Lets talk about Airbox design

[troybilt]

Has anyone ever thought of going with a round style "vortex" airbox on a 250r? Similar to like what they run on RZR's and Diesels for that matter? only smaller obviously...

There is some pretty cool tech out there on vortex airboxes, that accelerate the airflow into the filter, buy using turbo style fins... no moving parts, just the shape of the fins create a vortex that keeps dirt and sand from entering while providing fresh charges of air. I'll post some links when I get a chance for your parusal.

[wilkin250r]

There was a well-known builder that did an article on ATV intake tracts before, but I can't remember the name, so I was never able to find the article.

I'm really interested in it.

[Honda 250r 001]

They use them a lot on diesel tractors. They must work as they run in the dust and dirt all day long and yet the filters actually stay pretty clean.
Problem is, they are kinda bulky arent they?

[troybilt]

UMP was the ones I was thinking of, but there are several out there...

[troybilt]

2

[troybilt]

They are actually pretty small in size for the RZR, I think the UMP for the RZR is like 4 or 5" in diameter and only 9-10 in long. I'm going to contact UMP to see if they will be interesting in helping me design one... They flow WAYY better... and still have dust protection, vs. open element.

[woodsracer144]

Originally posted by Honda 250r 001
They must work as they run in the dust and dirt all day long and yet the filters actually stay pretty clean.


they work but they dont keep the filters clean at all.. I've worked/ lived on farms all my life and they things are nasty when you pull them out.. some times i wonder how and why the damb thing was still running!

[troybilt]

I too work and lived on a farm, and I was an engineer for CNH in New Holland, PA, and did design and test for the flagship combines division. Those filters get dirty because they are in the nastiest dirtiest enviroment, I can think of. And they work rather well for that application. Nothing worse than Milo/maze or wheat dust from a chopper/spreader.

[jcs003]

interesting thought. do you have any specifics on the mechanism? also, is a cross-section of this we can analyze? im an engineer in the road construction and mining industries and our machines see hell and high water. so filters of all applications see horrible conditions.

[Honda 250r 001]

Originally posted by woodsracer144
they work but they dont keep the filters clean at all.. I've worked/ lived on farms all my life and they things are nasty when you pull them out.. some times i wonder how and why the damb thing was still running!

Have you ever tried pulling one off and running it and seeing how much dirt gets into a tractor filter? Its instane, you cant clean em fast enough. They do a pretty dang good job at cutting the ammount of dirt that goes into a filter.

[troybilt]

Originally posted by jcs003
interesting thought. do you have any specifics on the mechanism? also, is a cross-section of this we can analyze? im an engineer in the road construction and mining industries and our machines see hell and high water. so filters of all applications see horrible conditions.

Here is a better picture of the filter, but I've seen them on the RZRs with a K&N style filter, but the key is the round airbox with the vortex ring.

As the air is sucked in the fins cause the air to circulate in the airbox, centrifigual force causes the debris to swirl around the outside towards the airbox and not the filter. Also, the "tornado-ing" effect of the air being sucked in increases the velocity, more importantly the efficiency of the intake system. Pretty slick actually....

[troybilt]

This shows the K&N filter vs. the generic paper filter...

http://www.kartek.com/Product/AirFilters/UMP.html

[jcs003]

i see. the air enters through the port and rotates around the circumference of the air box. i think i got that correct.:confused:

this in turn will keep the filter cleaner longer. the added benefit of the smoother higher velocity charge will increase power.

so when are you testing it out troy?

[woodsracer144]

Originally posted by troybilt
I too work and lived on a farm, and I was an engineer for CNH in New Holland, PA, and did design and test for the flagship combines division. Those filters get dirty because they are in the nastiest dirtiest enviroment, I can think of. And they work rather well for that application. Nothing worse than Milo/maze or wheat dust from a chopper/spreader.

amen to that. but im just saying they dont stay clean so if you made this work i dont want that one dude ( cant remember what member ) to think the filter will stay clean if you run it it would come out really dirty...

[troybilt]

I emailed them to see what they can do, maybe nothing, if so I might buy one for the RZR, its a 4" diameter setup. Then design some mounts for it. I don't like the open element setups, and the stock or aluminum boxes are pretty much the same as an open element, only harder to install the filter.

Running an enclosed box has some advantages to the open elements:

1. Reduces sound open significantly
2. Obviously better projection, longer life
3. Water and stream crossing protection

Disadvantages currently:
1. Reduced power/intake efficiency
2. increased weight

I think I can come up with a system that actually increases power and still has all of the advantages of the fully enclosed box.

[jcs003]

polymers are our friends. as durable as alot of metals and usually lighter. only issue is the tooling involved with producing anything out of plastic. unless someone can do some plastic welding.