old man harescrambles

[anderson3064]

whats going on everyone, i have searched high and low on alot of forums, but still not getting clear answers. so now I post.
I am 40 and I'm gonna run some hare scrambles this summer. i have read about suspension and tires and handguards and smoth is faster and just finish the race and etc,etc,etc.. I am currently quadless (huge bummer) but nevertheless i am going to buy a quad as soon as I can sell my custom rims and rc stuff, so not owning a quad, do i go for a $1500-$2000 400ex or go for the $2500 450's. i have owned and loved my 03 400ex. but DIVORCE got it. just scratchin my head here, or should i even look at completely hopped up 300ex's sen a few that got it all for around $2000. thanks all and sorry for asking what i am sure is a loaded question.

[trailrider894]

Originally posted by anderson3064
whats going on everyone, i have searched high and low on alot of forums, but still not getting clear answers. so now I post.
I am 40 and I'm gonna run some hare scrambles this summer. i have read about suspension and tires and handguards and smoth is faster and just finish the race and etc,etc,etc.. I am currently quadless (huge bummer) but nevertheless i am going to buy a quad as soon as I can sell my custom rims and rc stuff, so not owning a quad, do i go for a $1500-$2000 400ex or go for the $2500 450's. i have owned and loved my 03 400ex. but DIVORCE got it. just scratchin my head here, or should i even look at completely hopped up 300ex's sen a few that got it all for around $2000. thanks all and sorry for asking what i am sure is a loaded question.

400ex all the way man!!! Best quad ever.. If you take of it she'll NEVER and i mean NEVER leave you stranded.

[trailrider894]

Theres a reasons Honda has never changed the EX motor... Because its perfect.

[anderson3064]

I was hoping i would hear that, it was exactly what i was thinking, i rode my brother n laws 450 and wasnt impressed at all for the money he spent. but none the less i had to ask because ive been noticing quite a few 450's on craigslist going for very cheap. soem even cheaper than the 400ex. hope i can find a basketcase to rebuild, that way know what i got.

[trailrider894]

Originally posted by anderson3064
I was hoping i would hear that, it was exactly what i was thinking, i rode my brother n laws 450 and wasnt impressed at all for the money he spent. but none the less i had to ask because ive been noticing quite a few 450's on craigslist going for very cheap. soem even cheaper than the 400ex. hope i can find a basketcase to rebuild, that way know what i got.

After a 400ex you'll never look back. Possibilities are endless. If you need any help with anything, PM me or just ask.

[anderson3064]

Originally posted by trailrider894
After a 400ex you'll never look back. Possibilities are endless. If you need any help with anything, PM me or just ask.
after reading all these post and others i may need counselling. i lost a "03" 400ex, "01" 426 ex, and a pretty cool and fun "01" 300ex in divorce. but hey at least the judge let me keep the custom wheels that dont fit my ride, haha

[honda400ex2003]

bummer...


the hundy is the best machine out imo to go with trails info. there are many different ways to set them up to fit you and your style. heck you could probably find some hubs to use those custom rims from whatever they were for, just need the pattern which im sure you have. ;)


good times on exriders!

steve

[trailrider894]

Originally posted by anderson3064
after reading all these post and others i may need counselling. i lost a "03" 400ex, "01" 426 ex, and a pretty cool and fun "01" 300ex in divorce. but hey at least the judge let me keep the custom wheels that dont fit my ride, haha

lol ouch... man.... Darn lady took you for everything didn't she.... Any tips on marriage to help not let that happen to me when the date roles around?

[honda400ex2003]

http://memimage.cardomain.com/ride_images/2/4572/4181/23929590001_large.jpg


sweetness ^^^^


:eek2: :eek2: :blah: :blah:

rider just run for the hills~ better yet ride there.

steve

[anderson3064]

Originally posted by trailrider894
lol ouch... man.... Darn lady took you for everything didn't she.... Any tips on marriage to help not let that happen to me when the date roles around?
sell everything to a trusted friend for very little money. then when D-day is final, go back and buy your quads back off him. Make sure it is a friend you trust......there is a possibility that the judge could take the money you made in the sell so sell them cheap.. see where im going with this..

[anderson3064]

Originally posted by honda400ex2003
bummer...


the hundy is the best machine out imo to go with trails info. there are many different ways to set them up to fit you and your style. heck you could probably find some hubs to use those custom rims from whatever they were for, just need the pattern which im sure you have. ;)


good times on exriders!

steve
nah i dont want the wheels, i want my 400ex back, or another. got these things listed on ebay and craigslist but nothings selling right now, everyone is broke including me

[honda400ex2003]

lol just lightening the mood a bit. divorse is not a fun thing to go through thats for sure.

i hope to never do it thats for sure and would never wish it on my worst enemy.

you will get a nice 400 again though. there are many around. then life will get better for sure.

steve

[anderson3064]

Originally posted by honda400ex2003
lol just lightening the mood a bit. divorse is not a fun thing to go through thats for sure.

i hope to never do it thats for sure and would never wish it on my worst enemy.

you will get a nice 400 again though. there are many around. then life will get better for sure.

steve
life is good brother, it could be better with me havin a quad again. i am a very impatient person, so when i get my mind in gear on something i go,go,go till i got whatever the task was accomplished, and that task at hand is selling wheels and RC stuff to get a quad and start racing some hare scrambles.... hey i got my clymers book still, all the tools, my riding boots, helmet, pants and shirt. haha just no freakin 400ex...LMAO

[honda400ex2003]

good to hear

what kind of rc did you run? they are quite fun also and just about as expensive as atvs! as im sure you know :p

sounds like you are all set though! steve

[anderson3064]

Originally posted by anderson3064
life is good brother, it could be better with me havin a quad again. i am a very impatient person, so when i get my mind in gear on something i go,go,go till i got whatever the task was accomplished, and that task at hand is selling wheels and RC stuff to get a quad and start racing some hare scrambles.... hey i got my clymers book still, all the tools, my riding boots, helmet, pants and shirt. haha just no freakin 400ex...LMAO
and whats really gettin me is that I have $2500 wheels and tires i dont need, and $2000 in RC trucks i dont want and cant get one single person in the tri state area to trade all of it for there $1200-$1500 quad. its like having something just sittin there just barely out of reach taunting me...GGRRRR

[anderson3064]

Originally posted by honda400ex2003
good to hear

what kind of rc did you run? they are quite fun also and just about as expensive as atvs! as im sure you know :p

sounds like you are all set though! steve
one is a revo with a big block engine, and the other is a 8th scale race buggy...and yes i have alot of money in these things so im gonna eat it big for a quad but im good with that. riding meant everything to me and my son and we gotta get that back...

