Uh-oh, Jap Nuke Plant...Possible Meltdown [Archive]

brian76708

03-15-2011, 10:53 PM

Originally posted by CJM
What gets me is the Japanese normally super engineer everything so perfectly. Its amazing this has slipped thru the cracks all these years.

This exact reason is why I horribly dislike nuke power.

i just heard on the news that a few years ago the same plant spilled a bunch of nuke waste in the ocean. Looks like they got a pretty bad track record. I also dont think the Japanese take safety as seriously as the USA does as well. Either way they did get a pretty hard 1 2 punch.

SRH

03-15-2011, 11:14 PM

it just seems like everyone is standing around

instead of cleaning up bodies and debris why wouldnt they concentrate everything to fixing this issue?

i guess we dont know the details but everytime i turn on cnn everyone is just watching it

Tommy Warren

03-16-2011, 12:14 AM

the last 50 people controlling the plant have been evacuated....if it goes high enough into the atmosphere it will go world wide.....this is a much much much bigger problem than anybody is making it out to be...people just don't understand:mad:

wishmasstir

03-16-2011, 06:04 AM

I don't know why people aren't focusing on the REAL issue here ... THIS is EXACTLY how GODZILLA was created!!!!!!!!!!!

:chinese: :chinese: :chinese:

I'm in the nuclear business so I know

finsteratv

03-16-2011, 09:28 AM

if this sh*t blows its gonna have a huge impact on the US. im worried about springbreak since im going to hawaii, i hope nothing happens..

wilkin250r

03-16-2011, 10:52 AM

Originally posted by CJM
This exact reason is why I horribly dislike nuke power.

Coal mining is one of the most dangerous professions in the world, so is it better to have a bunch of small incidents happen every year than to have one big incident to happen every few decades?

Exxon Valdez spill, Gulf of Mexico oil leak? Oil isn't without it's share of environmental risks, either.

I don't think I could say one is "worse" than another. Yes, nuclear meltdowns tend to be much worse when they happen, but they also seem to be more rare. Without researching, I can only think of three: Chernobyl, Three Mile Island, and now this one.

But oil spills happen all the time, you only hear about the major ones, and even then you still only hear about the ones close to you (like the Gulf). You don't hear about the 3 million gallons of oil spilled off the coast of Korea in 2007.

I'm not saying you have to like nuclear power, I'm just saying that EVERYTHING has it's share of risks and disasters.

CJM

03-16-2011, 12:33 PM

Originally posted by wilkin250r
Coal mining is one of the most dangerous professions in the world, so is it better to have a bunch of small incidents happen every year than to have one big incident to happen every few decades?

Exxon Valdez spill, Gulf of Mexico oil leak? Oil isn't without it's share of environmental risks, either.

I don't think I could say one is "worse" than another. Yes, nuclear meltdowns tend to be much worse when they happen, but they also seem to be more rare. Without researching, I can only think of three: Chernobyl, Three Mile Island, and now this one.

But oil spills happen all the time, you only hear about the major ones, and even then you still only hear about the ones close to you (like the Gulf). You don't hear about the 3 million gallons of oil spilled off the coast of Korea in 2007.

I'm not saying you have to like nuclear power, I'm just saying that EVERYTHING has it's share of risks and disasters.

You make some good points, but the effects of a nuclear meltdown are far more catastrophic than coal mining or oil drilling will ever be. Yes the oil spills are bad, the recent BP one was horrible-but not nearly as bad as if it had been a nuke meltdown. Same thing with coal mining, yes incidents happen all the time but on a much smaller scale. A mine collapses/caves in, how many realistically will be harmed by such a thing 20-maybe 30 workers and thier families?

I dont like nuke power, it has to many inherent risks and complications that can occur if its not handled right. Plus there is always the prospect of someone using a nuke plant as a terrorist target and causing massive devastation.

We have yet to find a reliable power source that doesnt have drawbacks sadly.

