator that could power a Lowrance Baja GPS unit or is it worth it?

Any one remember Ben Sclimme's (not sure how to spell that) 250r's? and Team Kwik? I posted these on the other site awhile back.

http://www.trx250r.net/trx250rforums/index.php?showtopic=4777

http://www.trx250r.net/trx250rforums/index.php?showtopic=4611

D Bergstrom

05-13-2011, 05:34 PM

Originally posted by Michael88R
Are you running it this year Doug?

As of right now, doesn't look like it, unless I can find someone to team up with. Thought about racing in Ironman against your uncle, but I don't think I am in good enough shape currently to ride that far by myself.

As far as fitness, yes, you do have to have a little fitness to race in the desert, or any type of racing for that matter. Don't think though that you have to be the poster child for fitness though, unless you plan on racing Pro and going for the overall. You can still be a little flabby and do good in Sportsman! Heck, you can be alot flabby and still do good in Sportsman! Put it this way, if you go and trail ride for an hour and are tired after, I would skip the desert race. As long as you can ride a good pace for a while, you could easily enter and finish a desert race, winning might be a different story, but you should have no problem getting to the finish. There are people from all over the country that come out and race, even from other countries. Don't think that just because you have never ridden in the desert you can't do it. Just ride your pace and you will get to the finish.

The good thing about desert racing, it is a "run what you brung class", meaning there really are no rules concerning quads, just has to be a quad. 450R, 250R, 700XX, doesn't matter, they all race against each other. Doesn't even have to be a produciton quad, you could race a hybrid if you want. I have never seen a 250R at a BITD race since I have been racing. (Started in 2006) Think it would be a cool sight, just not sure I would want to ride one, the four strokes are just so easy to ride for endless miles. Well, who am I kidding, I would race one if I had the chance!

BITD does have what they call a "fun run" a month or so before the race. They only have them for the bikes/quads race on the same course as the cars/trucks. Gives everyone a chance to drive the course. Problem is for us quad and bike guys, is you have to prerun in a street legal vehicle, can't use your quad/bike. I have never preran for any BITD race I have ever raced in, never wanted to bomb my daily driver through the desert. Never though I was at a huge disadvantage, most bike/quad guys don't prerun either.

Troy, if you really want to ride the desert, come out to Vegas some time and I will let you borrow a quad and I can show you what it is like. I can take you on some race courses around here so you can get a feel of what you are in for. You know you need a vacation anyway! haha. Also, you know if you ever put a team together who your first call should be to! The Parker 250 is usually the first weekend in January every year, by far my favorite race of the year. Would be a good one to try for the first time. Three 80 mile loops with only two pits, easy to provide pit support for. The course is a blast.

I think that about covers everything that I can think of, at least for racing in the states. Baja is a different animal alltogether. More difficult to pit for, could need 5 or 6 chase trucks depending on the race, course may not be marked as well, racing in an area you have never been in before, just need alot more support and funding. I consider myself an experienced desert racer, but I think racing for the first time in Baja would even make me a little nervous. Would love to give it a shot someday though. There is one really bad thing about desert racing though...once you try it you will be hooked!

Doug

protrax

05-13-2011, 05:58 PM

Troy if this is somthing you are seriously considering then I am in bro I would love a long distance battle It comes down to Heart !

troybilt

05-13-2011, 07:09 PM

I'm seriously considering it, been wanting to race desert for as long as I can remember... I'm a ways off from having a bike put together. I guess I could build Elly into a desert bike, but not too keen on that. I rather build another one for the desert. If I get the rest of the this Arens bike parted there is another LSR Baja framed bike for sale local that would make a good start.

I really appreciate the information Doug, and I might hit you up on that, that sounds like a blast to me... I get out to Vegas from time to time for work too, I could make it a weekend trip. I think that Parker 250 would be a good idea to get your feet wet sort of speak before jumping into a longer race. I've got about 4 wks of vacation each year, so I could make something work for 1 race a year at least.

Training: We do have a dry river bed about 4 hours drive from here, that is 120 miles long not stop. That would be a good test of endurance I think, I do alot of cycling and mountain biking which can't hurt.... I'm in decent shape, I used to be in really good shape until I got married.. :D... getting old and soft... haha...

socal

05-13-2011, 07:17 PM

I would be in as well.Im 38 but hit the gym 4-5 days a week and mountain bike as well.Kinda cool this thread sparked some interrest in a desert race! I have a great idea for a race bike,we could sneak the posted Baja winning bike out of Cycle Parts West!:devil: Whos game?:devil:

danhung11

05-13-2011, 08:49 PM

I'm listening T...

