Race Ready Quads!!!

[hsr]

does anyone else besides me realzie that the pro atv racing scene is to put it straight forward...weak? i give all the top guys 110% credit for doing what they do and along with everyone that rides and races, it's not really even the riders fault...it costs thousands of dollars just to build an mx quad and it is so hard to race every race w/ out any kind of factory sponsorship. I look at the pros, like carmichael, stewart etc. on bikes and realize that quads have the potential to be doing the same thing that these guys are doing. Quads arent getting the publication and recognition that they deserve. Sure the new Z 400 and raptor, 400ex are considered sport quads , but no one makes a truly race ready performance quad right off of the showroom floor, honda (mainly) yamaha , suzuki , kawasaki need to step up and realize that it is up to them to light a fire under the atv racing scene .... does anyone hear me?

[Ryan]

Arn't you forgetting Cannondale? I think the time is comming and we will see Factory Sponsership soon. It has alot to do with popularity and "MAKING MONEY" Of course. Atv racing has been growing rapidly since the 400ex came out.

In the 80's Atv Racing was doing pretty good but somewhere it just all went to he11. During that tragic period we had no real "Sport" quad except the Banshee. Now we got 400ex's, LTZ/KFX400's, Preditor, Raptor, ect.

I have a feeling were going to see the big names like Honda, Yamaha ect getting involved into atv racing. Just give it some time ;) .

JMO

[hsr]

yea sorry about that , cannondale actually should get the most credit for promoting a race ready quad, i heard they were going under?

[Ryan]

Originally posted by hsr
yea sorry about that , cannondale actually should get the most credit for promoting a race ready quad, i heard they were going under?

They are under. They are forced to sell there business. Its really sad to see the only "Race Ready" quad gone. The new owners will probably be some bicycle company. They actually went under because of the Dirtbikes/Atvs.

But ya gotta give them credit when credit is do!

[hsr]

yea i know what you mean man , it's too bad

obvioulsy the lack of replies reflects the topic of this forum

[Ryan]

Originally posted by hsr
yea i know what you mean man , it's too bad

obvioulsy the lack of replies reflects the topic of this forum

Well this thread is still new so keep your pants on :cool: ;) .

But to wrap it up Atv Racing is in a good direction.:D

[MxDale71]

I think it sucks that quad racers don't get the respect they OBVIOUSLY deserve, and it REALLY sucks that C-dale went under. Hopefully someone will buy them out and that company will be as passionate about Quad racing as C-dale was. Manufacterers don't offer and factory support because there isn't enough publicity, but there would be more publicity if there was factory support. Viscious cycle (I think thats the term?). You see bike races cause they have Honda, Yam, Kaw, Suz, and KTM out there sponsoring riders and the racers are able to ride constantly since they make enough money w/ the racing. You even see snowcross on TV because they have Pol, Artic Cat, Bombardier sponsoring riders and they are able to constantly ride because the racing brings in enough money. Quad racers have to work second jobs just to make a living, and all the money they earn (if they earn any at all) goes right back into racing again. Another vicious cycle.

Even though Quad racing lacks the TV publicity that would boost factory support greatly, the quad racing scene is becoming more and more popular every year due to magazines, and an increasing amount of websites like this one. IMO, it's just a matter of time before the factories get involved. Yes, HOnda said they would NEVER support a quad racing team, but I doubt they would just sit off to the side if Pol, Yam, Suz, and Kaw, got involved (although it does seem to be a popular trend for Honda). Since C-dale is out of the scene, lets hope Suz, or Kaw will get the ball rolling... those 2 companies seem like the only ones that have the balls to do something like that.

[Ryan]

Why did "Honda" say that? And when did you hear this?

When the companies do get involved, they will probably be supporting GNCC racers. (Not to sure):o

I think the companies are beginning to relize how popular this sport is getting. They must have since they all started making sport atvs (Again). Its only a matter of time before it happens. I still can't believe the sucess atv racing has acceeded over the past couple years.

