Shweez's First Rebuild

[sheweezy]

So since I am both a nube to this site and to doing a total rebuild, I figured I might also start a rebuild thread to let you guys throw your opinions in on other upgrades that might make rebuild end with a better result or maybe you guys could use a few things I have done or will be doing that I would have never thought was anything inordinate. My current major mods are... Douglas Red Front Wheels, Tom Miller Motorsport +2 A-arms, 450r F/R Shocks, 450r Swingarm, +4 Rear axle, Stage 2 Hotcam, and full HMF exhaust. The mods on deck are..05 450r Carb with Uni Foam filter w/o lid, 86mm Wiseco Piston with Cometic Gaskets, Upgraded timing key but have not decided timing yet, Ported and Polished Heads, Billet Kill Switch and Light Switch Relocation, Tusk Nerfs and Front Bumper, N-Style Graphics, and my shocks revalved and resprung but have not decided with who yet... Any recommendations on Shock Upgrades, Jetting for 450r Carb or Timing Key upgrade or just any other mods you feel I may want or need are highly appreciated. I will begin posting photos and comments this weekend when the true tear down begins.

[honda400ex2003]

that thing looks pretty nice already!

i would say that gt thunder or c&d racing would be your best bet for shock setups.

jetting will probably be close to a 165 or 168 depending on temps and elevation (a 165 for around 1500-2500 ft, 168 lower than 1500) with a 50 or 52 pilot jet at around 2.5-3 turns out on the f/a screw.

3 degree key will be a nice addition as discussed in your other thread.

check all of the bearings in it also while you are doing some stuff to it. never hurts to do the rear carrier ones and check the rest if they have a bit of movement.

check out the chain and sprockets too, if they look worn get them replaced to start fresh. DID x ring 94 link is my chain of choice along with many others. I prefer 15/38 gearing but that is entirely up to you and how you ride. i feel that 15/38 is the best all around gearing.

i think thats all that i have for you haha.

steve

[sheweezy]

Ha I appreciate the comments! Yeah i just purchased both a 14 and 15 t sprocket just depending on which type riding I would be doing at the time..Was plannin on starting at a 170 and 48 with my jets so I think we are both pretty close in mind with the jetting. Yeah I have contacted both about rebuilding my shocks to it will probably be an impulse thing once I get them off. And yeah I know I have a bearing or two that needs replacing now anyway so it'll be a good time to check most of the rest by inspection anyway. I appreciate it man, I just acquired this quad at the beginning of the month and kinda got it how I wanted before I did my major overhaul. I forgot to mention I will be PC the frame honda red and all my other hardparts such as a-arms nerfs handle bars etc in black, will be using auto paint for some small things such as covers etc. Maybe it'll turn out well

[honda400ex2003]

sounds like a fun build :D

steve

[sheweezy]

I hope so, should be being my first(im sure ill have no problems in the process!haha) and gunna play with a lot of set ups to see what I like most. Will see how it goes

[honda400ex2003]

oh youll have problems... thats half the fun. haha the magnitude of the problems determines if it is good or not. haha

something will have you bleeding or throwing tools across the shop. just the nature of the beast and why we do it.


steve

[sheweezy]

haha looking at some things on it already have me bleeding and throwing things now so thats a sure thing haha

[honda400ex2003]

then you will have a ball doing it. haha get a big hammer, thats first on the list.

steve

[Chukkinsod]

If you are going to get into the top end, i would recommend upgrading the timing chain as well as replacing the tensioner. That has caused many people including myself heartache over a inexpensive part. I sent mine to the moon when my tensioner did not close causing my timing chain to slip and open the intake valves on the stroke bending my valves as well as gouging the chit out of my custom cut piston. Cost way more to fix than just to replace. Many run a CRF timing chain...way cheaper than aftermarket and more durable than the stock ex timing chain. Theres a few threads on this upgrade on this site. Good lookin build and keep up the good work!