Look at it like this: Suppose tomorrow the world went tits up-whose gonna man the nuke plants? Whose gonna make sure we dont have meltdowns? If there is no one to man these things it is not gonna turn out to well. Hell, Chernobyl will stay radioactive for the next thousand years.

mx8

03-16-2011, 01:22 PM

Originally posted by finsteratv
if this sh*t blows its gonna have a huge impact on the US. im worried about springbreak since im going to hawaii, i hope nothing happens..

Well were all pray that your spring break don't get messed up. And then if we have time were pray for all the people who died in japan.:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

D Bergstrom

03-16-2011, 01:37 PM

Originally posted by beastlywarrior
you know that radiation is gonna affect everyone on our west coast

They used to set off nuclear bombs 60 miles from where I live, yet we all happen to still be alive. I can't imagine a nulcear incident half the world away will effect us that much...

I am sure they will get it worked out, the Japanese are not stupid. This could happen anywhere, I bet we have plants in the US that would not take a 9.0 earthquake.

Doug

wilkin250r

03-16-2011, 01:38 PM

Originally posted by mx8
Well were all pray that your spring break don't get messed up. And then if we have time were pray for all the people who died in japan.:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

I don't see you in a rowboat headed for Japan to try to help out.

He can't fix the problem, so there's not much sense in putting his life on hold until it's repaired. Relaxation and entertainment are an important part of life (if the entire beer industry went belly-up, you BET there would be huge economic impacts, even though it's not necessarily life-threatening to be without alcohol).

There's nothing wrong with being concerned about issues close to home.

witech

03-16-2011, 02:54 PM

Is building nuclear reactors right in the tsunami wave zones area a standard procedure? I know Japan has the best documented history of earthquakes and tsunamis which happen on a regular basis. I wonder what the story is behind building nuclear plants in a earthquake and tsunami zone?

quadrider

03-16-2011, 03:28 PM

People's fear of the scary word "nuclear" is understandable, but the fear is from not understanding whats going on. japans problem was because there back up generators for the cooling system were in the basement of the building, so when the wave came in if flooded the room and took out the generators, ( yeah a bad design from the engineers in the 60's) the earthquake didn't damage it because it was build to withstand it. other plants in japan have there generators on upper floors, this one was the unlucky one that didn't. MSNBC last night has been doing the most fear mongering about this but every expert they bring on keeps telling them its not as bad as there trying to make it out to be, in fact msnbc did a rather "manly" thing last night and admitted that they were wrong about there "apocalyptic end of the world" during the BP oil spill. everyone was saying it was going to affect the hole world for many decades, yet a reporter who lives on the coast said everything is back to normal and just peachy.. You have to remember these networks are going for ratings and stretching the truth and putting fear into you is there way on keeping you tuned in.. you are exposed to radiation everyday from the sun and xrays from the DR or from tsa scanners at the airport.If you have radon in your basement your getting exposed, If you work on a oil rig your getting exposed, your exposed everyday and your not turning green and getting sick, yes those people over there are getting higher doses that are in the immediate area, but there are people testing the levels and its not a big mushroom cloud that's floating over the ocean and going to "get us". nuclear power is here to stay and has zero carbon footprint besides building them, if we didn't have the scared shut down after 3 mile island we would be less dependant on oil for our power needs. I mean we didn't just give up on cars and planes after a few crashed and killed people we learned from it and how to make them safer and more efficient. In fact while I'm typing this chris mattews from HARDBALL has been saying the people on site are committing suicide by going in there and there skin is falling off, but then a independent expert came on and said that they're NOT being exposed to life threatening levels.
Risk is a part of life and everything has risk involved. "Poop happends" for every hour there reporting about one death from something they don't like ( nuclear, oil, coalmine ect...) 14 people die in car accidents 3 of those in a prius or other hybrid ironicly.

bmxican345

03-16-2011, 04:39 PM

Originally posted by CJM
We have yet to find a reliable power source that doesnt have drawbacks sadly.

It truly is amazing. The US dumped hundreds of billions bailing out entire companies. Do you have any idea how much money that is?! That kind of money could have completely replaced our oil and coal burning plants wit solar cells and wind turbines nation wide - completely cutting our need for non-renewable resources.