[honda400ex2003]

very cool! sounds like you have quite some money tied up in them too. I have t-maxx and used to have an rc10gt but get that to my neighbor this fall. it is amazing the money that can be spent on tires, wheels, and any other aftermarket thing you can think of for those trucks.

steve

[anderson3064]

Originally posted by honda400ex2003
very cool! sounds like you have quite some money tied up in them too. I have t-maxx and used to have an rc10gt but get that to my neighbor this fall. it is amazing the money that can be spent on tires, wheels, and any other aftermarket thing you can think of for those trucks.

steve
yep i just got rid of my t-maxx before christmas,,,,yeah my revo has a ton of hop-ups and the buggy is a factory racer so it doesnt need hop-ups.

[99400esex]

400ex all the way. Best all around sport quad

[anderson3064]

Originally posted by 99400esex
400ex all the way. Best all around sport quad

yes i love the 400ex and I am about 90% sure thats what im getting. but for like 500-800 dollars more i could have a 450. that was the original question or what i was trying to get at. ( i think) heck i have no idea why i started this thread, If and when i got 2g's in my hand i will see whats out there. just gonna be hard to turn down a 450 for the same price as a 400ex. but who knows...i did find a 300ex that was loaded, houser a-arms, lonestar swinger, g force axle. hole shots, this thing was loaded and was going for 2g's

[3400ben]

What series are you planning on running? I run d15 and maxc series.

[supertrooper90]

the 450 is gonna need more maintenance. most of the 450 guys need to tear down the motors every race season. If I remember right, the 04 and 05 450r's had crank bearing problems? I could be wrong. the 400 will run forever and not really need any messing with other than regular maintenance. I weighed my options and decided to do a 416 and some suspension work and couldn't be happier with my decision. Good luck

[99400esex]

Originally posted by supertrooper90
the 450 is gonna need more maintenance. most of the 450 guys need to tear down the motors every race season. If I remember right, the 04 and 05 450r's had crank bearing problems? I could be wrong. the 400 will run forever and not really need any messing with other than regular maintenance. I weighed my options and decided to do a 416 and some suspension work and couldn't be happier with my decision. Good luck

Thats pretty much what I was getting at with my post. Youll have more reliability with a EX over a 450r. Not saying the 450's are garbage or anything because there definitely not, the EX motor and quad itself is bulletproof.

[MtnEX]

Originally posted by anderson3064
yes i love the 400ex and I am about 90% sure thats what im getting. but for like 500-800 dollars more i could have a 450. that was the original question or what i was trying to get at. ( i think) heck i have no idea why i started this thread, If and when i got 2g's in my hand i will see whats out there. just gonna be hard to turn down a 450 for the same price as a 400ex. but who knows...i did find a 300ex that was loaded, houser a-arms, lonestar swinger, g force axle. hole shots, this thing was loaded and was going for 2g's

Well, it depends on what class options you have in your series... and rather or not you want to just have fun... or actually want to be competitive.

If you are just going to hit some for fun it don't matter... buy or build a good-good trail bike. 400EX or Z400.

However, if you want to be competitive... well like in my local series a 40 year old guy with a 400EX would be making it a lot harder on himself to be competitive than it has to be.

If you run the senior class, you're competing with guys who are on 450's and more.

A/B/C classes, same thing but also full of younger guys.

400cc class... sounds good but it is 15+ and any skill level.

So I think you can see what I mean about it depending on what your class options are and how serious you are.


The only good things I can think of about the 400EX for this is... it turns well... the engine is very forgiving of riding mistakes... and on really excellent suspension the whole package can be a LOT LESS fatiguing to ride than more responsive 450's... and the whole bike is just brutally simple in design.

[2001400exrida]

Originally posted by supertrooper90
the 450 is gonna need more maintenance. most of the 450 guys need to tear down the motors every race season. If I remember right, the 04 and 05 450r's had crank bearing problems? I could be wrong. the 400 will run forever and not really need any messing with other than regular maintenance. I weighed my options and decided to do a 416 and some suspension work and couldn't be happier with my decision. Good luck

if you race the 400ex or a the 450r you're gonna end up doing some rebuilds on either one of them.

i think most of the time the reason the 450r has to be built more is because it is actually being raced by somebody where most of the ex's don't end up on the racetrack so they last longer.

if you have a 450r for trails, i would venture to say it would last as long as a 400ex motor in the same riding conditions.

[99400esex]

Originally posted by 2001400exrida
if you race the 400ex or a the 450r you're gonna end up doing some rebuilds on either one of them.

i think most of the time the reason the 450r has to be built more is because it is actually being raced by somebody where most of the ex's don't end up on the racetrack so they last longer.

if you have a 450r for trails, i would venture to say it would last as long as a 400ex motor in the same riding conditions.

Nahhh that's not true. The 450r still requires more maintenance, especially in adjusting valves and rebuilding top end.

[trailrider894]

Originally posted by 99400esex
Nahhh that's not true. The 450r still requires more maintenance, especially in adjusting valves and rebuilding top end.

x2

Don't fight with this guy about it though, he is a troll who can't have anybody disagree with his opinion. Just forget about him.

[99400esex]

Yea I'm just stating fact. I know hell fight me til death but doesn't matter to me. Btw when I had my 450 (yfz) the top end was rebuilt twice in one year. I never raced it but rode it hard in the woods. Not to mention they get too hot for my liking. Good quads but too much maintenance imo.

[trailrider894]

Originally posted by 99400esex
Yea I'm just stating fact. I know hell fight me til death but doesn't matter to me. Btw when I had my 450 (yfz) the top end was rebuilt twice in one year. I never raced it but rode it hard in the woods. Not to mention they get too hot for my liking. Good quads but too much maintenance imo.

I had a CRF450r for a few months and mine went out twice. I rode that thing HARD!!! Lets just say i don't have it anymore for that reason!!

[slightlybent47]

I’ll put in my 2 cense in, I have a 416 with 121/2 compression, cam 450 carb and a p&p. and I have been racing mx with it for 3 years plus practice every week and I practice like I race. I have to ride the piss out of it to keep up with the 450’s but I can beet some of them a lot of the time. The point is I’m riding the piss out of it and it has held up great and has given me no problems at all. I keep that thing pined most of the time and she just keeps on digging in and gets it done.
I cant compare it to the 450 because I don’t have enough experience on one to be qualified to give a review. But the ex will hold up to almost anything you can throw at it.

