Race wire digrams with wires in colors

[DnB_racing]

here is a er with key installed, green wire mod, fan installed,and 24volt start, with teather and push button start.Tors bypassed

*for a ER to R conversion go to page 5 last pic on page

EDIT the one thing to remember before any wiring is there are many ways to do the same thing.. do what is easiest for you!!

and remember that Honda's grounds are small,
to compensate for this they use multiple greens, if you remove to many of the greens, you will have corrosion issues, caused by poor impedance to ground, leave in as many grounds as you can to avoid this!!!

have fun with it and dont be afraid of wiring!!

[DnB_racing]

here is a +06R with key removed and teather installed with fan
tors bypassed

[DnB_racing]

and here is a 06 up with absolutely every thing except the TPS removed, this is about as bare as you can run, it does have teather , this is full race no frills.. no tors

grey/red TORS wire jumped to green...

[RadekPL]

Great post ! I cut my harness on Saturday and it's pretty similar to your Bare Race one, but mine has also Temp. sensor and Fan Motor. I wired red wire straight from the rectifier to the fan, cuz I have no Condenser.

[DnB_racing]

the only issue without the condenser,unless it has a battery is at idle your fan will be slow, and speed of the motor will control speed of the fan... and you might shorten the life of the fan motor with all the surges, but the reg/rec might help

[joep1219]

Do you have the same diagrams for 04-05?

[DnB_racing]

04/05 lites removed

[DnB_racing]

04/05 full race cut with teather

[Scro]

I added this to the original post in the sticky.

[MX450]

can you do an 04/05 race cut leaving fan and condensor?

[DnB_racing]

here is one for 04 05 with fan and hot start and condensor with temp sensor

[DnB_racing]

04/05 with fan with no carb heater and the fan wired to run all the time...

obviously you can jump it were you want.. you can just remove the wire from the sensor and ground it.. its the same in the end, but you need to power the black from the red

Im just showing the easiest to draw, and I like to keep the key plug and splice after it in case I want to reinstall key, but the logic is there you can jump multiple spots

[DnB_racing]

04 05 with fan and ECT

[DnB_racing]

04/05 this is an easy way to ground the ECT

[MX450]

cool thanks

[RadekPL]

What's the purpose of the condenser ? It helps with firing-up the bike and running the fan, doesn't it ?

[DnB_racing]

Originally posted by RadekPL
What's the purpose of the condenser ? It helps with firing-up the bike and running the fan, doesn't it ? the condenser and the reg/rec are for the auxiliary circuits,

the reg/rec converts to a dc and the condenser acts as a filter type of battery it evens out the dc wave and helps send a even flow think of it as a type of faucet to make a steady supply to the fan or lites, and its feed from its own winding wires from the stator,

the spark plug comes from another set of wires from the stator and is sent to the cdi and to the coil and the voltage is bumped up very high sometimes as high as 60000 volts but almost no amps..

they are completely different types of circuits, the fan and lites use amps and the spark plug uses voltage

im sure that someone can describe it better... but this is a general brakedown!!

[robinson446]

ok now im not sure i have an all stock harness in my 2005 trx 450 r now i took wires off kill switch light switch key and clutch now my problem is i purchased a race harness and trying to install the race harness and take out the stock one, but the carb has wires coming off it they are heater and throtle poss sensor ,now ,my harness i dont think hooks up to any carb stuff wow im at a loss help please

[DnB_racing]

Originally posted by robinson446
ok now im not sure i have an all stock harness in my 2005 trx 450 r now i took wires off kill switch light switch key and clutch now my problem is i purchased a race harness and trying to install the race harness and take out the stock one, but the carb has wires coming off it they are heater and throtle poss sensor ,now ,my harness i dont think hooks up to any carb stuff wow im at a loss help please so your saying that your new harness has these wires?
Ive ran many 450s that have had different carbs installed without the TPS, and to be honest I didnt notice the difference!!!
the TPS is a rheostat in the carb that give a different resistance to the cdi at different throttle positions to adjust spark for high and low speed operation,
I would just put the new harness on and run it!!
I have tried running it before with a resistor in it to mimic full throttle and also tried to mimic a low throttle position and could not tell any difference when resistors were removed,

I have a friend that has ran his Yamaha 450 for years without it hooked up and no symptoms, its not something Id recomend to strive for in cutting down a harness, but it wouldn't stop me from buying a quad that has ran with it disconnected!!

OR:: find a new harness, or strip your current one down to what you want!..... here is a full race no TPS does your new one match this?

[robinson446]

SO RED AND BLACK WIRE FROM KEY SWITCH NEEDS TO BE TIED TOGETHER AND ALL WILL BE OK RIGHT ? AND IF SO THANK YOU FOR YOUR HELP

[DnB_racing]

on any non ER the key switch can be removed if your not running any fan or lites...just unplug the connector, but if you have any auxiliary circuits then it needs to be jumped for there to be power to fan, lites,

on the +06 Er's on the electric start models the key should be left in, it can be removed, but should be replaced with some sort of toggle, to keep the battery from discharging, its just easier to keep the key!!

