ice racing set up please help

[250rRyan]

I need help on setting up my R for ice racing. I have brand new cheng shin 18x9.5x8 rears. Kold kutters screws is what Im going to use. But i dont know what length to use. I don't want the screws to go threw the tire and leak air. For the fronts i have new set of maxxis mx 20x6x10. what length screw would work.
I have sway bar and plus 4 axle and +3 full flight a arms My motor is 310 race gas RB racing port and polish, 39mm carb and boyesen reeds Kurtis sparks tt pipe. Any info on lenght of screws and indexing them would be great. Any other info on setting This R up would be appreciated. Thank you

[DnB_racing]

Ive been looking into this also, from what Ive been led to believe when you put the Kold Kutters in yourself you wont get the best performance, the angle of the tips have to be just right for braking and cornering to be the most productive!!
you can just put one on every lug and get by, but a properly set up tire will make a huge difference.
as far as leght of the screw it depends on the tire and if they are brand new!if they are new go as long as possible, the longer the screw the less the stud will move and will give better performance and less chance of spitting out the screw,

[latheboy]

First lets talk about the rears. You have the right tires. Here is a TT tire studded for ice with Kold Kutters. These are 1" long. They do go thru the tire. Thats the way you want it. Otherwise you will pull screws out, esp on the rear. They will only leak if you pull a screw. These tires pictured have one winter on them. I always keep wraps on them, so they are never on anything but ice. When the tires get 2 or 3 seasons old, the screws will loosen up and you will loose screws and leak air. Thats when its time to make new ones. Or buy them. A pro in WI here studs tires just like this for $220 a set (tires and screws, indexed, no rims) plus shipping. I highly recommend his tires. Notice the way the screws are indexed. Pictured is a right rear tire. The screws slot is parallel to the rear axle. The screws are in the front portion of the rubber block also, to help keep the screws in the tire. The side screws are for braking and left/right corner traction. Those side screws are indexed opposite of the forward traction screws.

[latheboy]

Now lets talk fronts. Lots of ppl here run front holeshots. I never have, and I dont know the studding pattern they use. I prefer to use Kenda Front Max tires. I run 21x7x10. This is the pattern I use. I index the screws with the slot parallel to the frame rails. These are also 1" long screws. Again, once they wont stay in the tire or keep backing out, its time to make new tires. If you dont wanna loose screws, you are going to hafta punch them thru the tire. 1/2" long screws wont go thru most tires, but if you ride hard, they wont stay in either. I stud my own fronts, the one pictured is made with Pro Gold Screws, 1", fine thread. I also trimmed down the top of the new Kenda tire lugs. This is an experiment to see if they hold screws longer. Also, dont run them on anything but ice! Dont push them across concrete, dont ride the river banks. If you dont have wraps, put on your summer tires when you are not on the ice.

[DnB_racing]

great job Lathboy thats just what I needed to know!!!!!
does having more or less horse power change the setup at all?

[latheboy]

In the past, I did get by with studding some worn down front tires with 1/2 ice screws. They worked ok, but I lost screws almost everytime I went out.
Everyone that I know of (that wins races) in this area runs 18" cheng shin rear tires. Front tires are all up to the rider I guess. Whatever works. There is everything from stock 400ex'es to 65hp 4 strokes out there. And maybe a 53hp 350R from what I hear.....

I should also note that these tires are for racing on a plowed track. As clean of ice as possible. There is soo much traction on clean ice, you really need those screws to go thru the tire, otherwise they will rip out.

If you are play riding on snowy tracks, or just lake riding, you can stud up most any tire. For play riding you can run 1/2 long screws and have a good time, you just might loose some screws.

[DnB_racing]

did you put any tire sealant on the screws before inserting or any thing in side the tire??like tire balls or pool worms?? also how much does your tires weigh?? and can you run some Douglas blue label to keep weight down? seeing that the ice isn't like rock riding I would think the blue label would work?

do you think some spray in foam would work and still allow the tire to flex properly??