[anderson3064]

the ex guys are saying ex the r guys are saying r......jeeesh. honestly did honda really build a motor thats that much trouble following the bulletproff 400ex motor...Ilove honda and would only consider 1 or 2 quads not made by honda. so needless to say I got the money just have to wait till march to buy. I am trading in my charger for a truck. no since in owning a quad i cant take anywhere. honestly would you own a $2000 ex over a $2500 450r if they both were bone stock. i am by no means defending either quad. and I knew this was a loaded question.

[MtnEX]

Both stock a 400 will be a lot less maintenance. No radiator, hoses, water pump, and less frequent valve adjustments and oil changes.

If you are racing them, both will be rebuilt often... 400EX top end due to heat and wear... 450R, top end and bottom end, due to RPM and more.

[2001400exrida]

as far as heat, you're gonna get more heat from the 400ex, but that's fine, you can supplement that with fans or bigger oil coolers (mostly only needed if you've done a big bore high compression).

i own 2 400ex's, so i am recommending that you get a 400ex, but i've noticed that somebody said there're more heat on the 450, that's definetly not true, the ex are air cooled so they heat up, don't mistake that. the 450's are liquid cooled so they will not get above a certain temp as long as the cooling system and fan is working properly.

450's have a higher compression stock so yeah they will run harder, but i can think of several that i know of that are still bone stock besides pipes and they still run just fine after 5 years.

if you get a honda, be it a 400ex or a 450r, you're gonna get reliability with it! that being said the 400ex is much easier to service because u don't have the radiator crap to go bad or crack or break.

if you're looking for something that will hang with your competitors in the hare scrambles that won't require a big bore or anything, then get the 450, that thing is setup with suspension and power already so you're saving money.

btw, do you ever go to badlands?

[3400ben]

It don't Matter! You can win on both if you are good enough rider!!!!

[2001400exrida]

Originally posted by 3400ben
It don't Matter! You can win on both if you are good enough rider!!!!

true but the same rider will be faster with a 450r without having to get mods done.

the 450r comes straight to ya ready to race especially hare scramble., it has the decent front shocks, plenty of power, little wider and it makes a difference!

the ex is limited until you do some mods. stock ex front shocks are horrible, the thing dives in the corners instead of whipping around like it needs too. also, stock ex is pretty weak, again you need to do mods to make it compete.

[smoke tractor1]

The 400ex is a super machine and probably the best all around bike since the 250r possiblilties are only limited to wallet,But just in case you were a die hard 300 guy there are alot of really nice school boy class race quads floating around on this site just an option,I have went to 450r's but mainly just race anymore and it's more of a race only oriented bike but have done extremely well for years racing the 400 against 450's and with evolution of the 450 revalves it makes suspension that much more affordable!Good luck with your racing venture ,ride red and you can't go wrong!Still have an 88' 250R and a 99' 440ex and 00' 480ex along with a 05' and 06' 450r and would sell the 450's if I had to pick, probably be divorced again on second thought!

[anderson3064]

Originally posted by 3400ben
What series are you planning on running? I run d15 and maxc series.
thats what series i plan on running. like i said im new to the hare scramble thing but i cant wait...

[anderson3064]

Originally posted by 2001400exrida
as far as heat, you're gonna get more heat from the 400ex, but that's fine, you can supplement that with fans or bigger oil coolers (mostly only needed if you've done a big bore high compression).

i own 2 400ex's, so i am recommending that you get a 400ex, but i've noticed that somebody said there're more heat on the 450, that's definetly not true, the ex are air cooled so they heat up, don't mistake that. the 450's are liquid cooled so they will not get above a certain temp as long as the cooling system and fan is working properly.

450's have a higher compression stock so yeah they will run harder, but i can think of several that i know of that are still bone stock besides pipes and they still run just fine after 5 years.

if you get a honda, be it a 400ex or a 450r, you're gonna get reliability with it! that being said the 400ex is much easier to service because u don't have the radiator crap to go bad or crack or break.

if you're looking for something that will hang with your competitors in the hare scrambles that won't require a big bore or anything, then get the 450, that thing is setup with suspension and power already so you're saving money.

btw, do you ever go to badlands?
i love the badlands....i lost 2 400ex"S in a divorce so havent been in 2 years. really thought i was done riding but i cant get it out of my system. I knew there was a reason i kept my clymers books for the 400ex, and my boots and gloves and goggles..LMAO

[anderson3064]

Originally posted by 2001400exrida
true but the same rider will be faster with a 450r without having to get mods done.

the 450r comes straight to ya ready to race especially hare scramble., it has the decent front shocks, plenty of power, little wider and it makes a difference!

the ex is limited until you do some mods. stock ex front shocks are horrible, the thing dives in the corners instead of whipping around like it needs too. also, stock ex is pretty weak, again you need to do mods to make it compete.
i getting the R. simply because i do not want to dump more money into the suspension which I know sucks. only way i will get a 400ex when spring gets here is if an awesome deal is floating buy. if i find a 400ex with the suspension already fixed and its less than the R then its sold. god i can not wait.

[2001400exrida]

haha you've had it in ya the whole time.

If you get a quad over the winter, we will have to do some rides. I'll be doing harescrambles.

[anderson3064]

Originally posted by 2001400exrida
haha you've had it in ya the whole time.

If you get a quad over the winter, we will have to do some rides. I'll be doing harescrambles.
ill be gettin one in ablut 6-8 weeks. im trading in my charger for a truck...mo sense in owning a quad i cant take anywhere... oh and i hope know one ever has to feel the pain i feel when you see your ex's new BF riding what use to be your quad, i can fully understand what makes a man homicidal. none the less i like my freedom and there are many quads for sell. heres a pic of me and my son last time we rode our quads. spring "08" thats my "03" 400ex. only pic i got of it..

[3400ben]

Originally posted by anderson3064
thats what series i plan on running. like i said im new to the hare scramble thing but i cant wait...


I'm not hard to find. I will be the only yellow 400ex. If you see me at the line say hi! I won the b 24+ class this year. Good luck and have fun.

[slightlybent47]

As far as the motor goes, I’m just guessing here, I think the deference between the ex and the 450 is the 450 is built as a higher performing 4 stroke, in that unlike the ex in stock form the ex is tuned down so the reliability is very good. But the 450 motor has more performance built in from the factory, i.e. more porting, higher compression, longer stroke, more aggressive cam, closer tolerances, higher rpm and so on.
For that reason the reliability is going to go down but performance is going up.
The other deference between the two is the frame, the ex is slightly smaller then the 450 so a tall rider may fit more comfortably on the 450. I don’t know how close that is to truth but it would seem logical.

