need help with mods

[backwoods 400ex]

hi im looking at redoing the motor in my 2006 400ex i ice race and need to keep up with the 450s better lol. First i was thinking of a 10:1 pistion and sparks x1 cam and keep racing in the class im in, i beat them all off the line but the gradually pass me and gain on me and on a 1/4 mile oval there like 25ft ahead at the end of the race i ussually end up 4th out of like 8 all 450s and one ktm 525 i was running 14-37 gearing. Next i was thinking of going to 416 and move up one class which is all most of the same pple that are in the other class it will be against all stock 450s in both classes. Sorry this is so long but thank you

[trailrider894]

Originally posted by backwoods 400ex
hi im looking at redoing the motor in my 2006 400ex i ice race and need to keep up with the 450s better lol. First i was thinking of a 10:1 pistion and sparks x1 cam and keep racing in the class im in, i beat them all off the line but the gradually pass me and gain on me and on a 1/4 mile oval there like 25ft ahead at the end of the race i ussually end up 4th out of like 8 all 450s and one ktm 525 i was running 14-37 gearing. Next i was thinking of going to 416 and move up one class which is all most of the same pple that are in the other class it will be against all stock 450s in both classes. Sorry this is so long but thank you

Well, lets establish something. You will never be as fast as a 450r, but i'll get you close.

First off, get it bored to a 426cc with an 11:1 piston and a Stage 2 Hotcam. Also get the 450r FCR carb and a P&P polish done. I would also reccomend some HD valve springs. Along with a good exhaust setup and intake setup. I recommend the K&N for low dust environments.

That really should get you close to where you wanna be.

[backwoods 400ex]

id like to max bore it to 416 if i go down that road this is what i was thinking:

11:1 wiesco pistion
Web cam
GT Thunder HD head studs
Gt Thunder HD cam chain
450r card
port and polish
Spal fan
Im gunna be running against all bone stock 450s and im only gunna race it one year until i can aford a 450 but i got college this fall and i wanna make sure i can afford that first lol

[chronicsmoke]

If you plan on upgrading, then I personally wouldnt dump all kinds of money into it. I know its nice to have the extra power, but the price of all of those mods would be a nice payment on a 450r.

Forget the fan, focus on the new piston, cam to compliment it, 450r carb and P&P. I dont know about the heavy duty studs and chain, I'd defintly do it if you were planning on keeping it, but if not I would be concerend about the added cost.

I've ran years on stock studs with a 426, not saying its right. The next thing I want to do to the EX is give it a cam, HD studs, and Chain. But I'm never going to sell this thing, its been mine since 2001

jmo ;)

[backwoods 400ex]

okay i wont worry about the fan but i bought this 400 brand new in 07 it was my first 4wheeler and i wanna keep it for ever and i know a 450 would be the way to go but i dont have alot of money to get a nice 450 i could prolly get a cheap one but i race for points and ill be screwd if it breaks down. i only plan on useing it for ice racing this upcoming season then move to a 450 but i wanna be more competative this year and with my 400 i know what i got and how its beenm taken care of

[CJM]

416 bore
10:1 piston
+6 sparks timing key
stage 2 hotcam
04-05 450r carb
no airbox lid
GT thunder head studs
2002 CRF450 timing chain, replace guides and auto tensioner on block with new 400x parts. This chain is much cheaper than anything out there and its just as strong as all those $100 ones and its stock honda

That should get you close if not as fast or faster than them. I can easily keep up or sometimes beat depending on rider a 450r, my atv is similar to the above but is 11:1, no sparks key and no 450r carb.

[JOHNDOE83]

If your gonna bore it, GET A 440!!

its the same price as a 416 or 426 and your just gonna wish you had the 440!!!!

I drag race high mod 450s all day and have no issues.

[Honda.rider5871]

Originally posted by JOHNDOE83
If your gonna bore it, GET A 440!!

its the same price as a 416 or 426 and your just gonna wish you had the 440!!!!

I drag race high mod 450s all day and have no issues.
Theres many reasons people dont get a 440 , heres a couple
1. Overheating
2. No over bore left
3. A well built 426 with 11;1 piston, cam , p&p polishing, 450r carb, and exhaust will run with any 440 out there
4. 440s dont rev quick , and make it even harder to keep up with 450s unless your drag racing
5. Reliability issues with the 440

It may be the same price to do the job, but when thatv 440 leave you stranded theres alot more parts to buy, to fix it compared to a 416, or 426

[backwoods 400ex]

im not a fan of 440s if i bore it the max will be 2mm over or 416 just for reliability cause i still wanna trail ride it when im done racing it

[JOHNDOE83]

Originally posted by Honda.rider5871
Theres many reasons people dont get a 440 , heres a couple
1. Overheating
2. No over bore left
3. A well built 426 with 11;1 piston, cam , p&p polishing, 450r carb, and exhaust will run with any 440 out there
4. 440s dont rev quick , and make it even harder to keep up with 450s unless your drag racing
5. Reliability issues with the 440

It may be the same price to do the job, but when thatv 440 leave you stranded theres alot more parts to buy, to fix it compared to a 416, or 426


Ive never had any of the issues stated here, My 440 is over 5 years old, no head studs, stock oil cooler, never runs hot. Also, you dont bore it you sleeve it, then you just re sleeve if need be.