[DnB_racing]

here is how the carb safety system works

[DnB_racing]

here is a full schematic showing all wires along with the modified in red to show the wires to keep and the one that can be removed on the ER

[florentino]

i have a 2005 trx and i wonder if i should bypass the tps.

i am new to the trx quads.

i did bypass the tps on my yamaha and it help in many ways.

[DnB_racing]

Originally posted by florentino
i have a 2005 trx and i wonder if i should bypass the tps.

i am new to the trx quads.

i did bypass the tps on my yamaha and it help in many ways. ive been tying to find a reason for it on a stock cdi, and I cant tell any difference with it connected or not, ive used it both ways on the drag strip and had absolutely no difference in my times.....

i can see a purpose for it on a adjustable rev box, but not really on the stock....

now, when they go fi then yes its definitely needed,

I dont see any real benefit from removing it either,other then less wires for your race harness

but what type of results did you see with it removed?

[florentino]

Originally posted by DnB_racing
ive been tying to find a reason for it on a stock cdi, and I cant tell any difference with it connected or not, ive used it both ways on the drag strip and had absolutely no difference in my times.....

i can see a purpose for it on a adjustable rev box, but not really on the stock....

now, when they go fi then yes its definitely needed,

I dont see any real benefit from removing it either,other then less wires for your race harness

but what type of results did you see with it removed?

its not so much the porwer band. its just that some times they fail so one less thing to worry about. i like to removed any thing i can on any bike. less things to worry about.
if someone tells me how to by pass it?
it works great on the yamaha. dont know on hondas. what set up are the pros running?

[Stickman400]

I didn't really want to dig this back up but I tried to cut my harness down myself to the 2nd diagram on page 1 and now it won't start. And now that I look at it I think that was for a 450R, not 450ER. Well mine is an '06 ER that I converted to R. Would that diagram work for me or would I need a different one? I want to keep the fan and TPS if I could, otherwise I would use the one above.

[DnB_racing]

Originally posted by Stickman400
I didn't really want to dig this back up but I tried to cut my harness down myself to the 2nd diagram on page 1 and now it won't start. And now that I look at it I think that was for a 450R, not 450ER. Well mine is an '06 ER that I converted to R. Would that diagram work for me or would I need a different one? I want to keep the fan and TPS if I could, otherwise I would use the one above. if you want to keep any electronics, fan for exanple. you need the regulator rectifier,

and the reason yours wont run is you need to power the 4wire connector with the black wire...

the er and r use one different power wire to the cdi... notice the stock R has no black wire like the ER does

right now for you the best solution would be to add a condesnsor,
to power the fan and cdi from your stator

[Stickman400]

Alright so it's either install a condensor or remove my fan and tps. Would removing the fan hurt the engine if it got too hot or would the radiator keep it cool as long as I'm moving? That's the only reason I don't want to take the fan off, and I don't really care about the TPS since nothing negative will happen from removing it as long as I keep everything lubed.

[Stickman400]

I guess I should also mention that it's already a killswitch only style wiring harness with no key and the fan was wired to be on all the time. The PO just balled all of the wire for the battery and everthing up at the back in front of the airbox. It didn't have the green wire mod or TORS bypass, but I also tried doing those 2 mods when I attempted to cut it down.

I basically want:
Green wire mod
TORS bypass
TPS on
Fan always on
Killswitch only

[DnB_racing]

Originally posted by Stickman400
Alright so it's either install a condensor or remove my fan and tps. Would removing the fan hurt the engine if it got too hot or would the radiator keep it cool as long as I'm moving? That's the only reason I don't want to take the fan off, and I don't really care about the TPS since nothing negative will happen from removing it as long as I keep everything lubed. im not sure what type of riding you do,

but if desert riding at all you need fan, or any long term running, for MX its ususlly not needed, if your a trial rider that runs all day then Id recommend keeping fan... so it really depends on how and were you ride

[Stickman400]

Ok that's what I was thinking. I do quite a bit of trail riding on it so I probably want to keep it. Do you know if an '04-'05 450R harness will work with my '06 ER to R conversion if I bought the condensor?

[DnB_racing]

Originally posted by Stickman400
Ok that's what I was thinking. I do quite a bit of trail riding on it so I probably want to keep it. Do you know if an '04-'05 450R harness will work with my '06 ER to R conversion if I bought the condensor? you would need to use the 06 connectors for your cdi, the +06 alternator puts out a little different peak voltages then the 05 cdi is made for, so you really should keep the +06 cdi.... if youve got a complete 06R harness you would be better then an 04/05 harness


I still think with a little work you would be better off with the 06 harness youve alredy started working on.... Ill have some time tonight to put some thought into what youve got and what you will need, to get you back in business

[Stickman400]

Alright, thanks.

