losing faith in honda [Archive]

Zakradu398

12-24-2010, 10:17 PM

Originally posted by honda400ex2003
sad but true. it better be freaking epic! otherwise there will be another brand in the stable sometime. can am is sure looking sweet lately. hate to have to say it but i am tired of being at the bottom of the totem pole. their big bad big bore 4x4 isnt even big and bad. it is 680 cc of ***** engine with a decent chassis. that is the only thing they have going. it is about time they stop riding the reliability wave and grow a set again imo. steve

For sure, they need to step up and blow everyone out of the water. Honda may not be my favorite brand but they definitely have the potential.

honda400ex2003

12-24-2010, 10:23 PM

i have said i wouldnt buy anything but honda for so long and have stuck by them but i am just getting tired of the bull they seem to pull every year with nothing new for any high performance stuff.

great their 4x4 rancher finally has independent rear suspension... something it should have had from the beginning.

rincon, drum brakes when it came out in 03. please... it took them till 05 to fix those with disks and finally put fi on it to even get it back into the game at all. i dont wanna see 800s or 1000s, those are too easy to have more issues with from people misriding them. make a super smooth hard hitting 650 or 700 cc that would keep up with the 800s.

it would be super nice to see the 400 with fi but that most likely wont happen either. maybe use the air cooled engine with an fi head that bolts to the rest easily. wouldnt that be nice. haha

ill always have my 400 and my 250 but jeeze it is like a kick in the nads when you cant even get a 2010 lineup let alone anything new at all. lol

just venting i guess... it irritates me every day i check the site and see nothing new for the sport atvs.

steve

CJM

12-25-2010, 12:00 AM

I personally think they need to step up and start making dedicated factory MX and XC machines like alot of others are doing. Thats where honda lacks, they need a race ready machine that isnt outdated, the 450r is quite outdated by now.

New engines would be nice, maybe something along the lines of a FUEL injected quad 450 or 500cc +.

speedracer350X

12-25-2010, 04:52 AM

Their top management is in it for the business end of it, it all comes down to the economy in my opinion. I agree, I "Bleed Red" through and through, but look at the face of the nation now, no big demand for toys and luxury items. I thank the Good Lord everyday for a job and a little $ left over for toys. Keep the faith, eventually the economy will pick up, then maybe Honda will be on top again, (this coming from a guy who remembers Honda's dominance on 3 wheelers back in the 80's) by the way, Merry Christmas!!

YFZ-FoFiddy-TC

12-25-2010, 06:09 AM

This is why I ride blue. :D

mx8

12-25-2010, 08:42 AM

I have rode honda for years. The main reason is because of the reliability. I would rather have that than the fastest quad out, that is always breaking down. If I was making a new quad for honda, It would be a xr650 motor in the 400ex frame. I would be trying to look at what the trail rider would want, and the weekend warrior. MX is a dead sport and cost to much to do. But trail riding on a quad that you don't have to rebuild all the time, is what the normal man or woman wants. This is why I still have a 400ex and not the 450r. I would say that most people who say they want the fastest quad out. Has not even pushed there smaller quad to the limits yet.

honda400ex2003

12-25-2010, 08:50 AM

Originally posted by YFZ-FoFiddy-TC
This is why I ride blue. :D

WHICH ISNT ANY BETTER. steve

YFZ-FoFiddy-TC

12-25-2010, 09:00 AM

Originally posted by honda400ex2003
WHICH ISNT ANY BETTER. steve

Yeah, they only have updated models, XC specifics, FI on their quads, MX models, etc. But they're not any better.

I mean, they're only keeping up with the times while Honda is standing behind their unchanged 2004 model. :rolleyes:

honda400ex2003

12-25-2010, 09:03 AM

i believe that it was updated in 06 which inst any better but... gotta get your facts right. I would stop riding before i bought a yamaha. it really isnt the yamahas themselves- it is the idiot riders that i dont like. i could never ride one just for that reason. steve

tbrackman84

12-25-2010, 09:14 AM

idk i personally think honda is doing ok. It would be pretty sweet if they went crazy and designed some sweet xc specific styles and everything, but they havent, and we all still love them. I personally dont think honda has to worry about making any fancy models like the other brands becasue they will be known as the most reliable quads out there no matter what. I'm just saying that i would buy a regular Honda before any other machine, beisdes a KTM :devil:

tbrackman84

12-25-2010, 09:14 AM

Originally posted by YFZ-FoFiddy-TC
Yeah, they only have updated models, XC specifics, FI on their quads, MX models, etc. But they're not any better.

