View Full Version : So I went swiming lol
Figured Id share this one,its good. Was riding last sunday and there is an area at the sandpit I ride where you can ride the 70ft wall of the lake they dredge to keep the sand dust down.
Did it like 20x with no issues, last time I did it somehow or another the quad kicked out from under me and I tumbled down the hill with the quad coming after me. Quad and I fell into the lake and I tried to treat water but it drops off like after 3 feet and due to heavy rains this past few weeks there was like no shore.
So there I am floating along and dragging the quad to the shore, of course it locked up on me. We get it out, tow it home. I drain the oil like 4x and after its finally clean I noticed the (and heres the important part) is now ticking extremely loud like the valves are out of adjustment. I know everythings clean, I rechecked the valves and they are fine.
Ripped it all apart last night-its clean, nothings wrong. No bent or damaged valves, no scored or worn parts, timing chains tight and good, tensioner is fine, piston has proper play in cyl, no play in rod, rings are good, cyl clean not scored, pistons not damaged, valves arent bent. It almost sounds like the timing chain had to much slack but it doesnt, its tight, everything was in time as well...I dont get it. I do have a hotcam, but it was never that loud before.
It sounds almost exactly like this.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d6QeRQ8QuNw&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL
Anyone got a clue? Engines clean, nothings in it, nothing appears damaged and its def a topend valvetrain noise. Just racking my brain to figure it out before something does blow that I mighta missed.
atvextremerider
05-05-2011, 11:52 AM
did you check to see if your exhaust values were lose or anything wrong with them?
OldGuyonaQuad
05-05-2011, 12:05 PM
Sounds like swimmers ear bro ;)
Wish I could help here but you are far more knowledgeable on such subjects then me, thought I would just say thanks for the laugh and g/l with the repair.
Nothing loose or seems wrong at all, I checked everything possible.
Wanted to add:
I had previously only removed 1 exhaust and 1 intake valve but I decided while its apart Ill regrind the valves anyways.
Removed the valves with my compressor and noticed something that never happened before: usually when you compress the springs they go right in and have no issues and you can remove the half moon clips-3 out of the 4 went BANG and released the clips-this never happened before. Im guessing that the valves just mighta been going slightly beyond there limits (although piston isnt scored) or something else relating to those clips. Ive never had them come out with a bang before ever and ive taken the heads of an EX apart like 10x.
That would explain the loud ticking i think. Wont know for sure till I get new gaskets and put it back together tho.
ae13291
05-05-2011, 01:09 PM
if you were removing the locks and it came loose with a bang its possible the valve is bent. if this is the first time you are removing the valves its normal but if you have removed them before then there might be your problem. did you say the engine hydro locked in the water? or did it stall going down the hill before it went into the water?
Locked in the water I think. It honestly happened so quick I forget-it was a blur.
I checked the valves at least 3x by now and they arent bent. My guess is that the keepers (moon clips) went past there point of travel slightly. Every other time Ive taken apart this head (4x now its a long story lol) they came out with ease except for this time.
They go in/out of the valve guides with no problems. Bent they arent, that Im positive on. If they had bent the piston (due to the 11:1 comp I run) would have obvious scoring marks and it doesnt. What Im thinking and like I said in the previous post is the valves became out of adjustment due to the keepers lodging to far in somehow.
Im gonna compare my valves to a set of known good ones in a day or so when i grab them from my buddy and then Ill know for sure I guess.
Dont forget that the engine violently stopped and I was probably 2nd or 3rd gear flying along till I hit the water. So anythings possible. I didnt push that much water out of the cyl either, maybe 1/8 of a cup, rest was all in the crankcase and it wasnt that much it seemed (since i still had about 2 qts come out when I changed it)
ae13291
05-05-2011, 01:41 PM
if i had to take a guess, you probobly did not hydro lock the motor, it would have been alot more nasty if you did, bent rod, shattered piston, pulled head studs etc. are your timing chain guides worn?
Nope, nothings worn or damaged at all except for the valve keepers coming off harder.
It was locked, I tried once to crank it and it didnt move. My guess is since I towed it out and drove home 2 hours later all the water settled to the bottom of the engine.
2001400exrida
05-05-2011, 02:19 PM
double...no triple check your cam chain and cam sprocket. my sprocket was loose and it ticked like this, then it got louder and louder and then BOOM!
shredded head, cam, sprocket and head cover is what i ended up with.
honda400ex2003
05-05-2011, 02:43 PM
dude you just need a bigger snorkel for the diving trips.
like we discussed, if its not a valve i think you are good to go. i dont think that it bend the rod.
soak the cam chain in oil over night, check all of the links afterward. if they are good, you should be fine there along with the tensioner that you checked over already too. :D
haha that blows man, you work fast though, ill give you that.
side note: howd the tests come out for you?
steve
2001 I checked its tight as can be which is good and I checked the nuts holy hell were they on there good.
@Steve: work fast lol, I had it all apart after playing with checking it in maybe 2 hours? Have an exam tomorrow and monday, dreading both but Im sure Ill do fine.
01boneless
05-05-2011, 07:51 PM
hey cjm :) my 400ex has done ever since a ive had it the mechcanic went through the top end put a new chain and tetioner adjusted the valves and all and when i got it back i noticed it (sounds like the vid almost) so i took it back and he said it was ok so yaa lol
Boneless, just baffles me since it was much quieter before.
01boneless
05-05-2011, 08:32 PM
Originally posted by CJM
Boneless, just baffles me since it was much quieter before.
haha i know mine realy annoies me :scary:
ae13291
05-05-2011, 09:05 PM
sure does not sound normal, mine does not sound no where near that it mine is beat to sh it
IDK, I just dont know. Right now its apart and Im waiting for my gaskets to come so lets see what happens when I put it together.
