Smoke/spark plug

[Goob]

Ok guys my 400 has been running great but yesterday noticed some white looking smoke from the exhaust not a whole lot just like a puff here and there haven't done anything else to it and the jetting is right so I thought I would just check the plug and it was hard to get out when I finally got it out it looked good but one of the threads was messed up so got new plug to put in and when it gets to a certain spot it gets harder to tighten but it fires up and runs idk if that has anythin to do with it or not but it is backfiring some now too

[tri5ron]

We need alot more info and details pertaining to the mechanical condition, hours of use, and maintaince schedule of your machine, before we can attempt to accurately diagnose your issues .

BUT, your spark plug, and a single dinged thread, should not have anything to do with your Quad puffing white smoke.
White or Bue/Grey smoke, is an indication of burning oil.

you need to do a proper compression check, and determine if you possibly have a wore out cylinder, rings, valve seals, etc.,
also, backfiring can be caused by MANY different issues. Ignition timing, air/fuel mixture, valve timing, etc.

You need to start diagnosing, and isolating each of the symptoms, and addressing them individually.

get a factory maintaince manual, either in book form or online, and start troubleshooting.

no,... changing to a new sparkplug ,
did not cause, ...nor will it fix,
the issues you are having.

[Goob]

Bought my quad brand new in 09 it has a kandn filter full hmf exhaust sparks timing key I change the oil like I'm suppose to and use Honda brand That's all the maintenance that I have done don't know the exact hours but I ride everyday if I can and I take care of it so I'll have to look into the compression and other tests but it done this last year but only for like a day and hasn't since then and it's not a lot but it started the other day I have a 158k main in it and 42 pilot and decided to take the Airbox lid off and after a while I noticed the puffin smoke and thought maybe it was too lean so went to a 160 still didn't help and when I put the lid back on it was still the same I don't really notice it on startup just after I'm riding for a while and it also backfires some but I just don't understand why it would start smoking If it's been running great but thanks for your time man I really appreciate it

[DragonGunner]

White smoke can be a indication that moisture is in your exhaust system. Its just burning off....you see it on cars depending on the dewpoint an moisture in the air.

[Goob]

Do y'all think my plug will be ok the thread or something is messed up cause the new plug is hard to put in and take out but still fires up and runs good just smoke

[Goob]

any suggestions

[honda400ex2003]

do a compression test and a leak down test. that will tell you if your rings are shot or you valve seals are worn out. report back your findings with them.

on the plug, i would say that it is fine still as long as it got snug without really cranking it down. i have some plugs that are harder to get in than others also.

steve

[Goob]

K im gonna have to read a little more on it I'm not familiar with the compression and leaksown test but the plug when I take it out only has one thread messed up and when I put it in it gets hard but it's snug and still fires right up I was just worried because I can still turn it more it's just hard and I didnt know if I needed to tighten it as much as I could or not

[honda400ex2003]

compression will show if the rings are toast. leak down is tougher do the comp test first. if that fails then you will need rings anyway.

if the comp test checks good the leak down will show if your valve seats are bad along with a bad seal on your valves themselves.

good psi for a comp test is anything over 120 psi imo. get the manual, it will show you how to do the test with the proper equipment.

steve

[Goob]

K do you know where I can get a tester at and also I just went out to the garage and pulled the plug and put it back in then repeated and now it goes in smoothly I'm thinking maybe a piece of dried mud or something got in it or something I just don know

[honda400ex2003]

very possible, it could have had the washer turned sideways also, it can put extra pressure on it when turning it on.

you can get a tester at any autoparts store or you may be able to rent one from ace or something like that.

steve

[jake"08"400]

Man sorry to hear bout your 400. You think maybe when you was running that 152 in there with your full hmf and k&n might burned up some seals? And usually you can get a compression tester at your local auto parts store.

