Home Protection Question (Hand gun)

[Sjorge450R]

I've never really been into guns growing up, but I have been around, shot plenty, but I don't know much about them.

I now live in a house in North Philadelphia (Pretty much an active war zone) and I am looking to get some sort of hand gun for home protection. I have three other roommates and all of which live upstairs, I am the only on the ground floor. I personally don't think I will have any problems with intruders, but I would like to have something just in case.

My question is, what is a good cheap(er) pistol that will work for what I am looking for. I don't need something fancy, just something to get me by for a worst case scenario.

I should also note that I plan on getting a hold of the NRA and finding a basic pistol or home protection class in my area.

[CJM]

First before you do anything take a pistol course and familiarize yourself with gun handling basics and safety.

You will also want to look up what the laws are regarding home invasion, firearms and use of deadly force.

That being said I would start off with one of 3 weapons:

A good Smith and Wesson .357 revolver that you use .38 specials in (or .357 if you want deader lol). This is a SUPER simple weapon to operate and holds 6 rounds. It is not a cheap gun however but VERY well built, you can usually find them cheaper used tho.

Ruger GP 100, another revolver and simple to operate. .357 and can use .38 special. 6 round capacity. Its a good gun and built very well, bit cheaper than the smith and wesson but it does show (its not as fancy looking).

OR

If you want a semi automatic the only one to go for is a glock. Super simple to operate, easy to clean and SUPER reliable.

I would go with a 9mm or .45 ACP. 9mm gives you more capacity and has good power, .45ACP has less capacity and tends to have more power. Either one really is worth it.

But dont buy anything till you take a course and go talk to your local gun store about what you like. Sometimes they have indoor ranges you can try the guns at too.

[Sjorge450R]

great post CJM. Thanks for the help. I go on winter break soon so I will look into that stuff after finals. I just wanted to use this site (I know many are hunters and such on here) to gain some sort of knowledge on what people are using for home protection so that the people at the stores arent trying to sell me on something that I dont need.

That being said. The subcompact glocks like the glock 26, hows that fair when it comes to what I am looking for?

[extremetrucker]

if all you want it for is home protection and you're not gonna carry it, its hard to beat a good old 12ga shot gun, cheap, simple, and effective, might be messy though lol. that said, as far as pistols, i dont know a lot about revolvers, but as far as autos, i have a beretta .40, i love that gun, also like the ruger sr9, those are fairly economical, well balanced, and hold a lot of rounds, most 1911s are pretty nice too, but when your shopping for any hand gun, get one that fits, they are all different, you should be able to just point and shoot and be fairly accurate at close range with a pistol when they fit well in your hand, go to a gun range, you can usually rent about any gun they have in stock, and see how you like them. and like cjm said, glocks are super reliable well built guns, but i personally dont like them, they dont feel right in my hand, and i have fat hands, and on some models the slide can bite me, not sayin theyre bad, cuz they are great, just my personal preferance

[CJM]

Originally posted by Sjorge450R
great post CJM. Thanks for the help. I go on winter break soon so I will look into that stuff after finals. I just wanted to use this site (I know many are hunters and such on here) to gain some sort of knowledge on what people are using for home protection so that the people at the stores arent trying to sell me on something that I dont need.

That being said. The subcompact glocks like the glock 26, hows that fair when it comes to what I am looking for?

If its just for home protection and your not carrying it (I cant imagine getting the permit in philly anyways) then there is no real point to the compact. If you want a slightly smaller gun than fullsize a carry size might be worth it,t hey are usually an inch or so shorter in overall length than a fullsize.

A shotgun is not what you want unless you expect a whole pile of gangbangers to come knocking, and even then iw ould want a pistol too.

[ridgeracer]

Originally posted by CJM
A shotgun is not what you want unless you expect a whole pile of gangbangers to come knocking, and even then iw ould want a pistol too.
As much as I want a handgun myself, I'll have to disagree with you there. A shotty is much harder to miss with and the Buckshot won't go through walls into a neighbors or roommates room like a 45 will.

