What hotcams is this? rebuild, lots of pics.

[2001400exrida]

well i tore the motor apart today, everything looks good except for the cam chain guides and the excess carbon on the valves from the seals being bad.


a couple questions, do i have to take off the side cover to get the longer cam chain guide out/in?

also, this thing has a hotcam, not sure what stage. how do i find out? and is there any way for me to set my valves to spec with this cam...i don't know how it will find top dead center now?

i plan on getting the xr400 cam chain and guides.


http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m93/rschaef83/IMG_0873.jpg


http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m93/rschaef83/IMG_0875.jpg

http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m93/rschaef83/IMG_0877.jpg

http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m93/rschaef83/IMG_0880.jpg

http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m93/rschaef83/IMG_0879.jpg

http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m93/rschaef83/IMG_0882.jpg

http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m93/rschaef83/IMG_0883.jpg

http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m93/rschaef83/IMG_0887.jpg

http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m93/rschaef83/IMG_0888.jpg

[PaRedneckRiders]

We need the number off the cam to tell you what stage it is.

[honda400ex2003]

those internals dont look too bad imo.

On the guides, i dont think that you have to take the side cover off, you should be able to drop them back into the correct slots on the sides of the cylinder when doing the install. They should come out when the cylinder is unbolted if i remember correctly. man it has been quite some time since i did mine... some of this stuff is getting harder to remember. the new stuff has to go somewhere. lol

the cam will have numbers on it that can either be referenced on a couple of the cam comparison threads on here or the hot cam site. the comparison thread has all of the past and present cams in it so that one will be the easiest to look at.

get a crf 450 2002 chain if you want a bigger chain, the guides will be the same for either engine also so that wont really do any good.

TDC can be found off of the flywheel still and should be done that way anyway. then the cam goes in correctly and gets lined up with the marks to make sure it is in time with the flywheel. the flats on the sprocket will be flush with the side of the head when it is properly timed. I think the cam lobes will be down in the head since the cam will not be pressing on the valves at that point. the rockers will then have play in them right there and the correct lash can be set once everything is torqued down again.


steve

[CJM]

Gotta remove the sidecase cover to get the other cam guide out, it bolts on.

Use the mark on the flywheel to find TDC. Take put the cam gear and chain and put them together taking care to line up the marks on the gear with the top of the head. Then insert the cam lobes DOWN (it helps greatly to have two people) and secure the cam to the cam gear.

Make sure and replace the auto tensioner of the side of the block as well.

[426kidz]

also make sure to replace the gasket for the tensioner...mine leaked a little, had to replace the gasket.

[2001400exrida]

thanks guys.

my auto tensioner only comes out like a quarter inch so that thing is shot. I broke off a bolt that holds the tensioner on so i'm taking it to the machinist this week to have them drill it out so i don't mess up my cylinder.

yeah the cam chain guide that goes the deepest is the one that wouldn't come out, i was wondering if i had to take the cover off, thanks for answer CJM. guess i'll need a side cover gasket as well haha.

Also, when i took my cam off i took it out with the sprocket still attached. So wheni go to set the timing during assembly, i should take the sprocket off and get it lined up and then insert the cam into the sprocket and bolt it down right?

http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m93/rschaef83/IMG_0899.jpg

[CJM]

You can leave the came together, but its just WAY easier to take it apart and do it. BTW you want to loctite the bolts on it when you put it back together with the blue strength bottle.

[honda400ex2003]

marc thanks for clearing that up on the guide. i wasnt sure on how it went in. i seemed to recall lifting mine out of the slots but that may have just been the top of it instead.

sorry bout the mistake,
steve

[2001400exrida]

i was gonna try to drill that screw out myself but i've decided to have a machinist do it, what do you guys think?

far as locktite, CJM, were you referring to the sprocket screws. Yeah i'm gonna take the sprocket off and get it set in there correct and then attach the came to it.

[CJM]

Yes the sprocket screws callf or blue loctite.

You could drill it, but unless you have a drill press its hard to keep the bit straight. Not to mention you could windup having to tap it as well or helicoil it if you make a mistake.

TIP: When reassembling everything dip every single bolt or nut in oil and put together oiled up. Works very well and will keep the fasteners from breaking next time hopefully.

[crownandmonster]

Originally posted by CJM
Yes the sprocket screws callf or blue loctite.

You could drill it, but unless you have a drill press its hard to keep the bit straight. Not to mention you could windup having to tap it as well or helicoil it if you make a mistake.

TIP: When reassembling everything dip every single bolt or nut in oil and put together oiled up. Works very well and will keep the fasteners from breaking next time hopefully.


I would not recommend putting oil on any bolt where torque specs are critical (cylinder bolts and the nuts for the head studs). They oil will cause incorrect torque numbers and will not yield the proper pre-load on the bolts. Use an actual torque lube.

