450r rear end on 400ex

[2001400exrida]

Hey all, long time creeper first time poster.

I recently picked up a used 400ex. After riding it and pretty much trashing the rear axle, I purchased a full honda 450r rear end. Swingarm, axle and sprocket, brake caliper, rotor, some linkage, bearing carrier. 284.00 on ebay.

says it's the complete rear end and it would bolt straight up to the 400ex.

Is this true? Will the 450r swinger bolt up with the stock shock and stock swinger mounts on a 400ex?

Has anybody ever done this? It seems like it should be a common mod. I plan to get a couple inches in width and maybe like 1 1/2 in legnth.

[Thumpin440ex]

Yes pretty sure it will bolt up. Also depending on what year it is, it is a 1-2 inches longer then the 400 swinger


John

[2001400exrida]

cool i'm excited to get it mounted! will my stock chain and front sprocket work with the stock 450r sprocket?

[Thumpin440ex]

I do believe they are the same also, or will work.. You might have to get a longer chain though..


John

[2001400exrida]

i'm betting this chain has enough use to be long enough haha.

[f419sr1]

let us know how you make out

[dang400ex]

You have to use a 400ex sprocket. The swingarm will bolt up normal. The chain will have enough slack depending on what year or 450r swinger it is.

[416racer]

I think the 450r swingers are only like 3/4 of an inch longer.

[2001400exrida]

ok i'll use my 400ex sprocket. What about the locknuts? do i need to get 450r lock nuts or can i use my 400ex lock nuts?

[-TheDude-]

it will not work, The 450R has a narrower carrier, so it will throw off the chain alignment, shoulda just saved your money buying all that and got an aftermarket 400ex swinger

[togup]

buy a RAD nut use the stock nuts for a trout line thats all they are good for

[grassman]

http://www.exriders.com/vbb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=409824&highlight=swingarm+450r

[hiway6969]

it will work, im running a 450r rear/carrier/and 450r g force axle. i had to make two little spacers to space out the chain slider, and about the chain, get a new chain, if you trashed the 400ex rear that probably means the chain and sprockets arent far behind. along with the spacing of the slider i run the front sprocket flipped around. works fine for me and i race woods so its got plenty of testing done. and as for the length i havent measured it but they look the same just holding them side by side. im using a 400 ex shock and linkage with no problems. if you already have the rear end put it on, if not then buy 400ex stuff to save the headach

[-TheDude-]

the 05 and below are the same length as a 400ex, 06 and up are about 1 1/4 inch longer

[chronicsmoke]

I think the 06+ are 3/4" longer..

I'm doing the same thing to mine, Swingarm was effed on the ex, so im using the whole assembly (shock, linkages, carrier, axle, hubs) to try and fit it in. And i'm getting all new for my 450. I got an 07 swinger thats going to be 3/4" longer than my 05. As I understand, the 400ex/04-05 450r swingers are the same length.

hiway6969: Could you post some pics of what your talking about when you say you had to make spacers?

[2001400exrida]

I'll try to stay posted on this topic. My parts should be here soon.

Whoever said i should have gotten the 400ex parts doesn't understand what we are going for.

400ex replacement parts wouldn't be that much cheaper, especially considering what all i got for the money. I know it's about the same but it's gonna be a little wider.

I'm going to try to use the 400ex axle lock nuts and the 400ex swingarm bolt........and maybe the hubs and swingarm chain guard/guide. What about skid plates will they all mount up on this swingarm?

[2001400exrida]

Originally posted by -TheDude-
the 05 and below are the same length as a 400ex, 06 and up are about 1 1/4 inch longer

you must be clueless or just all around negative.

The 400ex swinger is shorter than ANY 450r swinger...that includes the old 450r swingers as well.

Also, it will work i've already seen several successful posts on this mod!

geeeeez.

[chronicsmoke]

I have my ex and R swingers sitting side by side in the shop.. I'll take some measurements to be sure and post them on here.. my 450 swinger is an 05

[-TheDude-]

Originally posted by 2001400exrida
you must be clueless or just all around negative.

The 400ex swinger is shorter than ANY 450r swinger...that includes the old 450r swingers as well.


im not negative at all and hardly clueless, without a bunch of modifications theres no reason to go through all the trouble to put a 450 swinger on a 400ex. and if you dont put the spacers in all your doing is messing up your drive, you said you spent $284 on all the 450 stuff, plus you will prob have to spend another $100 on chain and sprockets, take that cost plus all the time its gonna take to space everything out and install. is it really worth it when u can just buy an aftermarket lsr extended swinger that bolts right up using your factory carrier for like $200-$250, even a used one is stronger then a factory 450r swinger and they are guaranteed for life against bends or breaks even if your not the original owner, you just send it back. you asked for opinions so i gave mine, if you dont want to get opinions you wont agree with maybe you shouldnt ask for them at all. i just dont see going through all the trouble when there are easier solutions to the problem

the old 450 and 400 are the same length, the 06+ 450 are longer. i tried to find it on the net but cant find the exact measurements, ill call service honda tomorrow and confirm it and post the measurements they tell me

[2001400exrida]

i'm not really going through any extra trouble with this.

