Yet another Walsh CRF Build!

[josborn]

I just got the frame, swingarm, upper a-arms, and subframe from the PC shop. Settled on silver.

http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll283/josborn99/100_2105.jpg

http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll283/josborn99/100_2104.jpg

http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll283/josborn99/100_2103.jpg

[fandl450r]

Gorgeous!

[CADWELL]

Very nice man, I love silver.

Keep us posted!

[laeger2fiddyr]

Awesome!! What are you running for shocks, what year motor & plastic??

[josborn]

I got Axis air shocks, an 03' motor, and white maier plastic (2 fender front).

I got the Subframe on and a few odds and ends.

I went with a smoke gray on alot of the parts: Stem, Nerfs, Beadlock rings, Bumper, Grab Bar, etc. The swinger and upper A-arms are silver. Lower a-arms are chrome. Should look clean.

http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll283/josborn99/100_2126.jpg

http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll283/josborn99/100_2125.jpg

http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll283/josborn99/100_2124.jpg

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http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll283/josborn99/100_2127.jpg

[josborn]

My swingarm is way too wide where the motor slides in at the pivot point. In other words, there are major gaps between the motor and the inside of the swingarm pivot tubes. Are there supposed to be spacers in there? Beyond the ones for the dust caps?

[wild250rman]

I like the silver has the look of an lrd aluminum frame. will look real clean when done. does it have clear over the silver it has a real nice gloss to it and looks like it will be easy to keep clean!

[laeger2fiddyr]

Got any pics? I know when I built an 05 LSR Crf LSR sent a spacer you had to install in the cases where your pivot bolt goes thru. There should be collars you git with the pivot bearing kit. I had to cut mine to fit!


Originally posted by josborn
My swingarm is way too wide where the motor slides in at the pivot point. In other words, there are major gaps between the motor and the inside of the swingarm pivot tubes. Are there supposed to be spacers in there? Beyond the ones for the dust caps?

[josborn]

I can post pics when i get home, I'm nowhere near the quad right now. Even with the collars on there, the gap is like 4.5". The motor is only 3.3". I was just wondering, for those who have built a Walsh CRF, if Walsh usually gives you spacers? Its either that or I have the wrong swingarm. It wouldn't be a problem to turn up a couple aluminum spacers, but I'm more interested in what should and shouldn't be at this point.

[hontrx265r]

Could you do me a favor and measure the width of your upper subfame mounting tab and tell me if its 3/16" ?

[3leggeddog]

Hey Jeremy, I am pretty sure that there are 2 spacers that went between the motor and the singer.mine actually were machined so they popped into the motor side and stayed put while you slide the swinger in.

I will look for a pic to send to you.

[3leggeddog]

send me your email and i will send you this picture. looks like it was only on the kicker side that had a spacer.

brandonr@gerlinggroup.com

[josborn]

The subframe mount on the frame is 3/16" bare, with pc I had .195" which makes sense, about .005" for pc per side.

I got the front end on loose today. Opted to go with 05' 450r spindles and hubs. Just had to get different kingpins from Walsh. New tie rod ends complete, as well as new inner rod ends on the arms.

http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll283/josborn99/100_2130.jpg

http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll283/josborn99/100_2128.jpg

I sat the motor in the frame and ran into an issue. Motor too wide on bottom!

http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll283/josborn99/100_2134.jpg

http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll283/josborn99/100_2133.jpg

http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll283/josborn99/100_2132.jpg

Can anyone confirm whether you can take an 05' bottom, switch the right case half and bolt it up in an 03' chasis?

I know the later year CRF are 1/2" wider, I'm hoping you can switch the right case half.

[C41Xracer]

thats a good question, i was going to ask you if you tried to put the motor in yet. the 02-03 crf is smaller then the later years, my guess would be go to service honda and pull up the side case part #'s and see if they match or not

[protrax]

All you need to do is get a die grinder with a few metel cutting bits and cut out alittle bit of the aluminum motor mount on the engine case , there is plenty of meat . If I remember correctly off the top of my head i want to say 3/4" you may have to cut back . you can fine tune with a dremel
pretty easy fix

[josborn]

I'm liking that idea the best. I have been working on the radiator this morning trying to get the nerve up to cut the mount off, sand it down and re-weld. But I just cant do it, the frame is so perfect. I will either machine the case down, or buy the right case half. Cutting it down sound the best right now.

http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll283/josborn99/100_2141.jpg

http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll283/josborn99/100_2140.jpg

http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll283/josborn99/100_2139.jpg

I love the radiator contrast, thats a black inner grille piece btw.

[Lasher]

The Walsh CRF chassis has two different front motor mounts. pre-05 and 06+ years. When I ordered my son's chassis, I had Nate hold off on sending the motor mounts until we brought the motor.

The rear has two spacers that go on the swingarm bolt. Those came with the chassis. The old site used to have a pic but I could not find it on the new one.

If you want, I can take a pic later on. We don't have the motor in the chassis yet, but the swingarm is bolted in with spacers.

[diangelo#67]

yup wont work. you should sell it to me have an 03 motor


















j/k this thing is going to be great lookng forward to future posts

[josborn]

Thanks for the heads up on the front motor mounts Lasher. I got to call Nate about the swingarm spacers, I'll mention the front motor mounts too. I think I'm just gonna cut down the mount on the right crankcase so it slides in. If I'd known that my "Shane Hitt motor", inside joke, wasn't an 03' engine, I probably would have passed on this deal.

Maybe next winter, I may consider moving the mount, I'd really like to find an new 08' motor next fall.

[3leggeddog]

this thing is sexy!

[josborn]

Got some rear end parts on, dont mind the dirty sprocket, i'll have a new on there soon.

Opted for the 450r rear caliper update, it looks trick. Wanted Galfer wave rotors, but my sponsor didnt have them in stock, maybe next month.

http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll283/josborn99/100_2176.jpg

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[laeger2fiddyr]

Did you run a trx450 carrier and axle too?

[josborn]

Thats a 250r axle and carrier, with the 450r fade, rotor, caliper, & caliper mount. The 450r carrier is an 1/8' narrower than the 250r, so unless you machine the swingarm, the 450r carrier will not work. The only real mod is you have to run a washer between the caliper and the caliper mount plate. I got the info from the the 250r forum (rich250rracer I believe). And I just checked my brake line (250r), and it will work.

FYI, i'm really impressed with that antifade so far, its an ACJ from Aaron Reisig (ebay) for $135. It's really well made, comes with antiseize already in the threads, and it is a double bolt design for better clamping power. Also has a nice steel spacer to ride against the bearing/seal surfaces. Much more impressed with it than the std 250r fades of the past.

[Lasher]

Looking good.

Interesting to see pics and compare them to the Walsh Chassis my son has. When I ordered the chassis I had to choose between one that uses 250R parts or the 450R parts. I choose the 450R parts because it was in stock and could get it time for Christmas last year.

I am going to check out the anti-fade you mentioned. My 250R ones will not work on the 450R axle I had to get.

[josborn]

Quadfmx - Your pm box is full, here is what I know about the CRF engines :

02 most grunt, least reliable. I heard as they progressed through the years they get smoother power and more reliable. Be careful, 04' to 08' has different bottom and front motor mounts than 02-03. If you have an 02-03 frame from Walsh, it will need the bottom right motor mount moved ~1/2" to the right to accept the 04-08 engine (engine is wider at bottom mount), as well as different front motor mounts (wider here too). The head stay and pivot mounts are the same.

The newer style front mounts are $100 from Walsh. So if you can weld and fab, you could update your frame for a little over $100. Assuming you can cut the lower mount out without screwing it up. Nate said he would sell the lower mount tab too.

To be perfectly honest had i known the Walsh had such a wide pivot point at the swinagrm, and i would be needing to buy the spacers, cut and move 1 of 2 lower engine mounts and buy front motor mounts, i would have put my trusty yz engine in the chassis, and I'm not sure i still wont.

[jrspawn]

Originally posted by josborn
i would have put my trusty yz engine in the chassis, and I'm not sure i still wont.