We building some desert setups next year? :D XC two years ago, MX this year, looks like it's either a drag bike or Desert Trails bike!

Thanks for posting sweet bike up! Just makes you wonder how many more of these beauties are left...

D Bergstrom

05-14-2011, 01:00 PM

Originally posted by troybilt
I think that Parker 250 would be a good idea to get your feet wet sort of speak before jumping into a longer race.

Parker is a pretty easy race, not much time is needed either, just a two day event, usually the weekend after New Years. Bikes, quads, and UTV's only. Sign ups on Friday, race on Saturday. Quads and bikes don't get to prerun, so nothing to worry about there. Sunday though all the car/trucks get to prerun (they race about a month later) so you can walk through the parking lot of the motel and check out all the prerunners Saturday night.

Originally posted by danhung11
Thanks for posting sweet bike up! Just makes you wonder how many more of these beauties are left...

I have wondered this myself. I wish Roll would still make a desert chassis, I would start saving my money now! Don't know if I would want to race it at Vegas to Reno, but Parker would be cool to race a 250R at.

I have been into desert racing for over 20 years, but didn't get into the quad part of it at all untill 6 or 7 years ago. By then the 250R's were gone. How many 250R's would actually race the Baja 1000 back in the day? I know for a while, I don't think quads were to big down there. I had a college roommate that used to get one of the atv mags and I remember an article from the mid 90's that someone won on a entry level sport quad. (I want to say it was a 300ex, but not sure.) I know back in 2005, 2006 you would see alot of quad entries in BITD. At the 2007 Vegas to Reno we blew a motor 100 miles in and finished 18th in expert, last in the class. Nowadays you won't even have 18 quads from all the classes combined.

Troy, I know you have a bunch of old mags, any of them have Baja coverage from around 2000 or 2001? I know in 2000 they did the Baja 2000, basically down to Cabo and back. Wonder what quad won that one. I guess I need to do some searching around for old results online.

Doug

D Bergstrom

05-14-2011, 01:54 PM

Alright, answered my own question, the Baja 2000 was won by a DS650.

I forgot about Trackside Photo, these guys have been taking pictures forever. Below is a lnk to all the different years they have photos for:

http://www.tracksidephoto.com/gallery/index.php?category=gallery

In 2001, there was some pics of the 1A quad that looked very similar to the pictures of the 250R socal posted in the shop. Hard to tell from the pics, but I bet it is the same quad with a couple of changes. (Hood is for sure different.)

I just spent some time going through some of the pics from the 1000 in 01, 02, and 03. Kind of cool seeing all the different quads that raced. A few 250r's, but all makes are in there. 400ex's, DS650's, Raptor's, even quite a few utility quads. Some of the races in the 80's have pics of three wheelers in them also. Look through the later years of BITD pics and you will see myself and my teammates in there. (2006 - Q73, 2007 - 407, after 2008 - 437.) I am sure I will spend the next hour or two looking through the old quad pics from all the years.

Doug

troybilt

05-14-2011, 02:55 PM

Doug, in 93 Dirt wheels mag staff almost won the baja 1000 on a bone stock 300EX, they added number plates and baja lights to it. Even ran the stock balloonish tires.... That was the first year of the 300ex and they wanted to prove a point. I forget what kept them from winning, it was something trivial. I have almost every DW mag from the very first 1980 DW to present, I'm missing a few mags here an there but I've got one of the most extensive collections around. There are tons of baja articles back then, and the 250r dominated from 1981 until the late 90's... almost 20 years... Curtis Sparks might have won 1 back in the early 80's on a 200x... crazy!..

That's what sparked my interest in desert racing... I loved the tricked out desert bikes from back in the early 90's... There was a blaster that almost one in 1994... it was heavily modified... if I'd ever get a new scanner I'd scan those in for you or send you some jpegs of the articles... I do also have some duplicate issues, if any have the baja coverage in them I'd gladly send you those for you collection and reference.

I've been keeping and eye out for a team Kwik aluminum gas tank for a desert build. They were 6 gallons!

D Bergstrom

05-14-2011, 04:46 PM

That had to be the one I remembered. Didn't they put the neon chassis lights on it also? The only thing I really remember about the story was something about the main lights going out and just the neon lights working, had to use those to get to the next pit or something like that. I couldn't imagine racing a bone stock 300ex in a desert race, just goes to show where quad racing has advanced to.

I would love to see those old articles when you get a new scanner. If you do have duplicate issues, that would be cool also, I would gradly send you some cash for mailing them.

