info walsh suspension

[bajax]

i bought a walsh frame with no link and I don't know which lenght I need for front shock and the rear shock with the cr500 linkage
anybody have an idea? I don't have my front a-arm yet but i'm looking for roll design +3 long travel or houser +2.5 long travel

[matt250r21]

My Walsh 250R used 19.25 eye to eye front shocks and 18.5 eye to eye for the CR500 link rear shock.

[josborn]

Im sure 19.25 will work, Walsh told me to get 19" shocks for mine. My rear is 18.5" as well for cr500. CRF450 link is 18.25", I believe.

[bajax]

do you have long travel a-arm for 19.25? just to be sure before I bought them .and is it +2 or+3 a-arm?

[josborn]

Mine are long body, +3 arms. They are designed to run 4+1 wheels and sit near 50"'s wide.

http://www.exriders.com/vbb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=458295

Scroll through the link above, I believe there are pics of my front end in there.

[SilverLake250R]

I am not sure Walsh frames take long travel arms like you want. Mine takes 19.25" shocks, but the arms are standard travel. This is because the upper shock location has moved rather than the lower shock location, allowing the use of LT shocks with ST arms, giving you more ground clearance.

Correct me if I am wrong josborn but I don't think those are the Walsh long body arms that you have. They are the older style gullwing flattie arms. Long body arms are used on stock frames to use LT shocks.

Here is a pic of Walsh long body arms, they style is close to the same, but look how much more of a bend they have to lower that shock mount.
http://www.walshracecraft.com/images/th_trx250r-aarm-longbody-cr.jpg

Bajax- I am afraid you will need close to 21" shocks if you get Roll or Houser long travel arms.

Here is mine-

[josborn]

I looked on the Walsh site, and under long body 250r I get a pic (black arms) that looks like my arms. So, i assumed mine are long body. i guess that i dont know that for sure. What are yours (silver lake)? i have seen those before, but don't know if they have a title. Are those newer or older than long body (and flatties for that matter)

http://www.walshracecraft.com/index.cfm?cfid=1580238&cftoken=22349635&fuseaction=product.details&ProductID=88147

[bajax]

the guys frow I bought the frame had gibson long travel +3 arms and it fit but I don't know if it works good with it . there is a guy's who sell walsh a-arms for 450r long travel +2+1 does it fit on my frame ? he use these a-arms with 20 inches shock on a 450r . i know that on a stock frame we can put 400ex,450r arms but on the walsh frame is it possible?

[SilverLake250R]

I did a bunch of research on this when I got mine in November. From what I found, Walsh had 3 main styles for their frames. The first was like mine, built around 2000, some before, some after. The only other ones like mine I have seen were on 3leggeddog's crf (QOTM) that is now owned by liverideatv.

The next ones are like yours (josborn), they have a shock mount like a ST arm, but still have a bar that goes under it making it somewhat a gullwing style. There are a lot of these around, including 8686, who is currently building a Walsh 250R.

Third, they make flattie arms, which look exactly like yours, but don't have that bar underneath. Doc-bones has them on his Walsh 250R and I have seen others on this site. Here are the flattie arms on Doc-bones quad-
http://www.exriders.com/vbb/attachment.php?s=&postid=2960376

As far as I can tell, these three types have the same/very similar geometry, but they are all built different, the newest ones being the lightest, while still very strong.

I know Walsh also made a variety of arms for flat track racing, which were very lightweight and had sway bar mounts. Jrspawn has some on one of his-
http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i309/jrspawn/Walsh250r0031.jpg

I wouldn't mind getting a newer style, but then again, mine are pretty unique and it's cool to have something you don't see everyday.

[SilverLake250R]

Originally posted by bajax
the guys frow I bought the frame had gibson long travel +3 arms and it fit but I don't know if it works good with it . there is a guy's who sell walsh a-arms for 450r long travel +2+1 does it fit on my frame ? he use these a-arms with 20 inches shock on a 450r . i know that on a stock frame we can put 400ex,450r arms but on the walsh frame is it possible?

I'll be honest, I don't know. I do know East Coast ATV used to sell Walsh frames with Gibson arms, but I don't know what shock length they take. I also know some newer Walsh frames take 450R parts, but I'm not sure of the earlier versions.

[josborn]

So are mine long body? Or is long body a term to describe some other arms?

[SilverLake250R]

I believe long body is the term Walsh uses to describe their longtravel arms, which are made for stock-style frames. Maybe danhung or hontrx265r could confirm this, I think they have both had the long body arms.