[Nausty]

I'm not pro but personally I kinda like it the way it is. In dirt bikes your considered over the hill at 22 and your get treated like crap if your a privateer and all the special privilages some racers get. I don't want it that big thats for sure. Just like how freestyle is getting where its nothing but $$ and ramp kids.

[Pappy]

im glad to see atv racing getting tv coverage. id like to see quad wars wiped out...but gnc and gncc are kickin butt:macho

i agree....the top seeds in mx racing(bikes) get the free ride...while anyone doing it on thier own is pretty much stuck at the local level...even if they are smokin fast. but thats sports in general...

oh well...as long as we keep a positive image we can go much further:D

[hsr]

i agree , bikes started out somewhere too, and quads can do the same, i definatly agree that everything is headed in the right direction and this kind of thing takes patience. i think factory sponsorship will bring more people into the sport and you will start to see people pushing the limits and quads, going bigger and faster ...:blah

[lt250r91]

First off you do have to give credit to cannondale for being the first to offer a race ready quad and I too am sad on their current situation. I hope the best for them, their employees and the supporters that have purchased their machines and race them. I am one of the people that bought one and love it, but I've moved onto the next soon to be hot race ready quad that every racer has been begging for since 89 when honda discontinued the 250r. The machine I'm talking about is the all new GasGas 300 2-stroke. This could be the machine that takes the sport to the next level and phases out the outdated 250r. I'm in the process of having the finishing touches done to mine in time for round one of the GNCC's.

Hopefully one of the Big 5 now (since Polaris has got in the sport quad scene) steps up with some type of racing support. Kawie is going to have a contigency plan for GNCC racer on the new kxf700 and suzuki is reportly working on deals with Yokley and Gust so maybe this just might be the year that gets the ball rolling on factory involvement. My fingers are cross, but I'm not holding my breathe or waiting on my check. I'm just going to go out there and have fun and maybe win a couple races.

[indygncc]

Kawasaki is highly inlvolved, they have 4 Kawasaki racers this year plus paying contingency for privateers on the 700 V Force.

[NTPRacing#19]

give the sport a few years it will come around for sure. the sport is growing every year... more and more racers show up to race each season.

Personally i dont think a factory supported team can compete the already dominating aftermarket chassis companys and engine builders. i mean Walsh, Roll, and Leagers have their products down to a science and are very dominant!!! sure the factory teams will prolly produce fast motors but i dont think they can keep up with the most important aspect of the sport... the chassis. just my opinion

[MxDale71]

If the Factories get involved, you won't see Farr, Jones, Gust, etc, riding factory quads. It will just use the factory style plastics, color, and side cases. Just like the Factory bike riders. You don't see RC, Pastrana, ect. on showroom bikes w/ shocks and a pipe. The manufacterers work w/ the aftermarket to form teams, a lot like the Nac's Cannondale team. Infact, Pastrana's bike would cost $70K+ to build but nobody could build it cause it's all custom crap that Suzuki and the aftermarket that they are teamed up with put together. There's not a whole lot stock about the Pro bike riders bikes.

[Pro400EXC]

Well,I highley doubt it will be anytime soon you see farr or Gust ridin a factory backed Factory Made HRC Honda quad,Carmicheals Cr250 runs about $80k to make.....so no you won't see any fancy traction control,or anything on a quads for a long time from now......

The only way the factories may help a quad rider now is liek maybe a team,special graphics,and some fancy motor wokr maybe...but look at Kawi,there wasn't anythign special about Yokleys Roll/KX250,all it was,was a kx250 in a roll frame w/ Mojave/Tecate plastics,thats all...anyone else can build one...

[MxDale71]

I was just using Gusts, Farr's and Jones' names as examples. I too seriously doubt you'll see any of them on 70-80K quads backed by the factories any time soon. What I think we'll see is what I said earlier... The Factory joined up w/ a racing company kind of like the C-dale/Nac's team. Maybe something like Honda/K&K, or something similar to that. That way Honda would still save money because companies like LSR, Renthal, Maxxis, ect would join up w/ K&K and Honda wouldn't have to actually produce a full race ready quad. All they produce, is the regular sport quads they do now but w/ more power, shock travel, stronger aluminum frame, and stuff like that direct from factory, but then the Pro factory racing quads would just use stock side cases, frame, and the Honda logo much like the bikes do in racing right now.