[spark plug]

.02$ Been beatin the crap outa my 2000 440 for 11 years.Moab 3 times,dunes 6 or 7 times a year,trails 10-12 times a year and ice in the winter.Heads starting to leak a little, a few batteries and a flat tire on the trail. Best $ ever spent on a quad!(sorry, my main rides now are Suzuki LT 2 strokes.)

[MtnEX]

I think it is different strokes for different folks. When it comes to XC racing I find the biggest part of it is about suspension, stabilizer, being in shape, being smart, and being lucky.

IT IS A LONG RACE!


I switch often between my 400 and 450... and sometimes not often enough. So I certainly have my frustrations with both of them due to that.

I find that now I really push my 400 past it's limits. I need to do a big bore kit on it and redo the suspension.

I push the 400 and most of the time the 450 pushes me. The two of them are not in the same league.

There is no way in hell "I" could get on my 400 and keep up with "me" on my 450 in the short term in the woods. It just don't have what it takes to go toe to toe corner to corner because of the difference in the acceleration rate.

It is not the top speed, it is the quickness from corner to corner and the higher average speed I can carry. The 450 works me out.


But like I say, it is a long race. And when it is muddy or really technical I see the 400's at the track shining when the extra power and acceleration of the 450 is of no benefit.

And I repeat, it is a long race. Over a period of 1.5 to 2 hours, the elapsed time between would probably start to close back in... provided I ran smart early and just stayed steady, and was able to make the passes I needed to later in the race.

This is because the 400 has less power and acceleration and is not capable of working me as hard... and because of the factor I am not in the physical shape I want to be in.

On the 450, the only limit I have been able to find on it is the limits of my suspension. It will go faster than you can hold it in the course with the suspension, so work is well in order there. So I find myself running right on the limits of the suspension, and as a result I quickly find the limits of my current physical ability, so work is well in order there too.


But to finalize and moralize the story here... yes I could big bore my EX and throw a bunch of money at suspension and give them fits... but the reality of this is your whole class is a pretty big pool... and chances are good there will be a 450 there on good suspension with a pilot that is in good enough shape to hold onto it... And it is hard to pass, and you can sometimes really get way held back and too far behind when you start to make your comeback later in the race because you have just been smooth and steady the whole way.

So the logic works on paper, but in reality there are a lot of variables to get in your way of being competitive overall.

I've had my 450 out to the track for multiple practice runs, and even on it, it is hard to recover from a bad start or lackluster achievement in the early laps. And it is hard to come back from your mistakes, the mistakes of others, and those you can't get around or those that can't or won't get out of your way while you are trying.

I was out there with a lot of guys in much better shape who were on much better equipment. And they couldn't reel my totally exhausted and limited effort back in when I got a good start and put a hurting on them where I could in the real tight woods. So far, I have literally only had 2 quads reel me in and get by me. And it was only because I was exhausted at the end and feeling guilty, so I pulled off an let them go. Got stuck in the process and was amazed the next guy never even got close... and come to find out at the end, this pair was 10 years younger than me and had way better equipment... and most importantly were front runners in their points classes for 2010.

And had I wanted to be an ***, they could not have gotten around me. There was only one more chance left without me pulling off and letting them go... and I would have came into that final stretch and final hill climb first... and I already had the fastest line pinned down and it was a section where I was fast and I had the advantage of being able to take the straightest line to approach the best line going up the hill because I was narrow enough to take that faster line pinned.

I will get off my soap box now, because if you are a novel reader you have surely gotten the point loud and clear.

[3400ben]

Originally posted by 2001400exrida
true but the same rider will be faster with a 450r without having to get mods done.

the 450r comes straight to ya ready to race especially hare scramble., it has the decent front shocks, plenty of power, little wider and it makes a difference!

the ex is limited until you do some mods. stock ex front shocks are horrible, the thing dives in the corners instead of whipping around like it needs too. also, stock ex is pretty weak, again you need to do mods to make it compete.

You hit the nail on the head!

[ohiomotoxer]

Here is what I learned about OG (old guys) racing in the GNCC ranks.

OG's are FAST !! Dave Simmons takes the morning class overall in the 50+ class.

IF you want to race casually get the 400EX, it is solid as a brick you know what. ESPECIALLY if the tracks you run on are tight, the 400 will almost equal a 450 in the tight stuff.

IF you have that spark in you knowing full well that you want to win the class, get a 450.

WHY? The 400 and even the 440 ( I had a 440) WILL get out motored per lap eventually, not only because of sheer overall speed the 450's have but because the 400 is AIR COOLED and WILL lose power over a 2 hour race, especially if there is mud.

Hey there is nothing wrong with the 400, it is a fantastic machine if set up proper. BUT be realistic.....a warmly breathed on 450 (cam, hi comp piston, a recluse, some flow work will romp any 440) I can attest to this as I used to work on Brian Wolfs Honda and NO 440 could run with that bike.

Only you can chose.






Originally posted by anderson3064
whats going on everyone, i have searched high and low on alot of forums, but still not getting clear answers. so now I post.
I am 40 and I'm gonna run some hare scrambles this summer.

[MtnEX]

Originally posted by ohiomotoxer
Here is what I learned about OG (old guys) racing in the GNCC ranks.

OG's are FAST !! Dave Simmons takes the morning class overall in the 50+ class.

IF you want to race casually get the 400EX, it is solid as a brick you know what. ESPECIALLY if the tracks you run on are tight, the 400 will almost equal a 450 in the tight stuff.

IF you have that spark in you knowing full well that you want to win the class, get a 450.

WHY? The 400 and even the 440 ( I had a 440) WILL get out motored per lap eventually, not only because of sheer overall speed the 450's have but because the 400 is AIR COOLED and WILL lose power over a 2 hour race, especially if there is mud.

Hey there is nothing wrong with the 400, it is a fantastic machine if set up proper. BUT be realistic.....a warmly breathed on 450 (cam, hi comp piston, a recluse, some flow work will romp any 440) I can attest to this as I used to work on Brian Wolfs Honda and NO 440 could run with that bike.

Only you can chose.

I totally agree...

Super Dave gives us all hope as we age.


And only 400EX owners that also have a 450 can seem to accept that a fully tricked out 400 is only close to a stock 450.

Nothing at all wrong with that... I still have mine... great bike.

