100% Water Ran Vehicle

[Brauap]

Hey guys! With the gas prices so high, I've been thinking about attempting to turn my 1987 Ford Ranger (2.0L Inline 4, 5 spd. 2x4) into running completely on water (or hydrogen).

Has anyone researched this topic? I have found many kits where it runs half water half gas, but I'd like to run on 100% hydrogen. Think about this: in the morning, pull over your garden hose, stick it in your gas tank, and fill it up!

How difficult and expensive do you think the conversion may be?

Thank You!
Colton W.

[CJM]

I looked into it-bottom line it turned out to either be a bunch of bs with those kits they sell or so much work it wasnt worth it.

Find a small diesel out of a VW TDI or a toyota and slap it in there-excellent MPG and plenty of power

[Brauap]

Diesel is $4.00 a gallon.. :(

[TCracin440ex]

Originally posted by Brauap
Diesel is $4.00 a gallon.. :(

yes diesel might be that high but you dont realize you can get better mpg out of them.

my stepdads stock 03 duramax which is a heavy truck is getting 21-22mpg which is awsome for a 7000lb truck.

[Brauap]

However, now you got me thinking about a diesel swap. A 1.6 or even a 1.9 TDI swap would be pretty cool I think..

what kind of gas milage do you think I could get with such a small truck?

[nkillian9]

just get u a small mid 90s forein truck like a nissan or toyota or an early 90s izuzu all thes trucks get over thirty miles to the gallon and have good power for thier size i have a 97 nissan and average 31 miles to the gallon with a 400 pound quad in the back on stop and go type terrain average closer to 35 on long distance drives with gas going up u couldnt buy this truck from me for 5 times the blue book on it

[250x_kyle]

Originally posted by Brauap
However, now you got me thinking about a diesel swap. A 1.6 or even a 1.9 TDI swap would be pretty cool I think..

what kind of gas milage do you think I could get with such a small truck?

gearing and weight difference is where it would be at.

[JForestZ34]

Originally posted by Brauap
Hey guys! With the gas prices so high, I've been thinking about attempting to turn my 1987 Ford Ranger (2.0L Inline 4, 5 spd. 2x4) into running completely on water (or hydrogen).

Has anyone researched this topic? I have found many kits where it runs half water half gas, but I'd like to run on 100% hydrogen. Think about this: in the morning, pull over your garden hose, stick it in your gas tank, and fill it up!

How difficult and expensive do you think the conversion may be?

Thank You!
Colton W.


Never gonna happen... I do know there are some hydrogen cars out there.. Just not many.. All the gas companies would loose their shirt.. And plus just imagine how much the government would charge us for water.. :eek:


James

[Brauap]

We're looking at a 3000lb vehicle with stock gearing.. with a 1.6 TDI what kind of mileage do you think I could expect?

[Brauap]

Originally posted by JForestZ34
Never gonna happen... I do know there are some hydrogen cars out there.. Just not many.. All the gas companies would loose their shirt.. And plus just imagine how much the government would charge us for water.. :eek:


James

I was thinking the same thing.. is a majority of the cars in the U.S. ran on water.. water would probably be $3.50-4.00 a gallon as well. Man.. don't you hate how they have us by the balls?? :mad:

[feuerstack411]

Originally posted by Brauap
Diesel is $4.00 a gallon.. :(

VW TDI's get around 40-50mpg, and I have seen 70mpg out of them

[krt400ex]

Originally posted by Brauap
Diesel is $4.00 a gallon.. :(


yes it is but a tdi out of a jetta is looking at anywhere between 50 and 60pmg. and that is a fact

[Brauap]

How much do you think I could pick one up for?? I couldn't imagine getting 50 MILES TO THE GALLON! :eek:

[CJM]

50mpg is out of a car, Id expect 30mpg out of a smaller truck tho.

Call up a junkyard, google people who convert them, etc.

