Full Flight vs. Houser

[ridgeracer]

I am just investigating options for some new +2 A-arms for my 400ex. The two I'm looking at are Full Flight and Houser. Just curious if one holds up better than the other or if they are both pretty equal.

[NacsMXer]

Huge difference, i'd spend the extra for Housers anyday. Full Flights are decent, but that's about it. Their joints and overall strength don't compare to Houser.

[ridgeracer]

I thought so, the joints definitely look like a weak point, and they are quite exposed to the elements.

[motochamp250]

I'd prolly go houser. They are popular for a reason. Nice durable a-arm setup.

Hunter

[ds19]

I have had houser long travels on my MX z400 for two years, bent one joint, no problems other then that, never tried full flights though

[ridgeracer]

What about Burguards? I know they support the site and I think they have Std. travel for like $385 to your door right now.

[NacsMXer]

Originally posted by ridgeracer
What about Burguards? I know they support the site and I think they have Std. travel for like $385 to your door right now.

Again, decent, but not the best. They will hold up for your everyday and recreational riding just fine. I wouldn't trust them over something stronger for serious jumping or MX riding though.

The reason I say that is they are still using older style lower ball joints that can snap off suddenly on impact. Trust me I know this from experience with my previous std travel arm with those style joints.

Newer arms have what's called a "frap" style lower ball joint that locks into a built in tab in the a-arm. This essentially makes the metal of the a-arm and ball joint one solid unit. The older ball joints are the same as having a bolt sticking out of the arm....that bolt can snap off. Burgard doesn't offer a "frap" style lower balljoint setup until you get into their long travel arms. The std travel Burgards also don't have any gussets/support added to them, so they are lacking in strength compared to higher end arms.

Again, if you are not doing any serious jumping and just rec riding, the Burgards should hold up just fine.

Here's a pic of a "frap" style lower ball joint, notice how it locks into the end of the arm.
http://www.atvfourplay.com/2010/Area%2051%20A%20arms/Area%2051%20A%20arms0279_small9501.JPG

Burgard standard style lowers
http://www.burgardcycle.com/xc2/images/P/A-Arms-Side-Chrome275-01.jpg

[ridgeracer]

Very helpful! I appreciate the info. I learn something new on this site everyday. :D

[quadrider2112]

std travel laeger arms have the good ball joints.

[NacsMXer]

Originally posted by quadrider2112
std travel laeger arms have the good ball joints.

Yup, the Std travel Laegers are very nice arms. They are also gussetted at the lower shock mounts for strength. They are a bit more expensive though ($700+).

ridgeracer, I would also highly recommend looking at JD Performance's std travel arms. They are $575. Very high quality and are essentially Laeger copies. They have the upgraded Frap lower ball joints and are gusseted as well. Lots of colors to choose from too.
http://www.jdperformance.net/488%20Web%20Design/a%20arms.html

I ran a set of JD's when they first came out years ago and they were awesome quality. Only downfall like I said above was at that time, the Frap style lower ball joints weren't in use, so they used a standard ball joint. One of mine snapped suddenly when I landed from a jump and I have since not trusted that style lower ball joint. JD's customer service was excellent and took care of it free of charge. But rest assured, that old design is long gone, and they now only use the stronger Frap joint design.

Here's a pic of my old std arms, they were very stout
http://img534.imageshack.us/img534/970/dsc00150yq.jpg (http://img534.imageshack.us/i/dsc00150yq.jpg/)

[airmobile101]

Originally posted by NacsMXer
Again, decent, but not the best. They will hold up for your everyday and recreational riding just fine. I wouldn't trust them over something stronger for serious jumping or MX riding though.

The reason I say that is they are still using older style lower ball joints that can snap off suddenly on impact. Trust me I know this from experience with my previous std travel arm with those style joints.

Newer arms have what's called a "frap" style lower ball joint that locks into a built in tab in the a-arm. This essentially makes the metal of the a-arm and ball joint one solid unit. The older ball joints are the same as having a bolt sticking out of the arm....that bolt can snap off. Burgard doesn't offer a "frap" style lower balljoint setup until you get into their long travel arms. The std travel Burgards also don't have any gussets/support added to them, so they are lacking in strength compared to higher end arms.

Again, if you are not doing any serious jumping and just rec riding, the Burgards should hold up just fine.

Here's a pic of a "frap" style lower ball joint, notice how it locks into the end of the arm.
http://www.atvfourplay.com/2010/Area%2051%20A%20arms/Area%2051%20A%20arms0279_small9501.JPG

Burgard standard style lowers
http://www.burgardcycle.com/xc2/images/P/A-Arms-Side-Chrome275-01.jpg
Thats not a Frap joint bro.

[airmobile101]

This a Frap joint
http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm242/TimmyRuark/002-19.jpg

[NacsMXer]

Originally posted by airmobile101
Thats not a Frap joint bro.