Plus you Might not even need bullets lol. NO ONE can mistake the sound of you cocking a shotgun. :devil:

[Pappy]

A shotgun is the best home defense weapon there is period. I would highly recommend one over a handgun in a heartbeat, especially to someone who has limited expierence with a handgun. By all means, take a handgun safety course and buy one if you so choose, but put a shotgun to work for home defense, and with the house being occupied by others a "shoot thru" must be taken very seriously. Buckshot in that situation would not be my choice, either a targeted home defense load or a load of #2's

[mx8]

THE JUDGE, Tarus makes it. It is a 410 or a 45 handgun shoots either. Load it with buckshot, and it will be hard to miss.

[smr]

you want hear me say this often but....I agree with pappy....:D You can't beat a shot gun. They are easy to use and very efective.

Also they are realitively cheap. I bought an 870 express for $125.00 a few years back.

[ben300]

Originally posted by Pappy
A shotgun is the best home defense weapon there is period. I would highly recommend one over a handgun in a heartbeat, especially to someone who has limited expierence with a handgun. By all means, take a handgun safety course and buy one if you so choose, but put a shotgun to work for home defense, and with the house being occupied by others a "shoot thru" must be taken very seriously. Buckshot in that situation would not be my choice, either a targeted home defense load or a load of #2's

I couldnt agree more. Alot of people think hand guns are the best method for home defense. they are a good choice, but there are to many variables than can occur once the gun is fired. if you have others that live directly around you, you have to consider the chance of a bullet passing through a wall and hitting someone.

a shotgun is excellent because it carries a highly effective load, and is excellent in closed quarters. if you do not have alot of experience shooting hand guns, it can be significantly easier to hit something at close range with a shotgun instead of a handgun.

[Ichoptop]

I have quite a few firearms in my house. Most are kept in the gun safe in the basement but like above, the best bet and the one that is in reach from my bed in my old 12 ga. riot model pump. First 2 shells are duck shot and the rest are 00 buckshot. I figure with duck shot it wont kill anyone hopefully and cleanup would be some spackle and paint. If anyone makes it through that and still wants to fight then its time to tear them up.

[RATPACK Z400]

Shotgun for sure If not gun get a dog the second and probably best deterent for intruders they hear dog and dont bother plus they wake you before intruder is standing looking over you if your a heavy sleeper! and buckshot WILL go though walls no problem ! yes some will hit stud but the rest will go thru drywall like paper.I just got German shepard and no one can get within 20ft of my house without her hearing them.

[Sjorge450R]

see. I the reason i didnt say shot gun was because I have no where to put one. I have a lot of friends at my house all the time and the last thing I need is them knowing I have a shotgun in my closet of something. The pistol would be discrete and I could hide it easily and no one would ever know that I have one. I will have to think about it though because now that I think about it, the shot gun sounds like a winner

[reptikes]

Originally posted by CJM
First before you do anything take a pistol course and familiarize yourself with gun handling basics and safety.

You will also want to look up what the laws are regarding home invasion, firearms and use of deadly force.

That being said I would start off with one of 3 weapons:

A good Smith and Wesson .357 revolver that you use .38 specials in (or .357 if you want deader lol). This is a SUPER simple weapon to operate and holds 6 rounds. It is not a cheap gun however but VERY well built, you can usually find them cheaper used tho.

Ruger GP 100, another revolver and simple to operate. .357 and can use .38 special. 6 round capacity. Its a good gun and built very well, bit cheaper than the smith and wesson but it does show (its not as fancy looking).

OR

If you want a semi automatic the only one to go for is a glock. Super simple to operate, easy to clean and SUPER reliable.

I would go with a 9mm or .45 ACP. 9mm gives you more capacity and has good power, .45ACP has less capacity and tends to have more power. Either one really is worth it.

But dont buy anything till you take a course and go talk to your local gun store about what you like. Sometimes they have indoor ranges you can try the guns at too.


First off a .357 is the worst home protection weapon (the bullet will penetrate multiple walls possibly killing or hitting people its not intended for) ... don't listen to this guy. He obviously has know clue what he's talking about.

The all around best home protection weapon would be a shotgun. Don't need much accuracy, just point and pull!

