Shock set up questions

[riotact]

Has anyone ever setup their own shocks for wider a-arms and longer swingarm?I have a buddy that can charge them with nitro so that wont be a problem.I could send them out but want to give it a shot myself and learn something new.I assume it is a valving or spring change and shouldn't be to complicated,but I could be wrong.Here is what I have. The fronts are Works triple rate a-t steelers with res set up for 190-210lb rider on stock length a-arms.The back is a Works quadstar with adjustable compression and rebound setup for a 190-210lb rider on a stock length swingarm.I'm at 210lbs,a-arms are +2 +1,and the swingarm is a Lonestar +1.I would assume that if I just run the shocks the way they are setup,now the suspension will be way to soft with the extended arms.Let me know what you think.

[rubbersdown]

May be a bit soft but I doubt it will be that bad. If you want, just change the springs, that will be the biggest noticeable difference. you can try to adjust and modify the shim pack if you want to revalve them but if you dont know what your doing i wouldnt suggest doing it. There is a couple different stacks in each shock with upwards of 30 different sized spacers making up each stack, changing one spacer out of the 40-50 in there can make a pretty substantial difference. If you are planning on racing Pro-am, A or even B class then have them revalved professionally to how you want them. if you are racing C or beginner or not racing at all then just swap the springs for a heavier set and call it a day.

[riotact]

I wont be racing at all just trails and some and field riding.I'm pretty sure the works shocks dont have the shims.They have a goofy looking ball type valve in them so I think you would have to replace the whole valve.

[rubbersdown]

Originally posted by riotact
I wont be racing at all just trails and some and field riding.I'm pretty sure the works shocks dont have the shims.They have a goofy looking ball type valve in them so I think you would have to replace the whole valve.

the check ball valve system they use is just on the piston of the shaft. Every shock with any sort of resi and/or adjustability of compression and or rebound has a valve shim setup. Thats how these style of shocks work, the shim packs regulate the flow of oil in certain parts of the stroke. If you have resi's on your shocks you most deffinetly have shim packs in each one

[dustin_j]

Not quite rubbers; although you might be right with the rear shock, I haven't had one of those apart yet. Whether the shock has a reservoir has nothing to do with the style of damping setup; the primary damping is always done on the shaft. I assume you're thinking of Axis who use a shim stack on their compression adjustment. Works reservoirs on the front have no adjustment, they are just there to get more travel and separate oil and nitrogen. The Works check ball setup isn't that great; it's not able to flow as much oil as a piston shim stack setup, so it hydrolocks bad. I'd like to add that old PEP shocks use the same check ball setup, and suffer hydrolocking also.

Your best bet is to start with spring setup. I think this is why PEP's were popular. Find the correct main spring for your weight, make sure it compresses 1 inch with you standing on the pegs (note you want your entire spring stack on while doing this). Are you going with a triple rate or dual rate? You'll want to minimize sharp transitions when hitting crossovers and changing rates. Since all the springs are in series, you can calculate equivalent spring rates to try to minimize this and choose the best springs. Your crossover gap should be 1/8" to 3/8" with you standing on the pegs for each spring. Larger gap results in a "softer" setup and more weight transfer, and vice versa. You'll learn a lot messing with springs. If you feel valving is holding you back, check with GT Thunder or M@ul Tech ATV for a cnc piston to use. Hope this helps.

[riotact]

I'm going to be running triple rate.I've been checking out the M@ul Tech site with the suspension setup page and it seems pretty helpful.
The fronts don't have the shim pack in them for sure I don't know about the back I haven't taken that apart yet.So since the fronts are close to my weight,I should be able to go the next size main spring then and just reassemble?Thanks for the help so far :D

[rubbersdown]

Originally posted by dustin_j
Not quite rubbers; although you might be right with the rear shock, I haven't had one of those apart yet. Whether the shock has a reservoir has nothing to do with the style of damping setup; the primary damping is always done on the shaft. I assume you're thinking of Axis who use a shim stack on their compression adjustment. Works reservoirs on the front have no adjustment, they are just there to get more travel and separate oil and nitrogen. The Works check ball setup isn't that great; it's not able to flow as much oil as a piston shim stack setup, so it hydrolocks bad. I'd like to add that old PEP shocks use the same check ball setup, and suffer hydrolocking also.

Your best bet is to start with spring setup. I think this is why PEP's were popular. Find the correct main spring for your weight, make sure it compresses 1 inch with you standing on the pegs (note you want your entire spring stack on while doing this). Are you going with a triple rate or dual rate? You'll want to minimize sharp transitions when hitting crossovers and changing rates. Since all the springs are in series, you can calculate equivalent spring rates to try to minimize this and choose the best springs. Your crossover gap should be 1/8" to 3/8" with you standing on the pegs for each spring. Larger gap results in a "softer" setup and more weight transfer, and vice versa. You'll learn a lot messing with springs. If you feel valving is holding you back, check with GT Thunder or M@ul Tech ATV for a cnc piston to use. Hope this helps.

huh interesting, I stand corrected, my bad riotact lol. I have rebuilt 4 shocks, 2 rears from dirt bikes and a front set off of an atv and they all had some little type of shimstack type adjustment setup. I thought the set off of the ATV I did were PEP's but I could be wrong since you said they use the same setup as works. Maybe they were Axis, i dont remember it was like 6 years ago lol.

[dustin_j]

Riotact, I would assemble the shocks with the springs you have. Bring the top spring retainer down until it just touches the springs (no preload). Same with the rear. Have someone help you measure to see how your sag is in the rear and then measure ride height (front and rear). The goal is 40-50% sag in the rear and the front .25" higher than the rear (frame height). While you're still on the pegs have someone measure your front spring length and compare this to the fully extended spring length; you want about 1" compressed at ride height.

I would take measurements before buying any different springs. Setup is kind of difficult since any adjustment affects all the measurements. Record measurements for each step and preload as well. Start adding preload where you think you need it, and re-measure and record. You'll learn a lot just by looking at these measurements. I can try to help suggest different springs (if needed) if you want to report your findings. For some reason I like this stuff :D.

[riotact]

Will do and thanks for the help :D