I found nothing wrong, no play in anything, no obvious marks inside or wear, no missing pieces, nothing broken. Connecting rod has no play, piston has proper play when cyl is on, rings ok, cyl isnt scored and neither is piston, valves dont appear to be bent or busted or nicked, piston top is not scratched/gouged liek valves hit it, no dirt in the engine, oils clean. Rockers are clean too, and move freely. Everything seems fine.
Like I said-all I found was when i took apart the valves the valve keepers literally popped out with a bang-they have never done that and I musta had this head apart 2x now and my buddies 5-6x. The all came out easy.
jake"08"400
05-05-2011, 09:53 PM
Maybe after your quads engine(that I'm sure was scalding hot) hit that cool water it bent are change the dense of the metal (aluminum) somehow. Idk if it's possible but I don't see how it couldn't be. Just a thought but maybe I'm talking out of my mind:eek2:
honda400ex2003
05-05-2011, 09:56 PM
i didnt think of that. coulda warped the cylinder and made it oval. i cant believe i missed that, good call jake!
steve
I doubt it bent the cylinder out of shape, it woulda had more play than usual with the piston in there when I checked. Good idea tho, I didnt think to measure it-ill mic it tomorrow.
Even so it would be knocking and it isnt.
trailrider894
05-05-2011, 10:45 PM
This is exactly why i always run a kill switch... :/ i've had some close call's also. I really would check stuff like the decompressor thingy majig on there... Weird stuff happens. I would check everything you think it couldn't possibly be....
Ntensweapon
05-05-2011, 11:08 PM
Check your cam chain sliders. The sides often crack. That happened to my bike and it sounded like the one in the video.
ae13291
05-06-2011, 02:57 PM
i doubt it bent the cylinder. the 400ex uses a steel sleeve. but lets just say your sleeve is out of shape then the engine will quiet down once it warms up
matts27
05-06-2011, 06:08 PM
Just a thought, when water is put into a hot cylinder it vaporizes at first. When this happens it can free up and release carbon build up along the valve train and cylinder. Just wondering when you tore it down if you had flakes of carbon on the valve train/exhaust valve area. Also, if it was my motor I'd seriously consider getting new valve springs. I wouldn't trust the compression rate of the springs anymore due to the sudden cooling shock of going in the drink. I don't own a spring compression gauge as I view valve springs even at 100$ for 4 for the EX as realitively cheap and if the motor is torn down and new cam going in it goes with it.
The water in the cylinder cleaning a motor is an old school mechanic trick to getting rid of carbon. Tried it, used on chevy 350's and know it works.
Just my 2 cents and hope you figure it out, Take care, Matt
The engine was already very clean to begin with, always has been since Ive had it too-very little build up and deposits. I also made sure it was clean when I rebuilt it about a year ago.
I just rechecked the valves, all of them compress very easily and the valve keepers do not violently bang out like they did when I first checked it. Im glad I made sure of it now. I also checked a good known head and valves, my valves arent bent thats for sure and the other heads valves compress properly as well.
Like I said earlier-Im thinking the valves were slightly out of adjustment on the head itself b/c the keepers were holding them back. It ran maybe a total of 15 mins this way and I found no visable damage so i think Im good. Only time will tell when i get the gaskets and redo the top end, but I just cant find anything else wrong at all.
Im gonna invest in a good killswitch. I have one that was wired wrong when i got the bike I might try and make work. It interrupts the coil right?
trailrider894
05-06-2011, 10:35 PM
Originally posted by CJM
The engine was already very clean to begin with, always has been since Ive had it too-very little build up and deposits. I also made sure it was clean when I rebuilt it about a year ago.
I just rechecked the valves, all of them compress very easily and the valve keepers do not violently bang out like they did when I first checked it. Im glad I made sure of it now. I also checked a good known head and valves, my valves arent bent thats for sure and the other heads valves compress properly as well.
Like I said earlier-Im thinking the valves were slightly out of adjustment on the head itself b/c the keepers were holding them back. It ran maybe a total of 15 mins this way and I found no visable damage so i think Im good. Only time will tell when i get the gaskets and redo the top end, but I just cant find anything else wrong at all.
Im gonna invest in a good killswitch. I have one that was wired wrong when i got the bike I might try and make work. It interrupts the coil right?
Yep, just put it on the coil lead and then ground it somewhere.
Think that was the issue, it wasnt grounded.
four16
05-11-2011, 05:51 PM
is it possible the top end isnt getting any or enough oil? lack of oil pressure, clogged line or filter could cause a tapping noise from the top end.
Def not the case, even when i did drain it the topend had plenty of oil pooled up there still.
Im thinking I didnt change the oil enough and it was getting steam build up due to some water still in there.
2001400exrida
05-12-2011, 02:42 PM
usually you only have to worry about sludge and metal shavings if you don't change the oil enough. I know guys that change their oil once a year! crazy people, especially on a 400ex!
^ Yea I changed mine always after like 4-6 rides (20-30 hours). Thing is tho the gunk that came out hardly resembled oil. It was more like sludge and gritty of course due to the sand pit I was in.
IDK lol Ill figure it out.
honda400ex2003
05-15-2011, 08:41 PM
any updates? I know you were struggling with gaskets, did you get anywhere with them?
steve
Waiting on the ebay store I bought from to get back to me. Its the weekend so I wasnt expecting much and havent gotten an answer back. The picture was the right item but what they sent me wasnt
When I finally get it back together I hope it sounds better! before it sounded like a sewing machine.
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