[honda400ex2003]

i would probably attribute both bad rings and bad seals to that. more so with rings especially.

just my thoughts though,

steve

[Goob]

Actually I kept the 158 in it and since I been noticing the smoke it backfires now also

[jake"08"400]

I meant before you put the bigger jet in it wasn't you running a 152 at one point I thought I read that you was at one time.

[Goob]

That's what hmf guy told me he recommended that or a 155 I been runnin a 158 though about a year

[jake"08"400]

O ok well I don't know why he would recomend that. I got a 155 in mine with just a slip on and k&n with a couple holes in my airbox. But do a compression test and let us know what ya find out man maybe its nothing to seruois.

[Goob]

K I just went to try to find one at Wal mart but no luck all the parts stores are closed now I'll have to go in the morning

[honda400ex2003]

wally world didnt have one... bummer. lol steve

[jake"08"400]

Alright man be sure to post back and let us know what goin on with it. Also be sure to turn your gas off and open the throttle wide open when you do your compression test.

[Goob]

K and I didn't have my hopes up on Wally world lol

[Goob]

Before I go get the tester I'm gonna get some oil and filter what oil do y'all run

[jake"08"400]

Honda full synthetic no molly. Can't think of what its called.........hp4s maybe its in a red jug.

[honda400ex2003]

i just run castrol or valvoline 10w40 for the warmer months.

steve

[Goob]

Do I need to warm it up before I test

[jake"08"400]

Don't think it matters but be sure to turn the gas off and open it up while your turning the engine over.

[CJM]

Right from the manual:


Warm up the engine to normal operating temperature.
Stop the engine, disconnect the spark plug cap and
remove the spark plug.
Install the compression gauge with the gauge attachment
into the spark plug hole.
TOOL
Compression gauge attachment 07908 - KK60000 or
equivalent commercially
available
in USA.
Shift the transmission in neutral and open the choke
lever (OFF).
Open the throttle all the way and crank the engine
with the starter motor until the gauge reading stops
rising. The maximum reading is usually reached
within 4 -7 seconds.
COMPRESSION PRESSURE
686 - 883 kPa (7.0 - 9.0 kgf/cm*, 100 - 128 psi)
NOTE:
Check that there is no leakage at the gauge connection,
Low compression can be caused by:
-blown cylinder head gasket
- improper valve adjustment
-valve leakage
- worn piston ring or cylinder
High compression can be caused by:
- carbon deposits in combustion

[jake"08"400]

Never fails I learn something new everyday lol. Thanks flipper...........so how did your test go goob?

[Goob]

I rented one but the adapter was too big

[CJM]

If you have a harbor freight (or you can order it) you can buy the entire kit. Its the one I have and use, think it ran me 25 bucks.

[Goob]

K I don't have one around here that I know of

[CJM]

Thats to bad.

Heres what I have: http://www.harborfreight.com/quick-connect-compression-tester-95187.html

Works great.

[Goob]

If it's rings or valves what would cause them to go so quick

[Goob]

how do i put a vid on here i tried to earlier but it wont load it

[CJM]

Originally posted by Goob
If it's rings or valves what would cause them to go so quick
Improper jetting, mostly to lean. If its the rings it will smoke alot, if its the valve seals you will only get smoke on startup.


Originally posted by Goob
how do i put a vid on here i tried to earlier but it wont load it

Upload to youtube or photobucket or imageshack and link here?

[Goob]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQ6NSM_p6fk

[CJM]

Was that during warm up? Mine does exactly the same thing when its warming up-Im running rich and some of the gas isnt being burnt.

[Goob]

I had been Ridin for a little while it was warm that's usually when I notice it more

[crownandmonster]

If it does it worse the warmer it gets its probably the rings starting to go. Thats a pretty new bike to need rings, but I guessing you're pretty hard on it by watching the vid with you revving the balls off it. lol

[Goob]

I'm not that rough on it just revving it to show the smoke but I do ride as much as I can

[crownandmonster]

Originally posted by Goob
I'm not that rough on it just revving it to show the smoke but I do ride as much as I can


I understand why you were revving it. Most people don't realize that revving a motor ( no matter if its a car, motorcycle, ATV, tractor, ect.) with no load on it is one of the worst things you can do.