I mean, they're only keeping up with the times while Honda is standing behind their unchanged 2004 model. :rolleyes:

well i read this AFTER my post but i agree 100%

skyeryder

12-25-2010, 09:15 AM

personally I like the carb, maybe a mx or xc version, but why would they, go to any race and the majority of privateers are on Hondas so why should they change..... Bring back a new and improved 2-stroke and I might get excited!!!!

honda400ex2003

12-25-2010, 09:27 AM

that would def be awesome! a new 250r again would be sick! Id be the first one to the dealer to buy one of those babies if it looked cool like the old ones. steve

deathman53

12-25-2010, 09:29 AM

didn't dirtwheels do an article comparing a "so-called"89 250r to a '10 450r. It was basically saying to honda, GET ON YOUR BUTT, WHAT YOU BUILT IN 89 STILL COMPETES AND CAN BEAT WHAT YOU HAVE TODAY. It was far from a true 89 250r, it was more like a 86 w/ mis-matched parts and they got some facts wrong, but it was meant to make a point. I will ride honda and ktm, I will stick to my 250r's as long as there is parts to keep it running, my next 3 wheeler is gonna be all honda. It will be a 05 crf450r powered, custom framed, using alot of crf450r parts, some trx450r and few 250r parts. Something that I will be able to get parts for in the next 10+ years.

I do agree w/ some others here, why are these people buying 450r's if they can't ride there very very reliable 400ex's to the point where it needs a new bike. They add more power w/ parts, but never improve the suspension, that is what makes you move!!!!! Honda is mostly about making something that can be ridden alot and not break or require tons of maintence, that is what they do and that is why people are true to honda. Something new from honda does need to come out, going back to 250r specs for the chassis would be a very welcome change and bring more people in. Bring back the 250r and you will see me buying 3 of them.

alanbmx

12-25-2010, 10:17 AM

The reason there are no 10 and 11 models is nothing has been selling for 3 years, I just bought a brand new 08 450r here in San Diego CA for $4095. The dealers all over the country have tons of 98's and 09's sitting there, Great deals are there to be had, Dealer had brand new 09 honda 700x for $5995 and 08 Yamaha &00 Raptor for $5995

alanbmx

12-25-2010, 10:25 AM

The 2 strokes have been regulated away, thanks to our politicians they are gone, Still have my 86 ATC250R that I bought new. But the new 4 stokes blow me away. Used to be able to keep up with the Banshee's but not anymore.

When I got my 08 450r I was surprised how many parts were almost exactly the same as on my old 3 wheeler, clutch E brake switches. But if it works why change

CJM

12-25-2010, 10:48 AM

Actually an XR650 powered atv with a 400ex type frame and suspension would probably be awesome. Gotta wonder just how heavy it is vs a 400/450r tho, weight is a big factor imho.

quadinfamily

12-25-2010, 12:43 PM

welcome to the 2011 honda ! there line of quads are getting smaller and smaller . If they dont want to be the best they need to get out of the quad business . look at there 300 ex is the same quad from 93 nothing change ! they dont care about are sport and iam not giving them a dime of my money till they do . my two cents ..

mx8

12-25-2010, 01:19 PM

People buy hondas for the reliabilty. My friend bought a 1987 honda trx250es new in 1987. And it is still running today with no rebuild on it ever. And that has seen some hard riding. And the oil changes were valvaline 10w 30 motor oil. I hope that they never do away with the 400ex, just for that reason. And as far as the honda 4x4 atv's go. I think that the rincon 660 is big enough for anything that you would need. It is getting to a point of what is to big. I don't understand why everbody thinks they have to have the biggest of everything. I guess some people have to make up for something that is small in there life:D It's not only in the atv world, It's cars, trucks, homes. And people wonder why the world is so far in debt. My 2 cents

MX450

12-25-2010, 01:29 PM

They dont have anything new because they havnt sold 08s and 09s. Ill take my 05 over any of the "hot new" 2011 machines anyday.

