Swingarm pivot bolt

[grassman]

Is there really no better way to get this som***** out of my FRAME!!! I guess Im gonna let it soak in PB blaster for a few days... I tried beating and air guns and got nothing. Im gonna try my best to save the bolt, but I guess we'll see what happens. Anybody have any "new" useful tips?

[nickm328]

Best way I've found is to lay it on it's side ( when I did it it was just the frame ) spray with penetrating oil every day for about a week screw the nut on till it's almost level with the bolt and knock the crap outta it with a mall. Worked for me and saved the bolt. Not the nut though.

[2001400exrida]

i pounded mine with a sledge and sprayed blaster all over it, still couldn't get it out.

we ended up having to cut the bolt out with a plasma cutter, it was rusted and bonded to the motor mount as well as the swingarm collers.

good luck these things get real nasty if they're older and were never lubed.

I will now remove mine and lube it like once a year to ensure that this doesn't happen again.

good luck hopefully if you let it sit with some pb blaster for a few days it might cut some of that rust crap out of there. lots of people manage to get it out with lube and a sledge, so you have a good chance if it's not too bound up.

[nickm328]

Yeah mine was an 05' and I did it a couple years ago so it was only a couple years old at the time.

[CJM]

Impact hammer, even an electric one will do the job.

[grassman]

Mine is an 03 and Its the original bolt... :grr: Guess Ill keep soaking it till I get my hands on an air hammer and give it hell... Thanks for the advise guys... Keep the tips coming if you got em.

[2001400exrida]

i don't want to discourage you, but the air hammer didn't work for mine. mine is an 01 and it was all original when i took the bolt out.

here's a photo of my buddy using a plasma cutter to cut it off.

http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m93/rschaef83/IMG_0647.jpg

if you do use the air hammer, we tried to turn the bolt with an impact and then hit it with the air hammer on the other side. my bolt would spin freely but it just would not budge out of there!

try turning it while you're driving it, that may help.

[nickm328]

That's what mine was doing turning but not coming out.

[CJM]

Some get lucky, some dont. Torching it out does suck, but if it worked it worked.

[quad2xtreme]

I'd take the subframe off so you have more room.

Easy enough to get sawzall in there and cut the bolt on each side of the engine.

Unbolt the engine and lift it enough to slide the piece out still stuck in the engine. You can also slide out the piece that has the threads on it where the nut goes.

Grind the bolt head off (carefully) the other piece and then push that one out too.

[CJM]

FWIW lubing it up with a mixture of acetone and atf usually works well on other stuff so it should work well with the bolt. This mixture is the best penetrating fluid I have ever used and its like 5 bucks to make a gallon. Mix it 50/50

[jcs003]

also, heat around the bolt should help in two ways.

1. the aluminum expands much faster than the steel bolt.

2. the heat will have a catalyst effect on the penetratiing oil and also help it flow.

[06typeS]

Just had the same problem with my 01, i soaked it with pen fluid for over a week spraying it every couply of days and i couldn't get it to budge, even took an impact wrench to it.


Took it to my local shop and they took a torch and heated and then used some german product that cooled the bolt. Then they still had to beat the heck out of it.

Cost me 50 bucks but it was well worth it because i knew i wasn't going to be able to get it out.

[quad2xtreme]

After cutting from the frame, I put the frozen sleeve and the piece of bolt in a 20-ton press. I had 50-50 success. One broke loose and the other didn't. It was like it was welded. The rust totally fused the two pieces of metal together.

[trailrider894]

Believe it or not, Kalgard Chain Kote is how mine came out. lol I tried it all, and before i called a friend out with a plasma, i though WTH and sprayed some on and let it sit for a few minutes then after 10 hits the bolt was out.

[CJM]

Wonder if you used chain lube how it would go? Im sure any good chain lube would work wonders, its basically a very thin teflon grease that comes out of those cans and as we all know teflon is SUPER slippery.

Ive yet to yank mine out for fear its gonna be a bad like some others Ive read about. Yet others have no issue..strange.

To note: when you get the new bolt make dang sure you drill 3-4 holes in it in the body of the bolt crossways. Then get a grease fitting and a small set screw or cap screw. Tap each end for them and then you can grease the bolt anytime and it shouldnt seize. Another idea is to use permatex never seize lubricant. This stuff is impervious to water and is used when assembling things on bolts and such. It makes taking it apart super easy!