Yeah, I think this is it, pretty sure my next project will be a Lobo desert racer, just need to finish my 700XX's up first, so should be ready to start in a year or so! Just when I think I am on my last project, a new idea always comes up!:D

Doug

Mony25

05-14-2011, 05:27 PM

the biggest reason they didnt win on the 300ex was dennis cox wrecked then he got lost shortly after he wreaked he accidently shut his headlights off and didnt know it thought he had a short so he slowly rode to highway and later found out that he had just shut the lights off lol. they took second to the roll brothers on a banshee by 38 minutes.

efi2

05-14-2011, 11:29 PM

wow there are pic of my bike '93 baja 500
all these years later funny.
just got it back together (not totally).
just raced primm nv. big 6 gp.
last race was 2003.before that '95

MANIAK 88R

05-18-2011, 02:29 AM

Has anyone took a good look at a Houser frame? IMO they are equally as strong as a Roll Baja frame. I have thought about a desert race for a long time. I have a few friends that race in the desert, class 1 , class 10, rhino, trophy lite, and whatever class a baja bug is.

My old landlord Rick Ellison has had a few cars and won a few races down in Baja. It is kinda cool that when I bought the baja video game for my xbox, Ellison's millenium car is featured in the game. I spent many of night helping to prep that very car or the prerunner before a race.

My riding style is very fitting to desert racing....WFO.
I'd love to run a V to R someday but it would take like $20k And that is only for the race, not counting the bike to race with.
That is a crap load of coin just to put a notch on the bucket list.

D Bergstrom

05-18-2011, 05:38 PM

Originally posted by MANIAK 88R
I'd love to run a V to R someday but it would take like $20k And that is only for the race, not counting the bike to race with.
That is a crap load of coin just to put a notch on the bucket list.

Vegas to Reno does not require anywhere near that much to race. You could easily race it on a budget of 5k, as long as you live in a nearby state. If you live on the east coast or in another country, yeah, its gonna be a bit to alot more in travel expenses. That wouldn't include the quad, but it would include prep of the quad. (Unless the quad was a basket case and needed alot of work.) I have raced it four times, I bet we haven't spent more then 20k combined for all of them, but I live in Vegas. Don't have to drive to the race, just have to drive home.

Doug

MANIAK 88R

05-18-2011, 09:05 PM

OK, I am guestemating but this was my thinking. I live in central cal so Vegas is about an 8 hour drive from here, then to Reno, then about 10 hours home from reno. With three vehicles (one of which towing the toy hauler) that's going to be 1150 miles x 3 = 3450 miles for the support equipment. So about $1600 in fuel for the support vehicles. Then 40 gallons of race gas will be about$1000. Food / drink for 6 people about $1000. Spare tires and wheels about $2000. Spare arms, axles, chain/sprockets, shocks, stator, engine, pipe, stem, bumpers, pegs, radiator, etc, etc, etc..... about $10,000. That's $14,600 plus entry fee and just in case money. So I was figuring around $20,000 plus two spec'd out 250R's.

I know that these figures are high but I am looking at what it would cost for a bare minimum top notch team.

Realistically though, why race unless you have a chance to win?

D Bergstrom

05-18-2011, 10:07 PM

My cost was just to race Vegas to Reno. Entry, fuel, food, place to stay, prep of the quad. Doesn't include the cost of the quad or any spare parts. That is stuff I already have since I race anyway. Yeah, you are right, if you had to go out and buy everything for just one race, its going to get really expensive really quick. Then again, if you do only plan on doing one race you can sell it all after and get a good amount back.

Minimum to me is bring your race quad and a few extra parts and that is it. The key to any long distance race is to run with the least amount of problems. The fastest team doesn't always win. You don't "need" all those extra parts to race. The first year we raced I had hardly had any spares. Had three complete sets of tires for spares and a few misc odds and ends, that was it. Finished third in the amateur class. Only problem was four flat tires during the day. If we were better riders with more experience, I fully believe we could have won. Sure you can bring every spare part in the world, but if you have to use any of, your chances for a win just went out the window. Have to ride smart.

If you have a complete extra quad, you don't need all those spare parts either. You have every part you could ever need on the extra quad. Since you will have one or two teammates, hopefully two of you own the same quad, there are your extra parts. Chances are you will racing in the sportsman class, everyone you race against will be on a limited budget. I bet you would be pretty surprised at what people actually bring to a desert race, us desert racers are cheap! I have seen people run Vegas to Reno on close to stock quads and do pretty well. You would be surprised on how well you can do on a limited budget.