[anderson3064]

well i think this thread has served its purpose. I will get the R. and if i decide i want a 400ex then they are all day on CL for 1500....thanks all. and Mtnex that was some good stuff man.

[slightlybent47]

Yea the ex is great but if I knew then what I know now I would have went for a 450.
I wasn’t planning to race the ex, it just worked out that way. My next one will be a 450 for mx riding.

[400man]

I have raced about 7 or 8 XC races, most of em on my 250r and a few on my 400ex I have now. the one thing that got on my nerves the most is when I see some guy pulled over on the side of the track thats all worn out and tired setting on his built to the gills 450. I just think its kinda pointless to spend all that money upgrading a bike when you dont have the endurance and ability to even finish the race. myself im not really in the best of shape, I get arm pump within the first couple miles, then it goes and comes through out the race, but my main goal at every race I go to is to FINISH.

Like for example, I raced at the titan gncc this year in tennessee. I was about mid pack in the holeshot (stock 400 motor :eek2: lol ), at about the 3rd turn the track went down into a bottleneck into a creek bottom. I got tagged and spun around right in the creekbed and flipped over. it knocked the front tire off the bead and plus I had to set and wait untill about 5 or 6 more rows of riders took off and got through that section of the track untill I could get my bike out of there. I thought about just quitting and giving up cause I was DEAD LAST, but then I told myself "I didnt pay 60 some dollars for nothing" and rode back to my truck, aired up my front tire and popped it back on the bead then hauled *** back to the track. I was at least 5 or 6 mins behind the last row that took off. I bet it wasnt even 1 mile before I seen somebody on their 450 that was pulled over on the side of the trail. I think I passed by 7 or 8 people before I caught up to anybody that was actually racing. I ended up placing 10th out of 19 riders in the 20+ C class, and 130th out of a little over 200 riders in the overall..........and this is coming from DEAD LAST in the start with a few minutes behind.
heres a few pics of me from that race,
http://www.photoreflect.com/store/Orderpage.aspx?pi=03VE011P010216&po=216&pc=330
http://www.photoreflect.com/store/Orderpage.aspx?pi=03VE011P020176&po=176&pc=361
http://www.photoreflect.com/store/Orderpage.aspx?pi=03VE011P020349&po=349&pc=361

[MtnEX]

Originally posted by anderson3064
well i think this thread has served its purpose. I will get the R. and if i decide i want a 400ex then they are all day on CL for 1500....thanks all. and Mtnex that was some good stuff man.

Glad you were able to get something from all that and appreciate it.

I know it is very very hard to get clean unbiased info on these sorts of topics.

So I try my best to give it now that I own both classes of machine.

I like them both for what they are.

[the Z Man]

You will be happy with the 450r, I have 5 Championships out of seven years all on 2 different 450r's I think the 04's are the best, motors were all stock except for a stage 1 cam....

[MtnEX]

Nice...

What makes the '04 your favorite?

And what are you using for suspension and arms, etc?

[the Z Man]

I think the 04's did not have the crank bearing problems, once I changed the counter sprocket to a 13 it seemed to fix the gearing issues, if its dialed in I am almost guaranteed the whole shot or top 3 at least, no depending on the battery, just for me it all seems to work.
I am running LoneStar +1/2 max ground clearance a-arms with Hiper 4-1 offset, Axis long travel all 3, rebuilt by Jett Suspension, I run the 06 swinger and gt thunder link on back.:eek2:

[MtnEX]

Interesting... cause they changed something 06+ that I remember noticing when looking at an 06. They axed something off to do with the oil. Don't remember if it was a tank or cooler... been too long. But one of them was gone in '06. Wonder if that is related?


Looks like you still have a bit of a buck in the rear end??? LOL. But it has to be better than it was stock. Very un-nerving when one goes rear high like that. But you have the front end to soak that up and be OK. My 400EX would have probably bucked me off right there. It's pretty bad.

[spark plug]

Opinions on these a arms??????? Why so much camber?
http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q30/quadster250/450rarms.jpg

[anderson3064]

ok so I split the difference. I got a 426ex. its got renthal bars, FMF powercore, bark busters and decent plastic. thanks to all whol helped me out. I did plan on getting a 450r but i picked up the 426ex for some $1000 custom rims and $400 cash. that was too hard to turn down.. i will get a pic on here asap. i gotta resize it..

[trailrider894]

Originally posted by spark plug
Opinions on these a arms??????? Why so much camber?
http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q30/quadster250/450rarms.jpg

I've never seen a-arms like that.... they are weird... whats the point?

[slightlybent47]

Kool man………glad to see you made a decision.
Sounds like you found a great deal and I think for the money you’ll be satisfied.
The trouble with a tricked out top of the line 450 is sadly most of us don’t have the talent to ride it to its potential anyway.lol
For what you paid for it if you find you are out riding the bike you can always up grade later.
Now lets see the pics!

[anderson3064]

"01" 426ex

[trailrider894]

Originally posted by anderson3064
"01" 426ex

SWEET!!! Nice to see some more bugeyes on here...

[2001400exrida]

nice quad. i just recently picked up a 2001 416 and i love it. i put 450r front shocks and 450r axle and swingarm and it's tits!

you will love that thing, even though it's not the fastest thing out there it will handle the trails good with some small upgrades.

[trailrider894]

Originally posted by 2001400exrida
nice quad. i just recently picked up a 2001 416 and i love it. i put 450r front shocks and 450r axle and swingarm and it's tits!

Is that your first EX?

[2001400exrida]

no, i have a 2007 that i got 2 years ago.

i picked up the 2001 for 1000 bucks, the rear carrier was shot so i bought the 450r swingarm, axle, brakes, front shocks for around $500 total, (the rear end with swingarm and brakes and everything was $305 and the shocks were $164).

the 2007 is my stocker trail quad, it's clean

the 2001 is going to be my harescramble quad, the motor runs strong but it's got a head leak and the valve seals are shot.

[trailrider894]

Originally posted by 2001400exrida
no, i have a 2007 that i got 2 years ago.

i picked up the 2001 for 1000 bucks, the rear carrier was shot so i bought the 450r swingarm, axle, brakes, front shocks for around $500 total, (the rear end with swingarm and brakes and everything was $305 and the shocks were $164).

the 2007 is my stocker trail quad, it's clean

the 2001 is going to be my harescramble quad, the motor runs strong but it's got a head leak and the valve seals are shot.

Kinda wish i could get another one myself... make the next one a GNCC Style one.

