No oil circulation = pump?

[Jim417mx]

Those of you that frequently visit this forum know I just got through over a month ordeal that turned out to by my fuel regulator.. which WASNT bad when I parked it at the end of last year.. so I finally get that fixed and go ride it to break in the new top end, come back to change the oil, and the oil tank had 100% brand new oil in it, the motor had dirty oil in it. Does this mean the oil pump is not pumping? Funny how things break on my quad when its just sitting there over winter... gettin sick of it :mad: How long does the oil pump take, just pull the side cover and remove whatevers neccesary?

[bigbad400]

dude. ok first of all the MOST common time for stuff to brake is when you fire it up after sitting.... key is DONT LET IT SIT:eek2:


i start my quad every week in the winter, just to let it run.. warm up, keep bearings lubed.... keep oil from setting up and even your water pump and stuff can stick up from sitting. gas that sits for a season can look like jello if not stabilized... not with stabil.. with seafoam. 2 oz per 5 gallons.

now to answer your other question yes most likely your oil pump is not working. most quads have a small screen in the inlet to the oil tank.... you could see if these got one and it could be plugged up. i have no idea i use synthetic oil and i change it so often it never gets dirty. im extremely picky.... but i rarely have problems with any of my machines. and i have 6 quads a snowmobile and i do the maintenance on all my friends machines and we very rarely have problems other than wheel bearings and stuff that should wear out....

i cant say enough dont let things sit. its very bad on bearings. i even go as far as to push my quad a foot or so everytime i go in the garage... i dont want my wheel bearings or brakes to set up on me. it gets pricy and i put 30hrs a week or better on my quad in the summer.... i change them enough.lol

the oil pump is real easy. if your not the mechanic thow look at your shop manual.. its easy but im sure a rookie could mess it up... not calling you a rookie, just saying, lol god luck. and even if you can only do it every two..3 weeks.... start your machine and move it around so nothing sets up and you will have alot less problems. :D

[Jim417mx]

Your probly starting to think I own a beat up old ltr but believe me this thing is run in A class locally and nationally every weekend in summer, it NEVER broke... NOTHING AT ALL until I finally snapped a stock piston ring at redbud at the end of last year. I've owned this quad since basically brand new, I always run synthetic amsoil, always good fuel, always keep up on maintence. I'm one of those people that cleans my powdercoated white frame with a tooth brush! :D

Now on the other hand, the only reason this quad sat so long was because of the broken piston ring at the end of the season, didnt have money for an ATP head and top end rebuild right away, so it sat, about month max...

I'm an automotive mechanic 60 hours a week, so the oil pump install will be easy, its just the fact that by the time I get home the last thing I wanna do is mechanic work, ... I just wanted to be 100% sure it is the oil pump before I waste my valuable time pulling the side cover off. I'm going to pull the oil tank and lines also, and see what I find... thanks again for helping me fix my quad that likes to break on its own

:mad: :mad:

[Limited Z_400]

Remove the oil filter cover-is there oil?
Remove the allen head screw on your cyl. head in front of the thermostat housing-turn over engine be quick to turn off if it starts-is there oil?

[Jim417mx]

http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/188656_1709938022429_1057454925_31825397_622392_n. jpg

:eek2:

[blholtz]

Hate to say this but if that with that gear looking like that your motor is probably shot all the way around. you had no oil moving around in it at all. engine or trans.

[Limited Z_400]

Not good-I always replace the circlips with a new one, sharp edge
towards you(not to the gear).I would inspect all three pumps.

[nkillian9]

did something get stuck in ur oil pump to cause that just wondering i just finished putting my motor back together tonight from third gear going out and the same oil pump that gear drives had a knick in the outer rotor im guessing from a peice of third gear trying to go thru

[Jim417mx]

The oil pump that this gear goes to siezed up, the the lobes are worn down and metal shaving everywhere. Hopefully a new pump, gear, and engine flush will fix this thing

[nkillian9]

good luck

[bigbad400]

lol i was kinda getting that impression. :D

[Jim417mx]

I really appreciate the help once again, its guys like you that make forums like this work from day to day!

I found a piece of small metal about 1/4" x 2mm , looks like a piece of a ring of some sort, lodged in the oil valley that goes to the pump, it was lodged right where it meets the pump, causing it to lock-up. I'm GUESSING its a part of my piston ring that broke at the end of summer last year, even though I swore I pulled out the broken part of the ring, it was sitting on top of the piston when I pulled my head off late last year. I matched it up to the rest of the ring to make sure it made a complete ring and to assure myself that no other ring parts were inside the motor,... which leaves me feeling kinda sketchy about just throwing a new pump on this thing. If its not the piston ring I wonder what it could be, it had to have come from inside the cases, but I have no other running/driveability issues or bad noises.

My only question that will make me feel more confident about it being the ring, would be this.. could the ring work its way from falling down by the crank, then get pushed through that tiny hole that leads the oil pump? .. Hopefully nobody anwsers "anythings possibly on your bike" lol

Parts are in the parts washer, oil tank is off getting cleaned, lines, etc.. thanks again, I will update in a week or so when I get my new pump.

