Sparks Timing Key with Bigger Bore and Higher Compression

[sheweezy]

I am interested in the Sparking +6 Timing Key to maybe up my compression a tad bit more. I am running .040 over bore 86mm or 406 with 10:1 compression. I also have a stage 2 cam. I know they do not advise to use with higher compression or bigger bore. Just trying to see if anyone has tried the key with a small upgrade on bore size and compression and if it was at all beneficial or if it hurt the motor.

[sneaky11]

that would be excellent for your setup!! under 11:1 there is nothing bad with the key... just goods!!

[trailrider894]

Originally posted by sheweezy
I am interested in the Sparking +6 Timing Key to maybe up my compression a tad bit more. I am running .040 over bore 86mm or 406 with 10:1 compression. I also have a stage 2 cam. I know they do not advise to use with higher compression or bigger bore. Just trying to see if anyone has tried the key with a small upgrade on bore size and compression and if it was at all beneficial or if it hurt the motor.

They advise you not change compression and bore, because the key advances the timing which generates more heat. When you add compression and bore size, it generates more heat. You can run 11:1 with a Sparks Key, but you will need to use race fuel, A.K.A high octane... 100+.

[bkelley]

Wheelie (a member here) makes +3 keys which are more high comp friendly than the +6.

[CJM]

Originally posted by bkelley
Wheelie (a member here) makes +3 keys which are more high comp friendly than the +6.

Still need to use 100 or a mix according to wheelie last time I asked.

[bkelley]

Originally posted by CJM
Still need to use 100 or a mix according to wheelie last time I asked. Depends on the compression, I think. I thought he said 11:1 with a +3 key is premium pump safe. I could be wrong, though.

[CJM]

Originally posted by bkelley
Depends on the compression, I think. I thought he said 11:1 with a +3 key is premium pump safe. I could be wrong, though.

I was going to do the +3 key, he told me 11:1 needs 100 octane still.

[bkelley]

Then it was 10:1 and the +3 key for pump premium. Eventually I'm going to go with a 11:1 and the +3 and run E85.

[tri5ron]

Originally posted by sneaky11
that would be excellent for your setup!! under 11:1 there is nothing bad with the key... just goods!! X2

[sheweezy]

okay! thanks for the info.. i am about to start my rebuild this weekend and was gunna run the 04-05 450r carb.. how bad is the heating issue if i went with the +6 key? something in the need of upgraded oil coolers and reservoir or just in need of a better octane fuel? wanted to keep the lower compression to keep from having to upgraded studs and cooling... and about the +3 key does anyone know the thread i could find about wheelie's key or get in touch with him?

[honda400ex2003]

ive ran both the 3 and 6 in my 10:1 416 on 91 or 93 octane that is non eth stuff. depending on the power placement you can run either to get the desired effect.


i dont think that 91 would work the 11:1 and a 6 though. if you could get good 93 maybe but that might still be pushing it. plus it will create about 15 degrees more heat vs. a stock timed machine during the same conditions with a 10:1 416 with the 6 degree. I have not actually checked the 3 vs stock since i went from the 6 to the 3 when i went to the 450r carb. it really depends on how you want it to run and what you want to do with it.

my 416, 6 degree, 450r carb revs and sounds like a 450r with a ton of top end.

my 416 with the 3 degree, 450 carb runs super hard mid range with exceptional top end and a good low end hit.

my 416 with the stock key and 450r carb has alot more low end compared to the others but less mid and top end.


all of these tests were with the stage 2. results would be quite a bit different with the stage 1 i have in there.

i could run a stage 1 and 6 degree and probably get something close to the second description with good low mid and top, repeat for the rest of them.

pick your poison and die with whichever sword end you wish. oh the choices there are.

steve

[sheweezy]

haha yeah what i am figuring... mid-range is what i am desiring, so your test data is definitely beneficial! I am also running a stage 2 but will be only running a 406 bore... have you noticed much excessive heat with either of the two keys? or do you have any kind of upgrade cooling components?

[honda400ex2003]

i dont ride in anything too extreme but have ridden in 90s or so with no real issues. i have an oil temp gauge so i keep a very close eye on how high my temps get. I have never seen anything over 250. usually i am right around 210-220 which is plenty fine for me. i would like to be around 200 but ill take what i can get. lol

sounds like you would benefit most from the 3 degree wheelie has. I love my setup right now, super quick yet still trail luggable when riding with ma and dad. lol im talking 15-20 mph for miles on end. just ride a gear or 2 high and you are all set lol.


steve

[sheweezy]

haha i totally understand, you don't know what the thread is called or where i could find out how to get a hold of one of wheelie's keys do you?

[honda400ex2003]

http://www.exriders.com/vbb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=414990&highlight=keys

there you go :D

steve

[sheweezy]

yeah i just found him, i appreciate it man!