[CJM]

Originally posted by crownandmonster
I would not recommend putting oil on any bolt where torque specs are critical (cylinder bolts and the nuts for the head studs). They oil will cause incorrect torque numbers and will not yield the proper pre-load on the bolts. Use an actual torque lube.

Maybe, but its worked for me for years on everything from mowers to full on race engines.

Manual itself says to oil them as well.

[crownandmonster]

Yea it does work, I've done it but only when i had to. When you use oil on the threads and try to tourqe you bolts to the 33 ft lbs or whatever for the cylinder bots, you aren't actually obtaining a true 33 ft lbs. Using something like ARP Ultra Torque lubricant helps achieve the 33 ft lbs. We use it on every motor we build. Its just my recommendation and its cheap insurance.


oh and BTW, the manual also says not to wheelie or jump.:D

[CJM]

Originally posted by crownandmonster
Yea it does work, I've done it but only when i had to. When you use oil on the threads and try to tourqe you bolts to the 33 ft lbs or whatever for the cylinder bots, you aren't actually obtaining a true 33 ft lbs. Using something like ARP Ultra Torque lubricant helps achieve the 33 ft lbs. We use it on every motor we build. Its just my recommendation and its cheap insurance.


oh and BTW, the manual also says not to wheelie or jump.:D

Touche my friend, touche. :cool:

[2001400exrida]

do any of those low torque bolts, like the ones you are explaining....require locktite? i know the cam sprocket will need locktite but what about the head bolts of the valve cover bolts? no loctite?

i was wondering because when i took my bolts out of the head cover, they were quite loose. especially the one bolt that was leaking oil right next to it, i believe it just needed torqued down.

after i took the valve cover off, i found that there was no gasket, the person had just used gasket maker instead of an actual gasket. i can tell they just dropped that hotcam in there and sealed it up and then tried to ride it. no wonder the valves were so noisy and it was leaking everywhere!

[CJM]

no, dont loctite anything else.

just be careful torquing those the 6mm bolts. the large nuts are 33 ft-lbs. BUT those small bolts are 7 ft-lbs and VERy easy to strip.

I think I might start just putting them together with a 1/4 ratchet and snug them from now on.

[2001400exrida]

ok so here's my question, are those 6 or 8 mm? my manual says 6mm and 8mm, but i used an 8 on all 12 of them.

[hocman123]

the bolts are 6mm threads with a 8 mm head other then the big one in the middle

[2001400exrida]

oh ok i gotya.

well i dropped the jug off to have that bolt drilled out. next i have to change the valve seals, on the head and replace the cam chain/tensioner/guides, then i'll get the side cover gasket and i should be good after that, unless..........

i thought my cylinder looked good, but after i got a flashlight in there , i do see a wear line.

do you guys think i should bore?

i can feel a tiny dip on the cylinder when i rub my finger on it, i can feel it much better when i use my fingernail down the cylinder. it's a small groove worn into it.

http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m93/rschaef83/IMG_0902.jpg

http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m93/rschaef83/IMG_0901.jpg

http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m93/rschaef83/IMG_0900.jpg

[CJM]

Honing it might get ride of the slightly gouge, its probably from the rings. But you may take away too much and be worse off

Boring will make sure its fine.

Id bore it to play it safe if you got the cash, 406 or 416.

[2001400exrida]

i was hoping to keep the same piston in it with no bore, but it sounds like the time to bore it and get a piston.

I think i wanna go with the 426, hopefully this cam is a stage 1, i will be mad if it's a stage 3 haha. i'm looking for grunt.

i was planning to grind the header welds too, i can't afford a pipe, i know it sounds bad, but i don't need a header, i need a piston more, so the money will go there.

[426kidz]

put some HD studs from gtthunder, and do an 11:1 wisco with a bore and a stage 2 hotcam....SOLID. do it right once and you wont have to go back for round 2.:D

[2001400exrida]

are the hd studs needed for the 426?

[hocman123]

the size goesn't matter it depends on the compression if u get 11:1 u should be ok but it is cheap insurance to keep big problems from comeing up later

[2001400exrida]

can i use stock gaskets on a 426 bore>?

the cam is ww-hchj no:7

[2001400exrida]

just got an email reply from hotcams.

the cam i have is a stage 1 and they don't recommend going bigger than a 426 with this cam, so i'm gonna stick with the stage 1 hotcam and the 426 big bore.

[CJM]

I think you will be quite happy. Id personally do an 10:1 piston b/c you may wish to add a sparks key later (something I wish i had done) that the lower comp ratio allows you. Plus it will work well with the stage 1 cam. If you dont liek the stage 1 cam you can always swap to a stage 2 anyways.