I bought a beater 400ex and the rear splines were shredded on the axle.

So i'm doing the 450r rear end upgrade. That is from the swingarm back everything will be 450r parts.

It's worth it to me homey. You're not exactly giving opinions either, i have no trouble listening to opinions.

i'm putting the 450r carrier in the 450r singarm just like it was meant to be.

[-TheDude-]

Originally posted by 2001400exrida
you, however, are making false statements like the one about the swingarms being the same size. not true! it might only be 3/4 longer but it's longer, and the axle will be wider. I'm not putting a 400ex carrier in a 450r swingarm, i'm putting the 450r carrier in the 450r singarm just like it was meant to be.
i never said they were all the same size the 06+ are about and inch longer, the 05 and below are the same length as a 400ex . i emailed service honda for the actual specs and am waiting for a response

and i am telling you that if you put a 450 swinger with a 450 carrier bearing in it it will not be the same width as a 400ex swinger. That is a fact that has been said by more then one person in this very thred. i never said anything about putting a 400 ex bearing in a 450 swinger. so unless you modify it the sprockets it will not line up correctly

[2001400exrida]

u said it again.

the 05 and below are NOT the same length as the 400ex swing-arm. it's less than an inch longer but it is longer than the 400ex.

I'll let you guys know how my 450r axle and carrier and swingarm fit when i do the install. I've seen it done and the sprockets seemed to line up just fine, otherwise i wouldn't have been convinced to buy this rear end.

i'll let you know how it goes lebowski ;)

if they don't line up i guess i will be looking for a 400ex carrier then.


Originally posted by -TheDude-
it will not work, The 450R has a narrower carrier, so it will throw off the chain alignment, shoulda just saved your money buying all that and got an aftermarket 400ex swinger

In this very thread, YOU were the person to say it won't line up.

nobody else.....

if you look shortly after your post there is a fella who says it will work and he's running it with the 450r swinger and carrier, with the front sprocket turned around.

[2001400exrida]

I got the swingarm bolt out, holy cow that thing is a BIZNATCH!

I ended up using a plasma cutter and cutting it out, does anybody know where i can get the swingarm pivot bolt bushing? i bought the bolt and nut but i don't know where to get just the sleeve thing.

[CJM]

Originally posted by 2001400exrida
I got the swingarm bolt out, holy cow that thing is a BIZNATCH!

I ended up using a plasma cutter and cutting it out, does anybody know where i can get the swingarm pivot bolt bushing? i bought the bolt and nut but i don't know where to get just the sleeve thing.

Dealer or ebay really is it.

[chronicsmoke]

I just finished the swap, except brake pads and it worked fine. I used the stock 400ex link but everything else came directly off of my 05 450r.

[chronicsmoke]

another

[CJM]

Not much to really gain from it, a whole 3/4 inch longer. Do wonder if it would work well tho b/c most extended swingers are 1 1/4 inches so your only off by 1/2 of an inch.

But I knew it would fit all along :)

[chronicsmoke]

yah i knew it would fit too, but some people were saying that the sprockets wouldnt line up, but they are perfect and I'm using the 450r sprocket hub.

I really didnt do this as a mod, the 400 swinger was beyond repairable (Swinger, bearings, break rotor, axle, hubs, everything was in rough shape), so i got an 07 for my 450 and I'm going to run that one. I'm sure it wont really affect much, but if Im going to spend money on a new swingarm, I'm going to put the better one on my 450. And now I've got breaks!

[2001400exrida]

yeah i was the same way, my stock 400ex rear was pretty well beat up. I was able to get the whole rear for a good price so i figured hey i'll do that and then the front shocks and i basically have a 450 with a 400ex frame and motor.

i still can't find the spacer all by itself though, i bought the axle bolt and nut which was like 25 bucks but i can't find the spacer.

[chronicsmoke]

what spacer are you looking for?

The only thing that I donmt have dialed in is the rear shock.. its stiff as compared to when the complete set up was on my 450r. But maybe its the fron pogo sticks that make the ride harsh. I changed the 450r link because everyone said it made the seat height too low.. but it feels nice with the ex linkage, i think it still dropped the rear end a bit. This ex is going to be hitting some 40+foot jumps this year, so hopefully I can get it dialed in. My brother who rides it is like 40 pounds lighter than me too, so the rear end might be good for him.. Im trying to find him a pair od +2s to go with my stock 450r shocks for X-mas..