Sad to see where the priorities of the politicians are. So selfishly shortsighted, it going to put the whole of humanity in the hole in the long run.

Fred55

03-16-2011, 04:41 PM

Yes nuclear power has it's drawbacks but for you who keep saying Chernobyl was so bad and such and it will never be habitable for ousands of years...think again. The effects of radiation are not fully understood and chernobyl has been proving this. The worst nuclear disaster in human history has now turned that area into a pristine nature reserve with no abnormalities in the animal and plants.

wilkin250r

03-16-2011, 05:49 PM

Originally posted by bmxican345
It truly is amazing. The US dumped hundreds of billions bailing out entire companies. Do you have any idea how much money that is?! That kind of money could have completely replaced our oil and coal burning plants wit solar cells and wind turbines nation wide - completely cutting our need for non-renewable resources.

Sad to see where the priorities of the politicians are. So selfishly shortsighted, it going to put the whole of humanity in the hole in the long run.

Solar power is actually really expensive, and energy storage (you know, for night-time use) is very difficult on a LARGE scale like that of a power plant.

Wind turbines really aren't popular because they're unreliable, and they take up HUGE acreage, and people don't like them much because gigantic turbine fields are ugly.

Geothermal is great, but they are too location-specific. Hydro power is the same thing, it's great, it's clean, it's reliable, not big and ugly like a giant turbine field. But again, only so many places you can put them, not effective for wide-spread use.

madskrillz2

03-16-2011, 06:20 PM

Originally posted by Fred55
Yes nuclear power has it's drawbacks but for you who keep saying Chernobyl was so bad and such and it will never be habitable for ousands of years...think again. The effects of radiation are not fully understood and chernobyl has been proving this. The worst nuclear disaster in human history has now turned that area into a pristine nature reserve with no abnormalities in the animal and plants.

http://www.rearrange-inc.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/owl-orly.jpg

Well you go ahead and be the lab rat and we'll sit back and watch what happens. As for me, I don't feel like being part of the X-Men just yet.

turdboy

03-16-2011, 08:33 PM

People are freaking about about this. Have you seen how much these iodine pills are going for? To me the big concern is getting Japan back on its feet. They were hit with a huge natural disaster and people are worried whether or not they will be able to go on spring break??? I am ALL for nuclear energy, it's clean, creates mega power, and if we starting building new ones it would create thousands of jobs for years to come. I work in the oil industry now, but have worked in the nuclear industry in the past and let me tell you that radiation is not as scary as it sounds. I once was coming out of containment and had some dust in my hair which was "hot". A simple wash to the head and I was good to go. Anyways, this is a horrible situation, but not lets all go screaming shut down the nukes. This is a reason to say "hey lets upgrade our nukes or build newer smarter plants".

CJM

03-16-2011, 08:50 PM

^ As I said before: Nuke power is all fine and well till people arent there to maintain it down the road or something goes horribly wrong (such as a terrorist attack). Considering how many nuke plants exist to accident ratio its shocking that more accidents dont happen.

Also, the waste they create were freaking storing in a mountain! Real....smart idea...really.

Im sorry I might be biased but I dont feel its a safe source of energy. Way to unstable and the byproducts are VERY bad.

turdboy

03-16-2011, 09:04 PM

Storing in a mountain? You sure about that? I may be wrong but I thought that never went through. Something to do with the actual transportation of the spent fuel rods. I believe most plants are storing it on site and they are running out out of room for it. A mountain...why not? Bore a tunnel deep into the side of a mountain and fill it with used rods. The best defense against radiation is time, distance, and shielding. In a mountain you can have all 3 of these.

wilkin250r

03-16-2011, 09:38 PM

The mountain has some problems, the biggest of which is that Nevada doesn't want the nation's nuclear waste.

Duh, neither does anybody else.

But the mountain does indeed have some problems and possible issues that haven't been resolved. Nevada is pretty close to California, which is kind of a hotspot seismic activity. I'm not sure if you want to put a gigantic pot of nuclear waste in a earthquake zone.

And it hasn't officially gone through, but I believe at the moment, it's the only official target spot, there aren't any other alternatives in the works.