Now if its a handgun you want, go with a .40 or .45

The .40 has the bullet capacity of the 9mm and the stopping power of the .45 (with the right grain bullet).

[One_Bad_400]

Like stated before. With you living in close corters with other people a pistol is not the way to go. You will end up harming or killing someone unintended. or if you want a 410 in a pistol, you can always look into a taurus judge.

Nunchucks is also a very effective home defense tool!

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[CJM]

He asked for a handgun, not a shotgun guys.

Penetration was a key here and thats why I suggested if he wanted a revolver that a .357 would be great IF he used .38 special inside since it is a lower power round. But still it doesnt matter-everything will go thru walls, .45 will go thru walls and so will 9mm. Same as .40, a shotgun or a .22 like I said.

Everything will penetrate-even a measly .22. A shotgun loaded with#4 penetrates just as much as the .22 does.

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot1.htm

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot3.htm

Try it yourself if you dont believe me. About all that wont really penetrate would be birdshot and that might just piss off the intruder. What does work rather well is rock salt loaded in shotgun shells, hurts like hell but wont kill ya.

If you really dont want to harm anyone else in the house for fear of penetration then you need to use a baseball bat.

[Pappy]

Originally posted by Sjorge450R
see. I the reason i didnt say shot gun was because I have no where to put one. I have a lot of friends at my house all the time and the last thing I need is them knowing I have a shotgun in my closet of something. The pistol would be discrete and I could hide it easily and no one would ever know that I have one. I will have to think about it though because now that I think about it, the shot gun sounds like a winner

If I was a lawyer, and you shot someone with this many people around, I would have to ask quite a few questions...just something to think about. You can buy a locking case for the shotgun if this is an issue.

CJM, if you would like a debate on self defense, I am more then capable. Make sure what you post is your knowledge not from a google search engine. Penetration can be equal but the velocity drop will have the shotgun load shedding energy alot faster then a 22. And you NEVER shoot to wound. You shoot to kill, so ditch the idea of rocksalt unless you want to die at the hands of someone who will kill you when your shot doesnt drop them or face as much or more legal reprocussion for firing your less then lethal load then the would be attacker/intruder.

The internet cracks me up.


**Reptikes, the .357 is a fine home defense caliber. Loaded with frangible rounds, penetration is not an issue. You can load 38 wadcutters in it that will lower the penetration numbers as well, albiet at the cost of knock down power.

[Pappy]

Here is a target testing the spread on the new PDX Home defense ammo for the Judge/410. Distance was 15 feet. the "disc's" hit dead center.

[Sjorge450R]

Pappy your right about the internet thing. Too much wrong info out there. Thats why I figured I would ask you guys here. Actually I was hoping that you would respond. I think the gun case/shotgun is probably what I am going to go for after I get through a few of the NRA classes.

[Pappy]

Steve, there isnt always a "right" or "correct" depending on the given situation. Here, a shotgun and handguns are first out and over penetration isnt an issue, opposite of your deal. There are however facts that can help or better steer someone to the best choices, with alot of opinion thrown in, but you have to be very very careful these days with everything....all the while making sure you are fully defended.

[quad2xtreme]

Originally posted by One_Bad_400
Like stated before. With you living in close corters with other people a pistol is not the way to go. You will end up harming or killing someone unintended. or if you want a 410 in a pistol, you can always look into a taurus judge.

Nunchucks is also a very effective home defense tool!

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LOL all 5 times I watched it...and still laughing!

[reptikes]

Originally posted by Pappy


**Reptikes, the .357 is a fine home defense caliber. Loaded with frangible rounds, penetration is not an issue. You can load 38 wadcutters in it that will lower the penetration numbers as well, albiet at the cost of knock down power.
\


I know that Pappy. But why not just tell him to get a .38 then?

[Pappy]

Originally posted by reptikes
\


I know that Pappy. But why not just tell him to get a .38 then?

Because there is no disadvantage to the 357, which will allow him the choice of 2 cartridges instead of limiting him to only the 38. get more for your money...lol

[CJM]

Originally posted by reptikes
\


I know that Pappy. But why not just tell him to get a .38 then?

