Flipping wheels

[CJM]

So screwing around in the garage today I finally drilled out the lug holes for my rear douglas wheels (always were a bit tight) so they fit on properly.

Then I had a thought: I like to ride in the woods, problem is I have an extended axle I got with the quad. Never was a big problem but the trails around here arent that tight either.

So I flipped the rear wheels inside out (they are 3+5) so the +3 is on the outside and the +5 is on the inside. Narrowed the rear from 48.5" to about 45.5" pretty much stock rear width.

Wondering, think it would cause a problem? thinking about riding like that just to see how it handles.

[NMills]

Guess my only thoughts are this... do you have directional tires??? and the taper on the lug nuts is not boring the lug hole bigger ..... is it??? ... other then that... i would imagine you'd be fine...

[CJM]

Nope not directional.

The lug nuts arent the tapered type btw, they use the flat mount style nuts. I drilled it out slightly was b/c I kept smacking the wheels on there. I havent damaged the threads, but Im sure it will happen over time. I literally increased the hole by 1/16 of an inch.

Why Im asking these odd questions, is Im trying to setup the perfect mix of an XC/MX quad and figure out a-arm and axle widths before I order stuff and I lose my shirt reselling it.Right now it sucks cause the front is quite tippy no matter what I do.

I like woods trails and the fast sand pit/dune riding we have around here where more of a wider front MX setup would benefit. Trails are width enough for +2 arms but that isnt always the case for everywhere ya go. The stability and smoothness of the front you gain of the +2 front is very appealing to me overall.

Currently I sit with: stock front 43.3" and rear is 48.5 inches extended

Im basically stuck between:

A: Leave the rear extended (its a g-force axle) and do +2 and if I feel too wide swap to 4+1 fronts (more cash of course) Total width +2 would be around 47.5, 4+1 and +2 goes to 46.5. Im not sure how much 1" really matters but who knows?

B. Leave rear alone and do +1 arms. Makes it 45.5, but is there even much of a gain in stability for the price your paying?

Im thinking A is my ticket. Worst case is I spend another 100 bucks on 4+1 wheels

Long travel is nice but even more cash. Ill need new shocks and the arms are always much more.

Such choices, ugh...and yes, even I sometimes need advice. Im an indecisive jerk lol..really..

[Scro]

A rear end being wider than the front will contribute to pushing in the corners. Ideally, you want to be 1/2" narrower in the rear than the front (no matter if it's XC or MX width). As for flipping the rims, you should be fine. Being 45.5", your right rear may rub the exhaust at full compression, but it won't cause any damage besides scrub marks on the canister.

There are many other factors that make a quad handle good besides overall width. Front end adjustments, shock setup, wheel offset choice, and steering stem choice all play a role in how well it handles. A good +1 setup with the proper shocks, will handle better than a +2 setup with poorly worked shocks.

[honda400ex2003]

or you could sell me your g-force for a good price and find a stocker for an even better price. :D then i can get some +2 arms and be all set.


steve

[CJM]

I spose I could Steve. I know Dustin is saying that 1/2 is worth it (im sure it is). But if I was to go +2, wind up at 47.5 that makes it almost the same width (rear is still 1 inch wider) with the axle on it. Pretty close to the ideal Dustin mentioned.

IDK what to do lol. I dont want to spend out the wazoo, but it would be nice to have some kinda setup that works better than what I got.

Im thinking best thing to do is +2, if I dont like it Ill grab some 4+1s and work on the rear axle after that. Plan is to then send out my front and rear shocks to C&D

If I want to get crazy I take the axle to machinist and they could make the hub splines longer and I could then use some HREW/DOM piping and make my own spacers. Right now it ends splines end and the small spacer (maybe 1/4) goes there to take up the gap. No idea if they could elongate the splines really, Im sure it could be done tho.

[jtalleman]

thats funny i was just thinkn bout doing that to my quad rims to widen the front a little more i think i might try it also on the mx track and see how it handles i dont imagine it would hurt anything

[Scro]

You don't want to do it with your front rims for many reasons. Handling is worse, more feedback through the bars, excessive bearing wear, exposed brake calipers, etc.

[PLF]

I see guys all the time with flipped front wheels, IMO I think it looks fuggly... And not sure its pretty good for wheel bearings and wheel bending...


EDIT: loll got keyboard raced :P

[CJM]

Originally posted by Scro
You don't want to do it with your front rims for many reasons. Handling is worse, more feedback through the bars, excessive bearing wear, exposed brake calipers, etc.

No that of course I know for sure, its a really bad thing to do.

For now I think Im gonna do plan A

[CJM]

I kinda made up my mind: To ride in the woods where I go +2 works fine in most areas, BUT if I was to go other places I might as well not even go as I know I wont fit.

Found a mint used stock axle for cheap on ebay, and I think Im gonna do +1 arms. If I really want more width I spose I could come close to +2 with some 3:2 wheels and the +1 arms.

The rear axle as Dustin pointed out really does push in the corners horrible. It makes it nearly impossible to take a tight turn and not tip (least you feel like it). Only way to correct that is to try and match it with a wider front-widen the front that leaves me off the narrow woods trails in some places-Imagine driving all the way somewhere and then you cant do jack cause you dont fit!!

So the stock axle and +1s it is. Then revalve down the line and maybe run a GT Thunder XC link. The +1s cant be any worse than the stock front, one the arms on mine is shot anyways, camber is WAY bad (top of the tire points in).

Maybe one day Ill find a set of +2 arms for cheap and then I can have best of both worlds..till then I think Ill be happy.

Anyone wanna talk me out of it?

[finsteratv]

i thought i just saw some +2 for sale in the classifieds for 300.
sounds like you have a pretty good plan..cant really go to wide if your mostly xc.

[CJM]

Yea I really would like the +2 just for the stability, but riding on trails is something I love to do and I dont want to be bashing my wheels and tires on trees all day.

Its a good compromise Id say, I could always find some 3:2 wheels later on or +2s.

If where I rode had actual dunes and not what I like to term "sand mountains" (hard packed sand) then I really was leaning towards the +2, but for now they just wont work where I need them too-too wide. You dont realize that when your riding in tight quarters that you steer the front and the rear even if its wider will follow rather easy-but widen that front too much and places you could steer thru before become difficult.