More power

[CJM]

So I find myself at a crossroads: What to do to add more overall torque.

416, 11:1, stg 2 hotcam, mild port and polish, slip on and header welds ground down. 20 in rear tires and 22 fronts.

At the local dunes I have ok power, but not enough to really climb the dunes to well. If I try the larger dunes I must pin it or be at least 3/4 throttle in 2nd most of the time. 1st is useless and if I gain enough speed 3rd is ok but that rarely happens. I mostly run 2nd to 4th and occasionally run all out Otherwise I dont think I need the overall topend, its nice to have since I can pull on the 450R's (yea really im totally serious I raced a few today and came out neck and neck or on top) but I tend not to go overall that fast and mostly hill climb.

So what to do:
-39 rear sprocket gives me slightly better torque according to the converter http://home.earthlink.net/~gellett/400ex.htm

-drop front sprocket to a 14, but will this give me enough top end since it drops me 4mph? I tried a 16 for top end just to see and was unhappy with lowend.

-+3 key by wheelie. I can get 100 octane but it isnt easy to come by here at all.

-Change to a stage 1 hotcam, although I will lose the more topend power how bad is it?



Any ideas? Im thinking cheapest thing to do is change the sprockets. Im at 15/38 now and might try 14/38 or 15/39.

Thanks much for the help guys :)

[3400ben]

What type of paddles tires do you have? The right paddles will do wonders in sand.

[togup]

Have you considered it might be a tire issue? Maybe borrow a set from a friend you dune with just for kicks.

[3400ben]

What about a bigger carb? 15/39 you won't notice a difference. You would have to go 3 or 4 on the rear to notice a difference. Imo

[CJM]

Dont have paddles, cant borrow any but my friends totally worn out set he is using right now. Guys using itps and razors seem to have no issues and neither does the guy running a totally stock 450r w/ stock tires.

Im not having issue with it slipping, it grabs quite well as I can ride the sides of the dunes with ease. Just seems lacking on the lowend

Was gonna do 450r carb over this winter. Just not in the cards right now.

Think maybe the 14t might be worth it, I really am not getting out of 4th at best unless I drag.

thanks again.

[3400ben]

Going to a 14 on the front will help. I know it might not be in the budget but paddles will make the biggest difference by far. Sand robs a lot of power.

[CJM]

Ill give it a try, only 20 bucks for the sprocket so not much to lose.

[honda400ex2003]

i say get a key from wheelie. that will help with the mid and top end with that. maybe a 6 degree with the stage 1 for more low end torque without sacrificing too much top end. imo the 29 would be nice to not get too drastic with top end loss, i really think that the 14 just hurts the top end too much to see any benefit out of it. although, if you arent getting out of 4th then the 14 will probably be better. steve

[CJM]

Nah I really never get outta 4th at best unless Im racing someone around and even then its not to much. Sand pits just not open enough and the terrains ok but to rough to really go WOT.

[atv fan 28]

If you are riding dunes and dont have a paddle tire then you are fighting a loosing battle. If you plan on riding the dunes alot, then seriously think about getting some paddles. Skat Trak would be my first choice, but it depends on what you can afford. I bet with some paddles you could climb them hills without any problems whatsoever.

[CJM]

Ill look into paddles, but in reality I still dont have much lowend power.

When I originally had done the entire setup I had planned on running an area where lowend wasnt really needed-just some really nice fast riding fireroads where mid to top end was needed.

Anyways for now im gonna try the 14t sprocket. its cheap and if I dont like it ill just sell it.

[bherriman]

This is just my experience with the 450r carb, but it moved the power up some in the rpm range. I have heard some others say this also, just something to consider.

[bherriman]

This is just my experience with the 450r carb, but it moved the power up some in the rpm range. I have heard some others say this also, just something to consider.

[CJM]

Interesting info, will have to see how everything goes.

[honda400ex2003]

also a good mod is the choke removal. it would be worth a shot anyway. it is a bit more of a mid and top end deal also but helps with throttle response too. steve

[rubbersdown]

could throw a turbo from some junkyard volvo on it! Thatd make it go a little faster! Plus it would just be a fun project lol! :macho :scary: :chinese: :eek2: :D

[CJM]

Originally posted by rubbersdown
could throw a turbo from some junkyard volvo on it! Thatd make it go a little faster! Plus it would just be a fun project lol! :macho :scary: :chinese: :eek2: :D

yea sure why not, while im at it hows some nitrous sound?

[trailrider894]

Originally posted by CJM
yea sure why not, while im at it hows some nitrous sound?

eh... better check your muffler bearings... they are probably going out.