Factories are in it for money, they dont care about racing. If there were no bikes left on showroom floors then they would have something new.

motochamp250

12-25-2010, 01:42 PM

ya'll act like the honda is so out of date it is incapable of winning? :confused: most local racers around here ride honda... plenty of hondas win at the national level as well so i don't understand? i for one don't want efi and you dont really gain much with aluminum frames after you beef them up enough to take the abuse besides making it harder to weld/repair.. i can work on a carb and theres less to go wrong. im not saying i'm not for innovation but the hondas are simple and still get the job done. they will release something when they are good and ready, like they always have.... just my opinion let the bashing begin..
hunter

motochamp250

12-25-2010, 01:44 PM

Originally posted by mx8
People buy hondas for the reliabilty. My friend bought a 1987 honda trx250es new in 1987. And it is still running today with no rebuild on it ever. And that has seen some hard riding. And the oil changes were valvaline 10w 30 motor oil. I hope that they never do away with the 400ex, just for that reason. And as far as the honda 4x4 atv's go. I think that the rincon 660 is big enough for anything that you would need. It is getting to a point of what is to big. I don't understand why everbody thinks they have to have the biggest of everything. I guess some people have to make up for something that is small in there life:D It's not only in the atv world, It's cars, trucks, homes. And people wonder why the world is so far in debt. My 2 cents

+1 why do i need a 850cc 4x4 that i will need a small dozer to pull out if it gets stuck...is it fun to ride? sure. but if i want to go 80 ill get on a race bike... i for one really miss the 300 fourtrax 4x4.. perfect size and power just my .02
hunter

deathman53

12-25-2010, 01:47 PM

actually the market removed the 2 strokes and how the big 4 pushed 4 strokes. There is nothing saying that competition 2 strokes can't be imported and sold here. As of 07 new 2 strokes can't be sold as non-competition vehicles. Why is it that 07+ ktm 2 strokes, husky and gasgas 2 strokes don't come w/ spark arrestor, headlight or tail light when they used to. Its to by-pass the "non-competition" stopping of selling them.

Honda wanted to be done w/ 2 strokes long before. In 97 they issued something about how they wanted to phase of the 2 strokes and everything will be 4 stroke in a few years. Nobody came out w/ a 4 stroke that would compete w/ 2 strokes and be of a decent weight. In 99 yamaha came out w/ the yz400f and that wasn't a huge push for them to do, it was one guy keeping the development moving. It was an experiment. The bike took off and honda worked on their own, suzuki and kawi were last to do so.

The big push on 4 strokes started, the pro's were riding 4 strokes and we all know "monkey see-monkey-do". In 04 honda and yamaha had a 4 stroke quad, 250r's were being replaced by 4 strokes in the pro's in mid 05. More "monkey see-monkey-do" went on. In 06 or 07 the pro production rule started, it drove out the 1/4-1/2 of the pro racers who still rode a 250r and hybrid. Funny isn't it, guess what won gnc and maybe gncc the last year before the production rule came in...........A 250R.

Now the market wants to turn around, as people are finding out the costs of the new 4 strokes, rules were put in place, stopping 2 strokes indoor, honda, kawi and suzuki stopped them. Now only ktm, gasgas, husky and yamaha have 2 strokes. And not much can be done at this point to return it to 2 strokes. Its kinda like returning 3 wheeled atv's as new machines, it won't happen......ever.

If any of you do enduro, harescrambles and other like events, you will see that atleast 50-60% are 2 strokes, these are real world riders, not "monkey see - monkey do" and most of these are ktm or husky. Leave the 2 strokes to people who aren't drones of what the pro's ride and who know how to make them work just as good, if not better than 4 strokes. I returned my 2 stroke dirtbike back to riding this weekend, before I rode a 4 stroke, I'm much faster on a 2 stroke..........can any of the 450 or 250 4 stroke drones explain........less weight, faster turning and less fatiguing. I find the same thing w/ my 250r and 250r w/ crf450r hybrid. The hybrid wears me out and I go back to the 2 stroke.

01 250exman

12-25-2010, 03:20 PM

I gave up on Honda a long time ago they always seem to lag behind for some reason but brand loyalty is re-tarted anyways I am going to buy whatever kicks *** whether its a Honda/Yamaha Chevy/Ford :rolleyes:

Honda5

12-25-2010, 03:46 PM

I'll stick with the Hondas I like going to the track and not having any to worry about my quad. I would say the 450r and the ltr are the most popular at d7races but you see less problems with the Hondas. There have only been 2 or 3 guys on 250rs and they are not very competitive. I love my two strokes but I am nowhere as fast on them.