I dont wanna argue about it, but a 426 being faster then a 440 just isnt true.

[tri5ron]

Originally posted by backwoods 400ex
hi im looking at redoing the motor in my 2006 400ex i ice race and need to keep up with the 450s better lol. First i was thinking of a 10:1 pistion and sparks x1 cam and keep racing in the class im in, i beat them all off the line but the gradually pass me and gain on me and on a 1/4 mile oval there like 25ft ahead at the end of the race i ussually end up 4th out of like 8 all 450s and one ktm 525 i was running 14-37 gearing. Next i was thinking of going to 416 and move up one class which is all most of the same pple that are in the other class it will be against all stock 450s in both classes. Sorry this is so long but thank you So what is the question ?

[honda400ex2003]

just for the record... it is no where near as cheap to do a 440 as it is any other stock cylinder size. the sleeve alone costs almost as much as a 416 piston let alone adding in the cost of the actual 440 piston.

you need a sleeve and piston
also need to get both installed for the extra money involved there.

theres at least 100 bucks at the very minimum if you can get a sleeve cheap and then another 50 at least for the install of said sleeve.

:eek2: :rolleyes:

get real people... use some numbers here instead of shooting off false statements as always happens. It is really starting to get old...


steve

[CJM]

I look at it like this: bore to 416, still gives you another bore before you must scrap the sleeve and either start over or go 440.

440s nice but I also find they dont rev nearly as quick as a 416 or 426. They do have some nice lowend grunt tho.

As for putting the sleeve in: Its not to hard, but your avg person doesnt have a clue how to do it. Heres how: heat the cyl in an oven or with a torch and get it good and hot and the sleeve pops right out. Then drop the new sleeve in and cool it off once you got it in the right spot. Takes all of maybe an hour.

[JOHNDOE83]

How much does it cost to do a complete 416 kit?

Or 426 kit?

[honda400ex2003]

Originally posted by JOHNDOE83
How much does it cost to do a complete 416 kit?

Or 426 kit?

do i really have to make a price list...


the sleeve for a 440 alone is enough to make a comment like that void.

cheapest sleeve on ebay: 50 bucks

cheapest 440 wiseco
115

cheapest 416 piston: 138

so 165> 138 just for the piston and sleeve alone. I paid quite a bit more than 115 bucks for my 440 piston when i got it this winter.

you wont be just heating up the cylinder and dropping in a different sleeve... it is alot bigger outside DIA than a regular sleeve is. the casting itself has to be milled to accept the 440 sleeve into it. that will cost $$ besides a matchup clean on the sleeve as well. instead of just the bore itself at any shop.

the 440 piston isnt fitting into the sleeve without cleaning it up. Ive tried it, its not gonna happen without a bore on it to get it fitted properly.

SO ONCE AGAIN I SAY, THERES NO WAY THAT A 440 CAN BE CHEAPER.

im done...

steve

[JOHNDOE83]

Well I did my research unfortunatly.

this is a complete kit

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/HONDA-XR400-XR400R-WISECO-440CC-BIG-BORE-CYLINDER-KIT-/290548344963?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item43a607e883

Now go buy a 416 piston, rings, get your cylinder bored, and I bet your at this same price or more.

Theres a 416 piston and ring kit for $275 and a cheaper one, still get you cylinder bored and add gaskets, 400 easy.

[honda400ex2003]

i paid 150 for my piston 50 for bore and
40 for a gasket kit. 240 sorry
even at 70 an hour you are still cheaper.



id never ever spend 275 on a piston and rings only without getting blown too...

steve

[JOHNDOE83]

True, you coulda got this 440 piston instead for $79.99

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1999-2008-Honda-400EX-NAMURA-11-1-440cc-89mm-PISTON-/370484840288?pt=Motors_ATV_Parts_Accessories&hash=item56429e0760

[honda400ex2003]

except its a namura...

you wont win any price battle man... no matter what number you put it is still higher for a 440 period. is it really that big of a deal though no. it doesnt rev as fast as an equal 426 because of pure piston weight alone compared to a 440. the torque is there for the 440 to help it out due to that extra weight.

im retired from the internet broohaha for the evening... i have better things to do than argue about the price of a piston.

steve

[honda400ex2003]

also for the record the 150 was for my 416 piston not a 440 piston.

to the op: check out the PK kits from wiseco, that is a great kit also, it comes with the whole thing and is pretty reasonable compared to buying them separate or as an ebay kit. separate is cheaper 90% of the time but can take alot more time to get rounded up since it is nice to wait for the cheapest one on ebay then buy it.

steve