And that my friend would be your best choice!;) I have said it for a long time, that yz450f engine is the best bomb proof MX engine known to man! With the CRF and production quads coming out earlier than it, they stole the spotlight. Since then, everyone has always jumped on the CRF bandwagon...

[josborn]

Well my trusty engine belongs to Dan hung now! but I'm sure I could find another.

[josborn]

Another interesting tidbit.....It appears as though the stock headstay plates are not all the same either. I bought new 07 plates and hardware off of a partem' out place on ebay. Guess what? Doesn't fit the Walsh frame (03' frame). Suprise suprise. Apparently 02-04 plates are the same (I guess I need these), 05-08 look the same, I can't confirm that, i'm not buying all of those different years to find out either. So you gotta buy the head stay for the engine that your frame was originally fab'd for. Either 02-04, or 05+.

[hontrx265r]

I have a really nice 2006 yzf450 I know its not Justins favorite(03). But I absolutely loved this motor in my lsr bike. Its sitting on my bench just got new crank, and cp. Just a freshen up same as I ran with it before. head is totally stock but also has all hinson bottom. I was planning on putting it back together but I'm pretty sure the frame is about to be gone so let me know if your interested.

[josborn]

I got a few more things done today:

http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll283/josborn99/100_2183.jpg

http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll283/josborn99/100_2182.jpg

http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll283/josborn99/100_2187.jpg

http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll283/josborn99/100_2188.jpg

[Sandsjbyz22]

Looking good!

[laeger2fiddyr]

Looks great but is it just me or do you have your grab bar on the wrong way? Its turning out awesome!!

[josborn]

Wow! Effin good eye on that one. I was talking to someone while putting that on. I probably wouldn't have caught that until I bolted a number plate to it, lol.

[quadcrazy02]

Originally posted by jrspawn
And that my friend would be your best choice!;) I have said it for a long time, that yz450f engine is the best bomb proof MX engine known to man! With the CRF and production quads coming out earlier than it, they stole the spotlight. Since then, everyone has always jumped on the CRF bandwagon...

I call horse chit but whatever you think there buddy!!

[quadcrazy02]

That quad is turning out nice, good job!

[jrspawn]

Originally posted by quadcrazy02
I call horse chit but whatever you think there buddy!!


I take it you've owned an 03 yz450 hybrid also? I guess everyone has their own opinions.

[C41Xracer]

Originally posted by quadcrazy02
I call horse chit but whatever you think there buddy!!

Dont kill a good build thread

[josborn]

Oh stayed tuned! This build just got way more interesting. I split the cases last night, because I pulled the trigger on just swapping the right case half so my engine will fit the frame. I'll have some pics for you later. Be ready, for those who have not seen a like new Shane Hitt motor, get ready. Its pretty awesome.

[jrspawn]

So the Hitt motor is gonna be a hit?

[josborn]

Just to get people up to speed, I purchased a like new Hitt motor just redone. Full Hinson bottom. Ready to drop in, and to give you an idea it was well over the $2,000 mark. So I was expecting a decent motor, didn't really care about the Hitt part, but now its like a running joke.

Apparently the key to be a super fast Pro rider is only replacing certain parts during your rebuild, keeping all of the parts fresh is way overrated.

The clutch basket has these super fast grooves in it. I would have taken a pic of the plates but they were stinkin up my garage.
http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll283/josborn99/100_2102-1.jpg

I found a super chip missing from the cylinder, Hittman trade secret there.
http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll283/josborn99/100_2192.jpg

That inner band has hanging out of seal when I removed the crankshaft. No joke.
http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll283/josborn99/100_2203.jpg

Sparks is getting so good at these engines, he doesn't even port them.
http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll283/josborn99/100_2200.jpg

I brought my concerns up to the seller, and to his credit he did send me $400 (stuck me with the paypal fees though) to buy Hinson parts (Basket-Inner Hub-Pressure Plate), because he claimed it had a Hinson bottom. I still had to pop for the plates and springs. But after I split it last night and brought up the rest, he drew the line at a cylinder, cam chain, and seal kit. No gaskets either. Thats all i wanted. My list is actually longer, but I thought that it would be fair for him to buy those parts, they are black and white eff'd up, but nope. "I am done" was his response.

I have yet to pull the valves out, but i'm not holding my breath there either. That and every single bolt that holds a bearing retainer in place was finger tight, no locktite in sight. That would have been lovely.

Other awesome experiences with this seller, Check clears for the whole chassis and motor on Dec 23rd, I get the first box of stuff around the middle of Jan. I choose to buy the radiator, seat pan, and exhaust from him about a week later or so. I still have no seat pan as of now. My "mint condition" Walsh radiator needed a tab welded back on. The blue powder coat (like new chassis, must see!) chipped in areas, and flaky off the stem, and no swingarm hardware (motor spacers - bearings - sleeves), but don't worry "you'll be getting ALL of it". Oh and the icing on the cake, my 03' hitt motor doesn't fit my 03' frame, because the right case have was made after Shane Hitt switched to production quads, lol. His response, "easy fix, just move the right motor mount". This would have great to do before i repowdercoated the damn thing!

I know this seems like I'm whining, but I can only take so much. Lesson: No matter how many good things people say about someone, that person is still capable of royaly screwing you over.

Now, I'm done. Sorry for the crappy pics. Talk amongst yourselves.

[diangelo#67]

you know I was gonna say something but thought maybe people change. sorry I couldn't save your time and money. shane is a great guy and when he sold that bike I can assure you that motor was alllllloooottt different.

[C41Xracer]

Ouch that's sucks. I would be furious, was the engine an ebay purchase by chance?

[josborn]

Nope. This seller is fairly highly regarded from around this forum. Thats high I spent the money. I heard nothing but good things, even from Walsh.

And this has nothing to do with Shane. I'm being sarcastic in the post. Like I said i didn't buy it because of the Hitt thing. I bought it becuase I thought it was ready to go, like new. That was the point.

[C41Xracer]

Damn that makes it worse, is there any "sparks" engraving on the head at all,

[josborn]

Nope. The head looks stock, casting flaws and all inside. Which really isn't a big deal, I gotta TC head i can use. Its more the idea of the now i'm questioning everything in the motor. If I wanted to go through a motor, i'd a bought a $1000 special on ebay.

[motochamp250]

that sucks dude... man i miss integrity and honesty etc.. hard to find nowadays...

[protrax]

Wow that sucks , did he tell you it was a Sparks engine? looks like a stocker ..... did it atleast have a cam ?

[josborn]

No he didn't say "Sparks" I guess I might have taken the liberty of assuming that part. I can't remember Shane running anything beside Sparks engine's anyway. I mean why claim that its a Shane Hitt motor? Did Shane eve run a hybrid? I thought he was 250r right to yfz? I can't tell if the cam is stock, does Sparks mark his anywhere?

[jrspawn]

That sucks man!

And im pretty sure Hitt did have a walsh crf at one time. If im not mistaken there was a guy out of florida with a handfull of rare hybrids that he was selling at one time. He had Hitts old crf, i wouldnt be too surprised if this stuff isnt the same parts.

[josborn]

You know, I can loosely remember him having one in maybe 03', but it seemed like him and jones were like the last of the mohicans on 250rs too. Oh well whats done is done. Now its time to make it like it should be. Parts order going in tomorrow, if I get time.

[gtilley45]

I'm pretty sure Shane Hitt was on a Walsh CRF the last year the pros were allowed to run aftermarket frames.

josborn- I feel your pain man. I got a raw deal like that when I traded for the LSR CRF I had a couple years ago.

[josborn]

The missing link:

http://www.exriders.com/vbb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=402701

I'm pretty sure thats my motor, and possibly the chassis.

[CADWELL]

WOW I can't believe what shape that motor is in man. Good thing you decided to tear into it.

I'm still looking foward to seeing it come together.