[sheweezy]

you are referring to the cam tensioner correct? just make sure we are talkin about the same part...yeah I am actually in the market for the CRF chain right now just forgot to list it...Preciate the comments man! ready to get started!

[sheweezy]

Cam Chain Tensioner** i meant to say!

[sheweezy]

like the first or second one of these hyperlinks???

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/NEW-CRU-Manual-Cam-Chain-Tensioner-Honda-TRX-400-400EX-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem3a5ce49a97QQitemZ25066 6588823QQptZMotorcyclesQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories

http://compare.ebay.com/like/300337926261?ltyp=AllFixedPriceItemTypes&var=sbar&rvr_id=213034631197&crlp=1_263602_304662&UA=%3F*F%3F&GUID=5540854312b0a02652c6e516ff6b0ec2&itemid=300337926261&ff4=263602_304662

[honda400ex2003]

i wouldnt get a manual one. just get an oem replacement one. 90% of the time they are fine. its the tool that is nice to have to test it and lock it for reinstall.

mainly the guides are the important thing to do, esp if you want to do a crf chain. it will be better for the chain to run in new grooves instead of old ones.

the 02 chain will work just fine also and is the recommended one to use.

back to the tool for the tensioner, a small screwdriver can be used to test the stock one for full travel and binding. if it is binding or it can go back in without using the screwdriver it is shot and should be replaced.

when reinstalling make sure you use the screwdriver to back it all the way out, bolt it down, then release it after it is torqued correctly or tightened to your liking. this will ensure that it puts the proper tension on the chain.

steve

[sheweezy]

Okay, ha just making sure I was understanding correctly which part he was talking about replacing...Thanks for the tips!

[honda400ex2003]

he was talking about both the tensioner and the chain.

i was talking about all 3 sets of items being replaced

there are 2 guides, the tensioner, and the chain that can all be purchased from service honda, bike bandit, possibly rocky mountain atv, and a couple of other places.

steve

[sheweezy]

how crucial do you believe upgrading the change is initially? My main objective is to get a quality bike together, that will be able to decently run a track so that i can for the most part get used to riding mx tracks as i am more accustomed to trails. If you guys believe it is a much needed mod i well probably go ahead and go through with buying, but if it is something i could hold off with until making large mods such as added compression and bore size, upgraded valves, upgraded clutch etc then i might just wait and do that...which will probably just be next winter haha..Also i am 22 and i front all my bills so if i can get by with holdin off on a few things such as this i haven't mentioned i would like to do so. With that said i still am very curious and have been thinkin about the chain very seriously and just wanna get some other opinions wether it will be a necessity for now or later??

[CJM]

Its well worth it as its a much stronger chain than the stock one. Total cost for a new tensioner, guides and chain is about 150 bucks. But remember these are all wear parts that with the more you ride the more they all wear.

[honda400ex2003]

agree with marc but i wouldnt tear it down 2x to put the chain in once then tear it down again to do the rebuild. i would do it all at the same time sooner rather than later. if it is only going to be a couple of months, it would be worth it to take the side cover off and inspect it all and make sure it is in spec and that would be as far as i would take it until i was ready to tear it down for a rebuild.

just my thoughts but it can be hard on a limited budget.

steve

[sheweezy]

yeah, but im not 150 bucks limited..haha you tell me I MUST HAVE 426 Curtis Sparks Bore Kit, Houser +3 Pro Series Long Travel A-arm, Fox Float Evol-X DSC Generation 2 front shocks to even consider ridin a 400 it might be a little different story...haha its more i think im just feelin lazy tonight, just made the purchases on ebay! haha

[honda400ex2003]

must be nice! get what you need to do it right all at one time. it is more fun to do it in sections to see the progress but much easier to do it right once.

steve

[sheweezy]

yeah for sure...I would like to do some different set ups down the road with different settings or parts, part by part, to see what kind of gains or increases i received from each mod

[sheweezy]

with the crf timing chain guides work in the 400ex or do they need to be 400ex specific

[CJM]

Not sure about the crf guides, I bought the 400ex ones.