Ofcourse the company names and stuff I used were just for example. It could be any combination of companies.

[raptor_02]

I think everyone will agree that our sport is heading in the right direction. ATVA has already raising the PRO PURSE from 4000 to 7500. Also they will payout to the TOP 20 PRO RIDERS as well so that's a big boost. I think Suzuki is going to step into the sport bigtime. There motorcycle scene is going down hill imo and it would be a great time for them to jump into the ATV SCENE. Rumor is that they will have a factory team consisting of Tim Farr and Doug Gust for 2003 and both will be racing in the new PRO PRODUCTION class on Z400's. Once Suzuki jumps in I think other companies will get in as well.

[tants]

canodale was the only race ready quad right off the showroom kinda of company. the only ones that produced race ready quads right?...and didnt they file bankrupcy? im sure honda, yamaha, suzuki all as it in them to product race ready quads, but are scared that all the money they put into those quads, that they wont sell quicky... ya no?

[AndreS]

for now the outlook for canondale is bleak, however... i'm with LT250r91- gasgas is an established company in the motorsports world, producing world class, award winning trials & enduro bikes for 20 years now... so producing a quad wasn't that far of a leap for them. i personally test rode a wild HP 450 4-stroke on tuesday at a dealer... that dealer thinks that gasgas will sell more quads than all thier bikes combined & with only 2 models of the same quad. i'm guessing that means there's quite a bit of interest in them... i know i'm interested in one as soon as i can afford it

[Ryan]

Originally posted by AndreS
for now the outlook for canondale is bleak, however... i'm with LT250r91- gasgas is an established company in the motorsports world, producing world class, award winning trials & enduro bikes for 20 years now... so producing a quad wasn't that far of a leap for them. i personally test rode a wild HP 450 4-stroke on tuesday at a dealer... that dealer thinks that gasgas will sell more quads than all thier bikes combined & with only 2 models of the same quad. i'm guessing that means there's quite a bit of interest in them... i know i'm interested in one as soon as i can afford it

And what 450 would that be :D ;) .

I hear alot of good things about the Gas Gas except for the dialing in suspension and the steering. Anyways, I don't see as many people with this machine as I thought I would. Well I also don't see many of their dealerships around, and for the price I would have toke a Cannondale over them if Cannondale wasn't out of business. They are also over 250cc (2-stroke), however they can only be raced in an open class.

I see the Preditor making much more of a difference in the atv world then the Gas Gas. The Gas Gas will probably be outlawwed after 2006 due to the extinction of 2-strokes.

I think I went off topic but JMO :D .

[BigThumper33]

I personally think cannodale's downfall was their motorcycles. Out of all the years I've rode, I've never once seen a cannondale bike. Yet I've seen plenty of quads around. They offer like 8 models yet I've never seen one.

The companies will not have a hard time getting around the 2 stroke 2006 law. All they have to do is state that it is a competition only machine. Thats how the cr,yz, kx, sx, rm are going to get around it. Simply sell it as competition. Who is going to enforce the law after you purchase the quad?

[Ryan]

Well actually it was the hole Motorsports stuff that Cannondale went down hill from. They made about 32 million a year on the Motorcycles/Atvs yet they made over 130 million on the bicycles. I think they rushed with the motorsports stuff and relized later that they were loosing money. JMO

[AndreS]

about the Gas Gas-
if you haven't payed attention to it, they(Gas Gas) are making TWO models.
1- a 300cc 2-stroke (which you can special order as a 250 to meet class restrictions!)
2- a 450cc 4- stroke with fuel injection (you can special order as a 400cc too)
**the one i rode was the 450cc Gas Gas thumper... sorry to disappoint you :blah

unlike the other major manufacturers, gasgas takes feedback from their customers around the world & makes changes as they are needed during the model's production... they have already changed the front end shock & A-arm configuration... it's supposed to have fixed what the mags were complaining about and increase travel by 1".... or at least that's what the rumor is. i know they will continue to refine this machine.