[CJM]

Originally posted by trailrider894
eh... better check your muffler bearings... they are probably going out.

Yea, do you have a butt dyno I can borrow to make sure its got power?

[trailrider894]

Originally posted by CJM
Yea, do you have a butt dyno I can borrow to make sure its got power?

Yeah... Heard Target was having a sale might be able to pick on up. The lady down the street definitly has a BIG one... :eek2:

[CJM]

Originally posted by trailrider894
Yeah... Heard Target was having a sale might be able to pick on up. The lady down the street definitly has a BIG one... :eek2:

I was more thinking along the lines of this one: http://kalecoauto.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=41

[trailrider894]

Originally posted by CJM
I was more thinking along the lines of this one: http://kalecoauto.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=41

Ah... i see. Let me know how that works, i have been interested for some time... but you might try this to fix your top-end problems. http://kalecoauto.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=6&products_id=28

[rubbersdown]

Originally posted by CJM
yea sure why not, while im at it hows some nitrous sound?
Exactly! In all seriousness, you would be surprised how much paddles will help in the dunes even if it feels like you getting traction now. Look on craigslist, I got a set of paddle for my wifes 400ex for $75 and their like new. I see deals like that on paddle all the time. Besides the paddles it seems like you have a good setup. If anything might help you I would think the stage 1 cam and if you got the $$$ compression is the best bang for the buck so run a 12.5:1 and rock the 100 octane. It does suck having to track down race gas if its hard to come by in your town though.

Bone stock 400ex with paddles at glamis. Takeoff was a dune that was at least 200' tall. Just saying paddles help A LOT. Had enough speed up the hill that we were jumping over 100' by the end of the day.

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c368/rubbersdown/Ryanjump.jpg

[CJM]

The dunes Im at arent nearly as tall, just seems the gearing isnt really working to well.

I basically need to pin it since it doesnt make any real lowend torque.

For now I need a new chain anyways too so Im gonna try sprockets. Should I find a stage 1 hot cam I might give that a shot later to lower the powerband.

[hocman123]

man sometimes u can be really stubbern flipper just do what i am doing to do (we ride in the same place) and get some paddles

[CJM]

Originally posted by hocman123
man sometimes u can be really stubbern flipper just do what i am doing to do (we ride in the same place) and get some paddles

Ride mine and find out that I lack torque bud. Thats how Im able to keep up with them 450's got the highend speed. Plus I need a new rear sprocket and the chain is kaput but not as bad as yours.

You should be one to talk, at least I go...you gonna go with us or sit at home?

[togup]

do you do any mud or water riding, if not dump the air box, i my self have no air box just a velocity intake mounted to a 42mm keihin mine breathes so much air you wouldnt believe the torque but I am not into riding in deep water

[CJM]

Originally posted by togup
do you do any mud or water riding, if not dump the air box, i my self have no air box just a velocity intake mounted to a 42mm keihin mine breathes so much air you wouldnt believe the torque but I am not into riding in deep water

No water, but it can be quite muddy.

I already basically dont have a lid on the box cause of the outwears filter where you cut a hole in the lid.

Im sure ill be happy with the sprockets. If not I needed a new chain and rear sprocket anyways-front 15t is pretty good still.

My main issue is I could really use that lowend climbing up the dunes since most of them are step ups that have been carved out.

[togup]

yea i have a14,15,and a 16 i swap out occasionally for sand or top end it makes a noticable difference

[CJM]

^ Considering I need the torque and dont get outta 4th usually Im gonna try the 14T and see how it goes.

[CJM]

Well I got everything and put it on.

I do not know however which way the wheels actually spin (cant start it now its to late anyways) as the chain instructions (written in engrish no less) said to "put open end of masterlink opposite the way chain drive" or something like that.

So I put the open clip end (if your looking at the atv, the link is on the top part of the chain) facing towards the front of the atv.

[rubbersdown]

open end faces away from the front of the bike if its on top. You want the closed end to go around the sprocket first so if your chain hits something it wont knock the clip off.

[CJM]

Thats what I thought. I changed it so that the open end faces the axle now. The directions suck, it took me and a friend like 10 mins to try and understand it and realize I had it on backwards.

Now I just hope it doesnt hit my skid, seems awfully close and its adjusted right.

Even funnier is I coulda sworn I had a 38T rear. After counting the teeth like 10x its a 39T. Odd combination, stocker front is labeled-rear Im not sure what it is says nothing. Looks like Im gonna have more torque than planned for :)