Ichoptop

03-16-2011, 10:33 PM

I design power plants for a living.

Coal is good with about 300 years left in reserve but do put out a certain amount of pollution. Not a lot now days by anyones standards but there is a ton of upkeep and constant modifications to keep up with the new air standards.

Natural Gas is great but there is a lot of transporting and piping issues.

Solar doesnt provide enough power for the price or the room they take up.

Wind produces hardly enough power to keep the lights on around the plant, are unsightly and noisy.

Geothermal can only be site specific and has many issues with returning the used steam/water back into the ground. You usually need to run another heat source like natural gas to keep it running at its potential. The mass of piping is also very expensive.

Hydro produces great amounts of energy but you need a water source and creating the mass of water usually kills off a great land mass. They are also site specific.

Nuclear produces a great amount of energy, is very cost effective and once running the plant can nearly run themselves for the next 20-30 years. It also has a very small footprint. Unfortunatly there is a very small amount of waste that has to be delt with. And of course when something like what happened in Japan pops up it can be bad really quick.

In my back yard I would take a gas powered or nuke powered anyday.

finsteratv

03-16-2011, 10:53 PM

to me i think this is a devastating hit to japan, my question is do you guys think that it may help our economy at all. with need for materials like lumber? i also agree with CJM i know they do alot to stabalize it and protect it from things like terrorist attacks but theres only so much you can do...personally i just see all of the waste and harmful side effects. with the whole economy question i dont mean this as a i dont care question just looking for honest opinion.
and @ the spring break stuff, yeah guys all i care about is my break time :rolleyes: i do care about disasters such as these, not just my own relaxation time..

slightlybent47

03-17-2011, 05:33 AM

Originally posted by brian76708
Stupid 1970s plant that was designed horribly and a bunch of idiots running it without bringing in help. Its not even the core meltdown thats bad its the stored spent rods that are melting down that are uncovered making for a Chernobyl like situation. very sad

Well I hate to tell you this but there are over 160 nuclear plants in the US and 29 of them are exactly like the one in Japan that is melting down. They are made by GE and are the exact design.
I fear that the plant in Japan is going to melt down and given the situation there in, it looks like it will happen.
The real danger is there not telling the whole story. Plus there are two more reactors at the Japanese plant for a total of six reactors, 4 are cortical and the other two are heating up.

Warnerade

03-17-2011, 07:37 AM

Originally posted by brian76708
i just heard on the news that a few years ago the same plant spilled a bunch of nuke waste in the ocean. Looks like they got a pretty bad track record. I also dont think the Japanese take safety as seriously as the USA does as well. Either way they did get a pretty hard 1 2 punch. hahahahahaha, compared to what...DP?

Warnerade

03-17-2011, 07:43 AM

xtremelimit

03-17-2011, 07:46 AM

Originally posted by mx8
Well were all pray that your spring break don't get messed up. And then if we have time were pray for all the people who died in japan.:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

lmao unreal...

250R-Dee

03-19-2011, 02:22 AM

You wanna know makes these disasters so bad??

The rantings hunting media outlets who regurgitate misinformation without concern for the chaos that me be caused by their unethical behavior. Now add this to the fact that sub-moronic japanese elite/politicians try to hide any type of nuclear related issues because of the TWO nuclear bombings that occurred at the end of WWII and you get a really nasty situation. I am 1400 miles south of the affected area but I have several US military friends who are either in the area assisting with the disaster or about to deploy to the area. If any of the equipment that I support goes to the area I will most likely deploy to ***ushima and I will do it with any second guessing. It is easy to sit back and be an armchair quarterback when an issue does not affect you directly.

Educate yourself instead of jumping on every turd that is dropped in the toilet bowl!

Sorry about the rant!

TheLane

03-19-2011, 07:50 AM

Its crazy how many people turn into nuclear physicists when something like this happens.....

**** even my mom would swear she has a phd in it now.

Oh oh and a phd in diplomatic and public relations.

hmm...since everyone else is making up degrees. (or acting like they have one) i think im gonna be an astronaut.:D

Ralph

03-19-2011, 09:41 AM

What happend in Japan is horrible, and I hope we can get everything under control as soon as possible and help japan rebuild as quickly as possible.