[3leggeddog]

man jeremy i feel bad for ya bud.i would of sold ya my walsh, you know my motor was fresh ;-)

this is why i went and bought an 09 TRX over the weekend and ripped the motor out.i am tired of dealing with used race bikes.
it gets irritating.

well good luck bro, the bike looks sweet and knowing you, it will be top notch when your done, sorry for ranting on your thread doggy

[josborn]

No its cool, its theraputic for all of us. Good move on the 09'! I'm thinking of getting an 450r in the spring as daily rider. Try to keep the Walsh nice. The 06+ tranny has me worried. Might try and find an 05', but that might be alot of headaches there too!

[3leggeddog]

you can pick up a 450r pretty cheap to just play around on. But if you really look hard, you can buy brand new red 08 er's for $3999.99. thats pretty good deal really. your gonna pay what, 2500 to 3 k for a decent used bike, might aswell buy new ya know.

back to hybrids:

i think i might take that 09 or the 07 and cut the front off and make a trike in the next year or so.i dunno yet, thats my roots, hince 3 leggeddog

how sick would it be to clap the 100 footer at ur place on a trike?ahh man, i can see the video's flyin around now lol.

for those that dont know, this guy has the sickest track in ohio, come out and check it out.

maybe all you hybrid guys can unite for a "old school hybrid invatational" at the cliff?

[C41Xracer]

I'm from ohio so I'm down

[hontrx265r]

Have you ridden those pro air shocks? I'm really thinking about making the switch to those over the coils but I'm still not sure. i've got mixed reviews. I would have to sell my current axis with x link which are 100% rebuilt, springs, valving, service... I haven't used them but I've been on axis forever. Opinions anyone?

[josborn]

Not yet, I have had Fox Evols for the last couple years, and I really like those, but they were too long for the Walsh. Plus I wanted all three to match. I have heard complaints the shocks needing serviced more often than Fox, but thats about it.

[hontrx265r]

Did you buy those new or used? I'm not sure if I would go with the x link again. I think its good but it makes it more of a pain to service.

[josborn]

Oh no those are used from David Trimble. They went to Axis, and got some new parts, and are in excellent shape.

[gtilley45]

Originally posted by josborn
Not yet, I have had Fox Evols for the last couple years, and I really like those, but they were too long for the Walsh. Plus I wanted all three to match. I have heard complaints the shocks needing serviced more often than Fox, but thats about it.

I had Fox Evol fronts and a Fox Podium rear on my YFZ and LOVED them. I'm hoping I can get the same set up for my hybrid. I've also heard the same thing about Axis air shocks needing to be serviced more than the Fox do, and I THINK I heard they are a little harder to get dialed in but I'm not 100% sure about that.

[josborn]

Unless you customize the Fox yourself, You probably wont have luck getting Fox to make you a set for the hybrid. They dont currently make a Cr500 link rear shock. You can usually take a set of 450r fronts, get the right length and make them work on your hybrid, but the rear is catcher. I had an Axis rear and Fox front on my PRP.

[motochamp250]

is definitely gonna be a sweet bike man. can't wait to see it! whats the orange bike in all the briarcliff vids?

hunter

[josborn]

That was the PRP yz 450f that I parted, Well mostly parted. It would scoot. Can't wait to test the Walsh at my playground. I might build a new six pack for the occasion.

I ordered all of my engine parts, fingers crosssed, i might have something to put together this weekend, I doubt it.

[motochamp250]

hate to keep getting of topic... but that track looks AWESOME. wish we had something like that around here... nice riding too! good luck on the motor and the build i will definitely be following the thread

hunter

[gtilley45]

Originally posted by josborn
Unless you customize the Fox yourself, You probably wont have luck getting Fox to make you a set for the hybrid. They dont currently make a Cr500 link rear shock. You can usually take a set of 450r fronts, get the right length and make them work on your hybrid, but the rear is catcher. I had an Axis rear and Fox front on my PRP.

Yeah, I knew they weren't making 250R shocks. I've got a good friend that is a big Fox dealer and was the shock tech for Team Epic Can Am (who ran Fox) a couple years ago until that team folded, and he's been working for Pat Brown since then. He's as good with Fox shocks as anybody. I spend 90% of the time at the few nationals I go to in his trailer, and there are a LOT of people come by to get him to help set theirs up...big name people too. He modified a set of Fox to work on his Laeger CRF. I talked to him the other day and he said he could definately make me some fronts, and talked like he could do a rear as well. But I didn't get too in depth with the conversation because I don't have the money to buy shocks right now.

[hontrx265r]

Thats one reason I have stuck with axis shocks... They do what it takes!! Axis has never not answered any question even down to exactly what shim is in the stack they recommend. They will build any shock for any machine... that stands out. I've wanted to try an air shock either way fox or axis... But it will probably be axis

[gtilley45]

I see what you're saying, and Axis is my second choice. But my Fox were way better than the Axis I had. I think one reason Fox doesn't offer shocks for hybrids is that they weren't making ATV shocks back when everyone was running hybrids and 250Rs so they don't have all the measurements for motion ratios, leverage ratios, travel measurements and all that info that they have for all the production bikes. My friend told me he could definately make a set of fronts work, and he seemed to think that he could set up a Fox rear too. Fox supposedly has the specs for a Laeger CRF with a CR500 linkage and my friend said "I'll have to look and see how close the Laeger 500 link is to the Walsh 500 link". The guy is the best I've seen with shocks, and he's been doing it forever....so if he tells me he can make me some Fox shocks for my Walsh, I'll have Fox shocks on my Walsh. LOL

[CADWELL]

I went on Ebay for shizz and giigles and typed in "trx250r" fox shocks and they came up from ATV Galaxy.

Grant I just watched "The Factory" and noticed Norris's name in the credits.....the first thing I thought of was..."The one who could make a correct pair of Evols for a 250r hybrid" haha...

[gtilley45]

Originally posted by CADWELL
I went on Ebay for shizz and giigles and typed in "trx250r" fox shocks and they came up from ATV Galaxy.

Grant I just watched "The Factory" and noticed Norris's name in the credits.....the first thing I thought of was..."The one who could make a correct pair of Evols for a 250r hybrid" haha...

If you're talking about the Laeger/Fox front end packages on eBay, I saw that. I asked Norris about that and he said in his opinion, those were probably shocks for another bike that had been modified. He said that as long as whoever did then knew what they were doing, they should be ok. But to his knowledge Fox still isn't making shocks for 250R geometry.

Yeah he's in "The Factory". You can actually see him in the movie a few times too.

[josborn]

I had trx 450r Evol fronts on my PRP, and all I did was dial them in with air, and clickers. they worked night and day better than my beloved Axis triple rates. The rear is the problem. First I think you need the right length rear; 18.5", or at least a shock capable of that length, then you need the cr500 style bottom clevis. Those are the big hurdles, after that its the correct springs and valving. Now the latter is important, but the first part is the reason you don't a Fox rear shock on a Cr link hybrid. If Norris gets a Fox rear converted for you i might be interested in a set.

[gtilley45]

I see what you're saying and that's a good point. The season is about to start back so I'll see Norris if I get to go to any nationals....I'll pick his brain about it some more the next time I talk to him. I'll let him know that you might be interested as well.

[gtilley45]

I just read your post again. The part about the correct valving and springs.....I KNOW he can do that. I've stood there and watched him re-spring and re-valve a lot of Fox rears. The last time I hung out at a national with him, he got so busy that he had me just removing and re-installing people's shocks for them as he was servicing and rebuilding them. LOL

[hontrx265r]

Ok start a norris quinn fox shock post because we're cluttering up josborns sick build.

[gtilley45]

Originally posted by hontrx265r
Ok start a norris quinn fox shock post because we're cluttering up josborns sick build.

Very true. Sorry about that.

[josborn]

I was just as involved in the tangent, no worries there.

Anyway, small update as I await engine parts. I did get my Fourwerx hood yesterday. Which i gotta say is top notch, money well spent. Thank you Jason.

http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll283/josborn99/100_2208.jpg

http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll283/josborn99/100_2207.jpg

http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll283/josborn99/100_2206.jpg

I think we have a real kick *** graphic kit design. I will post a pic as it is complete.