Anyone got a set of +2s kicken around?:cool:

[2001400exrida]

i'm looking for the spacer that goes on the swingarm pivot bolt. The big bolt that mounts to the motor and the frame on the front of the swingarm.

i can't find that little metal sleeve/spacer.

[2001400exrida]

ok i figured it out. those things are called collars and i need 2 of them, one for each side of the swingarm. apparentl the other one is not visible since it's it's in the left side swingarm housing but you can see it stick out of the right side housing on a stock older 400ex rear end. right by the motor mount.

did you guys use your stock 400ex collars when you did this swap out or did you buy new collars or do you have to use them with the 450r swinger or what>?

[chronicsmoke]

I'm not sure what you're talking about, I bought the All Balls kit made for the 400ex and put all of the pieces in and it worked. The kit includes; two needle bearings, to sleeve spacers, two dust seals for the inside of the bearings, a seal for the outside diameter of the swinger, two metal bushings and the dust caps from the stock swinger that go right against the frame and seal everything in. Everything went in nice with a vise as my press and some grease.. Fits like a glove

[Honda5]

Yes use your 400ex ones

[2001400exrida]

Originally posted by chronicsmoke
I'm not sure what you're talking about, I bought the All Balls kit made for the 400ex and put all of the pieces in and it worked. The kit includes; two needle bearings, to sleeve spacers, two dust seals for the inside of the bearings, a seal for the outside diameter of the swinger, two metal bushings and the dust caps from the stock swinger that go right against the frame and seal everything in. Everything went in nice with a vise as my press and some grease.. Fits like a glove

the swingarm i purchased comes complete with all the bearings and seals up where it mounts. The only thing i have to get is the axle bolt and these collars.

I had to hack off my old swingarm because the swingarm pivot bolt was seized up real good. So we used a plasma cutter to chop that bolt and the swingarm in several places. There ain't no using the stock parts haha.

so, my 450r swingarm is complete with the carrier bearing and everything, so all i need is that bolt and the collars. apparently the collars fit into the swingarm housing where the swingarm bearings are correct?

[chronicsmoke]

yah the collers are your spacers also.. they turn inside of the needle bearings and are a couple of inches long. they go on each side of the motor and run into the swinger and bearing. I havent looked at their price from an OEM dealership, but if the needle bearings are even questionable, i'd spend the 50 bucks and get all new to save yourself the trouble later. If those bearings wear prematurely, then youll be in the same boat with a plasma cutter..

But if the bearings are alright, then order the parts you need when you order a new pivot bolt from a place like rivaracing.com

[hiway6969]

it'll be cheaper to just buy swing arm bearing kit from pivot works for a 400ex. the bearings are identical on the 450 and 400 but the collars/spacers are different. just get a 400ex kit, and you'll be fine.

[chronicsmoke]

Originally posted by hiway6969
it'll be cheaper to just buy swing arm bearing kit from pivot works for a 400ex. the bearings are identical on the 450 and 400 but the collars/spacers are different. just get a 400ex kit, and you'll be fine.


Si, Senor:bandit:

[2001400exrida]

Originally posted by hiway6969
it'll be cheaper to just buy swing arm bearing kit from pivot works for a 400ex. the bearings are identical on the 450 and 400 but the collars/spacers are different. just get a 400ex kit, and you'll be fine.

my swingarm is almost brand new and the bearings are in good shape. there's no reason to rebuild teh swingarm bearings.

i can get both collars for 20 bucks so that's my cheapest route. can't wait to get this bad boy on this weekend! i hope the sprockets line up.

[chronicsmoke]

they should line up.. I didnt modify anything, just a straight bolt up and ride

[2001400exrida]

Alright i got it mounted! gotta hook up the rear brake line and caliper then i'm done.

Does anyboyd know if the 450r front a arms will bolt on to the 400ex frame?

i'm putting 450 front shocks on and i'd like to get the front as wide as the rear is.

[chronicsmoke]

No they arent the same.. I looked at making my own mounting tabs to make it work.. then I could have swapped front ends from the 426 to the 450 but I found a set of +3s instead..

Some people have made the swap.. dont know how much wider it makes you though.

[Thumpin440ex]

The 450 isn't but a inch wider.. I wouldn't waste my time trying to fab something up to get the 450 arms working on the 400.

John

[hiway6969]

i cant remember if its the tops or bottoms that have similar mounting measurements but the other is off by like 2 inches. as far as a arms go get after market ones, but i would put them 450 shocks on though. i run 05 450 shocks and 400 ex arms that i have modified to have z400 houser removable/adjustable ball joints, which gave me about an inch of width. i race woods so any wider than that wouldnt help me much

[2001400exrida]

Originally posted by Thumpin440ex
The 450 isn't but a inch wider.. I wouldn't waste my time trying to fab something up to get the 450 arms working on the 400.

