Choosing front shocks advice

[DoonRider]

A search on this brought an overload of info, so hopefully I can get the opinion of a few that can take the time to offer it.

I have the Works shocks pictured below that came with my quad. It is an 88 with an 86 linkage to lower it. I have the shocks adjusted so they sit as low they can. I just ride recreationally and used to race TT on a quadracer. So I like the low feel.

I want to get new shocks since I am going through the quad to make it look new/fresh again.
Any suggestions on what shock to get and where to get them? None of the dealers around here have parts guys that give a crap about quads much less a 25 y/o one.
I want something with reservoirs reasonably priced that are adjustable or set up for recreational XC or set up a little lower than stock.
Is the sponsor C & D a good place to check? Or an ebay vendor?

[hawaiiysr]

Been hearing good things about Motowoz.

[snacob14]

dirtworksmotorsports.com
just give them a call and you'll feel better lol

[DoonRider]

What do you guys think of PEP ZPS shocks? I'm not able to search 3-letter words.
I think I might like their stance but I haven't seen much talk of them on here. I ran across them on the baldwinmotorsports site.

I'm not looking for anything long travel, just a better ride for recreational riding.

[hartwill]

Pep makes excellent shocks and Mark at Baldwin will take care of you. He is also the only certified pep service guy around Ohio and maybe even the whole east coast. I have pep zps fronts and couldn't be happier.

[DoonRider]

I just talked to a salesguy that suggested the Elka PB36B because they are ride height adjustable as well. I guess I see alot of people have Elkas, but I usually see them as a long travel set up, so I learned something there. I need to consider those too. They are a little cheaper, but I'll need to get used to the look of piggyback rezs.

[hartwill]

Elka shocks always seemed really soft and almost sloppy to me, also they are mass produced so they won't be setup for your application. I would spend the extra money on peps or axis or motowoz. I would buy a used set of any of these before new elkas, but some people love theirs so to each his own. I think you get the most for your money from motowoz or pep.. also make sure you know what a arms you are using before purchasing shocks it will save you money in the end.

[Nac's22]

Originally posted by DoonRider
What do you guys think of PEP ZPS shocks? I'm not able to search 3-letter words.
I think I might like their stance but I haven't seen much talk of them on here. I ran across them on the baldwinmotorsports site.

I'm not looking for anything long travel, just a better ride for recreational riding.

I have PEP ZPS on all my quads. They are amazing shocks. A little on the expencive side but awesome shocks, I have ridden very few other shocks that perform the same way. Get in contact with Seth at SF Racing. He is the best shock builder I have ever used and I suggest him to everyone.

[DoonRider]

Thanks guys. I appreciate the input.
I found out they piggyback the rezzys on the PEP ZPS now too.
Or maybe that is old news :rolleyes: I've been out of it for a few years now...

[Nac's22]

Originally posted by DoonRider
Thanks guys. I appreciate the input.
I found out they piggyback the rezzys on the PEP ZPS now too.
Or maybe that is old news :rolleyes: I've been out of it for a few years now...

Yeah a little old lol no big deal though. They can piggyback your remote rezzys but there is also the PB1 which is a true piggyback shock. Didn't know if you knew that or not.

[DoonRider]

I saw that PB1 too. Looks like that goes for a little more money. I saw them in Troy's build just now. They sell for a little more than what I care to spend. Are they like a second generation of the ZPS? What's the difference?

[troybilt]

Are you looking for new or used/rebuilt? Might also check with SF Racing for some PEP's ZPS, I just had a set but I sold them a couple months ago, they would have been perfect for you, they were setup for XC... I sold them in the 400-450 range. Another 150-200 or so for revalve for you weight... I've also got a set of almost new Works ST travel on my Arens bike that I'll probably list this weekend, with rezzies, triple rates (if I remember right) that would be a really nice shock setup as well...

[SilverLake250R]

I'll have a set of PEP ZPS (older style) in perfect shape for sale if you want. They have hardly any time since rebuild and brand new PC on the springs. I was planning on running them on my Walsh bike but I got a deal on some Axis ProAir's.

However, they are LT (19.25"), so you would need new arms.

EDIT: I saw you're not looking to switch to long travel... sorry

[hartwill]

Hey troybuilt where are you getting your peps revalved for $200? Baldwin and Gt thunder want to charge me $600 for all three.. unless you mean $200 each..