Got the flexx bars on there. They have the rebound elastometers on there, which i tested last year, but I'm not crazy about them,but I will get them another chance.

http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll283/josborn99/100_2211.jpg

http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll283/josborn99/100_2209.jpg

I even cleaned out the parts washer to put in fresh solvent for this motor....never did that for the yamaha.

http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll283/josborn99/100_2212.jpg

I'd also like to update everyone on my motor situation. I have reached agreement with the seller to make it right. The truth finally came out that he didn't know about all of the bad parts in it. The guy he bought it from is in fact the real jerk here. And I believe him, it just didn't add up in my mind. All of the feedback, that I had gotten prior isnt that far off, the seller is a stand up guy. A very busy guy, but he wanted to make it right, and that deserves gold stars in my book. And I'd like to mention that i haven't been the easiest to deal with, because I wanna go go go, and he seems to be very involved with coaching his sons hockey team, so i have been somewhat of a PITA too. But anyway, moving forward, the past is the past.

Hopefully I will be building an engine next week. I will be updating you al as I go.

[C41Xracer]

Graphics? I'm interested to see these. Would they match the orange plastic I got from ya.

[CADWELL]

That's a nice looking hood. What kind of plastics are you gonna run ?


A friend of mine that just bought a Walsh/YZ (gtilley45) and I were wondering how good of a fit the Fourwerx mold would go over on Fullbores. I've got a QuadTech on mine that is a bit worn out on my Hybrid and I was looking at one of these Fourwerx.

I'm glad you were able to work something out with your motor. The fact that the the guy you bought it from stepped up and is willing to work with you to make it right is awesome.

That number looks VERY familiar to me also for some reason :D ...

[josborn]

C41x- those graphics from the orange plastic came from go4it. Woody's doing these, we're having AOT print them. It has this awesome background of alternating walsh and BC logos that are ghosted in gray. Then one big blue BC logo, and an old school walsh on the front. It looks gooooood.

Cadwell - White Maier 250r two piece front.

Haha thats my racing parts washer, I run 106 for now.

[Flyin_250r]

Fourwerx makes hoods for fullbore fenders. I have one on me hybrid now. Actually bought it off C41Xracer. Fits perfect and great quality. The weave actually matches up with my quad tech tank cover nicely as well.

I would love a white scooped hood for fullbore fenders. I wonder if Fourwerx has any

[motochamp250]

i cant wait to see the graphics... they sound sweet! id like to know about a white hood too... would look sweet on some white plastic..

Hunter

[gtilley45]

Originally posted by josborn
Woody's doing these, we're having AOT print them. It has this awesome background of alternating walsh and BC logos that are ghosted in gray. Then one big blue BC logo, and an old school walsh on the front. It looks gooooood.

Can you give more details about this? When I get my new plastic, I'm gonna be looking for some graphics and I like the sound of this. I was hoping to find somewhere that could design something nice and put some Walsh logos in there along with the logos of some of the guys that I get my parts from.

Also, I'm glad to hear that about the FourWerx hood. Unless I have a big change of heart, I'll be running Full Bore plastic and I was really wanting one of those hoods. I talked to a guy I race with the other night and he said one of his friends just got one for Full Bore and it didn't fit worth a crap.

[josborn]

The 250r hoods are custom from Fourwerx, you have to specify what plastic (maier-fullbore-stock). It takes 6-8 weeks to get processed right now, but worth the wait I think. I haven't check the fit yet.

The graphics were done by a guy in our work office. He has the templates, does design, then we send it to AOT for printing. The printing is $100. I don't know what he would charge to design you a set. I had SSI setup to do it for $150ish, but I didnt hear from him for about three weeks, so I decided to go a different route. These will be high quality 18-20 mil thick stuff. Woody has had the guy print before. We just wanted our own design. I'll post the proof when I get a chance.

[gtilley45]

Originally posted by josborn
The graphics were done by a guy in our work office. He has the templates, does design, then we send it to AOT for printing. The printing is $100. I don't know what he would charge to design you a set. I had SSI setup to do it for $150ish, but I didnt hear from him for about three weeks, so I decided to go a different route. These will be high quality 18-20 mil thick stuff. Woody has had the guy print before. We just wanted our own design. I'll post the proof when I get a chance.

OK cool. I look forward to seeing yours and I might have to check with your guy and see if he wants to do another set. I also know another guy with a Walsh that might be interested in a set as well.

[hontrx265r]

I love the white hood. I wanted one that was white and jay wasn't making them. I'll have to hit him up.. now its going to be a hard choice scoop or naca duct...hmmm. I have to say that the grill doesn't look as detailed as it used too... might have to get on the mill and make a custom one.

[josborn]

The hood fits "like a glove". No complaints here.

http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll283/josborn99/100_2215.jpg

Now does anyone else have a nose mount, or "bullet", that moves up and down way too much? I dont think I can take that while riding. Plus it doesn't really line up with the fron mounts on the maier. Nate said they might have to make one to fit these fenders. I just dont know if I want all that play up there. I mean a couple bolts is better than having a front clip flappin in the wind.

[hontrx265r]

nope have to say that looks awesome!! Are you running the fenders full? Its funny I have both new, race, and full fronts. But I actually want to 3/4 cut the full ones like jasmine plante's crf from back when.. Thats the whole reason I bought them.

[hontrx265r]

better view.

[josborn]

Nah, I'll trim them, but not down to nothing. I'll leave something there, but no full fenders for me.

Something like this:

http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll283/josborn99/YZhybrid.jpg

[gtilley45]

Are you talking about the piece that mounts the front plastic on a Walsh? If you are, mine doesn't move around. If you put the rear of the front plastic on the little pegs and pull the velcro tight over the tank does it still do it?

Also, do you know if that part is the same for Maier/OEM fenders as it is for Full Bore? I wonder if I can just re-use the one I have when I get Full Bore plastic or if I'll have to buy a new one.

[gtilley45]

Originally posted by hontrx265r
I love the white hood. I wanted one that was white and jay wasn't making them. I'll have to hit him up.. now its going to be a hard choice scoop or naca duct...hmmm. I have to say that the grill doesn't look as detailed as it used too... might have to get on the mill and make a custom one.

FourWerx makes the naca duct style hood too?

[josborn]

I do have it on the rubbers at the rear (on the frame), not strapped, no tank on yet, but it would still lift up.

With my front aluminum mount piece (yea the one that mounts to the plastic) in the frame, it wiggles up and down like 2-3 inches. Its not very snug, maybe its worn out?

I have no idea which set of fenders my mount is made for, my guess would be OEM, it fits the first set of holes, but the two all the way at the front of the fenders doesn't line up. I could drill two other holes in the fenders and get it to mount, but wiggle has got me spooked.

Nate wasn't sure what was what, he just thought that I might need a different made, and he is right, if you wanted it to fit the maier fenders perfectly, you would need another one. I have no idea about fullbore vs oem. I'd call Walsh.

[gtilley45]

I see what you're saying. Mine doesn't wiggle at all, especially not 2-3 inches. That's a lot! :eek:

This is my first Walsh, so I'm sure I'll be calling them more than once. LOL It'll be a while before I get ready to order plastic, but when I do I'll definately give them a call about that. The one I have now is on OEM style fenders (probably maier), you want me to go get a couple pics of it so you can compare it to yours?

[josborn]

http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll283/josborn99/100_2227.jpg

http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll283/josborn99/100_2226.jpg

[hontrx265r]

naca duct.. Its coming...I think march he said.

[gtilley45]

Originally posted by hontrx265r
naca duct.. Its coming...I think march he said.

Hell yeah!! :cool:

josborn- here's the mount on mine.

http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd132/gtilley45/photo2.jpg

[josborn]

Oh yeah, mines way worn out. The part that goes in the frame on mine looks all worn down. Are those stock tabs on the very nose of the fenders/hood? Because mine looks the same like it doesn't hit the holes, but you got like some dadaptor plates or something, just wonder if those are homemade or stock.

[Lasher]

My Walsh 250r frame, the mounting bracket never fit right on the plastic. The holes in the plastic did not match with holes on the bracket.

When I ordered my kid Walsh CRF chassis, Nate asked me which plastic I was running. I told him Maier and the bracket had the name "Maier" written on it in marker. And it is different than the mount I have on my Walsh...his fit perfectly on the plastic.

