Hunting as an identified native on reserves?

[rbgnwa45]

I got a native status card (Algonquins of Ontario/Antoine First Nation) a couple days ago, not a federal card (tax breaks, free education, no tax on gas, smokes) but I'm identified in my tribe. I can hunt or fish at any time on any reserve as much as I want, the limit for non-natives is 3 fish. I know nothing about hunting, but I'd like to try it and I have some questions. I'd mostly like to know if I can make money hunting, but apparently I can't sell what I catch because it all has to be inspected and raised properly with all that prime chicken grain fed stuff. I don't have a passion for hunting.

I can't sell deer meat, right? On a reserve? Can you trade game? It's legal in Alberta to sell farm-raised whitetail, from $5-$17/pound I read.

Guns. I love them, but I'm so picky. I want one that doesn't rust. A single-shot bolt-action, without a clip to lose. Light and powerful. What's a deer-hunting caliber? I don't want a deer to be almost-dead, I don't want it to be in pain at all, a really quick death. Hopefully a large enough bullet will make up for a mistake at long range.

How many deer go through your scope when you hunt?

Could you imagine travelling through a reserve in Ontario and seeing me in a little corner store like heeey, you wanna buy some venison jerky? lol or does that sound messed up? :ermm:

After getting this card, my first thought was I could find a huge buck and turn it into a used 400ex but I just don't think that'll happen lol.

[jcv400ex]

So you do live in Canada, right?

[rbgnwa45]

Yes, I live in Southern Ontario. I'm 1/4th or 1/16th native? Dunno how that works. My grandma or great grandma is fully native. I might be included in the Algonquin park land settlement, something like $250,000 or 100 acres of land per person. It probably won't go through because you might have to be full or 1/2 blood, still my mom gets a *lot* of money/land because she does qualify for a federal status card. The parliament buildings are on Algonquin land, of all 8.9 million acres :p. Mediated talks are supposed to be in August.

I'm not shooting rabbits, cute things or birds, huge deer only. Maybe a turkey, I never see them though.

The kill-limit laws are there for a reason (roughly, what are those like?) but how many deer kills a year is too much?

How does venison taste when dried & flavored like beef jerky, does it even work?

[jcv400ex]

SOOOOO GLAD! He's all yours Greg! :devil:

[rbgnwa45]

Originally posted by jcv400ex
SOOOOO GLAD! He's all yours Greg! :devil:

What's that supposed to mean?

I'm asking if it's legal to do any of these maybe-illegal things :o.

[ben300]

in response to your question "can i make money hunting?"...the answer is basically no...the people you see on tv put hundreds upon hundreds of hours on tv to get the footage and what not that they do..

you can make money as a guide or as an owner of lands where people pay for hunts, but from the sounds of your knowledge of hunting, you wont be able to do this either.

my best advice is to go and take a hunters safety course, if they offer them in canada. im sure they do...

in response to the gun. all guns rust, minus custom carbon fiber guns and polymer guns. i would check your local or province regulations on guns, but a good bolt action rifle would be a remington model 700, savage model 11, browning a bolt. there are many good calibers for deer hunting. some versatile calibers are .270's, 7mm-.08, .30-06, and .243, but im in not a fan of the .243 for deer hunting...

also, i do not know about mooseland, but its illegal to sell meat that you hunt in the united states. you can donate meat to some charities. so once again, i would check your provinces's or national regulations.

good luck.

[rbgnwa45]

Originally posted by ben300
in response to your question "can i make money hunting?"...the answer is basically no...the people you see on tv put hundreds upon hundreds of hours on tv to get the footage and what not that they do..

you can make money as a guide or as an owner of lands where people pay for hunts, but from the sounds of your knowledge of hunting, you wont be able to do this either.

Thanks. All yesterday I was thinking I could make a living selling deer meat (one a week), then when I get home I asked my friend what he thinks a deer costs, he says nothing, I said what? He says have you ever seen it in stores? :huh lol That's how much I know about hunting.

I had a pellet gun that didn't rust. Polymer sounds like the way to go. There isn't some kind of barrel-finish that prevents rust?

I'd pick up hunting quick. A lot of people in my family do it, and I have another house way up north. The snow is a lot crazier up north too. Everybody either has a sled or a quad, and I even saw a bunch of quads with tracks which looked like tanks it's so awesome. Even the police were out on sleds.

If we got land, I would try to pimp it :scary: just I won't give up tree's. What's the best way to make money with 100 acres of forrest? Maple syrup lol.

[CJM]

Gotta understand, normally I would have some kinda advice here but Im at a loss.

Not to many Canucks here..

[Pappy]

I think you will find that on most reserves (Indian) they self regulate the harvest of game much more so then outside the reserve. If there is money to be made, the reserve itself usually sets up some form of guide service, and the monies go to the reserve, not the individual.