[honda400ex2003]

alright...

lets recap this again and start over. Im not gonna sift through 6 pages again to find stuff out.

jetting currently? 158 42 what else for needle and f/a

warmed during vid?


looks white to me... condensation or lean condition.

Im betting that it is less than 40 degrees or very close to it with low humidity when you took that vid?

im betting with a 160 it would probably go away.


steve

[jake"08"400]

@steve


I don't know if you rember but me and you and goob had a thread on his jetting. And he said that he was running a 152 in that bike with that full exhaust and k@n. (To lean I think considering I'm running a 155 with a slip on) Do you think that mite could have hurt him cause going by what he said he put a 160 and it didn't stop. And I'm guessing that video was taken today if so he lives in the state over and it was 65 degrees here today.


Also did you ever get a end that would screw into your spark plug hole and check your compression?

[honda400ex2003]

i thought we had worked on it before. it just looks white still in the vid. if it was black i would suspect seals or richness but he could be a bit lean right now with the 160 in it.

im waiting on a comp test also.

steve

[Goob]

Naw never found one that would fit for the test but I never ran the 152 except last year and only for a test run then went to a 155 then 158 just to b safe and had that ever since and put 160 this winter and it never smoked til the other day and it looks white to me also and haven't noticed any loss of power

[honda400ex2003]

does it sit outside?

it sure looks like moisture and if it hasnt smoked before then i would venture to guess that.

i thought you were still running the 158 in there which would be too lean for the winter.

a comp test would tell you alot. lol

steve

[Goob]

It sits outside but under a top most of the time sometimes not it's been 60 to 70 degrees and w a 160 still smokes

[honda400ex2003]

put the 158 back in then it could be a bit rich even though it is white. maybe it isnt getting everything burned out and leaving condensation in it.

hard to say, easy to test though. get er done quick and let me know.

steve

[Goob]

Lol I may run some seafoam through it and see bout that it jut bothers me haha but I changed the oil and road bout an hour and didn't use a drop but idk if that's enough time to burn some I that's what it is

[jake"08"400]

Idk man maybe it isn't nothing to bad let's us know when you find out what it is.

[jake"08"400]

You figure it out yet?

[Goob]

Didn't get to mess with it today started back to work but will tomorrow but something else I forgot to mention I said earlier my plug was hard to unscrew and screw in then later did like normal well I pulled it again last night and it was the same thing of I use spark plug tool I get to where I can't turn it by hang and have to use a screw driver to turn it the. It eases up again it's not that bard to turn just takes forever I wonder what would cause that

[Goob]

Pulled my plug today and it was a solid black so something isn't right any ideas

[honda400ex2003]

it is either running rich or it is burning alot of oil.

its probably time to switch it back to your summer jetting specs.

steve

[Goob]

It got 155 in it now haven't rode a lot with it but I'll ride a little today and see if it's using oil or not and after I took it out plug went back it easy Idk what the deal with that is

[Goob]

Been Ridin the past two days bent used a drop o oil

[honda400ex2003]

lol no ring or seal problems then so you can probably change the jetting and be good to go.

steve

[Goob]

lol man i dont know what the problem is i put the 158 back in last night still doing the same thing somebody told me it could be bad gas but ive been through two tanks of new gas since then running 93 may buy a new air filter and see if that helps if not idk what else to do

[jake"08"400]

Have you checked your compression yet? Just because you can't see that its using oil just by checking it don't mean its not, also do you put a plug are anything in your exhaust? If you let it set outside and it rain it could have your exhaust packing broken up and that mite be what your seein coming out of your bike.