I believe that there are different mounting brackets for the type of plastic you are running.

But both fit tight into the holes on the frame and no movement.

[motochamp250]

I've been wondering about the little quick detach bracket too as far as if it works with all plastic... If y'all find out or talk to Walsh post it up!

Hunter


Edit:didn't see your post lasher... Sounds good I reckon I will give Walsh a shout!

[gtilley45]

Originally posted by josborn
Oh yeah, mines way worn out. The part that goes in the frame on mine looks all worn down. Are those stock tabs on the very nose of the fenders/hood? Because mine looks the same like it doesn't hit the holes, but you got like some dadaptor plates or something, just wonder if those are homemade or stock.

I'm not sure if it's homemade or what, it was that way when I got this quad. I haven't had a 250R in 10 years and it's probably been 4 or 5 years since I'd had a hybrid before I got this one so I can't remember how the plastic was on either of those.

[josborn]

What kills the maier plastic is the fact that it doesn't have the two mid front fender mounts between the hood and the rear rubbers. If those were molded into the fender, it wouldn't be so bad. Thats the drawback of maier fenders. I think i'm gonna whip together a new mount, I dont trust that slide in piece. Two bolts is not that big of a deal. Might take 1 minute to pull the front off, I doubt I enter any pit stop challenges.

Plus the way the maier usually mounts, it will support fender more, since there is a lack of support due to the missing mid mounts.

[gtilley45]

Yeah, it shouldn't be that big of a deal. When I get around to ordering some Full Bore, I guess I'll call them and make sure which mount I need. I've got to get some of the little rubber grommets that holds the rear of the front fenders too. I need those, the one that the flip top closes into, and the ones that hold the airbox on mine are a little worn. So I gotta get a few new grommets. Did you have any trouble finding those?

[josborn]

I stocked up on grommets two years ago, but with all new rubbers on the Walsh build. I probably should get another decent order of them. I dont think theres a shortage of those yet.

FYI, if you replace the rubber in the top of your radiator, I dont think you'll find them off of a 250r. Walsh said they were stock R, but my stock R rubbers werent even close. I think they must have been real busy that day. I used 400ex oil tank rubbers with the steel inserts. Those fit like they were made for it. They probably were. Some days I think poor Nate gets run in some serious circles. I know I have wore him out!

[gtilley45]

That's good info there man, thanks! And that reminds me, I have no idea what kind of bushing it is that goes in the frame and the bottom of the 400EX oil tank sits in it...do you know? I know the CRF doesn't have an oil tank, but I thought I remembered you saying you had a YZ at one time and I didn't know if it was a Walsh or not. But when I finally get around to tearing mine down for powdercoat, I want to replace all that stuff while I'm at it so I don't have to worry about it later.

[josborn]

My Yz wasn't a Walsh, but it had a custom tank anyway, and it bolted to the frame. If you have a 400ex tank i probably uses the stock rubbers and steel inserts. Shoot me a pic when you get it apart, i know what they look like.

[gtilley45]

Oh OK. It's got like a big bushing on the bottom that goes in a hole in the frame and the tank sits in that. Then it has the bolts in the top that hold it to the frame.

[josborn]

I can't get my graphic proof to show up in this post, its a jpeg. Does anyone have any ideas?

[hontrx265r]

email it to me I'll figure it out. mgsytsma@gmail.com

[hontrx265r]

see if this works

[jrspawn]

Originally posted by hontrx265r
see if this works

Now those are so sweet graphics man!!!

[gtilley45]

Originally posted by jrspawn
Now those are so sweet graphics man!!!

Yes they are!!

[motochamp250]

+3 those will look AWESOME!

[josborn]

Thanks for helping me out Mike, I don't know why I couldn't get it to load. I tried a couple times, and just got the dreaded red X.

Yeah, i'm pretty happy with the design of the kit. I think we're shipping them to the printer this week. I just gotta get the templates made for the lower rear sponsor areas of the rear fender. I wanted to put those on there to protect the bottom of the rear fender. Probably just big enough to put three sponsor logos on there.

Also got a big box of Honda engine parts today. Should be building a motor soon. Just need to get the valve job done on the head. More updates to come.

[gtilley45]

Originally posted by josborn
I just gotta get the templates made for the lower rear sponsor areas of the rear fender. I wanted to put those on there to protect the bottom of the rear fender. Probably just big enough to put three sponsor logos on there.

That's a good idea. I'd like to do that too if I can get some graphics made. I ended up wishing I'd done that the last time I put new plastic on my YFZ because the bottom of the rear fenders gets pretty chewed up by riding boots.

[CADWELL]

Damn that's a really nice graphics kit!

[troybilt]

Nice graphics man!!! look sweet, simple and elegant..

[josborn]

I think we got some inspiration from a kit you posted in the 250r forum troy, thanks!

[exrider23]

what kind of plastic are you using (quad)?

[josborn]

Maier 250r

[troybilt]

Originally posted by josborn
I think we got some inspiration from a kit you posted in the 250r forum troy, thanks!

Awesome, glad I could help!

[josborn]

I was shy one bearing and couple seals from really putting together my bottom end of my engine this weekend, so i decided to work on getting the front end tightened up, front calipers, rotors, new hardware in the ball joints, master cylinder, brake lines, and I made mounts for the front clip.

I took the black elbow brackets from the maier hardware package drill one hole out to 10mm, and the other to 8mm. i then welded a 8mm nut behind the 8mm hole. I bolted those to the upper shock mount bolt. I then took the shiny adjustable front fender brackets and bent them in the vise until I got the shapes I wanted. It fits very well.

http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll283/josborn99/100_2250.jpg

http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll283/josborn99/100_2245.jpg

http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll283/josborn99/100_2246.jpg

http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll283/josborn99/100_2248.jpg

http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll283/josborn99/100_2247.jpg

http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll283/josborn99/100_2249.jpg

[gtilley45]

I like that rear master cylinder cover, I gotta get me one of those. :cool:

Your build is coming together pretty well. I can't wait to see it finished up.

[89trx250r]

yeah i have to agree its coming along nicely i personally like the full fender whites with the white hood:) Are you planning on running just the flex bars or flex bars + precision clamps cause i was always curious how that would work out...

[josborn]

Flexxbars only, thats just a Walsh bar clamp. I plan on trimming the fenders. Quad tech seat cover should be on this week. Went with blk/silver/blk.

[D Bergstrom]

Originally posted by 89trx250r
Are you planning on running just the flex bars or flex bars + precision clamps cause i was always curious how that would work out...

Just an FYI. You can't run the Precision clamps with Flexx bars. The clamps need to be installed over the end of the bars and slid down to the center. There is no way to install them onto the Flexx bars since you can't "open" them to get them around the clamping area.

This quad is bad a**, been keeping up with the the updates. Makes me want to call Walsh and order a complete chassis, wish I could afford it!

Doug

[89trx250r]

ahh thanks d bergstrom i was wondering why i had never seen it i figured hey double dampening would be better then just 1 or the other.

[josborn]

Grant - On your front end, how many threads are showing on the lower inner pivots (heims)? Are they all the way in, three threads showing? Or does anybody know what is the correct way to set the lower pivots. Also, are the big spacers, at the a-arm pivot bolt, in the front or bacl of the heim? Anyone have any info here?

Same thing on the adjustable upper shock mount. I just let the shocks down till the front end started to bind, then gave it a turn back the other way. Is here a correct way to set those too?

[hontrx265r]

I want to say it was three or four threads showing on my walsh. But the way I would do it is set them even at about three out and adj. caster off the upper arms. If its not giving you enough then use the lower to kick in a little extra, but I think you'll be fine. I would probably run around 4.5 degrees Caster, 1.5 camber, and 1/8-1/4 toe in. Maybe a little less caster if the track is tight.

On your shocks not sure how it will work because I have coils but normally you would remove the spring (remove the air) and let it full droop. Adj. the uppers so you can still slide a 2x4 under the frame when bottomed out. That way your not shoveling the ground on a g out.

[josborn]

Thanks Mike, I will give that a try.