Me, I want versatility. .357 allows .38 and .357 so why not?

Pap you are right about shotguns velocity being dropping overall. Still, inside a home even an 18 inch bbl is a bit unwieldy and a capacity of even 9 or 9 rounds might not be enough if you got a full carload of bangers coming at you. Maybe both a pistol and a shotgun would be a viable option.

As for the rock salt thing, farmers often used to use it around here to scare off the idiot kids. Its meant to hurt like bean bags and does. Course when your living in gangbanger land it might not be a good idea.

Where you live vs where he lives if he shoots and kills someone he probably will go to jail, where you live you might be investigated but assuming you can prove your in the right your good to go. In his case he is damned if he does and damned if he dont. Its philly...

If you can swing it, might be a good idea to move to a safer area.

[Sjorge450R]

Originally posted by CJM

If you can swing it, might be a good idea to move to a safer area.

I go to school at Temple University, so I really cant go anywhere else right now. I love the city, but next year I plan on moving out of the hood and down into South Philly where not much goes on due to the protection from the mob. Either way, this is an investment that I will probably have for awhile.

[440racer66]

Originally posted by CJM
Me, I want versatility. .357 allows .38 and .357 so why not?

Pap you are right about shotguns velocity being dropping overall. Still, inside a home even an 18 inch bbl is a bit unwieldy and a capacity of even 9 or 9 rounds might not be enough if you got a full carload of bangers coming at you. Maybe both a pistol and a shotgun would be a viable option.

As for the rock salt thing, farmers often used to use it around here to scare off the idiot kids. Its meant to hurt like bean bags and does. Course when your living in gangbanger land it might not be a good idea.

Where you live vs where he lives if he shoots and kills someone he probably will go to jail, where you live you might be investigated but assuming you can prove your in the right your good to go. In his case he is damned if he does and damned if he dont. Its philly...

If you can swing it, might be a good idea to move to a safer area.


haha rock salt like a bean bag more like bird shot that dissolves in you. and if your nit carefull you can kill with rocksalt. but if it were me i would have a judge with the defence ammo and some 45 long colts for it. but my first choice would be a 12 gauge.

[CJM]

Originally posted by Sjorge450R
I go to school at Temple University, so I really cant go anywhere else right now. I love the city, but next year I plan on moving out of the hood and down into South Philly where not much goes on due to the protection from the mob. Either way, this is an investment that I will probably have for awhile.

Your call really in the end.

I think the best thing to do is go down to a gun store that has a range and allows you to shoot various guns.

[ridgeracer]

x2

Good idea if you are interested in trying out handguns for sure.

[One_Bad_400]

Originally posted by CJM
9 rounds might not be enough if you got a full carload of bangers coming at you. Maybe both a pistol and a shotgun would be a viable option.


If the kid is doing something bad enough where he is going to have a car load of "bangers" coming after him. we might need to look at some stronger stuff then shotty's and 9mm's lol


When i have a car load of bangers after me, i use C4 and .223

[dpizz450]

I purchased a glock .40 (model 22, fullsize) this summer for home defense. I love it. Very reliable gun. Got me a 22 round clip for it. Stock clip was 15 rounds. I was kind of in the same position as you. I didn't know a whole lot about handguns and never really shot them before. Luckily, I have friends that are very experienced with them that taught me how to shoot, gun safety, etc.

If you don't have anyone experienced enough that your close with to teach you, then deff take a class or two. A lot of gun safety is common sense. Never point it at someone, never have finger on trigger unless your shooting, etc.

Be sure to check out your state laws about home defense. Castle doctrine, etc. I know here in Louisiana, if i feel my life is threatened by an intruder then I can use lethal force. Also in Louisiana, your vehicle is an extension of your home. The same laws for your home also go to your vehicle. You also can't shoot someone in the back if they're running away.

[quad59]

I didnt read all of this but in my house is a tactical shotgun, wife can fire from the hip and do enough damage if I'm not home. A newb handler in an adrenaline situation is going to make for a miss. Especially if you talking about a home invasion scenario in a house, in low light.