I would just go to cometic for all the gaskets, I bought the best kit they had that uses multilayered steel gaskets, the EST kit: http://www.cometic.com/est.aspx dont worry the smaller 86mm kit will work fine.

[2001400exrida]

ok, i already bought the tusk gasket kit for like 25-30 bucks on ebay, it had valve seals that's why i got it. hopefully it would hold up.

I'm still debating on the compression. how much more pop does the sparks key give vs. the 11:1 piston.

[AtvKid4Eva]

Originally posted by 2001400exrida
are the hd studs needed for the 426?

They are added insurance they are around $100 bucks installed from GT Thunder...the last thing you want is to get the whole bike put back together and have the head gasket keep blowing due to the studs pulling out..then if you ever build the motor bigger you already have them. they are beefy! hope that helps.

[CJM]

Tusk should be fine, least everything I ever bought from RMATV made by tusk was ok.

Sparks key, plus 10:1 is usually quite nice. You get the benefit of slightly raised compression and the timing advance-Without the heat issues so common to the higher comp pistons-thus you can still run on pump gas easily.

I kinda wish I had a 10:1 so I coulda throw the key in. for the 20 bucks+cost of the side cover gasket and my time I think its worth it.

[426kidz]

...id go with the cosmetic 89mm gasket kit for the 426 bore..89mmkit is what you will need.Cosmetic is the way to go! also with the 11:1 high comp piston.you can search my build for more help.;)

[2001400exrida]

do i need the 89mm cometic gaskets or can i use my stock bore tusk gasket kit that i alreayd bought?

[hocman123]

u will be fine with a stock size gaskit kit. the outside of the cylinder isn't growing just the inside.

but i don't know how good tusk is don't know anyeno who runs them. guess u can tell use all how it holds up :)

[AtvKid4Eva]

yeah you will be alright with the stock gasket kit. I read some horror stories about tusk gasket kits..you might wanna just return it and get the cometic since they are proven to be good. Or if your willing to risk it go ahead and give us a review on the tusk.

[426kidz]

if he is gettin it bored...he will need the bigger kit,right?

[CJM]

Doesnt matter the size gaskets, piston doesnt touch them.

[hocman123]

Originally posted by 426kidz
if he is gettin it bored...he will need the bigger kit,right?

no he doesn't just think about it. he is just changeing size of the inside on the sleeve but the out side isn't changeing at all and thats what matters when it comes to the gaskits. i really don't know why they have diferant sizes other then for 440 b/c i think then u need to resleeve when u do them.

[2001400exrida]

thanks for clearing that up fellas, i was wondering this all along even before i started the build.

good info!

[2001400exrida]

so, i'm looking at cam chain tensioners. the oem one on rocky mountain is like 70 bucks. should i get a manual one off of ebay? or look for a used stock on on ebay?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/NEW-CRU-Manual-Cam-Chain-Tensioner-Honda-TRX-400-400EX-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem3a5ce49a97QQitemZ25066 6588823QQptZMotorcyclesQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories

[CJM]

I would personally buy a stock unit, you cant know for sure how much tension is on the chain unless you have it open with a manual adjuster.

[426kidz]

yup straight from honda

[hocman123]

i got a used one from ebay for around 30 bucks shipped that also included one guide and have had no issues

[2001400exrida]

aight i ordered he honda one. what do you guys think i should put in my carb? it's got a 155 main and a 40 pilot right now, with 3rd clip setting. I only have DJ set so i'll have to do the conversion.

i'm at 500ft elevation, 11:1 426cc stage 1 hotcam with air filter, stock head with ground down welds, and slip on pipe.

[honda400ex2003]

i would suggest staying with the keihin stuff to get it dialed. the odds of getting it running good with the dj stuff is quite slim. there are a bunch of us that have been unsuccessful with the dj setups and finally had to go back to the keihin. it is much easier with that.

i would say to start with around a 178 or 180 on the main and leave the needle on the 3rd. maybe go 2.5 or 3 turns out on the f/a screw or just tune it accordingly when you get it running a bit.

steve

[CJM]

Please dont use DJ, I have tried a few times to get it dialed in and it always seems to never be right.

Im going back to keihin as soon as it hits a steady 55-65f outside b/c thats a good middle ground to be jetted for usually.

[honda400ex2003]

you havent messed with that yet marc? i thought you had it all converted already and dialed. lol

steve

[CJM]

Originally posted by honda400ex2003
you havent messed with that yet marc? i thought you had it all converted already and dialed. lol

steve


Im mostly waiting for the warmer weather to come. if I get it dialed in at 40 Ill have to open it up all again in a month or two when it becomes 60F+ outside.