[honda400ex2003]

ive done a few things with the electrolysis and could make some hydrogen but it takes quite a bit of power to do so. hydrogen is great since it goes back to h20 after burns. it however quite volatile in big quantities as a result, thus storage of it can be dangerous without having very high pressure tanks like a scuba tank or something. it would take quite a bit of pressure to pump enough into a cylinder to burn effectively also and from my testing (which was very very limited with a cup of water and a 9 volt battery) it didnt make enough over a 1 minute period to hardly make it effective to collect the hydrogen in a plastic bag that was held over the cup to capture the gas as it escaped. ( this works because the hydrogen will rise above the air until it is caught.)

to get a pressure built up in a tank would require alot of water and power, needing at least a 12 or 24 volt system to put out alot of power. im not sure that a regular car battery and alternator would be sufficient to supply enough power.

however i have not done enough work with it to really do anything sufficient to prove any of my ideas. that was just some experimenting when i was bored and thinking about doing something with this a few years ago.

I have also tried a completely running a 4 stroke on air without any changes.. that didnt go to well either haha. it would take a bit of work to get that working too.

steve

[426kidz]

Give it a good ten years and you will be surprised on what the motors will be running on...O and for diesel guys...is it really cheaper to spend a couple more dollars a gallon and get 3 more miles a gallon...I dont think so, all this diesel stuff is so over rated..I know there awesome but enough with the ooooo they get way better mileage hahaha just not true your payin for it;) :D

[CJM]

A diesel has more torque and drives differently than a gas vehicle.

Why people need diesel trucks is they haul way better than gas trucks and also get 16-20mpg while doing it-gas truck gets 14 if your lucky.

Cars its even better, a TDI VW gets 40mpg, vs maybe 30 if your lucky for a similar gas one.

So its alot more than 3mpg.

[TCracin440ex]

Originally posted by 426kidz
Give it a good ten years and you will be surprised on what the motors will be running on...O and for diesel guys...is it really cheaper to spend a couple more dollars a gallon and get 3 more miles a gallon...I dont think so, all this diesel stuff is so over rated..I know there awesome but enough with the ooooo they get way better mileage hahaha just not true your payin for it;) :D

you my friend have no clue what you are talking about. diesels are taking over. im really suprized the big mfg's havent gone to half ton diesels yet. i wasnt a diesel fan til i rode in 1 and seen how they pull & drive. yes you might pay more for a diesel in the beginning but the life expectancy of a diesel is 300K plus. gas engine your lucky if you get that kinda mileage and even then if you do the motor will be weak and wont run like a fresh motor. diesels will run 300k and still feel like a new motor.

how do you figure your paying a couple more dollars/gallon of diesel and getting 3 more miles to the gallon. my ecsb silverado 1500 with the 5.3 is getting 14mpg average. and thats me babying it not towing nothing. my stepdads duramax gets 22mpg with 34inch tires and heavy wheels. while towing our 26ft boat the truck will average 19mpg and thats towing a heavy arse boat. his truck is stock with the exception of an edge juice with attitude. stock everything else. and still getting 22mpg. with exhaust, and a CAI he could expect anything from 25-28mpg out of that heavy truck.

IMO i hope diesel goes to 10-15bucks a gallon and gas stays arround the 5ish range because ill be the first mofo inline to trade my gas motor 1500 in for a duramax diesel. because when gas prices do drop the value of the diesel pickup will go back up again

my mom bought my stepdads duramax when diesel was like 4.79/gal off a used car lot paid 14,000 cash money for it with 113k on an 03. the man said i cant give diesels away because the price of fuel. that same truck 3 years later would sell for anywhere from 17-20k because of the condition its in, and the market for diesels now is very high

[smr]

Originally posted by TCracin440ex
you my friend have no clue what you are talking about. diesels are taking over. im really suprized the big mfg's havent gone to half ton diesels yet. i wasnt a diesel fan til i rode in 1 and seen how they pull & drive. yes you might pay more for a diesel in the beginning but the life expectancy of a diesel is 300K plus. gas engine your lucky if you get that kinda mileage and even then if you do the motor will be weak and wont run like a fresh motor. diesels will run 300k and still feel like a new motor.

how do you figure your paying a couple more dollars/gallon of diesel and getting 3 more miles to the gallon. my ecsb silverado 1500 with the 5.3 is getting 14mpg average. and thats me babying it not towing nothing. my stepdads duramax gets 22mpg with 34inch tires and heavy wheels. while towing our 26ft boat the truck will average 19mpg and thats towing a heavy arse boat. his truck is stock with the exception of an edge juice with attitude. stock everything else. and still getting 22mpg. with exhaust, and a CAI he could expect anything from 25-28mpg out of that heavy truck.