[honda400ex2003]

id get the 400 ones also, i dont think the crf ones will work.

steve

[sheweezy]

alright just checkin, CRFs were a lot cheaper haha

[dariusld]

These guys are all giving good advice. But when I rebuilt my 400, I didn't change the chain, tensioner or guides. I have a stage II cam and ride my quad hard. Since the rebuild, more than 7 years, I haven't touched the engine. The CRF chain is overkill IMO and its heavy.

[sheweezy]

Yeah man, it is somewhat of a difficult decision to make whether it is completely crucial or not, I believe the chain is stronger but how crucial the change for a wear down part is a different decision, but like it was said earlier in the thread if I can go ahead and spend just a little more money to extend the life of my top end might as well go ahead and do it..just a little insurance plan i guess you could say

[sheweezy]

if any of you are familiar with cams, mine says Hot Cams HCDG No. 08....do you guys have any idea what stage this is...I was told it was a stage 2 but just want to verify

[426kidz]

cal hot cam... and I have a built 426 and I decided to skip out on the timing chain...no problems yet and i ride her hard also!:cool:

[sheweezy]

Ha, kinda wish ya'll hadn't told me that, now I am having second thoughts!! But will see, my mind works weird, I often do things on impulse, so will so what kind of mood im in when I get ready to rebuild the motor

[sheweezy]

started my tear down this evening, was able to get about 3 and a half hours of work in and decided to throw a few photos up...Thanks to my buddy Motochamp250, we were able to start in the back and both tackle a part and work our way up and got a good start for tomorrow...sorry if the quality of the images are not very good..forgot to bring the digital camera....please continue to post any comments or suggestions if you have any, very helpful for me!

[sheweezy]

Plastic Removed, beginning to tear down

[sheweezy]

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[sheweezy]

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[sheweezy]

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[sheweezy]

In the morning will finish pulling the motor, remove steering stem, front suspension and brakes, start pulling clips and label/bagging bolts and clips, and then will move on to the swing arm bearing....will have more updates tomorrow!

[426kidz]

what exactly do you plan on doin with the bike...mx, xc or what? i may have some ideas if you can narrow that down.;)

[sheweezy]

well this is my second 400, third racing style quad..had a 250x, but i've rode a few hare scramble courses, and messed around on a few parts of an mx track, but mostly just rode natural terrain for jumps and what not too give you an idea about where my skill level could be....but my main objective is mx, hopin to start ridin with my buddy and a few others..may get on some natural terrain but it wouldn't be racing, just kinda puttin around....i have my current parts lists of major stuff earlier in this thread

[hocman123]

Originally posted by sheweezy
if any of you are familiar with cams, mine says Hot Cams HCDG No. 08....do you guys have any idea what stage this is...I was told it was a stage 2 but just want to verify

yep that is a stage 2 cam for sure

[sheweezy]

So with today got about another 6 hours put in to the tear down of my 400, and again with help for Motochamp250, we were able to get the bike torn down completely, cylinder dropped off for boring, and ready to send off for paint...

[sheweezy]

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[sheweezy]

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[sheweezy]

I will make sure to have a digital camera for better quality pictures on my rebuild...just eagerly waitin for parts to come in!

[sheweezy]

Got most of my parts in and frame PC'd, waiting for shocks to return from Hygear... Rebuild to begin this weekend...

[sheweezy]

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[sheweezy]

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[PaRedneckRiders]

Looks good man, Cant wait to see some more pics of it. Should look nice

[sheweezy]

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[sheweezy]

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[sheweezy]

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[sheweezy]

Still waiting on my shocks, and custom rear link from Hygear... been slowly piddlin with the bike gettin it back together..took a couple shots with my phone when i sat the plastic on it before i put it in the shed tonight......

[sheweezy]

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[sheweezy]

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[jake"08"400]

Sorry to but in sheweezy but how much did it cost to get your frame pc white been thinking on doing this for a while and I'm trying to get some ideas.