[2001400exrida]

yeah i'm going for a low budget harescramble quad. fast but simple.

[trailrider894]

Originally posted by 2001400exrida
yeah i'm going for a low budget harescramble quad. fast but simple.

very understandable. Simple means less money and less to replace. lol

[anderson3064]

not sure what im gonna do first. what i do know is that im not gonna sit on my butt and wait to buy stuff. im gonna race and learn while i purchase stuff i need, I really dont give .02c's about winning right now. just wanna have fun and meet other riders. i am thinking of running some of the IMXC races this year. so i know everyone preaches suspension, suspension, suspension. so in your honest opinion, should i get steering stabalizer first or shocks.

[3400ben]

Originally posted by anderson3064
not sure what im gonna do first. what i do know is that im not gonna sit on my butt and wait to buy stuff. im gonna race and learn while i purchase stuff i need, I really dont give .02c's about winning right now. just wanna have fun and meet other riders. i am thinking of running some of the IMXC races this year. so i know everyone preaches suspension, suspension, suspension. so in your honest opinion, should i get steering stabalizer first or shocks.

Shocks are first. If you can't hang onto the handle bars you can't go fast

[the Z Man]

Most important is 4 or 6 ply tires, stock rims are sufficient, deffinitely need a stabilizer for the 400ex, makes a world of difference, stick style is good just make sure you get a rebuildable one.

fat bars really help along with oury fat grips to cut down on arm pump and vibration... roll off goggles, good thicker glove like four or thor.
Hope this helps and good luck!!!!
Z.

[the Z Man]

by the way, I didn't fall off or kill it or stop, finished second, this was a backwards jump is why it through me, hit it way too fast.

[trailrider894]

Originally posted by 3400ben
Shocks are first. If you can't hang onto the handle bars you can't go fast

Shocks are definetly first... You need to get some 450r front shocks and have them revalved and sprung for you application and weight. Get the gt thunder xc link for your rear shock and get your rear re-valved like your fronts. That should be a bullet proof system for a very long time.

[MtnEX]

Originally posted by anderson3064
"01" 426ex

Good deal... you'll need 6 ply tires, skids, suspension and a stabilizer...

I'd get a puck style stablizer, even if it was the CNC one...

Then you will probably bend the rims and need to replace those in time.

Nerf bars with heel guards would be a good idea too... sucks to run over your foot/leg.

[MtnEX]

Originally posted by the Z Man
by the way, I didn't fall off or kill it or stop, finished second, this was a backwards jump is why it through me, hit it way too fast.

Yeah... that was looking rough in pic one... and I know the feeling of being in that situation.

Too many guys don't understand that stock suspension won't save you in that situation...


Certain stuff I go across with my 400EX, the rear kicks up like that nomatter what I do. It needs shock work and a linkage.

My KFX450R does it too... again just on certain launches, but not like the honda does... not anything near that.

My 400EX will launch your body up off the bike high enough you are off the pegs. Bucking bronco.

[anderson3064]

Originally posted by trailrider894
Shocks are definetly first... You need to get some 450r front shocks and have them revalved and sprung for you application and weight. Get the gt thunder xc link for your rear shock and get your rear re-valved like your fronts. That should be a bullet proof system for a very long time.
well i have actually been doing some research on the shock deal and for what i would spend in a set of 450r shocks then get them ravalved I could have gotten a set of elkas off the bay. i think im going to save for the elkas. I have enough money now for a steering stabalizer so i think its gonna be first. its way cheaper too. im gonna do some races with stock setup as it will take a minute to sneak enough money away from wife to get some elkas, linkage and revavle the rear. thats a pretty penny right there.

[2001400exrida]

you could just throw some 450r shocks on there, even without revalving, they are a world of difference!

i got mine for 160 and they're a huge improvement, i'm not crazy serious so i'm not goign to pay hundreds to have them revalved, i don't hit huge jumps i just needed a move plush ride through the woods. now i can slam into stuff and it doesn't bottom out!

[trailrider894]

Originally posted by anderson3064
well i have actually been doing some research on the shock deal and for what i would spend in a set of 450r shocks then get them ravalved I could have gotten a set of elkas off the bay. i think im going to save for the elkas. I have enough money now for a steering stabalizer so i think its gonna be first. its way cheaper too. im gonna do some races with stock setup as it will take a minute to sneak enough money away from wife to get some elkas, linkage and revavle the rear. thats a pretty penny right there.

somthing you need to consider, is that the elka's will still need to be re-built for your riding style and weight. So it may not be as cheap as you think. IMO a good set of 450r rebuilds will whoop a set of elkas.

[beags86]

Originally posted by 2001400exrida
you could just throw some 450r shocks on there, even without revalving, they are a world of difference!

i got mine for 160 and they're a huge improvement, i'm not crazy serious so i'm not goign to pay hundreds to have them revalved, i don't hit huge jumps i just needed a move plush ride through the woods. now i can slam into stuff and it doesn't bottom out!


X2!!

i got my R shocks from a member on here for 160 shipped. world of diff. i don't "race" persay.... me a few buddies race around an old farm though the woods, fields and an old rock quarry, 4-5th gear pinned most of the time. very hard on the machine and the shocks work great. i am 220lbs, i myself don't find the shock "stiff" like everyone says.

buy the shocks now and then next winter have them revalved if need be, would give you time to "sneak some money from the wife"
or maybe you would like the stock setting like i do.

lastly even if i started racing i wouldn't have them revalved..

[anderson3064]

Originally posted by trailrider894
somthing you need to consider, is that the elka's will still need to be re-built for your riding style and weight. So it may not be as cheap as you think. IMO a good set of 450r rebuilds will whoop a set of elkas.
on the bay i can get new elkas w/o ressies for 479.00 and they are built for my riding style and wieght. wouldnt that be better than r shocks that are factory set.

[anderson3064]

Originally posted by beags86
X2!!

i got my R shocks from a member on here for 160 shipped. world of diff. i don't "race" persay.... me a few buddies race around an old farm though the woods, fields and an old rock quarry, 4-5th gear pinned most of the time. very hard on the machine and the shocks work great. i am 220lbs, i myself don't find the shock "stiff" like everyone says.

buy the shocks now and then next winter have them revalved if need be, would give you time to "sneak some money from the wife"
or maybe you would like the stock setting like i do.

lastly even if i started racing i wouldn't have them revalved..
if i can find some r shocks for around 200 shipped i would go for it. i myself am 220 and 40 years old. i am gonna do xc racing this year but just tohave fun. i really dont care if i win.