I forgot to mention, a word of caution on the fourwerx master cylinder guard, you will need to make two aluminum spacers that go between the master cylinder and the carbon fiber. If i remember correctly they're about an inch long, I will measure when I get home. Otherwise the guard will hit the frame.

Also, my on my AC propegs, the right side peg hits on the brake pedal mount post. So I filed the mount down about an 1/8", and it clears now. Well maybe it doesn't clear, but I can bolt the pegs to the nerfs now. Someone might ask, why not just slide the nerf out? Because there are already holes in the frame, and I didn't want to see them. Thats just tacky. Just a heads up if anyone travels down this road.

[gtilley45]

Originally posted by josborn
Grant - On your front end, how many threads are showing on the lower inner pivots (heims)? Are they all the way in, three threads showing? Or does anybody know what is the correct way to set the lower pivots. Also, are the big spacers, at the a-arm pivot bolt, in the front or bacl of the heim? Anyone have any info here?

Same thing on the adjustable upper shock mount. I just let the shocks down till the front end started to bind, then gave it a turn back the other way. Is here a correct way to set those too?

I just went and looked at mine. On the top a arms, the front one is showing 2 threads and the back one is showing 2 1/2 or 3 threads. The bottom a arms have 3 threads showing front and rear. But I'm not sure how accurate that'd be. I'm guessing you're only using that as a starting point. I haven't measured any of the settings on mine either, so it could be WAY off for all I know. Also, the big spacers are BEHIND the heim joints on mine.

On my upper shock mount........from the top of the actual shock mount (the flat part on top of it) to the bottom of the hole that the threaded adjuster goes through (where there's a nut on top and bottom of it) is 1".

I hope you get this figured out and keep us updated.....this post could save me a lot of headache when I tear mine down and re-assemble it. :D

[josborn]

Well thats interesting on the spacers, Nate told me to run them in the front, but he didnt sound real sure about that. Can anyone (Justin?) tell us which is which. I would assume Grant has them in the +1 position, with the big spacers toward the rear, and mine is the 0+ position with the big spacers toward the front?

Also, my adjustable upper mounts are 1.5" (for now) to the nut in manner you described yours. I plan to take off the rear spring and deflate the fronts to set them up how mike described above.

[gtilley45]

I've been looking online, and I'm seeing them both ways. What exactly changes by moving them? I know that having them in the rear would make the a arms +1 forward, but I didn't think the +1 forward was that big of a deal on the 250R chassis.


Your shock towers are way lower than mine. Mine is 1" to the top side of the bottom nut.

[jrspawn]

Originally posted by josborn
Well thats interesting on the spacers, Nate told me to run them in the front, but he didnt sound real sure about that. Can anyone (Justin?) tell us which is which. I would assume Grant has them in the +1 position, with the big spacers toward the rear, and mine is the 0+ position with the big spacers toward the front?

Also, my adjustable upper mounts are 1.5" (for now) to the nut in manner you described yours. I plan to take off the rear spring and deflate the fronts to set them up how mike described above.

I have almost always ran mine with the big spacers in the rear( making it plus one). I like the way it feels that way. But everyone has different likes. I also run alot of castor and almost zero camber. But again that's what I like. Also most walsh stems have forward and back mounting spots to adjust for the tie rods also.

Set your lowers all the same also for the rotations out from bottomed out. Normally 2 threads will work. You should be able to get any other adjustments needed out of the uppers.

Always make sure to set your castor first when dialing in the castor/camber. And adjust equally when setting the camber( after castor is set). If not you will chase your tail with setup.

And like posted, pull the rear shock off and fully bottom the front shocks, use the 2x4 method to determine shock tower height. Make sure you are using the recommended shock length though to start with.

Justin

[josborn]

I was also told that the front and rear holes on the stem flag would help it steer quicker or slower, if needed. I'm running them in the front (the slower of the choices), I was told if I wanted it to steer quicker, move them to the rear. It was preference thing, has anyone tried both?

[josborn]

I did some trimming tonight. Sending a spare carb to Sredrum tomorrow, We'll test two different carb sizes with this rail.

http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll283/josborn99/100_2254.jpg

http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll283/josborn99/100_2253.jpg


http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll283/josborn99/100_2252.jpg

[hontrx265r]

Looks sweet! I like how you kept them wider like I did instead of having the traditional race cut.

[josborn]

Yep, you sold me on the wide cut. My old ones were similar, but not quite that wide I dont think. I thought oh well, if I dont like it, I can always cut more off.

[gtilley45]

Nice cut. I'm liking that style cut more and more every time I see it.

[troybilt]

I like that cut too... makes me what to get full fender Maiers for my build and cut them like that vs. full bores.... nice work! Cutting fenders always makes me nervous... LOL!

[CADWELL]

I agree, I like that cut alot.

It's coming together pretty nice!

[josborn]

http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll283/josborn99/100_2256.jpg

http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll283/josborn99/100_2257.jpg

http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll283/josborn99/100_2258.jpg

http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll283/josborn99/100_2259.jpg

[gtilley45]

I like that seat. Quad Tech is still making 250R seats aren't they? I didn't know if that was one you bought new or what.

[josborn]

Yep, you can still get a cover and foam from Quad Tech. I had bought a seat just for the seat pan.

[gtilley45]

That's good. I'm gonna need a new seat cover.

[josborn]

This bumper caught me eye, and I knew I needed it.

http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll283/josborn99/100_2263.jpg

http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll283/josborn99/100_2262.jpg

http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll283/josborn99/100_2261.jpg

Now the question is do I pc it? or leave it bare?

[dlunn]

I run the same bumper on my 250R. I think its one of the nicest looking ones out there.

[spanky101]

I like it man! That's a tough call between coatingit or keeping it bare!!

[gtilley45]

I like that bumper. I want a different bumper for mine, I'll have to keep that one in mind. Right now I'm leaning toward the IMS Intimidator MX bumper but I like that one too.

As for PC or bare....I say definately PC. If you leave it bare, you'll have to re-polish it all the time to keep it looking good. Plus you'll have pretty much every part of the quad PCed so the bumper wouldn't look right if it wasn't. That's my opinion anyway....and you know what they say about opinions. :D

[hontrx265r]

I'd say leave the bumper so it doesn't show nicks as easy. Also on that adapter. I did both one for a 250r filter which is 4" and one for the big filter. The advantage to the smaller filter.."if" there is no difference in performance. Is that you can tuck the box up tighter in the subframe.

[CADWELL]

Based on those 2 bumpers, my vote goes to the IMS one.

I've actually grown to like bare aluminium for some reason, I think because of what hontrx265r says. All I do to get it nice and shiney again is lightly sand it with 800grit sand paper.

[hontrx265r]

I have both intake adapters now. I had the bigger of the two. Last night I got the one that adapts the boot to the 250r filter. Personally pending performance gains/losses, I like the 250r one much better. It tucks up so much higher the box will be almost flush with the bottom of the subframe. I really like that clean look. We'll see how it goes when I finally get it on the dyno.

[josborn]

So, we could make a box that would accept both adaptors?

[hontrx265r]

Yes I could make one box that fits both, but I wanted to make the box as "tight" in the sub as possible. As of right now I just have the two adapters and two filters. I just have it ziptied through my subframe to support it. I wasn't going to make the box till I dyno'd it to see if there is an advantage to one over the other. Obviously if the bigger filter makes more power then I would use it. But just a hunch.. I don't think the motor pulls enough air to out perform either filter. I mean seriously the filters on our quads could go on a 600hp diesel truck!!

[hontrx265r]

Here is a picture of the 250r filter on it. Its up a little high because the zipties are pulling on it. But it will actually sit flush with the subframe. I don't have a pic of the bigger 450r filter like this but you can see it in the last pic under my topic post on my bike.

[josborn]

We'll I'll do what ever you find out on the dyno. If its 250r filters so be it. I will do whichever. Let me know what you find. That way i can order some new filters.

[hontrx265r]

k I talked to the guys today. I'm going to ride it this weekend just to make sure everything is g.t.g. and to the dyno next wednesday.