[sheweezy]

no problem, but i paid 375 for frame, bars, and bottom a-arms in white, swingarm and upper a-arms red, swingarm and tie rods black....this was a local guy in Jackson, TN

[sheweezy]

So I have been sitting on my hands looking at my quad not being able to make much progress waiting on my shocks...Picked up some used pogo sticks and rear shock and proceeded with my break in...Have learned a whole lot during this rebuild and really didn't have any problems at all...Thanks a lot to some of the vets from this forum for their expertise and insight...Here is a picture where I am at now...Will have a a full photo shoot once my shocks have arrived and all the kinks are worked out...

[honda400ex2003]

looks great! glad it came out nicely for you!

steve

[dariusld]

Maybe while your waiting on the shocks, you could polish your front rims?

[sheweezy]

Yeah, the appearance of the wheels have been eating at me...I am stuck between going ahead and getting new wheels, or doing something like PC'ing them black til next year...A simple polish probably wouldnt hurt anything haha

[sheweezy]

I know this picture isn't real clear, but if you guys see anything else you think I could do to kind of complete my bike or make it look a little better I would greatly appreciate it...I still have the 450r carb to put on and jet, it is an 86mm 10:1 with Stage 2 HC, hardened-faced rockers, Hinson Clutch, +6 Sparks Key, cfr cam chain...It is running really well...just need to kinda polish everything up cosmetically...just throw some ideas out there

Thanks!

[dariusld]

Originally posted by sheweezy
it is an 86mm 10:1 hardened-faced rockers,

These two I don't understand. What is stock compression ratio? I don't think you are supposed to use these rockers, with that cam.

[motochamp250]

i think stock is like 9.1:1 IIRC

[sheweezy]

yeah stock is 9.1:1...Hotcams are not hard faced cams. They are made for use with stock rockers. However, they recommend hardened faced rockers with stage 2 or 3 cams, stage 1 would not be adviced. I didn't put the rockers in there they were just already installed when I got the bike....

[sheweezy]

You scared me a little bit there darius haha...The guy just told me the other day when talking to him that he had those rockers in there...and when you said that I about freaked....had to see where a bunch of techs recommended those rockers before I was comforted again haha

[IMSROLL450R]

Never heard that about the rockers. Im almost positive a hardened rocker is gonna wear the hell out of a normal cam. Maybe not. Shall see i guess!!!

Looks good man. I vote pcing the wheels. Thats what i always do to make them new. Polishing sucks.

[sheweezy]

So have you not heard that either? I personally had not, and was not aware they were in there, until the guy told me they were and I actually kind of inspected em...Did not it could be an issue until darius mentioned something...I did some research and found a few people who said they actually recommended it...It makes since that it would not be good for the cam, but seeing that the stage two is made for more low end, it might need something with a little less give persay?? please advice if you think this will be a real issue because I might be having to look into either a new cam or rockers....seems to run just like I wanted it to, really wouldn't want to change up much about it

[sheweezy]

Got my front shocks in and put on...still have some more tweeking to do(450r carb, caster/camber/toe, decals and number plates, relocating switches, etc.) Got another pic to show my little bit of progress after finishing my break in

[dariusld]

Hotcams says to use the stock rockers. Whole bunch of threads on the subject. I have a stage two with stock rockers.

Many others (http://www.exriders.com/vbb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=314096)

[sheweezy]

Yeah, talked to the guy again and now he said he isn't completely positive if they are stock or hard face...more than likely stock..think he was just saying something to sound like he had more money in the bike then he actually did....he got two bikes from me that weren't runnin for his that was runnin and had a few extras....

but preciate the information man! yeah I had read a whole lot, some said to use stock some hard face some said it wouldnt matter...called hotcams and they said stock, but the guy said hard face wouldn't be completely rough with my setup but stock would be better...need to see what I have, hope the guy was just blowin smoke with his motor description(he has been iffy)

[dariusld]

".think he was just saying something to sound like he had more money in the bike then he actually did"

This I could believe.

Really nice thread. Thanks for sharing all the pictures.