John

after putting the 450r rear end on i can see taht my rear end is wider than my front tires. I'd like to get them a little closer.

everybody says it's "only an inch wider" u can set my 400ex next to a stock one and notice the difference with my 450r rear end. I was just wondering what it would take to get the front out wider too.

[hiway6969]

I run 450 swinger and 450 g force axle but I run xc so I flipped my rear hubs. But if your on a budget and want to match the front to the rear get some spacers. I've never ran any so I can't judge em but the g force ones look sturdy, and r cheaper than a arms .

[chronicsmoke]

Yah, I've got spacers on the front of my 660 Raptor with a LSR+4 axle. It doesnt handle the greastest with spacers, the YFZ front shocks help alot. Ive jumped 30+ feet tables with it and they have held up so far.. and thats a big bike to land on spacers with.

Just dont get the stud extention spacers! JUNKK

But keep your eyes peeled for deals on a-arms. I picked up a set of +3s for 225 from the classifieds and a set of +2s for 170 from ebay - (Nobody outbid me on the +2s after I already bought the +3s)

You'll notice a difference over spacers once you get arms!
Spacers tend to push more in corners..

[trailrider894]

Okay. This is my second time reading through this thread... It is quite helpful, but leaves some things kinda foggy in my opinion. Now can i ask that somebody post a parts list of what EXACTLY is needed in order to install the +05 450r Swingarm, with the 400ex bearing carrier and other hardware. I really would like to have a solid answer, because everyone keeps arguing about it....

[chronicsmoke]

I dont know about the carrier/axle. But the swinger itself will bolt up perfect after you order the pivot bearing kit for the 400ex.

I used everything from a 450, and it went together fine.

The only question that I'd have id if the sprockets line up correctly using the 400ex carrier.. an 1/8" (what they said the difference is)would probably chew your sprockets if its not lined up.. But it might line up fine, I've got no clue..

Hopefully someone knows the answer!

[2001400exrida]

Originally posted by trailrider894
Okay. This is my second time reading through this thread... It is quite helpful, but leaves some things kinda foggy in my opinion. Now can i ask that somebody post a parts list of what EXACTLY is needed in order to install the +05 450r Swingarm, with the 400ex bearing carrier and other hardware. I really would like to have a solid answer, because everyone keeps arguing about it....

since i just did this i can tell you exactly what i'm using off of my 400ex because i'm trying to use mostly 450r parts.

I used the 450r swingarm with the 400ex swingarm pivot bolt. Now, the 450r swingarm collars are both the same size, on the 400ex however the colllar on the left side is shorter (if your'e standing behind the quad).

you need to put the 400ex left side collar in the 450r left side swingarm bearing

i also had to purchase a 450r swingarm chain guide thingy, my 400ex one would not bolt up. Everything else is 450r parts on mine since they all botl up to the swingarm at this point.

[2001400exrida]

one quick question. does anybody know what size the bolts are that hold the 450r stock swingarm guard on? I'm putting the stock plastic one on my 450r swinger and i can't find the bolt size to mount it.

[2001400exrida]

nobody knows eh?

[CJM]

probably 10mmx1.0 thread pitch. You can get them at home depot or lowes or whatever.

I have a metric bolt set I spent like 20 bucks on at pepboys thats come in handy an AWFUL lot. Well worth it.

[2001400exrida]

i got it on thanks for the sizes and pointers along the way guys.

I also put my 450r front shocks on.

It's hard to say but i ended up taking CJM's advice on this matter. It seemed like i was going to have to take off way to much of the shock to get it in there so i just cut a tiny part out of the frame right where he showed a picture with a circle on it.

shocks bolted up good, the a arms stand taller i noticed so i really need to get some bigger a arms for cheap.

[trailrider894]

Originally posted by 2001400exrida
i got it on thanks for the sizes and pointers along the way guys.

I also put my 450r front shocks on.

It's hard to say but i ended up taking CJM's advice on this matter. It seemed like i was going to have to take off way to much of the shock to get it in there so i just cut a tiny part out of the frame right where he showed a picture with a circle on it.

shocks bolted up good, the a arms stand taller i noticed so i really need to get some bigger a arms for cheap.

Check the parts sections on here sometimes they go cheap. Just avoid those brands like full-flight. The have horid heim joints.

[CJM]

Yes avoid arms with hiem joints.

hehe I told ya lol. I really am not sure why people think grinding is ok but they do it. The frame mods are super simple right?

To lower the ride height a bit and improve handling adjust the preload by moving the metal rings at the top of the shock. What this does is match the shock for your weight a bit.

Heres some good info: http://atv.off-road.com/atv/review/finally-the-shocking-story-of-how-to-tune-your-suspension-20659.html

For reference I weigh about 200lbs and have mine set about 1/4 lower than the top threads. I might take it down a notch further or so, but going from total stock with it all the way adjusted out to this really made it feel much better and improved handling.