[06typeS]

Originally posted by CJM
Another idea is to use permatex never seize lubricant. This stuff is impervious to water and is used when assembling things on bolts and such. It makes taking it apart super easy!

this is what ill be doing

[jcs003]

that permatex antiseize is great. we use it at work on the stainless steel bolts for our big steam powered press. since we started useing the permatex antiseize we never had a seized bolt.

[grassman]

Current status.... still in there. Next up is air hammer and chain lube (why not). All I had time for today was a few blows of the sledge and more pb blaster...

[jcs003]

will the bolt spin with the impact?

[grassman]

It does not spin at all... I got a bigger gun I'm gonna use... the one in the pic isn't doing it.

[jcs003]

maybe a big breaker bar would get it moving. stand on it if possible.

[grassman]

10-4...

[jcs003]

Originally posted by grassman
10-4...

????:confused:

[grassman]

Sorry... I meant o.k.(10-4)... I guess Im too use to talking on my nextel. Ill def try the breaker bar.

[bherriman]

Originally posted by grassman
Sorry... I meant o.k.(10-4)... I guess Im too use to talking on my nextel. Ill def try the breaker bar.



Haha I'm the same way. I'm so used to talking on the company radio and CB.....10 dash

[CJM]

If you cant get it with a gun a breaker bar is a good idea. Dont stand on it-this will put undue stress on the nut/bolt and can cause you to strip it as now you also have downward force on the bolt at the end of an 18" or so bar.

Get a piece of pipe, say about 2 feet long and use it as a cheater bar. I have several I have around and use them all the time. I remove a friends brand new strut bolts on his F150 with it and 1/2 in breaker bar-he tried it and tightened it and snapped my socket-but we didnt damage the bolt..no downforce.

[grassman]

Today I got some quality time with my ex and a sledge hammer. I got the bolt loose using a breaker bar then began to hammer away...

[grassman]

No way to save the bolt....

[grassman]

Got it loose!!! Grinded the top of the bolt to get it to slide through since I mushroomed the end of it...

[grassman]

Ha Ha!!!! I win....

[grassman]

Time for new parts:D

[trailrider894]

Did you use chain lube?

[jcs003]

dont forget to clean the hell out the the bearing surfaces and such. i have used the "simple green" cleaner lately and it does a good job. it wont eat paint, corrode or oxidize anything. but, it smells terrible.

[2001400exrida]

damm, it looks like you hit your frame a couple times there. haha, oh well just paint over it and you will barely see the dents.

[grassman]

Yeah Ive got to do a lot of cleaning on it... I use simple green too. It works great and doesn't eat up the rubber either. No I didn't use chain lube. I forgot to bring it with me, I did this at a friends house. Yes I hit the hell out of my frame... I told you I went ape **** on that bolt:D . I'm prob gonna put some grip tape over it. Today I'm taking the swing arm to a machine shop to have the races press out since that's all that's left of the bearings. The needles poured out like little bb's. I tried to get them out hammering a socket through but I got nowhere, so its worth the $25 to get them out. I should have it back together by next weekend since I had to order a new bolt... Ill put up more pics of it...

[2001400exrida]

i was in the same boat about a month ago, however i was replacing the swingarm so i just cut it off!

that bolt was like 25 bucks for me! Also, there is a post on here or another forum about drilling that bolt and installing a grease fitting.

I did it to mine and it was really easy, now i can pump grease in from the end of the bolt and keep it nice and lubed in ther so the water doesn't make rust and bond to the mounts again.

[grassman]

I got a machine shop to get the races out of the swing arm and today I was able to get the new parts in. I used alot of grease when I pressed them back in...

[grassman]

Now I just gotta wait for the new bolt and nut to get here. I bought some anti-seize while I was at the machine shop so I wont have to go through this again...

[RATPACK Z400]

Next time you run into bearings that are stuck use freeze spray or if part fits in freezer, then bang it works every time the freeze spray you can get at walmart i think its to freeze warts off the skin. alway try to use cold rather then heat to get metal apart! bearing s/sleeves/ bolts .next time you need to change front wheel bearing put hub in freezer come out faster.then put new bearings in freezer to install .