[Goob]

Naw haven't checked compression and I don't use a plug how often doni need to change the packing just got the exhaust last year But it does sit outside most of the time but under a top and the other day when I said the plug was solid black after I ran it a while it looked normal I just don't think it's the rings cause it done this once last year just not near as bad but went away after like a day

[jake"08"400]

If moisture is getting in it itl wear down the packing faster. usually you can tell by sound itl get louder as the packing fails. But that's just an idea idk for sure if that's it but if you don't think its the rings then that could be your problem also is your filter clean have you cleaned it and oiled it lately and cleaned out your airbox.

[jake"08"400]

Also this might be just an alabama store but if you have a hi-tech fuels around there gas has no ethonal in it. I am a proven fact that ethonal is bad on single cylinder are any engine I burnt a husqarvana chain saw up using gas with ethonal in it. Also youl quad are vechicle will get better gas milage with 100% gas in it. I've tested that theroy also.

Ran my 2004 mustang gt empty filled up with shell gas 93 octane got 130 miles on a half a tank of gas. My tank is 15 gallons so I got ruffly 17 miles to a gallon.

Ran that gas complety out filled up with hi tech 100% gasoline 93 octance. Got 145 miles to half a tank of gas. Which is 19 miles per gallon. So in my view there is no doubt that hi-tech 100% gas is better than normal gas with 10% ethonal.

[Goob]

I have thought about the filter but it really ain't that bad I just cleaned out the airbox I'll have to wait and see tomorrow if that help any do u guys run k&n or uni I've thought about switching to a uni

[honda400ex2003]

i have ran a k&n with and outer wear for many years with no issues at all. as long as it gets cleaned regularly it is good to go.

steve

[jake"08"400]

I run a k&n with an outerwears for over a year now with no problems actually 2 years. If you keep it clean you want have any problems with your airfilter. Most people don't know how to are just to lazy to take care of there filters.regardless of brand.....

[Goob]

I think I'm just gonna run it and keep an eye on. The oil I really don't know what else to do plus I got new wheels and tires suppose to be here tomorrow so I'm excited bout that lol

[Goob]

Quick question guys just got my wheels and tires in I got t9 Bajas and was wondering on the wheels there is a gap and when u tighten the nuts it closes and was wondering I'd it needed to be closed all the way around or just where the nuts ate and also what tire pressure

[jake"08"400]

I would just tighten all the nuts down good and ride it lol. But as far as tire pressure I normally run 4 to 5 in the rear and 5 to 6 in the front no less than 4 pounds but I usually like the way 5 feels.

[CJM]

The wheels either have inserts in them where the lugnuts go or its flat. If its the inserts you can use the stock lugnuts as they are conical (like a car) if the hole is flat you need to buy flat lug nuts or use washers if your really strapped. Buy the lug nuts, I got some really nice ones from rocky mtn for like a buck each, sooo worth it.

[honda400ex2003]

arent t-9s bead locks? i think that is what he is referring to. i would snug them to probably 20 ft lbs and call it a day. i run about 4 and 6 in my rears and fronts.

if in fact you are talking about the lugs, you can flip the lug to the flat side and run a washer on each of them if the rim is flat or run the reg lug if tapered as marc said.

im a bit confused on the statement. lol

steve

[Goob]

I turned them to the flat but didn't use washers

[Goob]

Will that b ok

[tri5ron]

Originally posted by Goob
Will that b ok No,.. not really.

You should use washers, so the STEEL lugnuts and not turning/tightening/grinding up against the ALUMINUM wheels.
that's why it has already been suggested for you to use Washers.

[honda400ex2003]

x2 def not recommended. lol steve

[Goob]

K I'll have to get washers then

[Goob]

I found some Itp flat lugs on motosport.com for 30 dollars shipped is that about right or a little too high they are also 14mm is that the right size and I know I was confusing on the question earlier it's hard for me to explain it without u seeing it and us I was I. A hurry but where u bolt the tires on there is like a gap on the inside Of the wheels that go all the way around and when I tighten the lugs it closes I just didnt know if I needed to tighten it til it closed allthe way wrights or not sorry if your still confused lol

[honda400ex2003]

whoa...


is it just me or was that a hard one to read. i think it is time for bed... sorry.

ill hit you back in the morning if no one else answers. my brain is fried for the night. freaking homework...

steve

[jake"08"400]

Yep no sense at all? But get the bolts tighten them good and go lol

[Goob]

Lol k I'll just tighten them and not worry I guess I just won't run it til the flat lugs come in

[jake"08"400]

Don't forget to put washers on good luck and take us a pic I wana see it with black rims. Would you sell your stockers?