[matt250r21]

Silverlake you have 1st generation Walsh MX arms built around 1999

Josborn you have the same arms that I had on my Walsh, I think they are 2nd generation MX arms. I got mine in 2001 and I think they were called long body but I cant remember for sure.

[89trx250r]

silverlake i think the reason eastcoastatv was selling those setups is because dave the owner is also the guy who owns gibson. So i believe he was designing the aarms for the frames(not 100% sure) tried to get him to make me some this past summer but he didnt seem very interested anymore.

[8686]

Here's a couple pics of my 2001 Walsh 250R just for comparison.



http://i52.tinypic.com/2lw1xn6.jpg

http://i56.tinypic.com/55no84.jpg

[Pro1200]

yea Josborn looks like u have longbody gull wing generation from Walsh. Their newer style a-arms they run on their hybrid frames are now the flattie style which is supposed to be a better design.

[gtilley45]

Originally posted by SilverLake250R
I do know East Coast ATV used to sell Walsh frames with Gibson arms, but I don't know what shock length they take.

I think those used a 21" front shock.

It was my understanding that these are longbody a arms......
http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd132/gtilley45/Hybrids/mobmain4.jpg
http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd132/gtilley45/Walsh%20YZ%20hybrid/Picture110.jpg

and these were flatties......
http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd132/gtilley45/Hybrids/pgregg852.jpg

I was also told that the only difference between the two was that flatties have more ground clearance.

[Yfz245]

So if I'm understanding this right the Walsh frames the upper shock mount is higher? And silver lake I have a set of a arms just like yours and my question is if I mount them on my laeger narrow frame am I gonna have to use standard travel shocks? Or is the upper shock mount on the Walsh and laeger the same?

[danhung11]

Why not just call Mike or Nate? They are great guys to deal with. Will probably make you any style of arm they ever had in production or not....

1725 South Ohio Avenue, Live Oak, FL 32064
(phone) 386.364.4942 | (fax) 386.364.1730 | sales@walshrc.com

[bajax]

anybody has flatties a-arms for sale for the 250r frame?
or i can have walsh 450r flow mx a-arm for 450r and the guy use 20 inches shock on it on a 450r they are +2+1 long travel

[SilverLake250R]

Originally posted by Yfz245
So if I'm understanding this right the Walsh frames the upper shock mount is higher? And silver lake I have a set of a arms just like yours and my question is if I mount them on my laeger narrow frame am I gonna have to use standard travel shocks? Or is the upper shock mount on the Walsh and laeger the same?

Laeger's upper shock mounts are different than Walsh. I would think that you would have to use ST shocks, but The only way to know for sure would be to set the frame up with the arms, set your desired ride height, and take measurements. I wouldn't be surprised if these Walsh arms, all three generations, are somewhere in between a LT and ST arm.

[SilverLake250R]

Maybe I can clarify this better.

Look directly at the front of an a-arm, and draw a line between the center of the pivot and the center of the ball joint. On LT arms, the shock mount will be almost exactly on this line.

Here is my other bike with Roll arms.
http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/hs149.ash2/40797_579520938384_15305732_33562554_1256602_n.jpg

Here is Walsh long body arms (same ones I posted on the first page, for a STOCK chassis).
http://www.walshracecraft.com/images/th_trx250r-aarm-longbody-cr.jpg

Now, look at all three generations of arms made for Walsh chassis (all posted here) The shock mount location is significantly above the imaginary line you just drew.

I understand that how far out on the arm the shock mount is located also affects the shock length, but this way you can find out real quick whether an arm is LT or ST.

On a stock style chassis, most LT arms use roughly a 19" shock, and most ST arms use roughly a 16.5" shock. Now, since the upper shock location is different on Walsh chassis, you can add 2-2.5" to these numbers to get a rough estimate on shock length.

Hope this helps.

[Yfz245]

Ok thanks for the help I'll bolt the a arms and all up and see what the length is close to and go from there. When I bought the a arms I thought the upper shock mounts were the same on a Walsh and laeger except that the Walsh was adjustable. I guess you something new everyday lol thanks for the help

[SilverLake250R]

Originally posted by Yfz245
Ok thanks for the help I'll bolt the a arms and all up and see what the length is close to and go from there. When I bought the a arms I thought the upper shock mounts were the same on a Walsh and laeger except that the Walsh was adjustable. I guess you something new everyday lol thanks for the help

Let us know what you find out, I don't have a Laeger, so I don't know for sure, but if you look at Troybilt's bike, he is using ~19" shocks and his arms are clearly LT, based on the shock mount location.
http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i260/robltc/Project%20Elsinore/DSCN1233.jpg

[bajax]

so can i put other brand of a-arm or not on this frame????
mike walsh reply to my e-mail and he saytha 450r a-arm are not what is need for this frame .... so is it that I need any 250r a-arm...or is it I need walsh 250r a-arm?