IMO i hope diesel goes to 10-15bucks a gallon and gas stays arround the 5ish range because ill be the first mofo inline to trade my gas motor 1500 in for a duramax diesel. because when gas prices do drop the value of the diesel pickup will go back up again

my mom bought my stepdads duramax when diesel was like 4.79/gal off a used car lot paid 14,000 cash money for it with 113k on an 03. the man said i cant give diesels away because the price of fuel. that same truck 3 years later would sell for anywhere from 17-20k because of the condition its in, and the market for diesels now is very high




seen the argument many times...I have owned diesel trucks for many years. This I will say. If you think you can buy a diesel and drive it till it wears out and come out cheaper than you can with gas then you are 100% wrong. I love my diesel and own one because I do a lot of long distance towing.

First off...You will pay about 8,000 more for the diesel up front. You will get a little better fuel millage but that is offset by the higher prices.

Next you have maintence. I change oil in both my gasser and diesel at 5,000 miles. It's about 3 times higher in the diesel.
You will also wear tires out about twice as fast and they will run you about 1/3 more for ten ply.

Tadays gas motors will run well over 200,000 if taken care of. During that 200,000 you will not really do much but change the oil. Now on a diesel you will replace the fuel filter at least 20 times...not to mention air filter and most likely you will install new injectors.

guys, I love my cummins but I'm not gonna BS anybody. It ain't no cheaper to drive a diesel.

[400exrider707]

I agree with SMR.

The only thing saving me a ton of money doing this right now is running a vegistroke system on my 6.0. I EASILY get over 100 miles to a single gallon of diesel, because I'm running on oil primarily. That saves me a TON at the pump.

Maintenance is more money and believe what you will, but stuff goes wrong with diesels just as much as gas cars, and in fact MORE in some cases (modding them, like everyone does), and if you have to pay a diesel tech to work on it, it will cost more than gas as well due to the tools and training the techs need to have.

I still wouldn't give my truck up for anything.

I WOULD however buy a TDI VW in a heartbeat. Just waiting for a good price. Realistic mileage numbers are 40-50. Over 50 you're really driving like a putz and TRYING to get that mileage. Most are around 45 though. Still excellent.

You know, there are diesel powered rangers floating around too.

[CJM]

Gas engines if you do the bare minimum:
-Tune up every 75-100k to include timing belt if it has one. Plugs and wires mostly tho (and changing fluids and other war items like sensors or such) if it has a timing chain. Belt-1500 bucks, chain expect about 500-800 depending on car and what needs to be done
-Your assorted filters over lifetime of car (air, oil, cabin if it has, trans, etc) $250-300 depending
-Trans tune up $250+ dependingon who does it and if its just a drain or a full flush
-Take into account your alternator or starter may go maybe 1-2x, thats a 250+ dollar job most places

Now Diesel
-Oil change alone is $35+ b/c you need like 15qts of oil and filter. 1 gallon of shell rotella is 11 bucks, filter is like 5. Can however change oil at 10k if you want to
-Injectors, need replacing every 100k roughly-thats $800+ or more depending on truck, parts, etc
-You dont have to use 10 ply tires unless your HAULING large loads regularly, 8 ply D range would work. But expect to buy them every 35-50k and spend about a grand on them.
-Fuel filters usually easy to change, most places charge 100-200 bucks or so.
-Things breaking, etc over life of truck 5k?

Your still coming ahead on the diesel. They usually do not break down and last longer. I do agree todays cars can last for well over 250K easy, but things wear out like anything else on both diesels and gassers.

Bottom line is the diesel will cost more overtime to a degree-but it will get better mpg.

Lets say you drive an avg of 15k per year like most people do. Now lets figure gas costs 4/gal and diesel is 5/gal, the diesel truck gets 18 mpg but the gasser gets 14. Overall its slightly a wash in the end when you pay for the cost of the diesel. gasser at 14mpg would cost you roughly 4k, diesel might cost the same roughly but your getting 4mpg better.