Silverlake, I had some axis pro air shocks and it seemed like I had to rebuild them every few months. Gt thunder told me that's just the way they are, they are supposed to be rebuilt after every race, I just think he wasn't doing something right. Give some feedback if you can for my own personal satisfaction, I think I was paying for his mistake. But all his other shocks are great that's why I wonder.

[SilverLake250R]

Hmm, I hope mine turn out to be better... I pretty much will only ride them in the trails and dunes, so nothing too extreme...

How did you like them as far as performance?

[hartwill]

Other than the expenses of maintenance they were great, its just with my budget I could not justify keeping them. The only shocks I've had that I didn't like performance wise were elka. They just seemed sloppy to me. But my peps are by far my favorite, so you might want to hang on to yours until you get some seat time with those axis.

[DoonRider]

Hello guys. Wondering if you can help me out.
I received my ZPS (old style with piggyback rez) shocks and installed them. Right now my quad sits like one of those 60's drag cars with its front end in the air. The a-arms are pulled up losing the extra width I gained.

My set up is as follows
+1 burgard standard travel arms
standard offset front wheels on 21" tires
rear wheels on 20" tires
stock rear shock with an 86 dogbone

With me sitting on it the front measures 9 3/8" and rear is 7 3/8". The 86 dogbone dropped the rear and I was hoping the PEP ZPS would drop the front. I am looking for a lower softer ride, something simialr to what GT Thunder's revalve and XC link did to my 450R.

What do I need to communicate to the builder get this right? I am hoping one of you has run across a similar deal and has some advice. There must be something I am not communicating....
I want to say I need a shorter shock, but I'm kind of a knucklehead when it comes to engineering, angles, and force.

[hartwill]

Post some pics, you may just be able to take off some pre load..

[DoonRider]

Or am I totally off base?

[DoonRider]

because it looks proportional here..

[DoonRider]

but what concerns me is with me sitting on it the front measures 9 3/8" (and rear is 7 3/8"). I want that front less than 8, right?

[DoonRider]

I have the clip in the top position in the pictures. No adjustability left on the preload.
I liked how it sat in the first picture of this thread, but those shocks were old and needed an upgrade.

My 86 dogbone can hardly be the culprit for the front sitting high can it?

[JM317]

Looks to me like your springs are the limiting factor, what's the shock length? 16.25 - 16.5 should be ok. You may be able to use a shorter secondary spring to bring the height down some, they're definitely cheaper than main springs.

[hartwill]

Are any of your tender springs already crossed over? You may have to adjust your cross overs, are they set up for your weight, would there be more adjustment if you took the piggy back mounts off? Just a few options you could try.

[DoonRider]

JM317 - 16.25" shock

Hartwill - tender springs the little silver ones? There is a gap the thickness of the spring wire between the coils.
They are set up for my weight.
I can't take off the piggy back mounts can I? If they weren't there, that is where my clip needs to be in my opinion.

That 86 dogbone isn't making this a unique set up is it? It lowers it and makes the shock softer, but since I am only 165, I figured it sets up the rear well for my purpose.

I'm thinking softer springs unless you guys have more ideas.

Thanks, guys.

[hartwill]

Where are you taking your measurements? Did you settle your suspension? If your on concrete try putting a piece of wax paper under each of your front wheels so they don't stick in place.

I had a problem switching dog bones on my 89 set up. Try this, take a ratchet strap and conect it to your grab bar and the swinger to compress your shock. When you get about 1/2 way through your travel start really paying attention and be careful. If you can hit your bump stop smoothly you should be ok. When I used 86 linkage something was binding up about 3/4 through my travel and suspension was hard as a rock without hitting the bump stop. I didn't even notice until I was strapping it down on the trailer one day.

I believe you can remove those piggy back mounts if there is a braided line going from shock to rezzy.
Also with your rear end so low, it may sit a little lower in the front when you level it out.

[JM317]

Your 86 link shouldn't be a problem, I personally like a lower ride height. If you are concerned about your rearend you can take your rear spring off and move your shock through it's entire range of motion until it bottoms out. If nothing makes contact when it bottoms (caliper, airbox, ect.) just run it if you're satisfied with the feel. On the fronts, you're crossover should be the spacer that separates your tender spring and secondary spring. You should be able to adjust it, I usually use 1/2" gap between the top of the spacer and the top of the tender spring with me on the quad. This is just my personal preference. I still feel like your secondary spring may not be letting you get the sag you want. You can talk to somebody like zbros racing, they carry a ton of springs and may be able to help you sort it out better.