Equally important, however, is that we remain calm and make smart decisions for our energy policy. The three mile island incident scared lots of people and surely slowed advancement in the technology and its use.

We need to learn our lessons and address any problems in current plants and continue building new ones. The new generation of plants are even safer (some say up to 100 times).

Nuclear Fun Facts I've collected:

Hyrdoelectric plants (Dams) are the most dangerous energy source there is; having killed a little under 200,000 people throughout time.

Nuclear Plants have killed a little over 4000. (And that was in one incident)
Three mile island killed ZERO. Directly or indirectly.

The total amount of nuclear waste, (as of 2009) created by all US nuclear plants only takes up an area the size of a football field, 3 yards deep. I was also told by a Nuke' Engineer that after only 100 years it is just as radioactive as when we mined it out of the ground. Have not taken the time to verify this.

If all the energy, over your entire life was generated only by nuclear energy, the amount of waste created would be about the size of a softball.

DnB_racing

03-19-2011, 10:21 AM

Originally posted by Ichoptop
I design power plants for a living.

Coal is good with about 300 years left in reserve but do put out a certain amount of pollution. Not a lot now days by anyones standards but there is a ton of upkeep and constant modifications to keep up with the new air standards.

Natural Gas is great but there is a lot of transporting and piping issues.

Solar doesnt provide enough power for the price or the room they take up.

Wind produces hardly enough power to keep the lights on around the plant, are unsightly and noisy.

Geothermal can only be site specific and has many issues with returning the used steam/water back into the ground. You usually need to run another heat source like natural gas to keep it running at its potential. The mass of piping is also very expensive.

Hydro produces great amounts of energy but you need a water source and creating the mass of water usually kills off a great land mass. They are also site specific.

Nuclear produces a great amount of energy, is very cost effective and once running the plant can nearly run themselves for the next 20-30 years. It also has a very small footprint. Unfortunatly there is a very small amount of waste that has to be delt with. And of course when something like what happened in Japan pops up it can be bad really quick.

In my back yard I would take a gas powered or nuke powered anyday. people always forget we have a never ending source of fuel in the form of trash burning, it may never take over fossil fuel, but it definitely is a good supplementary power sorce, and cuts down on wasted land fill space, and its as clean environmentally wise as burning coal,( with all the epa standards that my plant have to follow maybe cleaner)
I really believe we should have more trash plants , ya its not the end all fuel source, but it there and we are wasting it!!

and its a money making business were else does someone pay for your fuel ... they make money taking the trash, money selling the ferrous and non ferrous metals, and then they sell the electricity,

trailrider894

03-19-2011, 12:01 PM

I figure i'll just put in my .02. I am by no means a nuclear engineer or a PH.D Carrying person. I spoke to my uncle who was Manager of the Callaway Nuclear Plant, for several hours about the matter of Japan. He says that what people are missing, is the reality of a meltdown. They are not a huge threat unless the rods are exposed themselves. The Thickness of the containment buildings is beyond your understanding. They consist of several dozen foot thick concrete with steel reinforcement, and plating on the inside and in-between layers. He said that the containment building at the Callaway Plant was made to withstand the impact of a 747 Passenger Jet. Not to mention the direct access to freshwater at all times from any local rivers, or lakes with fresh water. Also, the geological surveying that took place for years. You have to realize they didn't just role uplike the settlers did and say " hey we are gonna put a Nuclear Plant here.". The safety measures taken would really blow your mind, i have toured the plant during a re-fuel, and i feel safer walking around that plant during a re-fuel than i do getting in my car to drive to work. The problem is that too many people are mis-informed and just follow the media, and the media ALWAYS with out a doubt, EVERY SINGLE TIME blows things 9999999999999999999999999% out of proportion. Do your re-search, request a tour, talk to Nuclear Engineers and the people behind the plants before you open your mouth and speak against nuclear energy.

That is my .02, just reminding you guys that what i know is just from what i have seen and heard from workers and engineers behind my local nuclear plant, which is less than 20 miles from my home.