[SilverLake250R]

Any a-arm for the 250R will work, but I would recommend using a ST arm, because you will have a hard time finding 21" shocks, unless you plan on getting some custom built.

[Yfz245]

Ok Ill get the a arms and all bolted up and get back to ya on that

And bajax is your frame a narrow frame or is it a wide nose frame?

[josborn]

My Walsh frame had 3/8' arm bolts like old Laeger Protrax. I don't know if they ever with 10mm stuff or not. You may have to alter the bushings in the other a-arms (if 10 mm) to put them on the Walsh frame. Something to check.

[hontrx265r]

I dont know if this is getting more confusing or not... The arms pictured above in the small picture (red walsh) are the long body arms meant to use for long travel on a standard geometry frame, using 18.5 to 19" shock depending on desired ride height (quoted straight from walsh) You can see the shock tabs appear smaller then the other walsh arms. Walsh frames have a higher adj shock mount. So the arms you see on the page previous (on the walsh frames) appear to look like the long bodies but the shock location is higher and the tabs are larger. (This a arm will use the same 18.5 to 19" shock if used on a walsh frame only!) However if its used on a stock frame it will use a ST shock. The Flattie arm is a later design and uses the LT shock on a walsh frame but again a ST shock on a stock geometry frame.... Now to skip all the crazy stuff. You can use any of the above mentioned the shock length will change with each one. If you used a long body walsh or any other mfg's LT arm you'll need a 21" shock. If you use either of the other walsh arms or any other mfg. ST arms on your frame you'll need a 18.5-19" Hope this helps...

[josborn]

One major thing to consider here is not only the length, but also at what point in the travel do these shocks bottom. In other words, your frame might hit the ground before shock bottoming. I only mention this because we are getting into adjustable upper mounts vs fixed. You really need to have the shocks on the chassis without springs, and let it drop till it bottoms and see what clearance you have. You should be able to have a 2x4 between the frame and the ground. If you put the board in there, and you still have shaft travel = ruh roh raggy. I'm sure this been done before, and its probably fine running other arms and certain length shocks, but you know what you do when you assume?

[gtilley45]

Originally posted by josborn
One major thing to consider here is not only the length, but also at what point in the travel do these shocks bottom. In other words, your frame might hit the ground before shock bottoming. I only mention this because we are getting into adjustable upper mounts vs fixed. You really need to have the shocks on the chassis without springs, and let it drop till it bottoms and see what clearance you have. You should be able to have a 2x4 between the frame and the ground. If you put the board in there, and you still have shaft travel = ruh roh raggy. I'm sure this been done before, and its probably fine running other arms and certain length shocks, but you know what you do when you assume?

Good point. This is exactly why I was told that you didn't need to use only the adjustable upper mount on a Walsh to adjust the ride height. Because the frame will bottom out way before the shock does. I was told it's ok to fine tune with by adjusting the upper mount, but you should have the shock pretty close.

[bajax]

I have a wide frame it's not the mx , mine is like silverlake250r ....
mike walsh answer to my e-amil and he said that they require walsh flattie a-arm on their frame. so does it want to say that I can't put other a-arm like laeger or houser a-arm same if it's for 250r ? I just don't have 2000$ to put on a-arms for the moment .
Does the long body a-arm are for the narrow frame and the flattie for the wide frame or the only difference is flattie a stantard travel and long body are long travel?

[gtilley45]

I was told that the only difference in the flatties and longbody style a arms is that they look different and the flatties have more ground clearance.

[josborn]

You can have both long bodys and flatties for narrow or wide frames. If your buying a set you have to know what frame they are for, otherwise you could wind up too wide or narrower than expected. Like mentioned above long bodies and flatties are similar, one has a slight bend, the other has mor of a straight-line look.

[jrspawn]

Heres a pic i took to show the difference. Flatty vs gullwing. Same shocks/adjustment, just different ground clearance. Tires were flat on one side so dont go by the levelness of the arms.

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i309/jrspawn/IMAG0586.jpg

[SilverLake250R]

Originally posted by bajax
I have a wide frame it's not the mx , mine is like silverlake250r ....


Mine is a narrow front MX frame....

[Yfz245]

Bajax depending on what measurements I come up with this weekend I might have a set of Walsh a arms for sale. They look like silver lakes but all chrome, the guy I bought them from said they +4 but I'm not sure unless somebody knows what the length is on +4 I'll have to call Walsh and find out