[grassman]

I dont know if freezing would of helped... The guy at the shop said it was a pain in the a** for them... Ive froze other parts before but these were pretty much bonded together...

[CJM]

Freeze off, its a spray they sell in auto parts stores.

Or just buy some canned air and turn it up side down when you spray it.

If you didnt-next time freeze the bearings your gonna put in too, it makes it sooo much easier.

[grassman]

The new bearings went in with no problem at all... I just used some threaded rod and some washers. They slid right in. When I use to do the ball joints on my kodiak I would freeze them and heat the a-arm... they would drop right in.

[CJM]

Ah i see, you use it just to help them in, I thought they had a hard time going in by the way the pic looked and how you had to use the rod.

[quad2xtreme]

I bought the Honda tool for this. It is fantastic!

[grassman]

Originally posted by quad2xtreme
I bought the Honda tool for this. It is fantastic!

A tool for what? Removing the bearings?

[quad2xtreme]

Originally posted by grassman
A tool for what? Removing the bearings?

Removing and installing the swingarm bearings. There is a hardened piece that fits perfectly in the swingarm and has a recessed portion that fits all the way down through the center of the bearing. You can drive the bearing out in 15 seconds and tap one back in about the same. It also seats it at the appropriate distance.

There are so many Honda tools that make maintenance so much easier. There is a great one for removing the first front hub bearing too. It is always a pain to tap out that first bearing in the hub.

[trailrider894]

Originally posted by quad2xtreme
Removing and installing the swingarm bearings. There is a hardened piece that fits perfectly in the swingarm and has a recessed portion that fits all the way down through the center of the bearing. You can drive the bearing out in 15 seconds and tap one back in about the same. It also seats it at the appropriate distance.

There are so many Honda tools that make maintenance so much easier. There is a great one for removing the first front hub bearing too. It is always a pain to tap out that first bearing in the hub.


You mind telling us where your getting them?

[quad2xtreme]

Originally posted by trailrider894
You mind telling us where your getting them?

They are listed in the 400ex and 450r manual. I ordered them through Daryl at Bedford Motorsports in PA...near Breezewood Proving Grounds. Not all Honda dealerships will order them...they will tell you they can't but it is total BS. I ordered some through Yamaha of Troy too.

Most of the tools are reasonably priced too. Another great one is the one for installing the rear axle bearings.

/Jon

[grassman]

Hey Jon, thanks for the info. I live in Apex and I'm sure you've dealt with Power sports in Garner... they are a joke. I only go to Sanford Honda if I have to. Most of the time I get my parts of the web and do it myself. Ill get in touch next time I do some bearing work and try out your tools...:D

[CJM]

Got a part number and picture of this tool?

[eprovenzano]

I'm in the same boat. the crank in my 99 needs replaced, so I need to pull the engine. The swing arm bolt has never yes that's never been out... I started the soaking of the bolt today... I would have to assume that with enough penatrating fluid, and some heat in the right places... It "should" come out... with the assistance of a big sledge hammer.

[CJM]

Any word on the tool part #, the manual lists several different ones that could be it.

[quad2xtreme]

Originally posted by CJM
Any word on the tool part #, the manual lists several different ones that could be it.
sorry about that. I was in DC Thursday and Friday working and then Dunk came down to NC to ride this weekend. Totally forgot about it. I will grab the manual in the morning and post.

[CJM]

No worries, I was basically bringing it to the top.

Thanks for finding it, you will be making alot of people happy when you post the # :)

[quad2xtreme]

Honda Part # 07946-KA50000

[quad2xtreme]

another

[quad2xtreme]

one more...

[quad2xtreme]

one more...shows bearing installed

[quad2xtreme]

For the carrier bearings...for installing bearing only...

Part # 07749-0010000 (Driver)
Part # 07746-0010500 (Attachment)
Part # 07746-0040900 (pilot)

[quad2xtreme]

bearing on the tool...

[CJM]

Really appreciate it, thanks man :)

[quad2xtreme]

installed...the tool is flush with the carrier so you can't drive the bearing in too far.

[quad2xtreme]

I have a 4" X4" block that I slam the carrier down on to remove the 1st bearing. The weight of the tube between the bearings is enough to drive out the bearing. I've only had a cheap aftermarket carrier that this wouldn't work. I had to heat that carrier first then slam the end of the carrier on a block of wood.