[honda400ex2003]

lol i wasnt sure when we talked about that stuff. i thought maybe it was still warm enough when you decided to switch over.


sorry for invading a bit, we know the bad news that comes with the dj crap. both of us have tried and failed in our attempts to run them.

for stock stuff the dj stuff is ok, even running something like e85 is good with the dj kit because of the different needle taper, it helps richen up the mid circuit and make that gas run good in it.
keep it around in case you ever want to do something crazy like that in the future.
steve

[2001400exrida]

dang, i was hoping to use my DJ.

The carb already has a DJ main jet in it, i could tell that from the hex adapter thing.

I'm not sure if the person before me put the DJ needle in there as well or not.

I have all the DJ jets and i was hoping to use those in this carb but if DJ doesn't work well with the motor mods that i have then i won't even try it.

will i have to replace the needle if i put a stock mainjet in it? assuming, there is a DJ needle in there, how would i tell?

[honda400ex2003]

i wouldnt run the dj needle and would assume that it is in there if you are running the dj main.

unfortunately, i have a pic of both side by side but i am not sure if i can remember which is which without verifying it at home.

ill get the pic and look at it for a bit and see if i can figure out which one is which.


http://img710.imageshack.us/img710/1566/img0051vh.th.jpg (http://img710.imageshack.us/i/img0051vh.jpg/)
http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/799/img0143o.th.jpg (http://img153.imageshack.us/i/img0143o.jpg/)
http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/1875/img0142i.th.jpg (http://img526.imageshack.us/i/img0142i.jpg/)


they might be 450r carb needles also, i have to see if i can find the thread that we were talking about it in. by the looks of it though, the right one is a stock style one and the left is a dj one.

steve

[AtvKid4Eva]

ive never had luck with the DJ jets either..never could get it dialed in perfect. :ermm:

[2001400exrida]

still waiting on the head. in the meantime here's a video from my helmet cam on the 07 ex this past weekend.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHy2sADRoXA

[2001400exrida]

Well, I'm slowly making progress. I went to take the nut off the center of the clutch basket and without the tool i snapped of a piece of the inner clutch.

So, i ordered an inner clutch and the tusk tool (which worked perfectly!).

the chain and guides are replaced and the clutch is back together as well as the side cover.

now moving upward. I'll let you guys know when i get my cylinder and head back on, so we can do the startup.

[2001400exrida]

Just now got my cylinder back.

What's an average price for boring a cylinder? I was quoted $75 but ended up being charge $100 and it took him a month to do it!

[honda400ex2003]

75 is about right, 100 is probably a bit steep for taking that long. I think I paid right around 60-70 dollars for my bore and such but they do atv cylinders quite regularily.

Steve

[CJM]

50-75 is about going rate, 100 seems $$$.

[2001400exrida]

damm, i got ripped then.

Yeah this guy does cars for the most part. He's been doing it for 30 years though so i'm hoping he did a good job.

I'm bummed that i had to pay so much after waiting but everything looks good, i'm hoping to have this thing ready to go for the weekend.

[honda400ex2003]

it probably took him an hour and a half so he charged that much. if he isnt set up to do them then setup takes alot longer.

I paid 175 for a bore, valve seals, and a minor port job. they do atv cylinders and heads every day though so they just stick in and go. lol i had just over 2.5 hours in my whole thing. I had the head all apart though for the valve seals so that saved him some time. I dont recommend doing that though, he wasnt real happy about having it apart already.

steve

[CJM]

My friends buddy bought the boring machine from a dealer that closed up, next time I need one done im going there or another local shop.

I sent mine originally to Laz b/c I wanted the studs put in by him as well and didnt know anyone at the time that could. He gave me the bore and studs for 150 as a package at the time.

[2001400exrida]

my cylinder walls did get pretty thin. I'm amazed and what a 440 must look like. Mine damm near got all the way to the stud holes.

http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m93/rschaef83/IMG_0013.jpg

http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m93/rschaef83/IMG_0025.jpg

[2001400exrida]

got the clutch side cover and the piston installed last night.

Most of my time was spent cleaning off gasket material!

We gave it a couple tries to get the cylinder over the rings and it was proven difficult. Is there any trick to this? I'm using friend of mine and while he holds the rings i try to slide it down but it's a hell of a squeeze!

[CJM]

Thats pretty much the only way to do it.

I tried to do it on the bike but found it very hard. I removed the wristpin and took the piston and cylinder to my work bench and then I lubed the cylinder walls with 2 stroke oil, compressed the rings and put the piston in-making sure to leave enough sticking out so I could put it on the bike and put the wristpin back on.

[2001400exrida]

Originally posted by CJM
Thats pretty much the only way to do it.