[2001400exrida]

yeah can find a real nice hardly used set on ebay for 200 bucks, do some searching! you will love the upgrade.

[countypark]

I built this for the woods 2 years ago, won my class in 2010. Nearly 40hp and the only engine work i've done since the build is a couple sets of clutch pads. Still runs like new after about twenty races.

Stroked 440, gt thunder rebuilds and link. + 2 a-arms. It rocks in the woods.

I'm 42.

Built it all myself under $3500 bucks.

[anderson3064]

Originally posted by countypark
I built this for the woods 2 years ago, won my class in 2010. Nearly 40hp and the only engine work i've done since the build is a couple sets of clutch pads. Still runs like new after about twenty races.

Stroked 440, gt thunder rebuilds and link. + 2 a-arms. It rocks in the woods.

I'm 42.

Built it all myself under $3500 bucks.
thats a nice quad. i just need to work on suspension. so everyday i am bird doggin the net for a good price on some r shocks or some used elkas, fox, pep.

[anderson3064]

Originally posted by 2001400exrida
yeah can find a real nice hardly used set on ebay for 200 bucks, do some searching! you will love the upgrade.
got these on the bay today for 215.00....my face hurts so bad from cheesin since i won the auction.....cant wait to get them on the quad...

[MtnEX]

That ought to be an improvement over the stock pogo sticks.

[trailrider894]

Originally posted by anderson3064
got these on the bay today for 215.00....my face hurts so bad from cheesin since i won the auction.....cant wait to get them on the quad...

Now get them things rebuilt!!! They will ride sweet!!!

[countypark]

If you want that quad to handle right go to GT Thunders web site and get his set up sheet then send him all your shocks and measurements. Buy his XC link and you will not be disappointed. The best improvement you'll get on the 400EX.

Plan on spending about 600 if he is running a special.

The Elkas are good shocks but the real problem with the 400 is the rear end.

[2001400exrida]

Originally posted by trailrider894
Now get them things rebuilt!!! They will ride sweet!!!

as much as it costs to rebuild those things, i wouldn't even do it!

anderson already mentioned that he's not trying to be super serious about it, so i doubt he will want to spend 700 bucks having them rebuilt.

yeah if you're a racer and are looking for the best possible setup then go for it, but if you're a casual hare scramble racer, these shocks will give you a major step up just the way they are compared the stock ex pogo's.

i'd say throw them on there and let them rip anderson.

[anderson3064]

Originally posted by 2001400exrida
as much as it costs to rebuild those things, i wouldn't even do it!

anderson already mentioned that he's not trying to be super serious about it, so i doubt he will want to spend 700 bucks having them rebuilt.

yeah if you're a racer and are looking for the best possible setup then go for it, but if you're a casual hare scramble racer, these shocks will give you a major step up just the way they are compared the stock ex pogo's.

i'd say throw them on there and let them rip anderson.
yep...i'm not doing anything to them that i dont have too. i will however get the rear shock revalved with a xc link...but i am as always bird doggin the net lookin for a cheap one..haha

[beags86]

Originally posted by anderson3064
got these on the bay today for 215.00....my face hurts so bad from cheesin since i won the auction.....cant wait to get them on the quad...

sweet find, i wish i could have found a deal like that when i was looking!

[countypark]

Glad to hear that your doing the rear. All you need to buy is the link. A very good friend of mine spent several days in the hospital because he only put fronts on. Good luck on finding a used one, they don't cost too much. Laz will rebuild your stock rear. Just remember that proper handling is a whole package front and rear. Shock travel is very important as well as proper valving and springs. I agree that bolting on the elkas is a huge improvement over stock but its not even close to what it should be.

Take my advice and spend your money on suspension before your engine and it will make you are far better racer.

[anderson3064]

Originally posted by countypark
Glad to hear that your doing the rear. All you need to buy is the link. A very good friend of mine spent several days in the hospital because he only put fronts on. Good luck on finding a used one, they don't cost too much. Laz will rebuild your stock rear. Just remember that proper handling is a whole package front and rear. Shock travel is very important as well as proper valving and springs. I agree that bolting on the elkas is a huge improvement over stock but its not even close to what it should be.

Take my advice and spend your money on suspension before your engine and it will make you are far better racer.
im not going anywhere near the engine. i am all about suspension. i will definitly get the rear done and see what it rides like before i send the fronts off. Derisi's prices are alot better than GTT. i can get fronts and rear done at Derisi for what GTT is charging for just th fronts

[trailrider894]

Originally posted by anderson3064
im not going anywhere near the engine. i am all about suspension. i will definitly get the rear done and see what it rides like before i send the fronts off. Derisi's prices are alot better than GTT. i can get fronts and rear done at Derisi for what GTT is charging for just th fronts

have you thought about Colby at C&D? Site sponsor, and does a top notch job from what hear!!!

[anderson3064]

Originally posted by trailrider894
have you thought about Colby at C&D? Site sponsor, and does a top notch job from what hear!!!
yes i have done my research on this and as it stands right now i cant afford none of these guys. My jaw hit the floor when i saw how much it cost to revavle and respring the shocks. had i known what i know now i would have saved for some new ones that were set up for me. i'm going to be out more money with used than if i bought new. thats just nuts. jeesh everyone wants to get rich. these shocks aint made of gold and cant for the life of me understand why it cost so much.

[countypark]

I would at least get the stock rear shock done by gt thunder and get his link. You'll be ok with the fronts as long as you give gt thunder the measurements he asks for. The suspension problem with the 400 has to do with leverage ratio and his link corrects the problem. It will greatly reduce the bucking that the stock link causes.

[supertrooper90]

I think you should check your math. For like a grand in total (including purchase price of your elka's) you'll have a suspension set up entirely for you. Its a world of difference just in comfort alone. Those shocks you see on ebay for like 400 bucks are just the bottom of the line garbage! you get what you pay for. The one thing I've heard about derisi is that he is sometimes slow getting stuff back to you. Gt thunder my stuff has always been back to me within 10 days of shipping.