The majority of deer meat you will find on the market is farm raised, not wild.

[Canadian144]

Best bet would be to look for a Canadian hunting forum.... or look up ATV Canada, it's a forum for Canadian ATVers, not that many of us on there but I believe quite a few guys hunt in Ontario and they could probably help you out.

[ben300]

Originally posted by rbgnwa45
Thanks. All yesterday I was thinking I could make a living selling deer meat (one a week), then when I get home I asked my friend what he thinks a deer costs, he says nothing, I said what? He says have you ever seen it in stores? :huh lol That's how much I know about hunting.

I had a pellet gun that didn't rust. Polymer sounds like the way to go. There isn't some kind of barrel-finish that prevents rust?

I'd pick up hunting quick. A lot of people in my family do it, and I have another house way up north. The snow is a lot crazier up north too. Everybody either has a sled or a quad, and I even saw a bunch of quads with tracks which looked like tanks it's so awesome. Even the police were out on sleds.

If we got land, I would try to pimp it :scary: just I won't give up tree's. What's the best way to make money with 100 acres of forrest? Maple syrup lol.

99% of gun barrels, that is center fire rifles, have barrels that are made out of some alloy of steel and are either blued (type of finish) or stainless. some companies like remington and browning and others have been using special coatings that help to prevent rust because of the conditions they are used in. Beretta coats shot guns like the A391 xtremma 2 with a coating called "aqua" and brownign uses "dura touch" on guns like the maxus while remington uses nickle teflon or "TriNyte" coating on their XCR models of rifles and versamax shotguns. other manufactures use similar techniques.

These coatings greatly reduce rust or surface corrosion on the metal gun parts. how ever, like anything, if the gun is not cleaned and properly taken care of after use, it will eventually rust.

all guns, as long as you properly clean them and take care of them after use, and store them in a dry, room temperature place, should last for ever.

and honestly, i wouldnt know the best way to make the most money off 100 acres...i personally would use the land for hunting and wood cutting.

you could clear cut it, and sell the wood. depends on what the wood is and how profitable it is in your area.

[slightlybent47]

Well there’s nothing wrong with having a dream and wanting to do something about it.
It sounds like you’re very green to the hunting thing and there’s nothing wrong with that ether. You need to find some hunting forums and start there. A good hunting and gun course would be good as well. Look up your local hunting laws and if on reservation land you may need to check with there laws as well.
As for your gun rusting, is not a concern, a gun is small and easy to break down and clean so taking care of it is not a problem. A bolt action is very reliable and easy to use and take care of.
There no guaranty that any gun of any size that will have a 100% kill rate. Hunting is fun and rewarding but is not for the faint of heart.
Sorry to say the ones making all the money with hunting are guides and land owners who cater to guys like you with no experience.

[ben300]

Originally posted by slightlybent47
Sorry to say the ones making all the money with hunting are guides and land owners who cater to guys like you with no experience.

the only guides that really make any money are the ones that cater to the super wealthy.

[rbgnwa45]

Thanks.

I found a bunch of tree-$ info:

Merchantable height. 32 feet or two 16 foot logs

Diameter at Breast Height (DBH). DBH 18".

thus the tree has 164 board feet of timber or 0.164 thousand board feet.

At $250/thousand board feet, this tree is worth $41.00.

If the owner had 40 acres like the example, the total value would be $95,896.00. [$2,397.40 times 40]

Roughly $240,000, right around what they valued the property at. If me and my sister are in on this land claim, we'll have like a million bucks :huh.

http://www.arnatural.org/images/forestry/timber_marketing.gif

"•Trees can be worth as much as $100,000" - very large ones

http://savingourtrees.wordpress.com/2010/05/10/that-tree-could-be-worth-big-money/

"Pure maple syrup is around $6 for an 8 ounce bottle."

http://hubpages.com/hub/Homemade_Maple_Syrup

"Even the IHOP pancake restaurant in Burlington has gotten special permission from the company's headquarters to serve the real thing in addition to IHOP's own brand of flavored toppings made from corn syrup. But it'll cost you: 99 cents for an ounce-and-a-half packet, the equivalent of $84 a gallon."

This one guy has 700 acres and uses it to harvest syrup, he averages 337.5 gallons of syrup a day. At $84/gallon: +$28350/day*365 = $10M/year. His record speed is $33,000 in 6 hours. With global warming, it's becoming harder to produce, and the price sky rockets.

[buck440]

wow i cant believe people would pay that for deer meat. if we dont get on during season we cruise the backroads and look for a dead one that was recently shot. i think you got to really go out of your way to not get a deer if you live in the country.

[Quad18star]

Here's the deal .... you have a Metis card which identifies you as having aboriginal in your blood but it does not allow you to hunt at free will. In order to be able to hunt when and where you want, you need a true Status Card which would make you tax exempt.