They are both Frap balljoints. Frap offers many different style joints.

ATV Four Play's description for those arms: "Uses FRAP sealed ball joints"

[airmobile101]

I understand that, but you posted ATV4PLAY pic and your giving the original author the wrong info. He asked about Full Flight and Houser. When it comes to Frap designed ball joints, Houser uses the one I posted(the pressed in ones). You posted Lower Frap that ATV4PLAY, ARS-FX, HD(I-SHOCK), and god knows who else uses, Its not the same!

[NacsMXer]

He asked about the Burgard standard travel arms. And I informed him that they still use the traditional non-interlocking ball joints on their standard arms.

Many newer standard travel arms have overcomed the downfall of the old style ball joints by using the frap interlocking ball joint. I posted a pic of the ATV Four Play arms simply as an example of the style of ball joint. It was one of the first image search results that came up when I searched for a frap ball joint on Google.

Then someone mentioned Laegers that use that style joint (but are more expensive), and I got to thinking of my old JD Performance arms which are carbon copies, and also use that style joint. I was thinking of some of the more inexpensive arms out there that use the frap lowers. That's crazy if you think i'm providing the wrong info b/c I suggested options other than Houser/Fullflight. There's a lot of good stuff to choose from. And it seems that he is looking at standard travel arms. Houser doesn't offer the press in style like you posted until you get their long travel arms. So the next best thing is to look at arms with the interlocking frap lower (like in the ATV Four Play pic I posted).

I didn't check Houser's prices before b/c I thought they were more expensive for some reason. But I just checked, and their standard arms are the same $575 as JD, and look even better with added support to the upper arms, and added grease zerks.
http://www.houser-racing.com/SPD/030109-+2--wide-regular-travel-a-arms----mxs-bushing-style--honda-400ex-199--80000DBE-1245099694.jsp

http://www.houser-racing.com/images/030109hr.jpg

[ridgeracer]

Those Houser long travel fraps look like the strongest option hands down. However, I realistically do not get big air, or else I would invest in some Long travels to begin with. I also want to keep it under $600 (my atv budget is currently tight). The interlocking frap looks like more than enough strength for how I ride. Plus the zerk fittings are an added bonus.

But now that I've seen those LT fraps I'm gonna wish I could spring for those. :blah:

[chronicsmoke]

Right now I'm running F-Flights and they are ok.. I've already had 2 incidents since I purchased them off of a user midway through the summer.

BUT, they were ridiculously priced, I couldnt say no.

Both encounters were of the same nature=Old Generation Heims used by F-Flight (They are bolted in..) . I hit a table (Both times, different track) and the bolt had backed out of the heim and the pin released from the joint so my spindal was only connected by the upper a-arm. Luckily both times I was able to tame the machine before being ejected. I purchased the chromolly ones (New Generation) that aren't bolted. I will update how sturdy they are after a couple of track sessions.

I'm new to MX so I will probably be looking to upgrade if these new style of heims don't work out.

If youve got the money, look elsewhere for A-arms, though besides that, that have been very good to me.

[250x_kyle]

ive run housers on two of my quads and they are worth the extra money. my buddy had full flights and ended up upgrading to housers. as far as burguard goes i ordered parts off of them for my 450r and had to threaten to report them to the BBB and the credit card company for them to even care i was a customer and get my parts out wich was almost two and a half months after i ordered.

[Zeb400EX]

get on ebay and search ( 400ex gtt)
I just bought a set of these to replace my fullflights. The gt thunder arms are built very well for the money and they have frap ball joints. I had one of my old fullflights come apart too. After that I was done with them. I bought the gtt's for $415.

[01 400EXer]

Check out JD Performance a-arms. I have an older set but the new ones are even better by using beefier ball joints. I think the guy who builds them used to work for Laeger back in the day.

[400exrider707]

Haven't posted in a while, but it's nice to stop by and offer some info.


Unless FullFlight has severely changed their manufacturing process, their arms are completely crapoloa, huge gaps between mating surfaces filled in with weld, arms aren't true, left arm and right are aren't even squared up. Heims suck, though I often hear you can upgrade your own or they may offer it now, but the angles they're mounted on the arm at, cause them to bind, by simply bolting them on... just not a quality arm by any stretch of the imagination.

Houser makes a good arm, so does JD and ATV fourplay (just seeing the names mentioned in this thread)

Burgard's budget arms use the same balljoint top and bottom, and it's WEAK. I've personally watched a team member go over the handlebars during a race 2x in one season because that lower balljoint broke. He replaced them with Ishock arms ( just what we found cheap on here). However, Burgard also offers a "heavy duty" a-arm, that has the larger balljoints. The price is similar to Houser arms.

I've run Housers and JB racing arms myself and love both of these brands.