Really it comes down to preference. Ive driven vehicles with both engines and both performed well. I can say that the ford gasser trucks I drove lasted for eons and are still going at my former place of employment and the one I drove had close to 300k and the other one had over 300k, the chevys had similar miles too-not to many issues either. The diesel trucks were all fords and they too had no real issues and the one old beat up flatbed from like 1994 has close to 500k and is still going strong and NO ONE changed the injectors in the last 200k, fuel filter or did much else besides change the oil and put gas in it cause its a yard truck and only goes to the junkyard these days-yet it always starts and keeps on trucking.

So whats it really worth to ya?

[426kidz]

No, your just wrong when it comes to diesel...HMMM ok let me buy a diesel and pay double what I would pay for the truck, than let me pay alot more for the gas...trust me do the math. I had an f150 pulled everything I wanted got 17mpf and my buddies have diesels and they get 20-25 depending but they pay more for the gas so that 5-8 mpg some times less the way they drive, just doesnt seem to be legit unless you tow and haul for aliving...and most dont they usualy drive around rollin coal, yeah its all good and cool but dont say your saving tons of money or any at all because your not, I am not argueing just telling the truth. Than lets say you blow a turbo thats another couple grand for a good one. the cost of parts are always double or triple that of a gas vehical. And if it cost more to keep running over the years than how does cheaper gas make it all that much better? But there is no telling the diesel guys anything cuz there just too cool.;) not cjm the other guy*.

[400exrider707]

Originally posted by 426kidz
No, your just wrong when it comes to diesel...HMMM ok let me buy a diesel and pay double what I would pay for the truck, than let me pay alot more for the gas...trust me do the math. I had an f150 pulled everything I wanted got 17mpf and my buddies have diesels and they get 20-25 depending but they pay more for the gas so that 5-8 mpg some times less the way they drive, just doesnt seem to be legit unless you tow and haul for aliving...and most dont they usualy drive around rollin coal, yeah its all good and cool but dont say your saving tons of money or any at all because your not, I am not argueing just telling the truth. Than lets say you blow a turbo thats another couple grand for a good one. the cost of parts are always double or triple that of a gas vehical. And if it cost more to keep running over the years than how does cheaper gas make it all that much better? But there is no telling the diesel guys anything cuz there just too cool.;) not cjm the other guy*.

The guys who owned or currently own diesel probably don't disagree about them not really saving money, it's just that most of your information is wrong and it makes it hard to just generally agree with you. 25mpg diesels are few and far between in trucks. I've seen a COUPLE, and I mean a COUPLE get close to that, but they're certainly not towing anything.

The big differences in owning my diesel truck over the gas trucks I've owned, towing is a lot safer, regardless of weight. The truck can just physically handle a lot more. My buddies truck breaks down, I don't have to struggle towing it home with a V8 1/2 ton, I just hook the trailer up and go.

The biggest difference is my fuel savings because of running an alternative fuel.


Also you may pay a lot more for a diesel truck intially, but guess what, comes time to sell and you're goign to get a lot more back out of it than a gas truck. Older diesels are holding their value even more now because of the modern diesel with emissions equipment. Eveyrone is trying to hold on to the classics, the 12v's and the 7.3 powerstrokes. Their values are through the roof.

I get rougly 15mpg in my 06 6.leaker. It's not great, but I'm sure a gas powered truck weighing over 7klbs wouldn't get that. Plus I have dyno proven low to mid 400hp at the wheels, drive like an idiot and still get the same mileage. No way would a 450hp gas job F250 be getting mileage like that.


Back to the topic at hand, water powered vehicles. I personally believe most of the stuff out there for it is a hoax. I think you could use it as a supplement, but not a full power, and to do it right will cost some money.

[426kidz]

agree to disagree...I wont be wasteing my money on one anytime soon so Im happyy:D
here is one of a million thing i found covering the issue...