i don't see gasgas going away... they have wanted into the Hi-performance & race ATV market for some time.... they had one failed attempt that i know of by reading the articles (DW & ATVsport) & still went forward with the project to build it... they just finally got it to the market here... which i believe was thier target all along. once they get the kinks worked out, this will be the new machine to beat.

i agree that gasgas will likely continue to bring the 300 2-stroke into the US as a closed course race machine, they just have to take off the lights... it may already be classified as one

[Pro400EXC]

Originally posted by Ryan
And what 450 would that be :D ;) .

The Gas Gas will probably be outlawwed after 2006 due to the extinction of 2-strokes.

I think I went off topic but JMO :D .


Ummm Dude,the Gas Gas will NOT be outlawed in 2006....I guess everyone dosen't really understand about the whole polution thing....Ok The Gas Gas will still be made after 2006 and you can ride em anywere you wanna ride them...The only thing is any 2stk dirtbike or quad made after 2006 will not have nay changes..like a 2010cr250 will be the same as a 2006 CR250,with just diffrent graphics,thats the only difference...


and also,if the factories can make a 2stk that is clean buring (which can happen) then 2stks will be made still.....

[Ryan]

Originally posted by Pro400EXC
Ummm Dude,the Gas Gas will NOT be outlawed in 2006....I guess everyone dosen't really understand about the whole polution thing....Ok The Gas Gas will still be made after 2006 and you can ride em anywere you wanna ride them...The only thing is any 2stk dirtbike or quad made after 2006 will not have nay changes..like a 2010cr250 will be the same as a 2006 CR250,with just diffrent graphics,thats the only difference...


and also,if the factories can make a 2stk that is clean buring (which can happen) then 2stks will be made still.....

I know you can still buy used 2-strokes after 2006 but once we do come to 2006, won't all the Manufactor companies will start have to stop producing 2-strokes and not being able to sell them on the market unless the find away to depollution them :confused:

AndreS, I didn't know they made a 450cc 4-stroke. You got any pictures of the 450 or is it the same style as the 300 with different engines?

The only thing that stops me from ever getting a Gas Gas is the price. My wallet can not afford an $8,000 quad :( . I have never seen any dealerships that sell them anyways.

I hope things are going to work out better for them then what happened to cannondale :( . Its nice to see companies make "Race Ready" Quads :) .

[AndreS]

Ryan-
the 4-stroke looks the same as the 2-stroke, just a different engine. it has both electric start and kick start. also remember the GG is 51" wide or so.... but apparently you can order it with narrow A-arms for XC

it's not really that much more than a brand new Z or predator. in fact if you add up what your costs would be to build any of those machines to the level of the Gas Gas, you'd be spending closer to $15K including the cost of the quad to start, if not more...
for me it just means saving for a few more months, in addition to selling my LT250R & all the extra stuff i have now for it.

i don't think we'll have to worry about GasGas going away... they've been around for more than 20 years building the best trials bikes in the world... not to mention enduro and MX bikes... in some european countries GasGas is bigger than KTM!

if you're worried about parts availability, every GG dealer i've talked with is able to get parts in about a week. go here for a dealer list!!! (http://www.gasgas.com/Pages/Dealers/Dealer-list.html)

[Ryan]

AndreS, Thanks for all the information. Im actually kinda considering it if Honda doesn't come out with something better before it. I'd like to see what these things can do on the track
:cool: .

Thanks again for the information.