[Stickman400]

Just had another thought. If I need a condensor can I use one for a '04-'05 or would I need an '06+ one? They have different part numbers so I'm assuming they are different internally.

[DnB_racing]

Originally posted by Stickman400
Just had another thought. If I need a condensor can I use one for a '04-'05 or would I need an '06+ one? They have different part numbers so I'm assuming they are different internally. Im just thinking aloud here as Ive not really researched this Idea, but since both the +06 and the 04/05 caps (condenser) are in series with the voltage regulator there voltage ratings would be close enough to use either one, and Im thinking different part numbers are for connector reasons, or slight different rating

is it too late to reinstall your reg/rec? and use a capacitor in series with it?
this would give you your most reliable form of auxiliary circuits, for your fan along with the cdi 12 volt power that the +06 cdi requires to have a running quad,
even tho the ignition part of the cdi has its own high voltage windings from the stator for the coil spark the low voltage side of the cdi is still needs 12 volts for the +06 cdi to give a run circuit,

I think adding these would be the most reliable way to do it, and easiest on the cdi

if you still have it I can draw you up a schematic for wiring it all in for what you need, and still using your 06er harness with a cap added for your needs, would probably be the least expensive and least headache way to go

[Stickman400]

Well I asked that because I managed to snag a '06 450R harness from a buddy for cheap, but it didn't have the condensor, so I went to ebay and only found one for a '04-'05. So I guess only need to plug in the harness and then wire in or plug in the condensor right?

[DnB_racing]

yes that will work.... if you need anything let me know and I will be glad to try and help:)

[Stickman400]

Will do, thanks!

[Stickman400]

Ok, so with my '06 450R harness I should be able to follow the 2nd schematic on page 1 to get everything I want right?

[florentino]

i have a 2005 trx and i have the fan on all the time.

can i removed the voltage regulator and have keep the fan on?

[DnB_racing]

Originally posted by Stickman400
Ok, so with my '06 450R harness I should be able to follow the 2nd schematic on page 1 to get everything I want right? yes you can follow that schematic,

but from what I remember you will still want the +06 R cdi...


I apologize its been a while since Ive done any conversions, and Ive done so many different combinations that I had to jog the brain cells..

but with a complete 06 r harness along with an R regulator and a 06r cdi and a cap (any year) you can follw that drawing for your needs

[Stickman400]

Well I guess my friend doesn't know what he's talking about because it was a harness for an '06 ER just like my old one. I tried wiring it up with a condensor and according to your diagram but it still won't start. My fan spins when I'm kicking it over but I pulled the plug and held it against the header and kicked it over to see if it even had spark and it didn't. I checked the wires going from the stator to the connectors and they all seem fine. I'm about to give up and send it to Baldwin or something, this wiring crap gets annoying as hell if you can't get it to work in 2 or 3 tries.

[DnB_racing]

Originally posted by Stickman400
Well I guess my friend doesn't know what he's talking about because it was a harness for an '06 ER just like my old one. I tried wiring it up with a condensor and according to your diagram but it still won't start. My fan spins when I'm kicking it over but I pulled the plug and held it against the header and kicked it over to see if it even had spark and it didn't. I checked the wires going from the stator to the connectors and they all seem fine. I'm about to give up and send it to Baldwin or something, this wiring crap gets annoying as hell if you can't get it to work in 2 or 3 tries. do you have an er cdi or r

and which diagram did you follow

it sounds like you have the low voltage problem all set for the fan


but it also sounds like the low voltage to the cdi isn't connected correct...remember if using the er cdi you need to also bring the wire from cap to the black wire on the cdi also that same connector on the cdi needs a ground

im sure its something small like a missed wire or ground thats causing you issue.... you can do it

[Stickman400]

I wonder if I need to cross the wires for the TORS or the neutral position sensor. I cut them both off and then taped them up. Surely they wouldn't keep the CDI from sending out spark would they?

[DnB_racing]

Originally posted by Stickman400
I wonder if I need to cross the wires for the TORS or the neutral position sensor. I cut them both off and then taped them up. Surely they wouldn't keep the CDI from sending out spark would they? yes the tors will keep you from gettin spark thats the reason I say you need to power the connector with the black wire in the cdi

[Stickman400]

Alright, grounded the TORS and jumped power to the black wire going into CDI and it still won't start. Still doesn't spark. I've done everything short of cutting all the sheathing and tape off and tracing every wire to make sure it's goin wehere it should be going. Do I need to splice some of the wires that went back to the battery to keep something in check?