ProspectorJim

03-19-2011, 01:14 PM

Originally posted by madskrillz2
http://www.rearrange-inc.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/owl-orly.jpg

Well you go ahead and be the lab rat and we'll sit back and watch what happens. As for me, I don't feel like being part of the X-Men just yet.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4923342.stm

I don't see any xmen...

250rsforlife

03-19-2011, 05:49 PM

if it blows up then itll solve the overpopulation problem pretty quick:devil: jkjk

CJM

03-19-2011, 07:27 PM

Originally posted by 250rsforlife
if it blows up then itll solve the overpopulation problem pretty quick:devil: jkjk

only if the plant was in china or india :devil:

trailrider894

03-19-2011, 07:30 PM

Originally posted by CJM
only if the plant was in china or india :devil:

Or Mexico..... :chinese:

wilkin250r

03-19-2011, 09:15 PM

Originally posted by Ralph

Hyrdoelectric plants (Dams) are the most dangerous energy source there is; having killed a little under 200,000 people throughout time.

A statistic like this makes me curious on the exact way people die, and how they are attributed to the power plant.

Way back when, construction of dams was an extremely dangerous job. I know that right about 100 people died building the Hoover Dam near Las Vegas, NV. Industrial safety precautions weren't as strict back then (1935) as they are when many of today's nuclear power plants were constructed (60-80s).

Plus, hydro power is one of the main power sources for third-world countries, and their safety practices aren't as strict as ours, resulting in more accidents and deaths during construction of dams as well, which could also contribute to such an alarmingly high statistic.

finsteratv

03-20-2011, 12:22 AM

Originally posted by trailrider894
Or Mexico..... :chinese:
not trying to be racist but....Lmao

slightlybent47

03-20-2011, 06:27 AM

I’m all for helping someone that needs my help but Japan is one of the richest countries in the world. We don’t need to be sending millions of dollars trying to help them out, when we are so far in the whole with Japan in the first place. If we do help them financially then they should forgive some of our debt to there country.
In a way they brought the nuclear disaster on themselves by building the plant in such a venerable area with out an adequate way of controlling the reactors.
I do feel bad for the people that are living under such a government that would lie to them in a manner that they do. The people are taught from birth not to complain and to put there head down and to believe what there told. And there government takes advantage of that fact.
One the other hand our government is not that much better when it comes to the truth ether.
Japan is far from being a third world country and should be able to handle this disaster with little help from others. I mean they have as much money as any country so it’e time for them to start forkin out the cash.

Ralph

03-20-2011, 11:33 AM

Originally posted by wilkin250r
A statistic like this makes me curious on the exact way people die, and how they are attributed to the power plant.

Way back when, construction of dams was an extremely dangerous job. I know that right about 100 people died building the Hoover Dam near Las Vegas, NV. Industrial safety precautions weren't as strict back then (1935) as they are when many of today's nuclear power plants were constructed (60-80s).

Plus, hydro power is one of the main power sources for third-world countries, and their safety practices aren't as strict as ours, resulting in more accidents and deaths during construction of dams as well, which could also contribute to such an alarmingly high statistic.

The deaths came from the direct dam failure, and as you suspect, its mainly from (at the time) third world territories.

Still can't deny that even in nuclear infancy, our biggest disasters were minuscule compared to the learning curve of other energies.

RATPACK Z400

03-20-2011, 11:46 AM

Nuclear plants are going to be hard to build in US cause of this ! dems/liberals are going to stop any building of them and have for 30 yrs now. We need nuclear plants here in US but dems/liberals will fight it tooth/nail till the end to stop it they rather TRY wind/solar/Natural gas. Natural gas is probably the worst IMO it pollutes ground water(will be buying water like oil in future if we dont stop !) with the fracking/drilling (puts 500gal.s of water mixed with 900 chemical in ground to get gas out) Watch GASLAND the movie ! wind power takes too much acre,s to supply anuff power,solar way too expensive and inafficate at night/cloudy days . we could cut are gas prices in half if there were more Nuclear plants in Us !