[Pro1200]

pc the bumper because it will match your nerfs

[gtilley45]

Originally posted by josborn
I got the front end on loose today. Opted to go with 05' 450r spindles and hubs. Just had to get different kingpins from Walsh. New tie rod ends complete, as well as new inner rod ends on the arms.

http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll283/josborn99/100_2130.jpg

http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll283/josborn99/100_2128.jpg


OK, I was just reading back through this thread because I am really leaning toward putting the '04-'05 spindle/hub/caliper set up on my Walsh YZ. My front left brake is acting up and if I'm gonna have to buy parts, might as well go with this.

You said you had to get different kingpins. What is different about them? I've got 400EX spindles with adapters and 250R calipers now, I thought the 450R spindles would just bolt up. I've also read through the sticky in the 250R section that you were talking about. What kind of tie rods are you running. Thanks! :)

[Lasher]

My Walsh 250R has 400ex spindles with the Walsh adapters for 250R calipers.

When I got my CRF chassis from Walsh, I asked which spindles to run. His first reply was 400ex. But he also said that 450R spindles would work. When I questioned which years to use (04-05 or 06+) he said it did not matter for his chassis.

I looked into the 400ex section and found that the 06+ is very similar to the 400ex spindles and alot of those guys were doing the swap. I just picked up a set of 07 spindles but not enough time to compare them to the 400ex on my other Walsh.

Also, if you run 400ex spindles, the YZ450R brakes will bolt right up, to get dual piston calipers. At least that is what I read.

[josborn]

Grant-I'm not 100% sure whats different about the kingpins. It seems to me that they are shorter than 400ex walsh kingpins, at least thats what I remember laying them on the bench together, but I'd call Walsh about it. I know I didnt need the top hats, or the caps that bolt the kingpin in from the other side. Those were reusable. Just tell nate to sell you what he sold Jeremy Osborn. Should be about $55 for all four. And ask him where my skid plate is, lol. The tie rods are the std Walsh rods that come with the a-arms, so no change there, and you can run any year caliper with 450r. Just the spindles and hubs must be the same, 04-05 & 06+.

Lasher-I was told the same thing, 400ex works just as good, no point in doing this, but I, like you, wanted the better braking action of the 450r calipers. I just didnt have the guts to get the 06+ parts. Nate said that if I did 450r, that 04-05 was the way to go. I have no idea why, yet. Supposedly it turns better, we will see.

[Lasher]

I justified getting the 06 spindle/hubs by two reasons.

If the chassis was designed for the 400ex spindle, and the 06 is a match then that would be "good enough".
Also...
06 stuff is much cheaper easier to find.

Maybe an upgrade in a year or so. Has anyone asked Nate about using the LTR stuff? Like his new hybrid...

[C41Xracer]

Yes the yfz front calipers are a dirrect bolt on for the 400ex spindle, these are on my hybrid

[josborn]

Its been a minute. Once I started working on my track, and got it open for the season, I didnt have much time for the Walsh. However, We were rained out this weekend, so I got the motor in tonight, after I finished working on the Mack.

http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll283/josborn99/100_2349.jpg

http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll283/josborn99/100_2348.jpg

http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll283/josborn99/100_2346.jpg

http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll283/josborn99/100_2345.jpg

[quadmxracer]

Nice quad man. I wish I still had my JB racing CRF. Good luck on the build. Pretty Sexy!

[josborn]

Well, I think I found an intake setup that I like. Most of the diehard Honda guys will freak, but hey, if it works so be it. I am using a Yfz boot, box, and pro-design oversized filter. The boot fits way better than the lt500 boot. It fits like it was made for it. The box will fit in there good. In order to get all of the tabs above the frame rails, the aluminum adaptor plate has to be out. I broke one off by try to get it up in there with the plate on. No biggie, I made some mounts anyway. I used 250r front fender gromets, the ones at the rear of the front fenders, and I placed them where the 250r box mounts in the front. Honda couldnt get me the original grommets for this location. Then using some flat stock, and some tubing, I made front mounts that bolt to the aluminum flange. They arent the prettiest thing in the world, I think i may have some nice ones made out of aluminum. I do plan to make a bracket for the rear of the box to keep it from moving around from vibration.

http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll283/josborn99/100_2361.jpg

http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll283/josborn99/100_2360.jpg

http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll283/josborn99/100_2359.jpg

[C41Xracer]

That does fit like it was ment to be

[hontrx265r]

Not throwing salt in your game, but I thought of this same combo on my crf. check your up travel you could be busting airbox's in a heart beat. I was going to use an r box but even those bang the swingarm on the cr rear end. I didn't want a cracked airbox on my bike the first ride out. The boot is a ringer though. I swayed away becasue the lt boot fit the 50mm throttle body better, but yfz works great on the carb.

[josborn]

I have not checked the clearance yet, that was my next move. Taking the springs off the rear and collapse it. I had Yfz boxes on all my PRP's. So i guess we'll see. However, the boot works so good, i might just make up a box for the big yz filters. I'll post what i find.

[jrspawn]

I've used Yfz intakes and airboxes on several of my hybrids over the years. Best kept secret for some time:cool: Like Josborn said, the fit is Much better than the lt setup.

I've used this setup on most of my Laeger yzf quads with absolutely no issues.

[josborn]

Ok, I cheated a smidge. I ran all the preload out, and droped the clip holding the springs. Instead of taking the shock off, and taking the springs off, then putting it back on. However, with me on it, I was able to strap it down to where it had the cushion compressed to within a 1/2" of metal on metal. Which you would only have if blew the damn cushion out. So it was pretty freakin bottomed out.

I had 1" between the swingarm, and the air box.

http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll283/josborn99/100_2366.jpg

[josborn]

Its ALIVE!!!!!!!!!! Alive!


Sounds good too.

[gtilley45]

That's awesome man! VERY nice build.

I just wish I could figure out why my Walsh YZ is running like *****.

[SHIFTx450]

Do these YFZ intakes fit nice in the 400ex frames as well? Trying to figure something out with my jb framed crf..

[woodsracer144]

what nerfs are those? that look freakin trick!

[josborn]

AC Propegs done in gray.

[josborn]

DONE!

http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll283/josborn99/100_2436.jpg

http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll283/josborn99/100_2438.jpg

http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll283/josborn99/100_2435.jpg

http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll283/josborn99/100_2434.jpg

http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll283/josborn99/100_2433.jpg

[laeger2fiddyr]

That thing looks awesome!! Nice build!!!!!:)

[gtilley45]

Wow, that turned out great!

[fandl450r]

Droooool.

Turned out amazing!

[hontrx265r]

Bike looks great! Hows it ride?

[madskrillz2]

OH MY GAWD! So disgustingly sick

[josborn]

Actually took it out today to try and dial in the shocks. The rear feels awesome, the fronts I got them to a pretty good spot. Feels good so far. The motor flat rips. Way fast. It feels like it could jump anything. I shutter to think about hitting something 4th gear pinned on this one. My yammi was good, but i had to run it pretty hard in comparison to this. The CRF just feels more hooked up everywhere. I rode our C level track today a smidge, just to test. Cant wait to take it over to the big track.

It went really well for the first test day.

Oh and FYI, for those wanting to do trx spindles on the Walsh, you will need the 450r kingpins and upper a-arms from Walsh. I had to really adjust the inner pivots out pretty far to set the camber. Walsh said not to go beyond 3/4" of an inch of thread showing. That leaves me with roughly 3/4" of camber, but i dont like having those rod ends out that far. I mean i'm getting by for now, but this is a short term setup. So Walsh is making a longer set of uppers for my setup.

[gtilley45]

I was noticing that you have the DWT champion in a box wheels. I've got the same set of wheels that I was gonna put on mine when I re-do it, but it has 3-2 offset wheels on it now and the DWT wheels are 4-1. I measured my bike the other day and with the 3-2 wheels, it's 48 1/2" wide. So I'm a bit worried that if I put 4-1's on it that 46 1/2" might be a little too narrow. What's your thoughts? I was wondering if I could put a arms from a narrow frame Walsh on there and stay closer to 50".