I tried to do it on the bike but found it very hard. I removed the wristpin and took the piston and cylinder to my work bench and then I lubed the cylinder walls with 2 stroke oil, compressed the rings and put the piston in-making sure to leave enough sticking out so I could put it on the bike and put the wristpin back on.

That's what we had to do today. I got it done and took it for a warmup test spin and in ran great.

Does the keihen mainjet use an adapter? I took mine out and its a 148. It seemedto run fine wit this jettin which is wierd since I think it is stock.

What's a good size to use with 426 slip on and 700 ft elevation.

[honda400ex2003]

if it was a 148 it was the stock main.

id go to about a 175 main, 3rd notch, 42 pilot and 2.5 turns out on the f/a screw.

steve

[2001400exrida]

Ok, i'll get my jetting set to that.

Also, quick question. It's been awhile since i've changed the main jet on my 2007.

When i took this jet out of the 426, i noticed there's another gold hex thing, is that the stock adapter?

basically i pulled the 148 out and there is still a gold piece in the carb that the 148 comes out of, is that right?

I'm going to put a 175 in tonight. I've got a 42 pilot sitting here that i'm gonna throw in it too. Also, the needle is set on 3rd clip stock isn't it? If so i'll just leave that.

I'm just wondering why the quad ran so darn good with the stock jetting.

When i got it, it already had a supertrapp pipe and it seemed to be jetted fine but come to found out it's stock!

During the break in last night it didn't backfire or anything it ran strong all the way through. I know this is dangerous to run this lean with a new piston, but is everything going to be ok? I just did a 20 min. break in through all the gears up and down the field......I'll be sure to get it jetted right before i run it again though, don't wanna compromise my new 11:1 piston :)

[honda400ex2003]

the other brass part is sort of an adaptor but it is a long peice that goes up in there to help guide the needle and such.

http://www.bikebandit.com/houseofmotorcycles/2007-honda-trx400ex-sportrax-400ex-carburetor/o/m9622sch417434

number 26 ^^ i think about every other time i try to get a jet out, i get that brass one with it. lol its no big deal, just screw it back in and snug it up nicely when putting it back together.

it may be possible that you will be back down that far but it is very unlikely. mine ran good lean too they all do, thats the fun with a bit on the lean side. :devil:

everything should be fine though as long as you dont get real crazy with it.

steve

[2001400exrida]

ok, so even though it ran good, i should definetly put in the 175 main with the bigger pilot and try to tune to that right?

i don't have a whole lot of performance parts on it, it has the stock header still and a uni filter with the supertrapp slip on. If the piston still requires this big of a main jet then that's cool i just want to make sure!

i'm just glad i got it put together with the timing and everything just right! I was nervous about getting my timing onbut we hit it spot on!

lined the sprocket lines up with the head and then the T mark was right on the groove by the window so i think we did good!

also, i never set the valves and they were loose to begin with so the quad still ticks real loud. I'm going to use my hand feeler and set them back to stock and hopefully i can lose some of the tick haha, it's pretty loud!

[honda400ex2003]

yup, def go up.

sounds like it is coming along nicely. you will have to set the lash again anyway if you bought a new hotcam to put in it. I am not sure on that so i suggested it. if new it will break in and then you would have to do it anyway.

steve

[2001400exrida]

the hotcam was already in the motor before the rebuild so it's been broke in. I'm gonna go with my stock feeler guages since it's all i've got! how do you make the adjustment? I know that i take the caps off and slide the feeler in, but is there like a phillips or something or a nut that tightens and loosens?

[honda400ex2003]

http://www.atvriders.com/articles/valveadjustment400ex.html

that will explain how to adjust the valves.
you are close though, its an 11mm wrench i think then theres a flat head in the middle that gets turned after you get the nut loosened up a bit. then check the gap with your feeler guage and set it accordingly.

steve

[2001400exrida]

I just went to the dealership and picked up a 170 main and it is shorter than my stock jet and the hole is smaller. Will this work?

[honda400ex2003]

any pics of it? they are usually all the same if they are stock style. until i can verify what it is, i would say no.

steve

[2001400exrida]

it's gotta be the wrong one. It's not a dj and it's not a stock one. it's shorter than stock. I've got to go back to the dealer tomorrow and get the right jets.

[honda400ex2003]

i would be willing to bet that it is for a mikuni although there arent any hondas that i know of that use a mikuni any more. lol

yamaha jets will also work if you have a dealer closer.

take yours with you when you go for reference.

if you get a pilot you can get a 26 series but i am not sure on what the series is on the mains.

lol
steve

[2001400exrida]

I have a 42 pilot that didn't work with my 07 (i ended up using a 40 in it).