[nkillian9]

maybe u lucked out and the pump and gear is all that it got only othere things i can think of resembling a peice of a ring would be circlips and the camshaft retainers that go between the cam bearing and the sprockets

[Jim417mx]

Just talked to mike at ATP, he said hes seen this before and he described exactly what i found. According to him my 3rd gear clips are breaking and my trans is gonna go soon... sooo I think I'm gonna pull the motor and send it out:ermm:

[nkillian9]

man none of my clips were broke when i lost 3rd everything was there but a chuckied up drive gearand dude if u have any mechanical knowledge at all u can do it yourself if u know someone with a cs splitter u can borrow. i know cause my engine is still on the table imma put it in the fame in when iget off the computer lol

[Jim417mx]

yea its a long story, we lost our house due to the economy, so I bought a moto-van to haul my quad and tools, it sucks doing big jobs in there, nowhere to keep things organzied and clean, and i work 10 hours 6 days a week on cars all day, the last thing i wanna do when I get home is start a really long motor build when I deal with pain in the *** cars all day :rolleyes: I'll let ATP build it so at least I know it'll run when it gets put back together!

[nkillian9]

yeah man economy is bad and gas is going back up to record levels again i have a dirt floor in my shop so i brought mine into spare bedroom had to put up with ole lady nagging on that one lol

[nkillian9]

maybe one of u guys can help me i just finished mine up let it run and checked the oil barely touched the dipstick im talking just a drop on the end and i put more than plenty in it i added a lil extra cause of the whole tear down should i just add more and see wut happens i let it run for a while even took it down the road to make sure it was gonna cycle thru all the gears fan never came on or nothing so it wasnt getting hot

[blholtz]

Was the oil level low immediately after the ride? If so top it off and you should be good.

Was it low after it set with out running for a day or two? If so, start the quad and let it run for a few minutes then check the oil level. If the oil level is fine after it has run for a few minutes a check valve for the oil tank is letting the oil pool in the cases.

It won't hurt anything, but remember to check the oil after you have run the motor a few minutes and then allowed a few minutes for the oil level to stabilize.

[nkillian9]

i let it warm up and idle for awhile and slightly gave it gas for a couple minutes then i rode it about a quarter mile just going thru the gears, not on the gas much just enuff to put a lil load on the motor. Then came back and checked the oil one lil eyedrop amount on stick so i let it cool off for about two minutes and checked again same lil drop on stick. like i said i just replaced third gear and this is the first 4 stroke ive messed with it was all to easy in my opinion, But then again i aint ever messed with anything with oil pumps. Just kinda worried i will get some more oil and top it off see wut happens.

[blholtz]

If its not leaking top it off and your good, sound like the amount of oil you put in the motor might have been low to begin with. The oil level in the motor will steal oil off the tank and then then the tank will be low.

And if the level is hitting the very bottom of the dipstick you are only about 200ml's low. You could ride right now and be good to go.

[nkillian9]

yes thanks i added 150ml and it was just right sorry just a lil paranoid first break down of a ltr motor and its my 2nd child if u know wut i mean. I think she gonna be alright opend it up a few times today headed to local track in the morning, thanks bholtz u always seem like u know ur stuff on here and always poilite

[blholtz]

You are welcome.

I had one of the first Ltr's in MI in 06, so I got the pleasure of spending a lot of time trying to figure out the quirks of this machine.

When I pop on here andpost a reply it is because I have been there with LTR's and know from experience. Have a blast, wish I could be out riding, but another 3-4 inches of snow, means more time waiting.

[nkillian9]

ouch we done with the snow here i believe, we got snow a few times aroound the 4 to 5 inch marks and that is real rare in arkansas, as far as the quad i rode the crap out of it today near the end, thinks its gonna be alright, had to make sure gonna hold up imma hit a tqra race in oklahoma next weekend, i suck but love the crap out of it, its called heart lol

[blholtz]

As long as your having fun who cares if you suck. You gotta ride to get better.

[Jim417mx]

Well after having the flywheel pop halfway across the shop, and ruining the threads on the crank, I have a new crank on the way since mine was still stock with 3 years on it, i figured I'd put a new crank to match my high compression piston so I dont have to worry about having future problems....

After inspection, I see ZERO damage, I think what happened is a peice of metal got past the oil screen and into the pump... how? I dont know, there are a few other peices of metal shavings/chipped off peices of metal stuck in the screen, but no visible damage of internal parts, including my trans (yes i have a STOCK trans still, 2007, with 3 years A class racing and 4 nationals on it, NO missing teeth on my 3rd gear ) :D

Couple questions before I throw this thing back together...

Case sealer, what to use as a gasket/sealer.?
How do these pics look?

[Jim417mx]

PICS ARE FROM MY GO PRO HELMET CAM, thats the reason why they SUCK! :)

Springs/knob looking things, they were just loose in the case where the end of the trans shaft goes, theres 7 gold colored circles in the hole in the side of the case that they were sitting in, how do they go?
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c391/Jim417mx/PICT0004.jpg
Clutch basket, I know every LTR does this, I'm guessing these is where 99% of my metal shavings are from.... How are those hinson steel baskets, can I use just the basket with other stock componenets?http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c391/Jim417mx/PICT0011.jpg

Metal chips
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c391/Jim417mx/PICT0002.jpg
Fresh ATP head :D (nothing wrong with it, just took a pic) :cool:

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c391/Jim417mx/PICT0009.jpg

Thanks in advance for any help, this has been a long process, as you can tell its march, and i just split my cases....:)

[nkillian9]

them springs and pins goes in that order springs then pins for the neutral indicator

[Limited Z_400]

They go in the shift drum for the gear position sensor.After you reassemble the eng/trans remove the 2 allen screws that hold the sensor you will see the 2 holes in the shift drum. I use Three Bond liquid gasket(grey) RTV silicone 1216 for the crankcase halves.Good Luck.