[DnB_racing]

do you still have the reg/rec..

as far as battery..no you dont need the battery...

which schematic did you use? I need to know what you got and I promise we can get it ... its something small im sure.. but I need you to explain as much as possible so we can narrow down the problem

do you have a multi meter? once I figure out what youve got Ill have you check for continuity

with your multi meter check the black wire and the black/white wire and any spot possible and make sure that there is NO continuity to ground

keep the faith ..Im sure your getting frustrated, but you WILL get it,

on your cdi the connector that has the throttle sensor wires,originally 4 wires, you still need 2 wires the black, for 12 volt power that should actually at someplace to jump your key be spliced to the red from your reg/rec capacitor wire and one of the tors wires to go to ground, It doesnt matter if you use the pink/black or the grey/red, but one of those 2 wires MUST be grounded to the cdi

[Stickman400]

Yes I still have the rectifier. And I was just wondering if I need to splice some of the wires that go back where the battery was in case they hold power that needs ran back up front. I used the 2nd schematic on the first page. Yes I have a multimeter. And on the CDI I grounded the grey/red wire to the ground on the same connector that runs to the junction of grounds.

[DnB_racing]

FOR A ( ER TO R) CONVERSION FOLLOW THIS DRAWING


this drawing is the best way to power the ER cdi

notice one side of the cdi on a er cdi needs 12 volts,,,, this is different then the r cdi which doesnt need the cdi powered

I used a R schematic but drew in the black wire needed to power the cdi on a er cdi..

this wiring method has been tested and proven to be better then other methods that are not using a reg/rec and a capacitor..

after doing several of these conversions now.....I recommend using reg/rec and add a capacitor, a much more reliable method

ER TO R CONVERSION

[Stickman400]

I have it wired just like that pic. You do wire the red and black in with the black/white don't you?

[DnB_racing]

Originally posted by Stickman400
I have it wired just like that pic. You do wire the red and black in with the black/white don't you? for your situation with the reg /rec still installed and with a cap wire the black to the red hot wire from reg/rec just like the diagram above,

[Stickman400]

I tapped into the power wire that's over by the other plugs on the right side of the machine. Where it goes into a plug, I just cut it in half and spliced the power side into a black wire that I ran over to the black wire that goes into the CDI. Another thing I can think of is that I've been using a few scotch lock style connectors to save some time. Should I be using butt connectors on the wires that carry power? Doing that on the grounds wouldn't matter would it?

[Stickman400]

Alright, I got it running. I'm not sure what it was that was the problem because I went through everything and used butt connectors where I could and made sure all the wires were connected exactly like your schematic. I did change one thing though that may have been it. On your schematic where the black/white goes between the red and black wires I thought you had to wire the black/white, red and black all together. But you have to wire the red and black and then the black/white and green seperate. After I did that I checked if I had spark and I did so I put the tank on and it fired up in a couple kicks. I did have a little scare when I noticed my fan wasn't running but after I tore it back apart I realized the ground I used wasn't grounded. So I just ran it to the ground on the frame at the coil.

Anyway thanks for all the help DnB, you saved me alot of money.

[DnB_racing]

Im glad you got it!!

not only you save money, but you also got a good understanding of your Quad, which could save you later down the road,

congradulations on figuring it out:)

[florentino]

ok i know the 2006 and up has the green wire mod to get more rpm's

i was just told that there is a way to by pass the rev limiter on a 2005 trx 450r is this true?? that would be with the stock rev box

[DnB_racing]

Originally posted by florentino
ok i know the 2006 and up has the green wire mod to get more rpm's

i was just told that there is a way to by pass the rev limiter on a 2005 trx 450r is this true?? that would be with the stock rev box not any way I know, and I have dissected the cdi looking to learn how it works, and unless you open it up and change resistors then there isn't anyway that im aware to alter the stock 04/05 cdi sorry:(

[Balaz_73*00]

Digging this goody up. So I've finally built the courage up. When eliminating wires, do you just snip them right at the plug? pull it out (that worries me)? leave 4-5 inches and just wrap the unused part up when retaping?

[DnB_racing]

I completely remove them pin and all and rebuild harness, but do what you feel comfortable with

the pins can easily be removed from connector, each pin has a fin that keeps it from pulling out, simply locate the fin on the pin and insert a needle to compress the fin away from the plastic connector and the pin pulls right out of the connector

by doing this if I Want to go back to stock I can simply reinstall the whole wire with no splicing

[Balaz_73*00]

Oh I see. I'll have to look closely at how that works to understand what you mean, I'm not familiar. Thanks!

[Balaz_73*00]

WOW what a mess. Literally took me 5 hrs to do this. I managed to get it to work exactly how I wanted first try but man, I don't know if I'll do that again. That was exhausting

[desratt]

tell me about the diode. I see you removed them. what do they do? in the er's. i know that by definition they only allow electrons to flow 1 direction. but why would we need that?