Also there are sooo many rules that regulate the sale of meats and pelts ... you would have to get ahold of the Ministry of Natrual Resources to verify the requirements. But I'm telling you right now, with the card you have ... you get caught selling meat or furs and you're going to lose everything and get some hefty fines.

I have the same card .... it doesn't do jack for you. I got it before going into college to hopefully save some $$ on tuition and after making a few calls to the government, I found out all it does is show that I'm an 1/8th native. I still need to buy a hunting and fishing license, I still pay taxes on everything I buy , and I didn't save any money on tuition.

[Quad18star]

Also remember that the guys producing syrup do not operate 365 days per year. They make their money in a 3 week time frame when the sap is running. Also remember that there are other costs involved in producing ... sophisticated equipment that will costs the profits from a few years of production.

You can own a land claim and get government permits to cut trees, but they will regulate you and inspect you to the tits. First they will not allow you to clear cut anymore. If your property consists of red and white pines, they are protected trees and you need a special permit to cut . This permit will cost you $600 in Ontario and allow you to cut 2 trees. You then need to have the equipment to cut , de-limb , remove, haul and process the wood.

There is no real money to be made in the lumber industry. My aunt and uncle owned a fairly large forestry business for 25 years , and about 8 years ago the Ontario government applied different regulations and it killed their business They came out with so many different regulations that need to be followed and so many permits that need to be obtained (all at a cost) , plus the government takes a percentage ... that it was not feasible to operate anymore.



Originally posted by rbgnwa45
Thanks.

I found a bunch of tree-$ info:

Merchantable height. 32 feet or two 16 foot logs

Diameter at Breast Height (DBH). DBH 18".

thus the tree has 164 board feet of timber or 0.164 thousand board feet.

At $250/thousand board feet, this tree is worth $41.00.

If the owner had 40 acres like the example, the total value would be $95,896.00. [$2,397.40 times 40]

Roughly $240,000, right around what they valued the property at. If me and my sister are in on this land claim, we'll have like a million bucks :huh.

http://www.arnatural.org/images/forestry/timber_marketing.gif

"•Trees can be worth as much as $100,000" - very large ones

http://savingourtrees.wordpress.com/2010/05/10/that-tree-could-be-worth-big-money/

"Pure maple syrup is around $6 for an 8 ounce bottle."

http://hubpages.com/hub/Homemade_Maple_Syrup

"Even the IHOP pancake restaurant in Burlington has gotten special permission from the company's headquarters to serve the real thing in addition to IHOP's own brand of flavored toppings made from corn syrup. But it'll cost you: 99 cents for an ounce-and-a-half packet, the equivalent of $84 a gallon."

This one guy has 700 acres and uses it to harvest syrup, he averages 337.5 gallons of syrup a day. At $84/gallon: +$28350/day*365 = $10M/year. His record speed is $33,000 in 6 hours. With global warming, it's becoming harder to produce, and the price sky rockets.

[rbgnwa45]

Originally posted by Quad18star
I have the same card .... it doesn't do jack for you.

Mine says I'm protected under the Aboriginal rights act section 35, which includes fishing/hunting, right? I'll be damned if I drove 30 hours for a card that will do nothing for me. If you're 1/8th than you might be able to get in on the land claim, but your name will have to be in by February-?. My grandma and mom told me I didn't need a hunting/fishing licence on reserves :huh.

[Quad18star]

Originally posted by rbgnwa45
Mine says I'm protected under the Aboriginal rights act section 35, which includes fishing/hunting, right? I'll be damned if I drove 30 hours for a card that will do nothing for me. If you're 1/8th than you might be able to get in on the land claim, but your name will have to be in by February-?. My grandma and mom told me I didn't need a hunting/fishing licence on reserves :huh.

I'd really look into it from authorities like the MNR, MOE, Aboriginal Affairs.

[jesseweaver]

Originally posted by rbgnwa45

How many deer go through your scope when you hunt?



none

[ben300]

Originally posted by rbgnwa45
Mine says I'm protected under the Aboriginal rights act section 35, which includes fishing/hunting, right? I'll be damned if I drove 30 hours for a card that will do nothing for me. If you're 1/8th than you might be able to get in on the land claim, but your name will have to be in by February-?. My grandma and mom told me I didn't need a hunting/fishing licence on reserves :huh.

My grandma told me I could be an astronaut and that her sister communicates with space aliens, neither which are true

Sounds like your naive about life

[rbgnwa45]

Somehow I'm naive if I'm lied to by trusted family :o.

[CJM]

Point is your family isnt going to arrest or fine you should you wind up doing something your not supposed to.

Speak to someone who deals with this kinda stuff, not sure how it works up there but maybe the police, or whomever control this kinda stuff-before you do anything.

