belts

[jfarrar30]

how long will a belt normally last on a 50? put a new belt on and after a couple hours of riding its pretty wore already

[EthansDad]

mines over a year old, looks like new. did you recently put a new style variator on? a good chance your pulleys are out of alignment as in your shim stacks behind the variator are incorrect and causing the belt to twist and wear fast.

the other cause could be an over tight rear spring again causing unneeded friction on the belt and rapid wear down.

-EA

[jfarrar30]

i thought it was rather premature.nothing new besides a 1000 torque spring. its seems to get hot really quick too. i will look into the shims i put it back together exactly as i took it apart when i re did the engine. where do the shims go?( still have starter gear untill the little guy can kick it over by himself) whats the best way to allign it? thanks

[EthansDad]

yea, heat is what is killing you. need to find where the friction is coming from. a 1k spring should NOT be your problem (though are you sure its a 1k?).

Check this pic - did you recently remove your kick starter gears or something odd with the variator? you need to make sure the front and rear pulleys are lined up. I don't remember the exact shim height behind the variator with starter out, but I think its a 10mm big shim, a 3mm washer, then a couple of 1mm shims to fine tune--something like that - just make it straight on the belt front to rear.

did you change belt to the EXACT width you had before? if you run a thicker belt, you might need to shims the front variator - again could be too much friction -> heat

last suspect for you to check is the rear clutch and clutch bell. is a shoe dragging, or is bell worn out?

just look around, something is a heat monster in there and the belt will be one of many parts to fail until you figure it out.

-EA

BTW - this Pic is what you DON"T want--

[jfarrar30]

same size belt as i took off. i noticed when i pulled it apart to do the engine there was belt dust everywhere but being new to the mini wasnt sure if this was normal. obviously not lol. no shoes dragging or anything. i will have to check allignment. also should the belt have slack when engine is off or at an idle or is it supposed to be tight? its not like our snowmobiles both pulleys are turning at an idle. i tried shimming the variator to loosen the belt but still tight. could not go anyfurther not enough spline to safely put kick starter gear on. is this the correct belt for the 50? 780-16.5-30 stock clutch besides springs and hetrick variator mod. would incorrect gearing cause a problem? recently moved to 18 inch rears from 16 inch with no gearing change.

[EthansDad]

the belt is always tight and both pulleys always spin. its the centrifugal clutch that engages the rear wheels unlike snowmobile clutches that rely on belt tension.

changing gearing or tires won't cause this issue.

yes, that is the stock belt. you might have better luck with a powerlink 782x16x30 - its a bit longer, and a tiny bit narrower, same groove angle.

however, if you have a belt burner issue, changing belts won't solve it, just leave you with new kinds of dust in your case.

the shims in between the variator halves do NOT effect belt alignment, they effect the delay of shift. don;t worry about that much right now, play with it to get what works best for you.

its the shims BEHIND the back of the variator that make/break your belt alignment. a lot of times, worked over variators involve removing material, or changing the dimensions some - 1mm matters here! find a nice long / straight piece of metal that will rest along the top of both pulleys and check that alignment.

back plate to back plate should be on the same plane for both pulleys.

The only other thing I've seen cause abnormal belt wear you're not going to like - a bent crank shaft. if the front variator has a warble, it will wear belts quickly. I saw this happen to one of our locals after they threw a belt hard (got wrapped up and such - crank got bend) .

could also be the bearing in the CVT cover itself - the one that holds the rear pulley in place - same thing if its shot - you get warble.

[Coley'sdad#8]

also should the belt have slack when engine is off or at an idle or is it supposed to be tight? its not like our snowmobiles both pulleys are turning at an idle.

Take your rear driver (pulley behind the clutch) apart, clean, re-grease test in your hand for full open to close operation.
sounds like you have slack in your belt because your rear pulley isnt closing all the way back up pushing the belt all the way out putting tension on it. if thats the case when your clutch kicks in your getting some slippage causing the heat which will eat da belt up. if that new 1000 torque spring has been overheated already chunk it and put another in it cause it will be weak.

[redonkulousruntsracing]

When I shim my variator, make sure that the belt is tight enough to turn the engine over. Meaning that when everything is together and tight, you would be able to grab the belt and pull the engine over with out it slipping on the variator.
Just my 2 cents.

[jfarrar30]

ok i will check allignment. my belt is tight i just wanted to make sure it is supposed to be. i will check all bearings and crank

[jfarrar30]

alignment looks good best i can tell hard to get a straight edge in there. crank is turning true rear bearing good. what is the best way or use to clean all the belt crap outta the cases. when i reinstalled i didnt get it all that clean and would like to clean it so i can monitor the situation a little better. the belt might not be as wore as i thought after measeuring it but i still think i have excessive heat. there is no discoloration on anything but side cover gets pretty warm pretty quick (non vented). is it normal to get warm? maybe im just jumping the gun i dunno

[EthansDad]

yea, they all get warm. if you take the cover off, it should be exactly "hot potato" temperature. like those technical terms? in other words you should be able to touch and handle it without getting burned, but won't be able to hold it for long.

if you get your inner cases truly clean, take a picture so you can remember the moment. even the non vented cases get a lot of clutch dust and dirt in there. I just get the excess out with a dry blue towel. brake cleaner and the like can be used, but I don't. while you are in there getting all personal with your CVT, might as well take the variator off and clean and inspect the rollers and roller ramps. a stuck roller can cause heat issues too.

What I would really worry about at this point is if I threw belt #2 quickly - like in less than 10 rides. then, its back to checking things out again. other than that, I am out of things to check.

-EA

[jfarrar30]

im going to keep a close eye on the situation. new to the cvt thing might just be a little over cautious lol. whats a good tach to use for setting up the clutching? which ones should i stay away from? i appreciate all your help and will keep you updated thank you

[EthansDad]

this one:
http://www.tinytach.com/design/handheld.php

the DTI-110 for $105. I use a different one, but this is what I'd get for first time. key things - high rpms, fast response time, can do 2strokes and having a hold / peak feature is nice too.

-EA

[raidernut]

[side cover gets pretty warm pretty quick (non vented). is it normal to get warm? maybe im just jumping the gun i dunno [/B][/QUOTE]

theres your problem

[Logan #34's Dad]

The Stage6/Koso tach is the best IMO. It also reads water temp and ride time. The water sensor is only like $13. Scootercraft.com sells what you need - click on the Stage6 logo near the top of the page, page 6.

[jfarrar30]

i will check those out thanks guys