[AndreS]

in i know of a dealer in Arkansas that is selling the GG300 for $7K and the 450 will be about $7700 or so... plus shipping ($250)
the 450 is so new that nobody has pics of it on the web yet even though it's amost identical to the 300 in every way

[lt250r91]

Ryan

If your interested in seeing one on the track show up to a GNCC this year or a D-11 (southern Ohio) harescramble. I'll have my modified GasGas 300 on the track (hopefully near the front if not winning). The 450 looks and is the same as the 300 the only difference is the engine. The parts are in stock at the Indiana warehouse so delivery time depends on shipping time from there to your neck of the woods.

As for aftermarket stuff. Lt-racing has a case/clutch saver, jet kit, exhaust power valve cover, -2mm linkage arm, and air filters. I'm working with the quadshop on suspension upgrades. Hiper Tech is looking into changing the design on the front wheels to clear the large front brake calipers. I'm sure other companies are working on goodies for this quad, but there really isn't much that the quad needs other than dialing the suspension in for the rider.

I'll update everyone on how the 1st & 2nd round of the GNCC's goes for me, along with a complete description on the quads set-up and where I got the parts.

[Pro400EXC]

Originally posted by Ryan
I know you can still buy used 2-strokes after 2006 but once we do come to 2006, won't all the Manufactor companies will start have to stop producing 2-strokes and not being able to sell them on the market unless the find away to depollution them :confused:

.

Bro,they will still sell 2stk's after 2006,but they will be the same,you know like how the cr500 in 2000 was exactley the same as the 1991 CR500..get the picture?

[raptor_02]

Originally posted by Ryan
Well actually it was the hole Motorsports stuff that Cannondale went down hill from. They made about 32 million a year on the Motorcycles/Atvs yet they made over 130 million on the bicycles. I think they rushed with the motorsports stuff and relized later that they were loosing money. JMO that's true but I bet 90% of the 32 million they made in the motorsports division come from ATV's. If Cannondale would have quit wasteing their damn money making the motorcycles they would still be in business. The ATV world had no competition for race ATV's and they were and would have continued to dominate. I was close to trading my EX in for one but now i'm glad I didn't. LONG LIVE CANNONDALE!!!!!!

[Ryan]

lt250r1, I don't know if I can get my arse over there but hopefully I will see one on the track. Keep us updating on how things go :) .

Pro400exc, I still am not getting the hole concept here. Are you saying you will still be able to buy Banshee's after 2006 off the dealer floor if the want to exceed making them past 2006 :confused: . I thought all the Manufactor Companies will stop having to make 2-strokes since they were outlawing them?

raptor_02, The bikes were really terrible and no one really wanted to buy them. One reason I could think of is it being 40 pounds heavier then all the other motocross bikes. I also think not many people really wanted or needed the fuel injection crap. It was a big waste of time for them to build the motocross bikes. I never seen any pro's riding them or any of them on tv.

The quads on the other hand was a different story :) .
The way things are looking for the Cannondales, I would buy a Gas Gas first because of the fact the Cannondale went under and was forced to sell :( .

Like Raptor_02 said, "Long Live Cannondale :D ."

[bradley300]

cannondale is not gone! they were bought by RAD.

production resumes in 3 months!:D

[Pro400EXC]

By the way,who is RAD?The same ppl that make them axles and all?

[MEL]

honda not backing race teams? what would you call your their support in baja. the 650 rincon finished 1st and 3rd. every part on those quads was facory one-offs except the steeringstablizers. they had hga preformance build the pipes(hondas r&d department), special showa shocks, a factory gas tank that held 7 gallons, and ohtsu tires. if thats not factory support, i don't know what is. and if they can do that for a once a year race like the baja 1000, then why can't they help in races like the gncc and gnc. races that more of us can relate to!

[jaspurx]

kawasaki is stepping up , the rest will fall in line ( i hope )!!! i remember the 80`s !!!! that was sooo cool!!! then came the atv dark ages!! but now we`re back!!!i think tha manufacturers are weary of getting too involved and backing out again!! but it`s just a matter of time!!

[Ryan]

Originally posted by bradley300
cannondale is not gone! they were bought by RAD.

production resumes in 3 months!:D

And you got this information from? I would like to read up about it!