I'll put that 42 in the 426 along with the proper 170 jet today.

here's the 170 they gave me and the stock 148 i took out.

http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m93/rschaef83/IMG_0029.jpg

[honda400ex2003]

thats a cute little guy! not sure what kind it is though, i wouldnt run it in my 400 thats for sure. lol

id suggest getting a few of them to help avoid more trips to the shop to get more of them. I usually recommend 2 each way of what i recommend so 5 jets total.

steve

[2001400exrida]

yeah, well i wanted to try for 1, if it was the right one it may have worked. I had the dynojet kit seperate and i tried to run the biggest jet with my kit (stage 1 and 2)
and it ran with the choke on, but would die when i turned the choke off.

That was with a stock needle.

[honda400ex2003]

the biggest dj jet in your kit would be at around a 190 keihin equivalent i wouldnt expect it to run at all with something that big.

steve

[2001400exrida]

i was wrong. I had a 170 main that my friend had from one of his machines. The 170 is what only ran with the choke on.

If I had it choked the 170 ran, but when i turned the choke off it would die.

does this mean i'm lean?

[honda400ex2003]

most likely it did. what kind of machine was it out of?

steve

[2001400exrida]

not sure, but it looked identical to the stock one i took out it was just a 170 so it had a bigger hole. but i think it is right
so i'm gonna go to a 175 now

[2001400exrida]

I got a 42 pilot and a 175 main in there and it ran great! a little back cackle on decel but i think that's my crappy packing in the pipe.

It runs strong too! I'm uploading a video for you guys to listen to the tick.

I tightened the valves a little today but didn't want to make any drastic adjustments so it's still ticking.

I need to get in and tighten the exhaust valves more.

[2001400exrida]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uYVZnUMz7-g

[honda400ex2003]

sounds like a winner. congrats, im glad you are happy with it. :D

final jetting- 175, 42, 2.5 turns out, needle 3rd notch?

steve

[2001400exrida]

2.75 turns out, 3rd notch.

[honda400ex2003]

cha ching :D

ill take a quarter turn on the f/a as a fine tuning adjustment when you get your packing fixed.

steve

[2001400exrida]

i'm looking at an LRD slip on right now for 100 bucks. it's 10 min. away on craigslist. very new looking.

[honda400ex2003]

nice! it probably wont change the jetting enough to worry about but it will be nicer than that supertrapp you have now.

lol
steve

[2001400exrida]

I can't get this thing to quit tickin. When it ticks are the valves usually too loose? I'm afraid to over-tighten the valves but they do still have some play in the rocker arms when the feeler is inserted.

Is the goal not to have any play at all when the feeler is inserted? I know you want slight resistance when you go to pull it out.

Anyway, it's a ticking away, not as bad as when the cam chain was wore out, but i am now worried that my chain or tensioner is not working even though they are brand new haha. let me know how to get rid of my tick!

[CJM]

Its gonna tick no matter what due to the lift and duration of the cam. If your valve lash is in specification Id leave it alone. I have mine set to factory specs btw.

[2001400exrida]

does anybody know if the ticking correlates to the valves being too loose or it from being too tight?

are they usually too loose? i just want to make sure i'm going the right way.

[CJM]

Its the hotcam dude, the valves bet hey adjusted back to stock specs or for the hotcam specs it wont matter. Like I said earlier, the hotcam makes them tick more. Dont worry about it.

[2001400exrida]

hmmm, ok i'll leave it. my buddy has a hotcam in his though and it doesn't tick as bad as mine. it ticks just not as bad.

[CJM]

Every 400 is different man, some tick worse than others. just make sure you adjusting the valves properly and it should be ok.

[2001400exrida]

ok, that's where my question is.

When setting the valves. Once i get TDC and play in the rocker arms. Is that play supposed to go away with the feeler inserted? I was basically holding the rockers up and then sliding the feeler in with slight pressure pushing dwon on the rockers. The intake valves are good to go, they don't have much play and they have slight resistance. It's the exhaust valves that i can't quite get where they need to be. Do i just need to make sure there is not any play in the rocker arms when the feeler is inserted?

[CJM]

Rocker arms should have play in them, thats how you know engines at TDC. I insert the feeler, it should have a decent resistance on it when I push it in and pull it out.

not much more else too it. I do not pull the rocker arms up to make the feeler gauge go in.

[2001400exrida]

Originally posted by CJM
Rocker arms should have play in them, thats how you know engines at TDC.

not much more else too it. I do not pull the rocker arms up to make the feeler gauge go in.

well there will be play in the rockers without the feeler at TDC.

I was wondering if there's not supposed to be any play when the feeler inserted.

I'll just go a hair tighter and see if it quiets it down, if not i'll live with it, haha.

[CJM]

TBH IDK, never really noticed play or not with the gauge in there.

[2001400exrida]

well i'll try to tigthen them up a hair and see if my loud tick goes away.