I guess my point is sure you can spend that much to race Vegas to Reno, but you sure don't have to to be successful. Now if I was going to race the Baja 1000, I would bring everything you mentioned plus more. That is why I don't race that one, can't afford it!

Doug

MANIAK 88R

05-18-2011, 11:31 PM

I really like the whole desert scene. I think my basis for a quad team is a little out of wack.

I crewed on a class 10 and a class 1 car. The class 10 team was top notch Rick Ellison Motorsports. He had about $1,000,000 invested into his race team. He won his class in the 500 and the 1000, plus V to R, laughlin, etc.

Rick had a Chenowth Millenium class 10, a Jimco class 10, a Ford Ranger full chassis pre runner, an F150 pre runner, a 5-seat dual sport pre runner, and like 5 F350's to haul everything.

So I would guess that you probably don't need a full on race team to run a quad in the V to R race. Then again, I take nearly a full bike in spare parts just when I go to Pismo.

My Laeger bike would be perfect, but .... I won't subject my baby to the harshness of the desert.

I'm sure I can find me a Lonestar or an Arens to beat the hell out of.

troybilt

05-19-2011, 07:26 AM

I like Doug's thinking better...LOL!! :D If its 20K I'd never be able to race. I can't afford that kind of coin on my own.. I'm confident I can build the bike and have extra parts easily enough... I've already got tons of extra parts. This trick for me is getting 3 support vehicles from KS to Vegas... if that many is required? I'd like to race with someone local that wouldn't mind racing a fully prepped 250r so I can leverage one support vehicle hopefully. I have my wife's 110% support so that's half the battle right there... :eek2:

The Parker 250 sounds like a great start. If I'm reading this right more of a desert race that beginners can run?? Is the Parker at night at all? is a full light setup required?

As far as budget bike setup, this is what I've been going over in my mind.

ProX 310 top end, low-mid end ported, PV is budget allows...
Carb: 36mm PWK carb or 35 A/S, got to conserve fuel. 250r's burn fuel worse that 4 strokes
VForce3 reed cage
LSR Baja Frame, Arens or fully gusseted stocker...
Aarms - +3+1 forward aarms, X-tech, Laeger, Roll..
88/89 length swinger - hetrick, LSR, older style roll...
+4 axle RPM
15:38 gearing, 2 extra chains and sprockets
Lance Schoonmaker 6 Gal Aluminum tank
PRM Skids, bumper, grabbar
maxxis razr2 fronts, razr1 rears 3 sets

D Bergstrom

05-19-2011, 09:03 PM

MANIAK 88R, yeah, class 10 and 1 are unlimited classes with huge budgets. I bet just what one of the bigs teams spend on racing the Baja 1000 I could race the entire BITD season on with my quad. I even looked at getting out of racing quads and getting into a limited class, even that is more expensive then racing a quad. Once you get to something with a cage, costs just seem to go up an up.

Troy, the Parker 250 would be a great race for a beginner. It was only the second desert race I ever raced a quad in. Don't have to worry about lights. There is a time limit, so you will be done well before dark regardless. It is a great, fun course, has a little bit of everything.

You don't need three support trucks for Vegas to Reno, but it is nice. At a minimum you need two, then make a friend. Someone can help you at one pit while you help them at another. The good thing about desert racers is they are always willing to help. Even people you are racing against will help if they can. It really is a good group of people.

Your build sounds pretty good. I have found that my 250R with a 330 kit gets about the same mileage as my race 450R. I have noticed mileage really depends on the terrain. Wide open stuff we do a little better. It is the tight and twisty or rough stuff that really sucks down the fuel, the on and off throttle type of stuff. I would have no problem running a 4 gallon tank at Vegas to Reno, although some of the longer sections I might take a extra bottle of fuel with me just in case. Although an aluminum tank would be a cool retro look!

I would even go to a 330 kit for a little extra power. I just run a standard CT 330 kit on my 250R, runs pretty good, but would like to try a PV kit for a little more bottom power. Actually, if I was going to build a 250R now, I would call Allen over at CT and pick his brain. Been talking some to him lately about engine work on my 700XX, that guy knows how to build a reliable desert motor that will make it to the end. Need to pick his brain some about what he use to run on the 250R's he built for Baja next time I talk to him.

I would probably only go with 14:38 gearing also. Figure you already get taller gearing by going to 22" rear tires, an extra tooth on the front sprocket should be plenty. Just playing with a gearing calculator the 14:38 gearing would be close to the same top speed as my race 450R with the gearing I run for the faster courses.