[CJM]

yea lol.. :confused:

Like I said you can tell immediately when looking at the wheel what kinda you need. The ones that need the conical (rounded style like OE lugs) have an insert in the hole.

And yea the ITP lugs are 14mm, same ones I run and never had an issue.

[Goob]

I haven't decided on selling or not but I got the polished wheels instead of black but I had my stocks painted with the bed liner and the black looks great to me but somebody told me if I didn't get them powder coated they wouldn't hold up
Even if I bought them like that but I like the polished look to I'll post a pic maybe tomorrow and will I still need to put washers on even with the flat lugs

[CJM]

yea, post up some pics if you can it would greatly help.

I wanted to get the black wheels-but even powder coated imho just wont hold up over time. I could be wrong, but Im not willing to pay to find out.

[Goob]

K cant post a pic right now I'm doing this off my iPhone and not sure if you even can off the phone but there is not an insert and I'm almost positive it will be the flat lugs they are Itp t9 Bajas you could google them on google image and it shows them but I won't need the washers if I get the lugs right and I was like you I was goin to pay all that money to see if they woulld hold up or not

[CJM]

Almost positive those use flat style lugs

[honda400ex2003]

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/418cMLfNdwL._SL500_AA300_.jpg

that one uses washers. steve

[Goob]

K thanks man i won't need washers right if I get the flat lugs

[jake"08"400]

I think you need to use washers yes.

[honda400ex2003]

correct. why not just get some washers and flip your lug nuts you have now? much easier and alot cheaper to get some stainless washers to use.

steve

[jake"08"400]

But maybe I'm wrong?:huh

[Goob]

I'm a little confused I know it needs to be flat but if I get the flat lugs i won't need washers too that's the point of the flat lugs right

[honda400ex2003]

torque everything to 57 ft lbs and call it a day...


steve

[CJM]

IDK lol I dont have those wheels-looks to me like you wont need the washers as the flat ITP style lugs have a washer kinda built into them.

If you look at this pic, its the one on the left. Thats what I use on some douglass wheels with just the holes, no insert like the stock wheels.


http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31IOC%2Bk2K4L.jpg

[Goob]

heres a pic guys and those are the lugs im gonna order prolly gonna go ahead and use washers with the stock lugs til i order them but back to the smoking went riding right before dark tonight and one time it shot a flame out my tailpipe and was still smoking so wouldnt that mean its the jetting

[CJM]

Yea, Id say jetting is the culprit here.

Whats the plug look like?

[Goob]

One side of te plug is a dark tan and the other is still kinda white it hasn't been in but for a few weeks

[Goob]

Well guys imay have found the problem one of them anyway took my carb off and one of the hoses that goes into it was busted and had a hole in it I can def tell it's running better but it's still smoking

[jake"08"400]

How did a hose get busted on your carb? Do you leave it outside all the time are something? You must be pretty ruff on your ole honda:D

[Goob]

No I take care of my stuff if may be from staying outside but have no other choice but it's under a top just not enclosed it's was one of the short hoses on the side

[Goob]

Another thing I haven't been riding cause I still Haven't got the flat lugs but I've noticed my front tires have. Slight wobble anybody know what that could be

[Goob]

The thing I was talking about the wheels that was so confusing for me to describe is it's like a two piece wheel and when u tighten the lugs it compresses together and I was wonderig If it wasn't tight all the way around if that could cause my front tires to have a wobble you can't tell when riding just when I was puttin them on and turning by hand and they ate brand new wheels and tires