[exracer416]

there should nto be play in the rockers with the CORRECT size feeler gauge inserted you should feel the guage drag when you move it in and out, dont over tighten, i guess a touch loose is better than too tight

[honda400ex2003]

http://www.atvriders.com/articles/valveadjustment400ex.html

might be worth taking a look at that before doing it.

steve

[2001400exrida]

i've already done it. I was just wondering about the rockers.

Thanks for answering, i'll get in there and make sure there is no play in the rockers when i set the clearance again.

I can get resistance and still have play in the rockers that's why i was wondering if the play is normal with the feeler inserted.

Thanks! I'm gonna tighten mine a hair more tomorrow

[honda400ex2003]

lol sorry i thought you were just getting ready to do it when i clicked it last time. lol i forgot that a couple pages back you said you did it. lol

steve

[2001400exrida]

Finally took the 426 for a good ride today. i'm getting some backfire on decel. It could be that i switched from the supertrapp pipe to the LRD.

Can i try to adjust this with the pilot screw or should i put a bigger pilot jet in?

Or is it the needle? it seems to run fine it just back cackles after i accellerate and let off the gas.

it ain't no beauty queen but it should handle the trails very well.

http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m93/rschaef83/2011-04-17_15-56-19_171.jpg

http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m93/rschaef83/2011-04-17_15-56-25_730.jpg

http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m93/rschaef83/2011-04-17_15-56-04_455.jpg

[CJM]

Id try turning the air/fuel screw out another turn and see if it goes away.

[honda400ex2003]

my vote would be 1/4 turn at a time till it goes away but you will probably end up around 1 turn out when done anyway. lol

steve

[2001400exrida]

i'm already at 2 and 3/4 turns. so i'll see what 3 1/4 turns does for me.

[2001400exrida]

well it's been a few weeks since the quad was rebuilt. I've done several days of riding so i wanted to report back.

Everything is holding up just fine! the valves were noisy after adjustment so i tightened them down even more and now they are quiet as can be! they are even more quiet than my 2007 stock motor.

Also, for anybody curious about the Tusk gaskets. they worked great for me! no leaking at all!

did anyone remember to tell you that hotcams should be adjusted 1 thousandth over stock. taking it to .005 and .006 as opposed to .004 and .005 respectively?hotcams are supposed to tick,its what they do.overtight is not good.you might like the absence of a tick but at what cost down the road.

[2001400exrida]

you need to read the whole thread dude. we have already discussed that.

hotcams recommends .005, .006 for cam break in.

setting it to stock is no problem.

did but im doing like 10 things at once, my bad just tryin to help.hope its workin well for u.

[2001400exrida]

Well i did some damage.

Took it out to Badlands for the weekend and it ran great the first day all day. Probably 5 hours of riding.

Then it started ticking louder this morning. It couldn't have been the valves ticking it was real loud almost sounded like a diesel.

Anyway, after riding most of the morning with the loud tick, it finally crapped out this afternoon. It just lost compression and died. Now when i turn it over there is no compression it won't fire at all.

What do you guys think happened? Does it sound like the cam chain got loose, or did i blow a piston?

[CJM]

Could be the cam chain, when you crank it does it make a glug glug noise?

Id do a comp test first to see what its reading it.

[2001400exrida]

no reason to do a comp test, it's very obvious that it has no compression haha. the starter turns over way faster than it does with compression. there is no glug glug noise. it just cranks fast.

there was never any smoke or anything though so i think my piston and rings are fine, but something happened and it just shut down and it won't start at all. i've checked spark plug and stuff like that. not sure what else it could be so i'm gonna have ot open it up.

it was ticking crazy loud so obviously something wasn't right.

i put a band new cam chain, guides and tensioner in there so i'm hoping it's none of those things, but the way it was ticking so loud had to be the cam. I'm also thinking i may have messed up a valve or something too? it just got louder and louder throughout the day. It was a bad tick at the end of the day yesterday haha.

[2001400exrida]

any of tech heads have any ideas?

It may actually have compression.....would this be a sign???

if i turn the motor over in gear it will roll the quad, would that just be the starter rolling it or does that mean it has compression?

[CJM]

Take the tensioner off and check it, mighta got a bum tensioner.

[2001400exrida]

would that cause it to not start?

[CJM]

Originally posted by 2001400exrida
would that cause it to not start?

Yes.

Same exact thing happened to a buddy of mine, went riding it quit within 10 mins and would turn over-it seemed like it had compression but it didnt kick over.

Timing tensioner blew, also his chain was stretched and the guides were bad as well.

Its just one thing to check, this way you know what direction you should go instead of getting nowhere.