When the bearing is right at the end of the carrier then you slam the carrier into the block of wood at an angle. 9 out of 10 times I will have the bearings out of a carrier before you have it heated with a torch...then you have a hot carrier. I then use the tool shown above to drive the bearing in. It goes in straight every time and no chance of messing up the seal or the bearing.

[grassman]

Got everything back together...

[grassman]

Called up 11 of my buddies and took it for a ride to test it out:D

[CJM]

Glad you got it up and running again.

[grassman]

Thanks for all the help and suggestions. It was supposed to be just repacking the exhaust and turned into that and a full maintenance, steering stem bearing, throttle cable, valve adjustment, clutch cable, pivot bolt and bearings, brake pads and a oil change. Every time I looked at it, it needed something else. Now everything is tight again and should be good for awhile... :)

[eprovenzano]

OK, I've been praying penetrating fluid on it for a few days, Put the air tools to it.... nothing, it will not turn... I knew it was going to be a pain the arse… but wow…

So plans are this weekend to take it to a garage with a proper torch. I need to get some heat into the case and pivot points and then use a 10 pound sledge and beat the crap out if it... I'm sure I'll end up ruining the bolt, but at this point I don't have much of a choice.

For those that had top cut the bolt. where did you cut it? On each side of the engine case, did you cut out the portion of the bolt you can see?

Just thinking ahead.

[grassman]

I had to use a breaker bar to get mine to spin. I had a friend help, he pushed down on the bar and wrench while I held the wrench/socket to the side of the bolt so it wouldn't slip off. It really took alot of force to make it move. Once it did I put an impact on it and got it to spin easier. I dont think there is really anyway to save the bolt. Put the wheeler on the side and go at it with a bfh.... youll get it.

[eprovenzano]

grassman I hope you're right. I'll keep soaking it down with PB Blaster for the rest of the week, and this weekend put some real heat to it. I did plan on using a breaker bar with some leverage to get it started... I hope I don't snap the bolt... but either way, its got to come out... I think its time to get the BFH hammer out.

[grassman]

It worked for me... Just remember to support the frame and the swinger when you put it on its side, and take your peg off on that side so you have more room to hit it. I tried to be lazy and do it with the peg and nerf on and thats how most of the damage happened to my frame. That bolt is surprisingly strong so dont be scared to use some real force...

[eprovenzano]

I tried everything... but I ended on using a torch to cut the bolt. I made two cuts to the collar and bolt on the right side, forced the engine to the right to make room on the left side and cut the bolt there. After I pulled the engine, I had to cut head of the bolt with a cut off wheel and drive it out from the outside of the frame. The swng arm bearing were pressed out using sockets on a large vise. So far so good... making progress...

I also used the cutoff grinder to clean up the bolt remains on the engine case. That's were its seized. What does the forum suggest to remove the remaining peice. I'm stuck... I really don't want to hammer on it too much for fear of cracking the case... I was thinking about drilling it out, or should I just take it to a machine shop and have them press it out.

Any ideas out there...

[trailrider894]

Originally posted by eprovenzano
I tried everything... but I ended on using a torch to cut the bolt. I made two cuts to the collar and bolt on the right side, forced the engine to the right to make room on the left side and cut the bolt there. After I pulled the engine, I had to cut head of the bolt with a cut off wheel and drive it out from the outside of the frame. The swng arm bearing were pressed out using sockets on a large vise. So far so good... making progress...

I also used the cutoff grinder to clean up the bolt remains on the engine case. That's were its seized. What does the forum suggest to remove the remaining peice. I'm stuck... I really don't want to hammer on it too much for fear of cracking the case... I was thinking about drilling it out, or should I just take it to a machine shop and have them press it out.

Any ideas out there...

Lets get some pics so we know EXACTLY what it is were are looking at so we can give good solid advice that won't pose a risk to your engine.

[eprovenzano]

Thanks for responding, I'm at work so let me try to clearify.

Currenty I have the engine on the work bench. What's left of the swingarm bolt is fused to the bushing on each end of the cash half where the bolt passes through the cases. I've cleaned up each end of the bolt with a cutoff wheel so its flush with the bushing.

I'll take some pics tonight after work.

[trailrider894]

Originally posted by eprovenzano
Thanks for responding, I'm at work so let me try to clearify.