[josborn]

Something doesnt sound right there. I thought all Walsh hybrid chassis we're setup for 4:1 wheels. I would call Walsh to see how much longer the narrow framed a-arms actually are. I haven't run anything but 4:1 wheels for about ten years on every machine that i have had. Nothing turns better when properly setup.

[gtilley45]

Oh I know 4-1s are better, that's why I was asking. I've got to call Walsh today anyway to see about getting a new shock tower since I broke mine.

[jrspawn]

Originally posted by gtilley45
Oh I know 4-1s are better, that's why I was asking. I've got to call Walsh today anyway to see about getting a new shock tower since I broke mine.

Sounds like you have +2 arms on a wide frame. +4 arms on a walsh wide frame and you will be too wide. I've ran into the same thing before on a couple old lost creek hybrids. They would have a +2 setup and require a 3/2 wheel to get to the correct width.

[gtilley45]

Originally posted by jrspawn
Sounds like you have +2 arms on a wide frame. +4 arms on a walsh wide frame and you will be too wide. I've ran into the same thing before on a couple old lost creek hybrids. They would have a +2 setup and require a 3/2 wheel to get to the correct width.
I think this is an old Lost Creek bike, it still has the seat cover on it. Supposedly it's Dave Diver's old bike and he rode for Lost Creek didn't he? If the narrow frame +4 a arms would be too long, what would I need? Does Walsh even make +3 a arms?

[jrspawn]

Originally posted by gtilley45
I think this is an old Lost Creek bike, it still has the seat cover on it. Supposedly it's Dave Diver's old bike and he rode for Lost Creek didn't he? If the narrow frame +4 a arms would be too long, what would I need? Does Walsh even make +3 a arms?

You got it. You need to run +3's on a wide(standard) frame to be able to run 4/1 wheels and be at the 49-50 width.

[gtilley45]

Thanks Justin!!

josborn- Sorry I keep cluttering up your build thread like that. Maybe we should move all this to one of my threads where I was asking questions about my bike. :p

[josborn]

U need my arms! Im actually getting new uppers so I can run the 450r spindles with out the top heims being too far out, and my camber setup right. If you come across lowers, I will sell you some uppers here in a few weeks.

[gtilley45]

I might be interested. I guess I could always buy lowers from Walsh if I had to. When do you think that'll be? If you want to, PM or email me the details and we'll talk about it.

[reconmaster]

sick quad defintly appreciate the work you put in it

[josborn]

Just wanted to post some things I found out from my build, i know there is some wrong info throughout this thread. Here's the facts:

02-03 motor differences (compared to 05+):

*Left crankcase is 1/2" narrower at bottom mount (not right)
*Head stay must be from an 02-04' bike, otherwise it will not work with the holes on the walsh removable subframe
*Must have either walsh front motor mounts for 05+, or the "old motor"

Also, dont even think about trying a TRX450r shifter, not even close.

450r Front Calipers/Spindle:

*You need 05' spindles (according to Walsh)
*All year calipers are the same
*You will need longer upper a-arms. I have mine adjusted out to the max (3/4" thread showing), and the camber is close, but not close enough. Walsh is building me a longer set.

Axis Rear Shock:
I tried using a cr500 laeger length shock, which is 18.625" e/e, and has a stroke of 5.25". Walsh setup should be 18.125" with 4.625 shaft travel. I rode it with the cr500 long setup, however I put two inserts below the bottom out bumper to reduce the travel to 5". The problems: ride height about an inch too high, jumped fine, but it was too soft on big landings, just didnt corner as good as it should. I'm at zero preload to get the ride height down as far as I could. So after after talking with Axis, we are going to shorten the shock to the 18.125" and increase the spring rate, and go up a step on the valving. If you can do your own shock work, they can supply everything you ned to do this. Its fairly simple.

FYI, My shock is going from a 400lbs per inch main to a 450lbs per inch main. So there is considerable differnce between the two shock setups. But I might have $150 in everything to do the conversion. Also, if you try to ride it like I did, your bottom out bumper may only last like 8 rides, mine was shot, like nothing left. I cant believe it was still on there.

[hontrx265r]

On the new setup, you said your going to bump main spring pressure 50lbs, because your blowing through the travel. However assuming you have the dual rate spring setup. If your preload is at zero, your not putting enough pressure on the main to begin with, also depending on what you did with your crossover this has a huge effect.

I was riding my lsr bike and the crossover collars vibrated loose and moved up. All of the sudden I was bottoming on the face of the jump before taking off. I couldn't believe how little it had to move to have such a big effect on the ride. Either way I guess you'll have both springs just you may end up where you started once its the proper length, and you can set the preload correctly.

Also whats the ride report on the air shocks? Your bike appeared to sit pretty high (not sure if it was compressed though) Are those working out well on the front?

[gtilley45]

That info on the rear shock will be useful when I start trying to get a Fox rear for my Walsh. LOL

[dustin_j]

I agree with hontrx265r, you are changing quite a few variables at once. That is also a huge jump in spring rate. Have you tried tightening the crossover gap (longer spacer) to increase the rate sooner?

hontrx265r, do you prefer to choose springs such that you use a specific amount of preload? I try to choose springs that achieve ride height with no preload for initial plushness.

[josborn]

The increase spring rate is due to the shortening of the shock, it has less time to resist bottoming, these are numbers from Axis, and I agree. It makes sense to me, it was too soft, and now it will have even less time to resist bottoming.

The rear crossover is a fine tuning tool. I have it set at about an 1.5", which is in the ballpark. I floated between 1-2" on all my other cr-link setups. And I checked it before taking it apart, it was tight.

Old bottoming was 1857lbs at 5" shaft travel. The new will be 1907lbs at 4.625" shaft travel (given 1.5" crossover and 450 lbs spring). I think we're headed in the right direction.

The main reason for this change was the ride height, and still getting it a little plush on top. You're right, I could have run preload and the crossover down and made it more like a single rate to resist the bottoming, but then the chassis would have been even higher than it is now (8"), and it would have been as plush on top.

Also, I need to get new pics up, I have the front end dropped down since I have been dialing it in. I'm getting closer on the shocks, they are similar to Fox, but I think they have more range. The changes in air pressure or more effective. In short, minor adjustments mean change. With the Fox, it seemed like you had to change them drastically , and you got allot more of a trade-off.

[hontrx265r]

josborn- don't take what I said wrong, I'm not telling you to not do what you said. I would absolutely start with the correct shock for the bike. I had axis rebuild my nolink into a cr500 for my laeger. They actually sent me the dyno graph and it would appear spot on. But I'll be changing the valving a little already. Its all rider preference.

[josborn]

I didnt. I'm just explaining, why we are moving in that direction. Plus, I like it when there is an actual engineered response to problem that I read in a thread, rather than thats what so and so said, or I heard that this might possibly be the way it is....Not that my way/Axis' way is the only way. There is more than one way to skin a cat, I just thought I would share this one.

[dustin_j]

I appreciate the response josborn, thanks for sharing.

[josborn]

http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll283/josborn99/100_2483.jpg

http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll283/josborn99/100_2482.jpg

http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll283/josborn99/100_2481.jpg

I just got the shock back together and washed it. It sits about 1/2-3/4" lower than before. I'm running about 1/4" of preload. still 1.5" of crossover. Now I just need to some decent weather to test it out tomorrow.

[laeger400]

Man that thing is really nice. I just hope to one day have something like that again. Very nice!

[hontrx265r]

Not that you will but if you want it to handle that much better, run the 86 style foam. It drops The seat height considerably. Really changes the feel.

[jrspawn]

Originally posted by hontrx265r
Not that you will but if you want it to handle that much better, run the 86 style foam. It drops The seat height considerably. Really changes the feel.

:macho Very wise choice! It's amazing how the two different seat heights can make it feel like two different quads!!!

86 or custom foam to 86 height is the only way to go!

[3leggeddog]

YO J-DOG....


that thing is sexyyyyyyyyyy!

much ride time on her yet? how is the CRF of the YZF?

mad props on a sick build bro

[scotturban]

such a sexy quad, briar cliff is in ohio right? a lot of quad riders go there?

[scotturban]

such a sexy quad, briar cliff is in ohio right? a lot of quad riders go there?