[2001400exrida]

i'll check the tensioner, any chance that rocky mountain would garuntee a part like this? i purchased it brand new from them.

it sounded just like the wheeler sounded before i did the rebuild. and my old cam chain and tensioner and guides were shot to hell.

hopefully i didn't tear up my guides or chain this time, hopefully it's just the tensioner, but do you think there is something else going on that's causing my tensioners to fail?

[CJM]

If you have all brand new stuff it should be fine, thats the baffling part. About all I can think of is improper installation or the sprocket gear the chain rides on being worn causing problems.

As for RMATV and returning the part-might have an issue as they are having issues with carrying honda parts now for some reason.

[2001400exrida]

we will see what happened. I think the tensioner failed. There's something causing this though, cuz like i said the first time the knock got louder and louder so i did a complete rebuild. this time it did the same thing and i bet the cam chain might be shot now too. not sure what's happening but it ran great for a few weeks and then after a big weekend at badlands it decided to quietly die.

RMATV says they are having problems with the vendors that they go through.

They are going to have somebody contact me about the part warranty.

[2001400exrida]

I drained the oil and saw metal all over the place. Took the head cover off and it was disaster.

Cam sprcoket was loose on the cam and one of the cam sprocket bolts was laying on the head shredded. the cam chain was laying on the bearing side of the sprocket. it's bound up I'm pretty sure i can't get it loose. I don't know for sure what happened yet, it's hard to tell. We used locktite on the cam sprocket bolts i can tell you that. I really really really hope my piston or cylinder isn't shot from all this metal.

http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m93/rschaef83/IMG_0045.jpg

http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m93/rschaef83/IMG_0046.jpg

http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m93/rschaef83/IMG_0049.jpg

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http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m93/rschaef83/IMG_0082.jpg

http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m93/rschaef83/IMG_0089.jpg

http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m93/rschaef83/IMG_0088.jpg

http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m93/rschaef83/IMG_0093.jpg

http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m93/rschaef83/IMG_0095.jpg

http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m93/rschaef83/IMG_0097.jpg

[CJM]

Aw man that really sucks. Id take it all apart and see whats going on, if the head looks like that Im sorry to say I dont have high hopes for everything else

Possible you didnt tighten it enough?

[honda400ex2003]

didnt expect that kind of carnage this late at night. :devil: :eek2:

sorry for your loss there man! i hate seeing hundies down. it is in my thoughts. :(

that cam bolt must not have been tight enough or something.

steve

[2001400exrida]

it's time for a cr450 motor. I'm going to break down the rest of this tonight to see what kind of dmage it did to my piston.

[2001400exrida]

well i found a crf450 motor from a 2002. Does anybody have any experience putting these in a 400ex? Or any links to people that have done this before? I"ll have the motor and the carb

[2001400exrida]

piston and cylinder look good as new. the rings look good as well. Right now in order to get this thing back together i need......

cam, cam sprocket, head, head cover, gaskets. that's like $500 minimum so i may end up doing the 450 motor.

the cam chain and guides look just fine.

[honda400ex2003]

thats pocket change for you man! lol sorry for your loss again your hundy has been in my prayers.

steve

[honda400ex2003]

Originally posted by 2001400exrida
well i found a crf450 motor from a 2002. Does anybody have any experience putting these in a 400ex? Or any links to people that have done this before? I"ll have the motor and the carb

best place to check would be the hybrid section. they have quite a bit of good stuff over there.

steve

[2001400exrida]

i found a 400ex head, head cover and stock cam and sprocket for 100 bucks so i'm not going with the hybrid.

I'm just going to put new valve seals in this head and then lap it real quick and then install in on my 426 cylinder.

is there any special way to get these shavings out of my motor, i'm worried about the lower end bearings. I drained all the oil and poured another 2 quarts of oil in and then drained that.

I remember seeing somewhere about an oil screen. I know there is one under the oil tank. I've got the side cover off, is there one in there?

[hocman123]

there is one on the right side in the oil pump it has been a long time sence i have seen it but i belive there is just a 10 or 12 mm bolt on or just below the pump and when u take it off the srceen is in there and u just need to clean it well and put it back

[2001400exrida]

so, i just want this thing back together, will a stock cam work? i have everything i need to reassemble this as long as i can use the stock cam with the high comp 426 piston.

what do you guys think?

also, the stock cam has the decomp mechanism on it, is there something on the head that needs to work with that?

[2001400exrida]

Boy i don't miss this carnage. Just to follow up, i got this put back together about 4 months ago. Still running the same cylinder and piston. replaced the head and put a stage 2 hotcam in, so far so good. I was worried about putting it back together due to all the metal that shredded off the head, but i've done 2 oil changes now and everything looks clean so i think i lucked out. What a mess though. Don't forget the locktight on those cam sprocket bolts!