Ah the old gas deisel debate ! I shall jump in, Firstly, there are some RV forums on the web that dissect this argument pretty good. I have a 1 ton utility bed gmc w/ the 8.1L gas currently and have had deisel work trucks before. The big thing people don't look at is that while deisels can give you some phenomenal mpg, this is unloaded. Load the truck down and/or drive faster than 70mph and that deisel mpg drops more dramatically than a gas. My 8.1L gas pickuper got about 12mpg then I added another 5000 lbs and I'm down to around 10 mpg. Guys I know that have deisel work trucks got up to 20 mpg empty but when they added the utility bed, pipe racks and all the parts they are down to maybe 14mpg. Everyone wants a deisel and the dealers won't discount, nobody wanted the big gas and I got a really good deal. Deisel engine in a pickup is at least $5000.00 more plus the dealers won't deal. The way I figger you have to drive at least 100k miles to break even, but I always get rid of my trucks just before 100k. Used to be that co's w/ large fleets of trucks bought deisels because there was less maintenance, just replace oil and fuel filters but it's the same way w/ gas now, most don't need anything until 100k. I say you are either a gas man or a deisel man, just don't try to say that deisel's make more sense economically. You need to do the math, also consider more stopping for fuel w/ a gas, so check the tank size. Also deisel is not as readily available as gas, when I had a deisel I had to make sure to keep it filled because the stations that carried deisel closed down after 10 p.m. Shouldn't be a problem touring out on the interstate however

[smr]

CJM makes a good point and breaks it down good. ALthough I think he is way off on the timing belt....come on man. $1500.00 who you got doing your timing belts Roger Penske?

I agree with most of your other parts break down.

I had a 4.8 ford that I towed my 16ft enclosed with....I had over 200,000 miles on it when I sold it and the only thing I ever did was install spark plugs at about 150,000. Never had any other problems.

CJM said it best when he said preference.

I drive a diesel because I haul cattle, horses and quads long distances. I've owned 3 diesels and I'm here to tell you they are no cheaper to operate than gas...they just do a lot better job of towing.

[CJM]

Im quoting dealer prices SMR, most of the time they gouge you for a full tune up when you get it done too lol. So okay maybe 800?

At the shop I worked for timing belt and tune up were roughly 800. Most of its just the labor intensive bs that you gotta do.

As for an 8.1 and mpg, you do realize that 10mpg is horrible even loaded? The reason the trucks mpg doesnt dip much is b/c it doesnt struggle to pull the load, neither will a diesel. Diesel if it got 20mpg unloaded, loaded like that it gets 15. Thats 5 more mpg than you will get even unloaded. It also has alot more power than your truck ever will. Not saying your wrong, but you really need to have alittle background in this other than friends w/diesels and your truck.

I have an old 94 F250, its a 5.8L gasser with 4 speed auto. It gets about 15mpg on the hwy and 12mpg loaded down and around town. It also is the super heavy duty model for the time and is basically an F350 with the heaviest rearend you can buy and 4.10 gears all the way around and every HD package imaginable lol. Fords old trucks never did get good mpg-but they had alot of power for the time for a gas truck. I woulda bought a diesel but a 1997 PSD F250/350 they want as much as a a 02 PSD F250/350 and it has more miles-in alot of cases-sometimes you find a deal.

But, heres the big deal about it all-loaded or unloaded you have power and get good mpg with a diesel, some gas trucks maybe but not really. Fords old 460 gets 12mpg, put a load in it and it gets 8-10mpg-why...b/c its not struggling as I said before and it cant really drop much more.

HOWEVER heres the kicker (and you can disagree with me here): I have personally worked on and driven every single truck make and model combo out there at one time or another. I used to work for a company that had a fleet of Ford, Chevy/GMC and Dodge fullsize work vans. Unloaded they got about 14-16mpg, put all the equipment inside that weighed about 2500lbs and that goes down to 10-12. Now, comparatively take the same exact setup and have a diesel in it you get 15mpg easy even loaded and you can tow another 5000lbs behind you with ease.

Bottom line: anyone can buy whatever they so wish, not my coin and not my vehicle if you buy it. But dont bash one or another if you dont own or or have worked/drove it extensively. If I buy another HD truck it will not be anything except a 99-03 F250/350 superduty 7.3L or an older 95-97 PSD. Just personal preference, but although I dont regularly need that much power-everytime I do need it and I dont have it-it sucks. There is only so much my F250 (which is currently inop) can do, and what it can do my 1 ton Toyota T100 can do less of (surprisingly not to brag-it towed 6000lbs with ease a few months ago).

You guys buy what ya want, I wont talk ya out of it.