You have me thinking about Parker now, it would be a fun race on a good running 250R. Might have to do a couple of upgrades to my 250R and give it a shot in January, I know I would have a blast. Heck, I could race a stock 400ex at Parker and have a blast!

Doug

wilkin250r

05-20-2011, 06:38 PM

Troy, if you're serious about this, I'm close enough to help out, I'm just a hop, skip, and jump outside of Reno. You can count on me for a Support Vehicle, probably be even two of them (I've got a friend or two in the area).

I don't know if I would be able to actually race and be part of the team. I would love to, believe me, but the training and preparation might be more of a time commitment than I can afford.

troybilt

05-20-2011, 07:23 PM

This is great I appreciate all the support from the 250r community... any other forum and I would have been laughed off the site... :D

I might even be able to get a bike together by Jan for the Parker 250 and my vacation rolls over on Jan 1 so I'd have 5 wks available...

My thinking on the 310 is to error on the side of reliability. I was thinking a prox 310 non pv for a budget motor build. Ported by Neil or Allen for low end. Allen has been building desert motors for 20+ years...

So is a 4 gal tank enough? I was thinking a 6 would be necessary... 4 gal works for me, dry break.... etc...

How would a gusseted stock frame hold up? I might be able to pick up an LSR baja frame for decent $ here locally, preferred.

wilkin250r

05-20-2011, 07:50 PM

Why ported for low end? Desert racing is typically wide open areas and long stretches, I would think a midrange porting at minimum, probably more like mid-top porting. But I've never actually RACED a desert race, so I might be wrong.

troybilt

05-20-2011, 08:09 PM

No particular reason. Just the mags I've read they port low end to midrange on desert so you pull a taller gear when running steady speed and keep the rpms down to lower the vibrations... if that makes any sense. But i have no idea either... makes sense to me to run on the bottom so you're not screaming across the desert wrapped out... again I don't really know. Drag ported or dune ported doesn't sound right to me for a desert bike...

stever250r

05-20-2011, 08:19 PM

Originally posted by troybilt
This is great I appreciate all the support from the 250r community... any other forum and I would have been laughed off the site... :D

I might even be able to get a bike together by Jan for the Parker 250 and my vacation rolls over on Jan 1 so I'd have 5 wks available...

My thinking on the 310 is to error on the side of reliability. I was thinking a prox 310 non pv for a budget motor build. Ported by Neil or Allen for low end. Allen has been building desert motors for 20+ years...

So is a 4 gal tank enough? I was thinking a 6 would be necessary... 4 gal works for me, dry break.... etc...

How would a gusseted stock frame hold up? I might be able to pick up an LSR baja frame for decent $ here locally, preferred.

I know stock frames are a dime a dozen, and you could easily find one local to you..

However, if you do decide to go with a stock frame, I would be more than Happy to Donate the stock frame from my Parts Bike I bought for this endeavor... I havent really looked close to check the overall condition of it, but it doesn't seem horrible.

I dont know if shipping it to you, would be more cost effective than just buying one local to you, but I just wanted to make the offer...

If you want it, you can have it....

D Bergstrom

05-20-2011, 11:37 PM

I have always prefered a low to mid motor for the desert vs mid to top. Reason being is yes, desert racing does involve some high speeds and you will speed time in 5th gear (or 6th gear for a 250R) pinned, but there are very few perfectly straight roads that go on forever. Even the high speed stuff will have corners. Also there are rough sections, hard to go through those with the bike at high rpm to make power. Need that low end to 'blip" that throttle to lighten the front end to clear stuff. Parker has a 10 or so mile section that you wil be in mostly 2nd or 3rd gear, even down to 1st. Best to have an all around motor, I think that is why the four strokes are so popular, have that nice wide powerband. I would for sure call Allen and see what he recomends.

The furthest you have to go at Parker on a tank of fuel is about 55 miles, so I would think a 4 gallon tank would be plenty. As I said before, I get around 15 to 16 mpg with my 250R, but have only raced shorter races on it, mostly twisty and rough stuff. I have never really done a higher speed race on it. If it was me, I would take a extra bottle of fuel in my camelback just in case. (Gatorade bottles work well, we have had to do that a time or two!) The one bad thing about a two stroke in the desert, just can't get fuel from anyone if you run out.

I think you would be fine with a gusseted stock frame. To me, the key to making a frame live is suspension setup. If you are bottoming out all the time, going to put alot of extra stress on it. As long as your suspension is setup well, should have no problem with a stock frame.

Troy, I sent you a PM.

Doug