Owners of CCP (and other PUCK style) Steering Stabilizers

[tri5ron]

First,
I'd like for this discussion to focus on Hydraulic Puck style Stabilizers Only.
No offence intended to you Stick Style users. If you want to have a discussion about them, then by all means,... start a thread on it.

Ok,
I was talking to Steve last night and we were discussing our CCP Stabilizers.
I was saying how I absolutely LOVE mine, and that it has undoubtedly saved my butt, more than once from getting tossed off my quad.
(this is quite evident in the fact, that I am constantly needing to straighten out yet another dent in my front rims, lol !)
so in my opinion, it's worth it's weight in GOLD !

The issue that I have with it, is that I basically ride with the thing cranked ALL THE WAY to the stiffest setting, all the time. I literally can feel NO Resistance, with it between #1 to #4, and it only goes to #8.
It has been this way since new.

I have even tried it with the quad up on a lift, and the wheels not even touching the ground.

With the Stabilizer set anywhere between #1 and #4, I still can feel NO Resistance AT ALL, when I move the handlebars full left or right.

It is only at #5 or above, that I even BEGIN to feel any resistance,... and remember,... this is still with the wheels off the ground.
Now certainly, at full hard, #8, there is some significant resistance.

My impression on it is, that full hard settings, it should practically take a Gorilla to crank the bars left or right,...
and that the average "Happy Zone" should be around the middle of the range, or slightly higher than mid-range.

I have never opened my stabilizer up, and I have never changed the oil,...
but it is my impression, that PUCK Style stabilizers, are all HYDRAULIC resistance, and therefore the selector knob is essentually a little valve that governs the rate of oil flow.
Am I correct in this thinking ?

Also, if I AM correct in this thinking,...
Then it would stand to reason, that using a heavier weight of oil, should move that "Happy Zone" more to the lower numbers.
Right ?

So what I would like to get from you guys, (with Puck Style stabilizers), is a Comparative Results Test, from each of your quads with these stabilizers.

Place your quad up on a stand, or blocks, or whatever, to get the front wheels off the ground.
Then turn your stabilizers to the LOWEST/LEAST RESISTANCE Setting.
Then with one hand, move you handle bars to full left and full right. Keep moving them back and forth with that hand, as you use your OTHER hand to slowly turn the resistance up on your stabilizer's adjustment knob.
Once you begint to feel the resistance, Stop.

Take note of that setting, and come back here to post up your results.
If you KNOW for a fact what your oil weight is, then include that in your post, along with your brand/model of stabilizer.

Please guys, only Quads, and no Motorcycles.
WHY ???
Because it's not the same thing.
Motorcycles dont have 2 front wheels and 2 tierods, and 2 spindles to move.

Also, please no Stick style stabilizers either.
I'm not interested in comparing apples to oranges here.

What I eventually am shooting for here,...
is a Apples to Apples comparison, of like style, and/or brands of "Wet Puck" style stabilizers,
and more specifically,...

How different WEIGHTS of Oils, will affect where the Most Preferred Settings, are on the adjustments.

(so it's mostly about the OILS guys).

OK, There's your assignment for the week,...
give it a shot, and post up your results.

Pics or Vids are welcomed and encouraged.

[CJM]

So is it really worth having it on there? Was really considering buying one Ron.

[tri5ron]

Originally posted by CJM
So is it really worth having it on there? Was really considering buying one Ron. HAhahaaaa... Yeah, It's REALLY worth it. NO DOUBT ABOUT IT !
Here, go read up on this old thread, from when we were all jumping on the bandwagon, and decide for yourself ! LOL !!!

http://www.exriders.com/vbb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=349366&highlight=steering+stabilizer

No B.S. here, the thing has saved my butt more times than I can describe.
ANY 400EX that gets ridden fast in rough terrain should have one. PERIOD !

if you spend most of your riding time on a manicured track, then its not as necessary.
Beneficial ???... YES, Necessary ???... No.

but if you ride Ruts, Rocks, Logs, Boulders, Washes, or any combination of those, at anything over a Granny's pace,... then YES,.... it is ABSOLUTELY Worth it's Weight in GOLD !

With a good stabilizer,
you will be able to ride in the rough much FASTER, and with far less Arm Pump, and overall Body Fatigue.
(this is pretty important to a 50 year old dirtbag like myself)
AND,... you will be able to ride LONGER.

oh yeah,.... theres also,
the LESS Crashes, and no Broken Thumbs thing too.... :devil:

(jmho)

[CJM]

lol more money I need to spend then...

[01boneless]

how much does the puck stlye one run price wise???

[NacsMXer]

Ron, I noticed that about the adjustment right after I bolted it on.

I think it's simply a discrepancy between how the needle valve actually works in terms of its regulation of hydraulic resistance and the numerical markings on the adjustment knob. I use the numbers to keep track of where I normally run it but don't think of them as precise setting points.