[DoonRider]

Measured to the bottom of the frame right in front of the footpeg and right behind the rearward a-arm mounts to the frame.
I settled in the suspension, scrubbed the tires into the concrete and worked it down pushing on the front bumper mount. It sits crazy high before this.
I'm going to put that 89 dogbone on and get those measurements.
Those works shocks I had were my idea of zero preload. I pick up the front off the ground and all the shock harware is flopping around on it loose when the preload is all the way off. When I do that with these PEPs, there is still some pressure there.
I did notice that two coils on that keeper spring are tight against each other jammed up under the cap.

[DoonRider]

Hopefully this makes sense or is pertinent:
With me on it-
Keeper spring is 1/2" (top to bottom)
Red spring is 1"
White spring is 2 1/8"
Blue spring is 7 1/4"
Total shock length bolt hole c to c is 14 3/4.

Gap between spacer and crossover:
under the top spring is 1/16 of an inch
under the white spring is 3/8"

[hartwill]

That is one of the nice features of zps shocks, so when your wheel falls off camber hard (into a whole or something) it keeps pressure on your shock so you don't get that nasty clunking free fall sound and feel that works shocks like to do when you suddenly but pressure back on them.
The silver slinky looking spring is your zps spring, this spring should be fully compressed with just the weight of the quad, the two middle springs are tender springs, the top one should have about 1/8"-1/4" before crossing over, and the middle should be closer to 1/2". These measurements should be taken with you on the quad.

[DoonRider]

Looks like those measurements are close to where they need to be then....

[DoonRider]

Total shock length settles only a 1/2" with me on it though. That normal?


Originally posted by DoonRider
Hopefully this makes sense or is pertinent:
With me on it-
Keeper spring is 1/2" (top to bottom)
Red spring is 1"
White spring is 2 1/8"
Blue spring is 7 1/4"
Total shock length bolt hole c to c is 14 3/4.

Gap between spacer and crossover:
under the top spring is 1/16 of an inch
under the white spring is 3/8"

[hartwill]

Do you have your a arm bolts cranked down really tight? Do your arms move freely without the shock on them?

[DoonRider]

ya, they flop down under their own weight with no tires and wheels on them. I was pretty careful about that. I usually overtorque everything.

[hartwill]

Hmm, where did you buy those shocks from?

[DoonRider]

Originally posted by hartwill
Hmm, where did you buy those shocks from?

Sent you a PM.

[DoonRider]

With the 86 dogbone:
front measures 9 3/8" and rear is 7 3/8".

With the 88 dogbone:
front measures 8 1/2" and rear is 8 3/8".

Who woulda thunk it would have dropped the front that much.

Is this where I need to be?
I'm gonna miss that rear end being that 1" lower.

[dustin_j]

Where in Iowa are you, I'm by Independence? I'd be willing to help if you're close or willing to drive? Let me know if I can help.

It looks like your front spring stack is too stiff; it won't sag enough to match the low rear height. With your 86 rear dogbone, your rear was so low that almost all your body weight was transfered to the rear shock. Raising the rear with the 88 dogbone allowed more weight to be put on the front shocks.

With whichever setup you use, you should check extended and compressed lengths to make sure your travel is all usable travel. You don't want your frame to bottom out before your shocks, and you want front and rear travel to be balanced.

[DoonRider]

Thanks. I'm in the northwest corner near Sioux falls, SD.

Thanks for your opinions guys. I don't really have anybody locally to bounce ideas off so your responses mean alot to me.

[hartwill]

Sounds to me like swapping dog bones put you right were you need to be, especially if you are using 20/21" tires your about dead on.

[DoonRider]

Even for a ZPS shock? I was thinking that is where a non ZPS would be.
I don't have any adjustability left either. I am at the top clip.

[DoonRider]

Mounted up and with me on the quad, they are a 1/2" shorter than when I took them out of the box. I was expecting some sag.

Is there no sag because I have standard travel suspension?