[250rRyan]

Thanks for the info latheboy. The pictures are going to help me out Big time. Is that right rear tire the same as the left or opp. IF I run the 1 inch long screws in the rear do i put in 20 or 30 lb air in the tire then put screws in . Then let the air down to normal lbs. HOw many pounds would I run in the rear tires and the fronts. Do you use slime in the tires after you stud them. How many studs in each rear. thanks for all the help;)

[latheboy]

I have always studded them up with no air pressure. I dont know for sure if it would make any difference. On race day, depending on if the ice is hard or soft, I have run from 2lb to 10lb in the rear tires. Generally, softer air pressure for softer ice if I remember right. Harder tire pressure for harder ice. For the fronts, the same applies, but maybe start around 7psi.

I dont run any slime. The only time my tires loose air is when they get 3 seasons or so old, then the screws loosen up. Believe it or not, even with 300+ screws jammed in the tires, they will hold 5-10psi all day riding.

I forget exactly how many studs it takes to do the rears, but I know for sure you will need more than 500. I usually just get 1000 right away and save the leftovers for the next set of tires.

[latheboy]

dnb- The blue label should work fine. If yoiu are racing tho, you might want the red labels. (.190 I think?) Even red labels taco pretty easy if someone tags you or you roll it.
I am running my rears on DWT beadlocks. Talk about weight...the beadlocker rim and studded tire weigh 22lbs! Ouch! BUT my stock cyl R didnt seem to mind last year.

[97Rocks]

IMHO, use "gold" screws - 1" long and sharpen them. the screws go in straight and you dont need to worry about braking screws, turning screws, screwy screws... and all that crap. 18" cheng shin rears and 20" fast trekker fronts. Make sure to check your screws after every heat or final and turn them so they touch the tire a bit. They do work their way out. make your ride height about the same as a tt setup. start there and you will be happy. I have won 9 championships in tt, flattrack and my favorite, ice racing. Dont mess with the "black screws" (of course if your racing association allows the "golds") take it or leave it.... thanks and good luck! remember everyone has their own opinion, dont "follow" the guys you are racing as far as tires and all. steup is the key..... holeshots on the ice are 75% of the race

[97Rocks]

oh and by the way fill the tire up with air before studding and keep in mind use a level on the cold tire (racing weather) pump up the tire until u have the most studs on the ground may be about 12 pounds. these tires DO expand like a beach ball under acceleration.....experiment with tire pressure and swaybar jack. rebound on the rear shock is vital for holeshots. I ran around 11 or 12 pounds all the way around but it will vary....

[mx Eli]

if your using regular balck kold kutters you have to angle the studs 15 BACK degrees fro them to clean out and the fronts *** backwards but pm me if u want more info

[97Rocks]

1 more thing, ask yourself.... do I want to spend $$$ on some dudes tires (or stud pattern) that may or may not work, or $$$ on shocks, setup. if u are interested in my help pm me. I have not raced since 2006, sold my stuff... some things change but still remain the same. I am willing, as I was when I was racing, to help anyone.

[latheboy]

I would buy Strangefeld tires any day of the week. Last year I gave him a shot, and they hooked great. They won the open A class at otter street fisheree (quad #19), open A class at Fond du Lac winterfest (TT and Oval)(quad #63), and they won the open A at Fox Lake (the day before the 3 hour bike race). Just sayin...


I have made my own in the past, and they worked great also. I have never worried about the angle the screw goes in. The bike guys say it makes a diff for them, i dunno. For the first few years, I never indexed the screws either, and they worked good when I rode B class.

[97Rocks]

strange tires didnt win a championship from 2000- 2006 in the pro quad classes.... ask me.....they are great tires though. I have tried them.. just my riding style or something. I guess maybe I just wanted to be different :)

[mx Eli]

im from swira series and the last 10 years in pro class has been won on cheng shin 18x9.5x8 rears and some little duro 18 fronts

also with black kold kutter screws

[250rRyan]

thanks Guys. Keep the reply's coming. Most of the races I'm going to run are local small town races. NO pro races. I would need a bigger motor to try to run with the big dogs out there.

[97Rocks]

MXeli- I'm not here to race around the tool box or talk smack on the net I'm just here cuz I moved to this forum to get some ideas for my new build, and noticed some dude looking for ice race help. I appreciate racing and the community, as I raced ama locals, CWIRA, and the tt nationals from 94- 2006. met alot of cool people and made some friends, (probably more enemies) Now, I'm just joe shmoe atv trail guy. Just trying to help out a new guy looking to ice race.