Imagine for a second that the adjustment knob has no markings whatsoever, and that it only gets harder as you screw it in and easier as you screw it out. With the particular valve that is inside the unit, there is some "dead space" in the beginning of the adjustment. Only after you tighten it some more, do you start getting into the "functional zone" of the valving...this is when you notice the stabilizer starting to affect steering feel.

It just so happens that the "dead space" in the valve's adjustment includes some of the lower marked numbers (#1-#4 like you said). I usually run mine at #5-6 on the light side and crank it up as needed so it really doesn't bother me much.

I chalk it up to the nature of the valving, and the fact that this is more of a home-brewed simple design compared to the name brand stabilizers out there. It is simple, but that doesn't mean it doesn't work well.

It is sort of like when I converted from the old style 21 click remote reservoir PEP shocks to the newer style 8 click big bottle shocks. With the 21 click shocks, you didn't notice much difference between clicks, especially at the lower settings. But with the 8 click bottles, there is a discernible difference between settings with each click. Both valve designs accomplish the same thing as far as regulating compression damping, but they are different in design, so one type offers a more definable adjustment over the other.

Hope that all made sense

[honda400ex2003]

subscribed to find out what you end up doing with it ron!

after thinking about our discussion for a while last night i came to a bit of a conclusion to help you out possibly.

i think with a heavier weight oil it would be good to go. finding the right weight however will be tough without testing the viscosity of it.

i would be willing to bet that it is somewhere around 80 weight in there visc wise compared to another oil. hydraulic ram oil would work along with a mineral oil. this would probably be your next bet, try some mineral oil from walmart. it is thicker than something like the magura mineral oil but has the same properties of it. that would def be thick enough to tell a difference in the lower numbers imo. I used the wally world mineral in my hydro clutch for a while with no ill results.


a few thoughts on it i guess... Im not sure if it will help you out or not but it would be a decent upgrade style oil to add to it.

maybe the oil you have is starting to break down a bit too causing it to become more viscous than it orginally was. it will flow easier as it breaks down and gets contaminated a bit from the metals.

I wish i had a schematic of the internals, i bet you could change the valving and call it a day too like we had talked about but that would be alot more work than just disassembling it and changing the oil in it.


steve

[honda400ex2003]

anyone know the ccp website? after a valiant search i came up with nothing. I was hoping to find a schematic with a parts list of it to see how the internals look but it is mia. :( steve

[tri5ron]

Originally posted by NacsMXer
Hope that all made sense

Nacs,
Yes it all makes perfect sense, and I completely agree that it is simply the nature of a simple design.
The higher priced Precisions, and Elkas most certainly are more complex units, as well as they do have a nice function that the CCP can't compare with.
That function being, that the "Other" big bucks brands, do not dampen going back to center, from full lock., Whereas the CCP dampens at a consistant rate, in either direction, from full left, to full right, and back again.
I'm completely Fine with that, seeing as how the CCP is only 1/3 the price of the two other Big Boys.

So far, dampening back to center, has not been a problem for me, and I really can't see how it could ever be.

(remember,... I only WORK at/for the Baja 1000 & 500 races,...
I'll be damned if I'm ever going to actually RACE in them,... SCREW THAT IDEA!!!) LOL !!!

To somebody who is going to do THAT caliber of racing, Sure, it might behoove them to spend the $600 bucks on a Precision or Elka. But not me.

So back to the physical Function and valving of the CCP.
I agree that it does it's job, to a perfectly satisfactory level, and we who have them have ALL been pleased with them.
(I have only ever heard of one member here selling a used one, and I belive he was simply parting the entire quad out).

My whole issue is that I would think that by putting a heavier weight of oil into it, it would stand to reason that the range of effective adjustment would be spread across a broader spectrum of the adjustment knob, and as well, possibly even have a more sensitive nature TO those adjustments.

Also, I think it would be quite fine that at a full hard adjustment, that it would be too stiff, and need to be backed off a little to find that comfort zone.
This would also have a second advantage of giving us a indication as to when the oil was starting to break down.
consider it for a second,...

Let's say our comfortable setting is at the #4 for regular riding, and at #5 or #6 for the really nasty stuff.
And lets say that #7 or #8 was just too darned stiff for anybody with less forearms than Popeye...

If that was the case, then as the oil started to break down, we would start screwing in a little more on the knob. right ?

With that being the case, then it would just give you a indication, that at a #8 setting, it's time to change the oil.

What do you think?
Is that a reasonable line of thinking ?

There will most probably still be a "Dead Space" around #1 and #2, and I'm ok with that too.

I'm basically just trying to fine tune the thing, and possibly even broaden it's effectivity range.
It just bothers me a little bit, that straight out of the box, I can comfortably ride at a Full hard/Full stiff setting, and I'm not THAT big of a guy !,... I'm 6', 170, and OLD!

Onry, Mean, Old, Cantankerous, Stubborn, and a general Knothead,...Maybe so,... but I'm still no Gorilla with Popeye arms!