[ben300]

Originally posted by rbgnwa45
Somehow I'm naive if I'm lied to by trusted family :o.

point is family sometimes will tell you things, thinking that they are right, or that they know what they're talking about, and turns out they were actually wrong.

going on a forum to look for advice is a good idea, but going to your local government, or to the governing people of your tribes area, or what ever it may be, would probably end up giving you better results in finding the correct answer to all of your questions.

quad18star has given several good suggestions on possible leads to your search

[TCracin440ex]

this is all coming from the same guy who posted this thread http://www.exriders.com/vbb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=445222

far as the hunting thing goes. it aint for the faint of heart. hunting actually takes skill. it aint like you just call up the deer on the phone schedule a meeting and yall meet in the woods and whala a little while later your dragging out a monsterous buck thats wall worthy

for some it takes months of prep time and scouting out good locations and whatnot to get ready for the season ahead.

the only way to really make any money is if you run your own reservation for hunting deer. those guys who run them reservations make good money but you have to figure thats what they make their lively hood off of. they farm fields and keep food plots maintained all year long just for the hunters to pay big bucks to come in there and harvest deer off their reservation.

far as making and selling deer jerkey. yes the deer jerkey is good, but the time and effort put into making it is not worth the small profit to be made if any profit.

hunting is just not a skill one can pick up over night. you just aint going to wake up one day and decide to be a hunter and go do it and have it masterd in the first try. sorry but doesnt happen that way.

[ben300]

Originally posted by TCracin440ex
this is all coming from the same guy who posted this thread http://www.exriders.com/vbb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=445222

far as the hunting thing goes. it aint for the faint of heart. hunting actually takes skill. it aint like you just call up the deer on the phone schedule a meeting and yall meet in the woods and whala a little while later your dragging out a monsterous buck thats wall worthy

for some it takes months of prep time and scouting out good locations and whatnot to get ready for the season ahead.

the only way to really make any money is if you run your own reservation for hunting deer. those guys who run them reservations make good money but you have to figure thats what they make their lively hood off of. they farm fields and keep food plots maintained all year long just for the hunters to pay big bucks to come in there and harvest deer off their reservation.

far as making and selling deer jerkey. yes the deer jerkey is good, but the time and effort put into making it is not worth the small profit to be made if any profit.

hunting is just not a skill one can pick up over night. you just aint going to wake up one day and decide to be a hunter and go do it and have it masterd in the first try. sorry but doesnt happen that way.

as stated above...hunting takes skill and preparation.....for some of us, who are serious about it...its a year round process

[rbgnwa45]

This pretty much explains it all, in the case of R vs. Marshall. The crown appealed for 10+ years, and lost each case.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0OJX/is_2_29/ai_n25097464/

What was questioned:

1. Characterization of the right

2. Identification of the historic rights-bearing community

3. Identification of the contemporary rights-bearing community

4. Verification of the claimants' membership in the contemporary community

5. Identification of the relevant time frame

6. Determination of whether the practice is integral to the claimants' distinctive culture

7. Establishment of continuity between the historic practice and the contemporary right asserted

8. Determination of whether or not the right was extinguished

9. If there is a right, determination of whether there is an infringement

10. Determination of whether the infringement is justified

I think I'm covered by the constitution, although I wouldn't do any hunting/fishing until it's certain.

Why distinguish people differently just because they married into a different race or culture when those families would be the beneficiaries to the land anyways? It's like 100 years ago or something - if white guy marries hot indian girl with really nice skin, does her father, the chief, take white guys' kids (chiefys' grandkids) out of the will so that when the chief smokes his last pipe they get nothing? Hell no. Those some-what white kids and then their kids and their kids, let's say they're really white by now, would be the land beneficiaries. Me.

If the natives were forced to assimilate than why put on future generations a need to be full-blood to be a status aboriginal? It could be the governments fault that I'm not.

If the natives were here first than technically isn't all of Canada rightfully their land?

[Pipeless416]

Originally posted by rbgnwa45
Why distinguish people differently just because they married into a different race or culture when those families would be the beneficiaries to the land anyways? It's like 100 years ago or something - i

why try to benefit from something that happened "like 100 years ago" that you weren't a part of? you keep asking questions and you get responses that you weren't expecting.. take the advice or leave it. there's no sense in arguing when you clearly have a lot of research to do on the topic.

Everybody wants something for nothing lately.

[ben300]

Originally posted by Pipeless416
why try to benefit from something that happened "like 100 years ago" that you weren't a part of? you keep asking questions and you get responses that you weren't expecting.. take the advice or leave it. there's no sense in arguing when you clearly have a lot of research to do on the topic.

Everybody wants something for nothing lately.

ya this whole thing seems that he is like trying to find his own miracle get rich quick scheme.

plus judging by the thread that TCracing posted a link to...he seems like a big knuckle head, and doesnt want to take advice or responsibility for his own actions

[Quad18star]

And this one has run it's course.