[anderson3064]

Originally posted by supertrooper90
I think you should check your math. For like a grand in total (including purchase price of your elka's) you'll have a suspension set up entirely for you. Its a world of difference just in comfort alone. Those shocks you see on ebay for like 400 bucks are just the bottom of the line garbage! you get what you pay for. The one thing I've heard about derisi is that he is sometimes slow getting stuff back to you. Gt thunder my stuff has always been back to me within 10 days of shipping.
exactly. you said it all in the second sentence. no way will i pay a grand to have the shocks redone. not gonna happen. ill just trail ride with my kids and be happy with that. i paid 1400 for the quad. ihave been around quads and RC for a while now and as soon as the word racing gets involved the price shoots through the roof. i cant even think why in the world it cost so much for a revalve. a gradn for 3 shocks. :huh ....this thread and this shock thing has just detoured me away from hare scrambles. like i said. everyone wants to get rich. but they not getting my money

[supertrooper90]

wow...I'm sorry you feel that way. I got into harescrambles just for the simple fact that it is a fairly low cost way to get into some form of quad racing. Keep in mind I'm 33 married, own a home, and dont make a boatload of $.
Thats why I only run a few per year. It gets expensive quick!
You can still run harescrambles. You need the suspension to be competitive. Just go out and have a good time.

[anderson3064]

Originally posted by supertrooper90
wow...I'm sorry you feel that way. I got into harescrambles just for the simple fact that it is a fairly low cost way to get into some form of quad racing. Keep in mind I'm 33 married, own a home, and dont make a boatload of $.
Thats why I only run a few per year. It gets expensive quick!
You can still run harescrambles. You need the suspension to be competitive. Just go out and have a good time.
yeah sorry for the moment of madness. i think the sticker shock of a revalve got me. never in my wildest imagination did i think it would be that much. im not too worried about being competitive as of now. and i feel you on the married with kids and bills. i dont make a boat load of money either but i am glad for what i got. there are foar more with far less than me

[2001400exrida]

i'm competitive but i'm just looking to get a couple good races in.

i got all stock 450r stuff on me ex. shocks, swingarm, rear axle, brakes.

[anderson3064]

Originally posted by 2001400exrida
i'm competitive but i'm just looking to get a couple good races in.

i got all stock 450r stuff on me ex. shocks, swingarm, rear axle, brakes.
did you get the shocks revalved. i hope i am reading stuff wrong but a grand to get 3 shocks revavled is very expensive to me

[2001400exrida]

no, i'm rolling this season with stock 450r stuff basically, no revalved shocks.

i'm 175lbs i'm anxious to see how it rides, it will be a bucking bronco but i'll hang on and race.

[trailrider894]

Originally posted by 2001400exrida
no, i'm rolling this season with stock 450r stuff basically, no revalved shocks.

i'm 175lbs i'm anxious to see how it rides, it will be a bucking bronco but i'll hang on and race.

Why did you switch the rear to 450r?

[anderson3064]

well i just checked elkas website and they state a full service and revavle is only 140 a shock i can handle that. then get the rear done at GTT with the link:p

[2001400exrida]

yeah, the elka's could be cheaper.

the stock 450r's if you wanna make them good usually need resprung with dual rate springs and revalved. that's where it gets expensive

trail i switched to the 450r rear cuz it's a little wider and a little longer and the rear brake is better.

it makes a differnece too, even if it's only and inch or two it's visible vs. the stock 400ex front width.

[anderson3064]

Originally posted by 2001400exrida
yeah, the elka's could be cheaper.

the stock 450r's if you wanna make them good usually need resprung with dual rate springs and revalved. that's where it gets expensive

aahh...i got all tweaked out for nothing. its still gonna be a while before all this can happen. will definitly get the rear done first.

[anderson3064]

actually Derisi is only $200.00 a pair for revalve. I know whos getting my business.

[trailrider894]

Originally posted by anderson3064
actually Derisi is only $200.00 a pair for revalve. I know whos getting my business.

Race tech is 180. lol

[anderson3064]

outstanding. if you saved me a 20 spot i owe ya a beer.:D

[trailrider894]

Originally posted by anderson3064
outstanding. if you saved me a 20 spot i owe ya a beer.:D

Race Tech quoted me 300 for front and rear.

[slightlybent47]

I don’t know how much a 450 shock is to re valve but I have a local guy that is very good and he will re valve and re spring if needed an elka rear shock for $60.00 and he will re do it one time for free if it’s not right. Could be that the cost is related to how worn the shock is and what all is done to it. So look around at some local guys and see if they can do it for you. Your turn around time will be much faster. I going to get my stock 450 front shocks re done when they wear out but since they were new I put them on with my JD +2 a arms and they work great, don’t know how they would be on stock a arms though.
Hope that helps.

[MtnEX]

Originally posted by anderson3064
yep...i'm not doing anything to them that i dont have too. i will however get the rear shock revalved with a xc link...but i am as always bird doggin the net lookin for a cheap one..haha

Screw Laz at GT Thunder...

You are in Indiana... home of Jet Suspension.

Call or go see these guys... and do any splurging you can by giving them money to make your ride handle better. It will be money well spent.

http://www.jet-motorsports.com/www.jet-motorsports.com/index-2.html

[anderson3064]

Originally posted by MtnEX
Screw Laz at GT Thunder...

You are in Indiana... home of Jet Suspension.

Call or go see these guys... and do any splurging you can by giving them money to make your ride handle better. It will be money well spent.

http://www.jet-motorsports.com/www.jet-motorsports.com/index-2.html
hey thanks man. didnt even know they existed. they are a sponser of the series i plan on racing in and they local. so i will definitly be giving them a call. also there prices are the cheapest yet and I wont have any shipping charges as they are only a 45 minute drive. I wouldnt say screw Laz at GTT thgough. Seems Jet and GTT are very friendly and GTT helped Jet with there shock program. They even use GTT XC link when they do there shock work. Anyway. thanks. now back to page one of this thread. 99% of people I have talked to about racing harescrambles have pointed me in the direction of a 400ex. And I got one now. But Every website I go on about GNCC or any XC racing for that matter is filled with 450R's I could be wrong but it seems to be a favorite of XC racing. Every Jet sponsered rider is on a 450R, i only seen 2 400ex's on IXCR webpage. I am doing this for fun and to have a good time. but in the same token I sure dont wanna be getting lapped by everyone one on a R. I dont mind being the slow guy, just not the slowest.

[2001400exrida]

you will be just fine. the thing i've noticed about harescrambles is that fastest machine doesn't necessarily win.

Also, even the best setup (shock wise) doesn't always win. In harescrambles it's all about who's got the balls to fly through the woods and up the hills and over the rivers haha. Also many hare scrambles are setup with big obstacles such as logs and railroad ties or even parking blocks. The ex will dominate over these things, i've noticed.

again power doesn't come in to play as much as it would in a MX race. The XC is where the 400ex gets a chance to hang with the faster quads, because it's really more about who can tackle the trail better.