Besides ,... All the threads lately ,that go something like,....
"Hey Guys,"
"I have a green and purple quad with 2" wheel spacers all around, and a Titanium parking brake block-off plate with "O"-ring, Hello Kitty Graphics", SpongeHeadSquishy grips, faux-leather leopard skin seatcover, handlebars with real cool bend, and Space Shuttle engine oil"........................ "So what should my jetting be" ??? ....... have just gotten WAaaaaaayyyy too monotonous lately. :devil: :huh :D

Steve,
There is no CCP website to my knowledge. they are simply a unit that a single guy machines out of his garage or shop, and sells them on EBAY.
His name is James Johnson, and he is somewhere in Detroit Lakes, Minnesota. He does not have a schematic available to my knowledge, and it's even kind of hard to get ahold of the guy.
(he dosent have the best track record in returning replies to inquiries). But he DOES put out a Nice stabilizer, at a very reasonable price, and a High Level of Quality.
I'd buy another from him anytime.
I WISH he would make one for my wifes 250EX, but he dosent.

here is one of his current auctions...
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/honda-TRX-400EX-CCP-steering-stabilizer-free-shipping-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem3f0870079bQQitemZ27072 4499355QQptZMotorsQ5fATVQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories
857 sales and 100% positive feedback,... Whats that tell ya ???

[honda400ex2003]

sounds like a good idea to me ron. I will look for a schematic of the precision tomorrow. I thought CCP was the precision one i was looking for not the other way around lol.

since neither of us have had one apart im thinking that it would be a good idea to take a good look at it before we tear it apart. I dont have one so you will have to do that. lol.

as for the jetting you are gonna need a 290 mikuni main for it. (thats my secret for power, dont let that out.) it works freaking awesome man!

steve

[sneaky11]

Hey guys!! I know my GPR is not the traditionnal puck style, it's an over the bar stablizer but it's builded the same way as the puck style. it's a 6 clic adjustment on it.

I freshly change the oil in mine for Bel-ray 10w fork oil. With the quad on the stand I can feel some pretty good resistance on the bar will turning left to right at setting #1, but i can move it by 1 hand.... at #6 it's crazy stiff, need my 2 hands and even sit on the bike or it will just fall off the stand.

I think the oil make all the difference, not only move the happy zone, but depending on the quality and viscosity it will also make your adjustment more precise between each # setting.

I now just need to put the motor in the frame!! :huh

mike

[NacsMXer]

Originally posted by sneaky11
Hey guys!! I know my GPR is not the traditionnal puck style, it's an over the bar stablizer but it's builded the same way as the puck style. it's a 6 clic adjustment on it.

I freshly change the oil in mine for Bel-ray 10w fork oil. With the quad on the stand I can feel some pretty good resistance on the bar will turning left to right at setting #1, but i can move it by 1 hand.... at #6 it's crazy stiff, need my 2 hands and even sit on the bike or it will just fall off the stand.

I think the oil make all the difference, not only move the happy zone, but depending on the quality and viscosity it will also make your adjustment more precise between each # setting.

I now just need to put the motor in the frame!! :huh

mike

Thanks for sharing that. Definitely reinforces what tri5ron was speculating about.

[tri5ron]

Sneaky,
Over the bars type is fine.
It's still a hydraulic Puck type.

SOooo,... reguarding the questions at hand,

Have you tried it with different weights of oils ?

if so, Did it change the range and sensitivity of adjustment settings ?

if so, how much ?, and comparatively to what various weights of oil ?

Did you have a different weight of oil in it, before using to the fork oil ?
if so, what was previously in it ?
how did the settings act then ?
and how are they comparatively different now ?

[duroc825]

I recently bought my CCP. Mine came with a small instruction sheet that said 1 is the stiffest. Also to never turn it all the way clockwise or counterclockwise (past 0 more or less). Here is makers ebay store link http://myworld.ebay.com/custom-cnc-parts/
He does service and sell parts for his stabilizers. His email is James Johnson <customcncparts@yahoo.com>
By the way, I run mine set on 2 (long part of adjust. knob) and I can feel the difference easily with wheels on the ground

[sneaky11]

I didn't really field test it before, but I know it as 7.5wt fork oil of don't know what brand in it before I changed it, the factory one (past owner tell me he order it new that way)... with the bike on the stand I can really feel the difference between the 2 oil... before it wasn't stiff at all at setting #1... and at #6 it was like #2 with the 10wt Bel-Ray... and not a really big diffence between #1 to #6... you can feel it, but not that much...

As for the oil quality... GPR recommend to only put fork oil in the stabilizer... and it make sense cuz it's a damper... like shocks... I think the best oil to fit into that is fork oil, but I can imagine that quality will get the setting more precise... I use BEL-RAY in almost any lubricant I need except motor oil... It's performance stuff and I never been disapointed with it.

You can call CCP and try to know what's the type of oil he factory put in... and with that you'll know where you need to go!!

Lets us know Ron!