honda400ex2003

12-25-2010, 05:51 PM

i love my hondas too but it would be nice to see them step it up and blow everyone away again. honda has great machines and are still winning but just focus on the bikes. i know it is nice since i ride rockets too so it is great to see nice progress over there in that department but the atvs just lag behind. I dont even care if there is fi and such on them, that just causes them to be more expensive for mods. it would be nice to have some stuff done to the 400 though as stated with the xr motor in it. man that would be awesome! steve

YFZ-FoFiddy-TC

12-25-2010, 07:34 PM

Originally posted by 01 250exman
I gave up on Honda a long time ago they always seem to lag behind for some reason but brand loyalty is re-tarted anyways I am going to buy whatever kicks *** whether its a Honda/Yamaha Chevy/Ford :rolleyes:

finally someone on this site with logic. Brand Loyalty is what makes monster companies that charge double what everyone else charges, and people still buy it.

The biggest one I can think of is Rockford Fosgate. As far as Im concerned, they are the biggest waste of money.

Brand loyalty is just DUMB. Regardless. I ride Hondas/Yamahas/KTM/Suzuki. Fact is they're all good bikes. /end

tbrackman84

12-25-2010, 11:02 PM

you can't really say brand loyalty is "retared". It's actually a major part of economics and a main way for companies to be able to predict what they will need to supply. Brand loyalty goes hand in hand with the quality of the company and their product. Customer service, warranties, etc., are all in place to try to make someone want to buy from the same manufacturer again. So if brand loyalty is "retarded" as you say, you can kiss decent customer services, warranties, and quality goodbye. All companies want you to buy from them multiple times so they try to make your experience hassle free an pleasant. And dont say "retarded".

12-25-2010, 11:24 PM

Sure it would be nice to see them make something new but am I going to buy a brand new Honda quad? Never! So in all honesty whether they make a new model or not I could care less. They are really slacking, but so is the economy.

440racer66

12-25-2010, 11:27 PM

i loved my 440ex it was a great quad and i had one of john natalies old bikes and i liked the way it handled in a corner but when it got rough it liked to buck. but i like a yfz alot better.

honda400ex2003

12-26-2010, 12:11 AM

Originally posted by YFZ-FoFiddy-TC
finally someone on this site with logic. Brand Loyalty is what makes monster companies that charge double what everyone else charges, and people still buy it.

The biggest one I can think of is Rockford Fosgate. As far as Im concerned, they are the biggest waste of money.

Brand loyalty is just DUMB. Regardless. I ride Hondas/Yamahas/KTM/Suzuki. Fact is they're all good bikes. /end

i tend to see you backing yamaha quite often... look at your username. what does that say... oh yeah YFZ-FoFiddy... oh wait i suppose that really isnt brand loyalty at all. it is just the best thing at the moment. it seems to me that you jumped right on the yamaha bandwagon in this thread which really has nothing to do with brand loyalty or any of that.

i believe my original post and all of my previous posts have nothing to do with how loyal anyone is toward anything. I stated that honda is lagging behind and should step it up. I am about as brand loyal as they come... what did my first post say. oh yeah... cam ams sure are looking good arent they.

alot more of loyalty comes from having a good dealer close. up here in the middle of no mans land where i live, we have multiple dealers for stuff. but the kicker is there is one dealer for each. a good dealer that can get you parts quick, knows a bit about the machines they work on, and actually has machines is something that is nice to have when there is only one dealer within 60-90 miles of my house. I have a yamaha dealer, honda dealer and can am dealer, and a arctic cat dealer and polaris dealer. so you have 3 choices in town to go to.

the polaris/arc dealer blows...

the yamaha dealer blows...

the honda/can am dealer is alright.

i ride skidoo and honda, not only because they make good stuff, the dealer can get stuff quick and has stuff in stock most of the time if i
really need something.

i rode yamahas and polaris back in the 90s. theres a reason i dont ride them anymore. the dealers blow. you cant even go in there and get a simple part cause they have to order it or they dont know what you are talking about.

that makes dealing with them tough at best. does that make me brand loyal? maybe a better term is dealer loyal.

Ill stick with my hondas over any other machine any day, it would be nice to see a bit of progress for the atv industry as a whole by pushing the machines further than they already are. that is the fun of the game imo. I hope to join the ranks one day making the game changing machines out there.

steve

slightlybent47

12-26-2010, 05:23 AM

I would like to see them come out with a mx version with a great suspension already bolted on, instead of having to do it myself. And they need to powder coat there frames, the paint they use sucks!

quad2xtreme

12-26-2010, 08:42 AM

I'd like Honda to offer a base quad that is nothing more than the frame, engine, wiring harness, tank, plastics, brakes, controls, and spindles.