[machwon]

Hi Ryan, LIke you were saying I recommend you pump the tires up to 30-35 psi, put the screws in and them let the air out to where you will run them. Your screws will hold in the tire 10 times better. Let me know if you run any ice races local to me here. Some guys also put the 2nd and 3rd to the outside on a 45 degree angle, the very outside row on a 90. All the others should be aligned straight for the hole shot after every couple races if they move. 20" tires will get you a hole shot but as some one else said you usually don't see them win the race. Good Luck

[FW_cArBoN]

Hey you Wisco boys, we're looking for some quad riders to come up to the West Bend area to do some riding weekly for fun on Smith Lake.

If you are down, hit me up. We ride with a lot of bikes, but it surely would be nice to get some more quad riders out there.

Jason - jay@fwcarbon.com

[morse250r]

i have a set only river ride i too would like to try a race out i know pt huron has a few

[2-330s]

Originally posted by mx Eli
im from swira series and the last 10 years in pro class has been won on cheng shin 18x9.5x8 rears and some little duro 18 fronts

also with black kold kutter screws



what pro class?
i'm not running duro fronts?

brady ran them this last year. before that he ran fasttreckers.:huh

[jon370r]

Originally posted by latheboy
First lets talk about the rears. You have the right tires. Here is a TT tire studded for ice with Kold Kutters. These are 1" long. They do go thru the tire. Thats the way you want it. Otherwise you will pull screws out, esp on the rear. They will only leak if you pull a screw. These tires pictured have one winter on them. I always keep wraps on them, so they are never on anything but ice. When the tires get 2 or 3 seasons old, the screws will loosen up and you will loose screws and leak air. Thats when its time to make new ones. Or buy them. A pro in WI here studs tires just like this for $220 a set (tires and screws, indexed, no rims) plus shipping. I highly recommend his tires. Notice the way the screws are indexed. Pictured is a right rear tire. The screws slot is parallel to the rear axle. The screws are in the front portion of the rubber block also, to help keep the screws in the tire. The side screws are for braking and left/right corner traction. Those side screws are indexed opposite of the forward traction screws.

So is this the best pattern for the screws?

[2-330s]

the pattern shown in the pic is very aggressive. i tried a similar set two years ago and with a shortened swinger the wouldn't work on a two stroke.

[2-330s]

Originally posted by FW_cArBoN
Hey you Wisco boys, we're looking for some quad riders to come up to the West Bend area to do some riding weekly for fun on Smith Lake.

If you are down, hit me up. We ride with a lot of bikes, but it surely would be nice to get some more quad riders out there.

Jason - jay@fwcarbon.com

you guys should lookupswiraclub.com make the trip over to fort. they are trying to get more people out there and have added more bike classes.

[jon370r]

What would be the best tire and pattern for a 60 H.P. 2-stroke?

[mx Eli]

well 330 u blew up last year soooo.. hahaha

but brady and jason swear by those things

[2-330s]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by mx Eli
[B]well 330 u blew up last year soooo.. hahaha

well this is your first year running the a class,coming from the b and production. when you can run with me let me know.

i built a new motor last year and it's a little touchy. looked good last weekend i thought.

watch out for that raptor. it weighs 700 lbs with al on it. ive hit it before and it doesn't move!!

[mx Eli]

hahaah ik! that thing is a pig!!

and i never said I could run with you only stating a fact:cool:

[SilverLake250R]

I got out with my studs in for the first time Saturday, I split 1000 with a friend, so I had 500 total. I ended up putting in 176 per rear and 74 per front. I just used grooved turf tamers I had, one in each lug, left side of the lug, then next row the right side, etc. I also indexed the rears parallel to the axle and the fronts perpendicular to the axle.

I thought this would be ok to start with, but I would probably buy more later... but...

It hooked up like an animal! I couldn't keep the front end down! I would come around the corner topped out, shift, and it would just pull up every time! Other guys with more studs seemed to spin more, is this normal?

As far as I'm concerned, I might add a few to the front, but I'm not touching the rears!