Currenty I have the engine on the work bench. What's left of the swingarm bolt is fused to the bushing on each end of the cash half where the bolt passes through the cases. I've cleaned up each end of the bolt with a cutoff wheel so its flush with the bushing.

I'll take some pics tonight after work.

I think i understand, thats a tuff one... i'll wait to see pics before i advise any crazy manuvers...

[quad2xtreme]

Originally posted by eprovenzano
Thanks for responding, I'm at work so let me try to clearify.

Currenty I have the engine on the work bench. What's left of the swingarm bolt is fused to the bushing on each end of the cash half where the bolt passes through the cases. I've cleaned up each end of the bolt with a cutoff wheel so its flush with the bushing.

I'll take some pics tonight after work.

Those bushings are not replaceable Honda parts so don't booger them. I've heard of a few people having replacements machined by a shop though.

I definitely think you could sit the engine on its side and properly support and use a hydraulic press to get the bolt out. From the sounds of where you are right now, it seems like your best option. Hopefully you haven't "welded" the two types of metal together.

[eprovenzano]

Originally posted by quad2xtreme
Hopefully you haven't "welded" the two types of metal together.

Thats my concern I'm thinking of just going to a machinist with access to a press. I'm hoping a press with a little heat after multiple applications of blaster will work.

[CJM]

Press would be best, but you can try beating on it if you want.

Pray you didnt weld them together as someone else mentioned tho.

good luck-

[eprovenzano]

I just spoke to a machinist with a hydraulic press. He knew exactly what I was talking about. He said with a little heat and the press he'll get the bolt out of there.

Maybe there's a light at the end of this tunnel. :) Or is it an oncoming train?

[eprovenzano]

I just spoke to the machinist working on getting the bolt out of the engine... He's had the engine in his hydraulic press for three days, spraying it with free all and tightening it down a little at a time. He thought he was going to have to set the drill press and drill it out.... He sprayed it a little more, cranked it down a little more and was going to start setting up the drill press, when POW... he said it sounded like a .22 went off.. The bolt is free.... YEA its free....

I now can start the bottom end rebuild. I guess I know what I'm doing this weekend..

[quad2xtreme]

glad to hear it.

When one of mine got stuck like that, I was trying to figure out how to design a press that would work with the engine and swingarm still in place.

[CJM]

Im wondering if there isnt some way to install a gear puller on the end of the bolt if you keep one of the nuts on.

[grassman]

Originally posted by eprovenzano
The bolt is free.... YEA its free....

I now can start the bottom end rebuild. I guess I know what I'm doing this weekend..
That's awesome... Im real happy mine wasn't that bad off... remember, use anti seize on that bolt so you wont have to do this again... I used a ton on mine:D

[69zandar]

The only way we could get mine out was a 4" grinder with a cut off wheel and had to cut it out, careful of the cases and swingarm. Its a *****!!

[quad2xtreme]

sawzall is the easiest way to make the two cuts on each side of the engine cases. Then you grind the head off the bolt being careful not to grind the frame. Then you lift the engine up enough to slide both pieces of the swingarm bolt in towards the middle.

The easiest way to tackle all this is to remove the shock, linkage, and subframe. It allows you to lift the quad really high and maneuver the swingarm into different positions while getting a sawzall in there.

[82toyota]

wow that is crazy just to get bolt out glad mind was easy to get out.........



...........that what she said.......lol

[69zandar]

I found that the sleeves for the bolt were too hard for a sawzall, I burned up about 10 blades to even get half way. The cutoff wheel made quick work of it.

[quad2xtreme]

Originally posted by 69zandar
I found that the sleeves for the bolt were too hard for a sawzall, I burned up about 10 blades to even get half way. The cutoff wheel made quick work of it.

You must be using the wrong blade. I've gone through at least 2 sets of bolts and sleeves with the same blade.

[69zandar]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by quad2xtreme
You must be using the wrong blade. I've gone through at least 2 sets of bolts and sleeves with the same blade. [
/QUOTE] I must have been?

[eprovenzano]

I had the same problem. The bolt was laughing at the blades, that's why I used a torch...

I now have the engine on my bench with the cases split so I can replace the crank. While its apart, I'm taking the time to clean up the engine case where the swingarm bolt passes though.I will not go through this headache again... :)