Basically, leave off the bars, steering stem, a-arms, wheels & tires, swingarm, subframe, axle, and shocks.

quadinfamily

12-26-2010, 08:59 AM

the last two new models they came out with is 700 and the big red .
with the big red john deer is more sporter wow thats pretty sad , and its like step back in time 20 years with the old red .
my friend has the 700 , he likes it but it wear him out trying to keep up . for the money he spend he very upset .
I think honda doesn't care what we want at all . its like there sitting on the butts and trying out of business like pontiac did .
i would love to go and buy a 2011 350r two stroke or a 800r pilot side by side thats turbo , but not going sit around hold my money and waiting for them . i will build my own ! there so many good quads out there not like the 80s wear you only had three
to choose from and honda was the best of them .

mx8

12-26-2010, 09:30 AM

Sounds like to me most of you people want honda to build a custom quad just for you. Well guess what it's not going to happen. Theres plenty of atv's to choose from out there now. Pick one custom make it for yourself and be happy. You have everything from a laeger 250r to a honda 450r to an 800cc work model. What more does everyone want. :rolleyes:

slightlybent47

12-26-2010, 02:46 PM

Originally posted by mx8
Sounds like to me most of you people want honda to build a custom quad just for you. Well guess what it's not going to happen. Theres plenty of atv's to choose from out there now. Pick one custom make it for yourself and be happy. You have everything from a laeger 250r to a honda 450r to an 800cc work model. What more does everyone want. :rolleyes:

Other manufactures are making them then why not Honda?

YFZ-FoFiddy-TC

12-29-2010, 07:46 AM

Honda400ex2003-

reading comprehension owns you. I said in my post I ride and will own anything depending on what I like. Sorry that Yamaha is far ahead of Honda right now, doesn't mean you need to get your panties in a bunch.

honda400ex2003

12-29-2010, 07:47 PM

i cant believe it took you just about 5 days to respond... but better late than never for some. it does take some people a long time to come up with decent comebacks. just didnt think it took quite that long. :huh

im not sure how your comment could be misinterpreted but... i could care less about what you ride honestly. looks to me you show some brand loyalty no matter how DUMB you think it is and how much you say you are not brand loyal.

oh yeah, thats right... i forgot... you ran out of creative usernames. brand names are all you have left. :huh

sorry,

steve

one more good one for a good late night laugh. I think it fits you well yfz.

it is better remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt...

YFZ-FoFiddy-TC

12-29-2010, 11:00 PM

You've sincerly damaged my interweb feel bads.

Edit- Sorry I don't get on daily, might take a while for your next e-fight.

xrxmxcx

12-30-2010, 07:59 AM

this same damn thread happens every year, do you guys copy and past and change out the 2011?

honda fail

tbrackman84

12-30-2010, 09:03 AM

i'm lol-ing at the honda haters lol

quad2xtreme

12-30-2010, 09:47 AM

I don't understand the thought process of those believing the ATV industry revolves around mx racing and believing that constant technology releases are financially beneficial in the ATV world.

It is great that all these companies have stepped up the 450 class but it still isn't the driving force in the industry. You can definitely vote with what you buy but it takes a very persuasive argument to get someone to change brands. Hell, I am still invested in my 2006 450r. I haven't seen any other quad out there that propels me to buy a new model. Given that I am already invested in what I have, persuade me why I would benefit from spending $8-12k in a new quad versus what I have plus keeping 8-12k sitting in the bank. If you can do this, you might actually be a good salesman who should be leading a marketing campaign for the industry as a whole.

99400esex

12-30-2010, 10:00 AM

Originally posted by tbrackman84
i'm lol-ing at the honda haters lol

Honda#4

12-30-2010, 11:30 AM

Honestly does it really even matter who has who or what brand No!, I myself am just thankful enough for what I have, besides there are alot more less fortunate people in the world that probably deserve a quad more than some people do. So really is it worth complaining about? I don't think so.

I only bought my quad cuz my buddy had one plus my Polaris had blown up so I needed something more reliable Does that make me brand loyal I don't think so.

Now days in this economy people don't have the money to consider buying a quad that comes track ready so more people result to the ones with the lower cost which now days is pretty much any model not just Honda.

Honestly I think if Honda made a track ready quad they would be losing money for the sole purpose of my last statement.
So really who is losing money here the lower costing quads or the track ready ones? You decide.