[hartwill]

No, that zps just keeps tension on your tender springs when your travel is fully extended, and standard and long travel is no difference, they both actually have the same amount of travel, only real difference is LT usually much easier to dial in because they hold more fluid I believe. Did you try the wax paper thing? You also may try riding them a bit and get the oil a little warm this may loosen them up a little and help them settle. When looking at your middle spring though it does look a little longer than I've seen before, but maybe its just the picture.

[dustin_j]

They should compress more than 1/2" when you're on the bike. Remove all the shocks and set the quad 12" off the ground; make sure your tires are aired up. Measure center to center shock lengths front and rear. Then put the quad on 1.5" blocks (2x4s laid flat) and measure c to c again. These are your desired extended and compressed shock lengths.

Remove the springs from your shocks. Measure c to c extended length of the shock. slide the bottom out bumper up, and measure metal to metal travel of the shock; this is actual shaft travel. Shock extended length - travel = shock compressed length.

If your shock lengths differ from measurements taken on the frame, they should be corrected or accounted for when setting up your quad. If they measure correct (doubt it), then it's simply spring rate issues. Let us know what you find and we can help from there.

These measurements also allow you to correctly read and set race sag; which is a better judge than ride height alone. Your race sag should be roughly 40% of your wheel travel.

[DoonRider]

Originally posted by hartwill
No, that zps just keeps tension on your tender springs when your travel is fully extended, and standard and long travel is no difference, they both actually have the same amount of travel, only real difference is LT usually much easier to dial in because they hold more fluid I believe. Did you try the wax paper thing? You also may try riding them a bit and get the oil a little warm this may loosen them up a little and help them settle. When looking at your middle spring though it does look a little longer than I've seen before, but maybe its just the picture.

Not being smart but this from a dealer's website:
The "Zero Pre-Load System" is our unique design that has adjustable ride height so the chassis can be set at a low ride height while having long travel.

I have no adjustability and my front end seems stiff.

[hartwill]

Here is a set of peps I have, this is exactly as they were on the quad. Notice preload setting, these are not zps nor were they piggy back. You may have quite a bit of adjustment left under those piggy mounts. Most of these I've seen were on long travel shocks where there is much more room on the shock body for the mount.http://i1180.photobucket.com/albums/x407/hartwill/Snapbucket/d5c27db3-orig.jpg

[hartwill]

Here is another set of zps shocks I had. Every preload notch you move I believe should raise or lower your ride height almost 1/4" (I think that's right) any way I guess what I'm saying here is try taking that piggy back mount off, it looks like you have about 1" of un-usable preload adjustment that you could benefit by mounting your rezzys elsewhere. On mine the adjustment went almost clear up to the rezzy line.<a href="http://s1180.photobucket.com/albums/x407/hartwill/Snapbucket/?action=view&amp;current=ee841ba7-orig.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1180.photobucket.com/albums/x407/hartwill/Snapbucket/ee841ba7-orig.jpg" border="0" alt="Snapbucket"></a>

[DoonRider]

Good point on the rezzy's. I would need to convert the lines to do that.

Look at the angle of your a-arms compared to mine. Why the difference?

[hartwill]

This picture was taken before I set my ride height. How much line do you have? Maybe enough to see if this fixes your sag issue? Other than that dustin_j post is a good idea, that Will give you the measurements you need to get to the bottom of your issue.

[dustin_j]

DoonRider, are you saying there is preload on the stack and the zps spring is compressed with no force on the shock? For a zps spring setup, there should be "slack" that allows the zps spring to compress some before the spring stack is engaged. Zps setups typically use stiffer spring setups for bottoming resistance; that's why they need the zps spring to get enough sag with a stiff stack. This would explain why you don't get any shock travel; the springs are too stiff.

I would question a shock builder who would build a zps setup, but not allow enough adjustment to use the zps spring:huh. Possible fixes:
-get a shorter middle spring (the white one seems really tall).
-remove reservoirs to gain more adjustment notches. The shocks have lines on them already, they're just clamped to the shock instead of the frame.
-Change spring stacks.

[woodsracer144]

Originally posted by hartwill
Pep makes excellent shocks and Mark at Baldwin will take care of you. He is also the only certified pep service guy around Ohio and maybe even the whole east coast. I have pep zps fronts and couldn't be happier.

Profab is a pep dealer...