Top end loss from aftermarket cam

[99400esex]

Whatsup guys. I noticed today when I was out riding that I lost some topend after the cam install. Im guessing thats a normal thing but I could care less since the bottom end power is wayyyyyyyy better. My question is, would the 416 kit improve the top end much? It would probably gain all the way through the rpms? Thanks!

[CJM]

The stage 1 hotcam gives you lowend and you lose on the top-just the way its designed. Of course adding a few cc's always helps.

All depends on the kinda trails you ride. I find perhaps it mighta been better to go for stage 1 since I ride in dunes and alot of it is short jumps and hill climbs, but the stage 2 with my 416 and whats in my sig works really good imho.

[99400esex]

Ok just wondering man. I started riding in this new place and its alot of wide open fields, since then I noticed the top end loss, no biggee though, the low end hit excites me alot more than flying across a field anyways. I think my next step is gonna be some 450r suspension cuz the stock front shocks on these things are garbage.

[CJM]

450r shocks help alot, but man I need to adjust mine a bit cause there are alot of small whoops where I ride and it makes for some fun bouncing along.

[99400esex]

Yeah surprisingly the stock ex shocks seem to handle small whoops pretty well, especially the rear.

[Muddytoy07]

Just did the 450r shocks today and it is a big improvement over the stock shocks and was a lot cheaper then doing a full upgrade to like Fox, or another shocks. I also did the Stage 2 Hot Cam and Big Gun Rev Box, Yoshi full exhaust, to go along with my K&N filter with no Lid, 2'' rear billet spacers, and 1.5'' front spacers.

[99400esex]

Originally posted by Muddytoy07
Just did the 450r shocks today and it is a big improvement over the stock shocks and was a lot cheaper then doing a full upgrade to like Fox, or another shocks. I also did the Stage 2 Hot Cam and Big Gun Rev Box, Yoshi full exhaust, to go along with my K&N filter with no Lid, 2'' rear billet spacers, and 1.5'' front spacers.

I wouldnt use spacers on the front if I were you. Makes ride quality and handling go wayyyyyyyy down, plus they put stress on the wrong parts.

[Muddytoy07]

I dont see whats wrong with spacers on the front, I mean its not like its a 4'' spacer. A 1 1/8'' spacer wont kill anything.

[CJM]

You dont want to run spacers at all. They are not strong enough to put up with the stress they will endure usually.

As for why not to run them on the front-they put undue stress on the balljoints and a-arms as well as the studs of the spacers themselves.

There is a good reason VERY few run them. I never personally saw it happen-but it is widely know if your rough on the machine they can and will snap-how about snapping when you hit a jump or something?

[Muddytoy07]

I know I have read all about those issues with snapping a stud but I have run spacers on all my quads for almost 10 years now and never hurt anything, i dont ride it hard enough to worry about that, i dont MX it and most abuse it gets is from 3 and 4 gear wheelies down the street and the corn fields. I really just do light trail riding and flat tracking in the back 40 behind the house.

[honda400ex2003]

on the topic of top end, get a 6 degree key ;) you will enjoy the top end to go with the low end of the cam imo. im not touching the whole spacer debate though. i is too late at night for that argument lol. steve

[CJM]

Hey man, your call with the spacers. Cant say I told you so as its your choice tho.

[slightlybent47]

Read this and then tell us, spacers don’t hurt anything.
http://www.exriders.com/vbb/showthread.php?threadid=300433
If you are riding hard enough to want and use the extra power that you have upgraded to, then you are riding hard enough to be at a high risk of breaking the spacers. Even though you have had no issues with them so far, it only takes one time to end your riding career, so why take the risk?

[99400esex]

I don't know anything about the +6 keys Steve. What is the install like? Where can I buy one? How much? Thanks for the suggestion

[honda400ex2003]

the install is pretty easy and it is around 28 bucks or so with shipping from sparks racing.

install:
http://www.atvriders.com/articles/timingkey400ex.html


sparks site:
http://www.alwaysopenmall.com/layouts/02/unsecure/item.asp?SiteID=223&DepartmentID=85&CategoryID=949&GroupID=7033&ItemID=31633&StartNum=1&Sort=&ShowPics=0&ListByCode=1&Brand=&GenderAgeGroupID=0&MaxPrice=&SearchString=&ItemCode=&IsOnlyOnSale=0&FromHomePage=0&FromFamily=0&ProductFamilyID=0&RelatedItemID=0

steve

[99400esex]

What does it do as far as power wise?

[honda400ex2003]

gives better throttle response and top end. steve

[99400esex]

Ok thanks Steve. I will definitely look into it. Did you use rtv sealant on the cover or did u order another gasket?

[honda400ex2003]

i suggest just getting a full gasket kit to go along with the key. then you have the full kit if you ever need anything else. steve

[99400esex]

Ok I figured that man. This may be a dumb question, but I saw someone was selling +3 keys, is this for a motor that has been bored? If so I may need one if I decide to do the 416 kit over the winter.

[honda400ex2003]

imo it just depends on where you want the power to be. I ran a 6 degree with my stage 1 on my 416 for a long time and really liked the setup alot. now i am running the stage 2 with the 3 degree. the more advanced the timing the more top end you get. I wanted a bit more low end so i went to the 3 degree to help compensate for it. the 3 is great though too, do some reading on wheelies for sale thread on here. he has a better explanation of it than i just gave. that is how i use the keys, to change the power output for different things. if i want alot of top end i run the 6 degree with the stage 2.

with 11:1 and such it can cause detonation easier due to heat and such with the 6 degree so depending on what comp you run it may also determine what key you may want in the future.

steve

[CJM]

You running pump gas with the current setup steve?

[honda400ex2003]

yeah i am. usually 91 octane non ethanol. that is with 10:1, stage 2, and a 3 degree. I never had any issues with the 6 either with either cam when i ran it either. steve

[honda400ex2003]

im not sure what ill be doing with the 11:1 440 though... i will probably be trying the stage 2 with the 6 again with 110 turbo blue. I finally found a place that sells it right off the road that i travel back and forth from school on so i am now in the process of finding a 55 gallon tank for some 110 :devil: it could be a fun summer with that setup. I also have some hd studs to get since the cylinder i got doesnt have any in it at the moment. lol I might as well get them and do my 250r cylinders i just got at the same time too. lol

I just picked up 2 cylinders that need sleeves so it will be an expensive trip to the machine shop this spring trying to get all of that stuff pressed in and setup properly.

steve

[CJM]

Yea your lucky, to get race gas is kinda hard around here and since mine EATS gas (6 hours means Im out of gas and on reserve) I dont think race gas would be a good idea if I bumped up things a bit (stuff aint cheap Im sure you know).

Sounds like your in for a fun rebuild winter. Dont spend it all at once.

[honda400ex2003]

oh it wont be till the spring i dont think lol. I may get the cylinders done this winter but they wont be in till summer at least. my 250 is good to go and my 400 is also. the cylinders for the 250 are just spares anyway. the 416 will be a spare also along with the 416 piston. the 440 will go in it this summer. I will be getting a stock 400ex cylinder and a stock piston also to have on hand also sometime but that wont be for a while yet. lol then i have enough to rebuild everything a few times over again or go back to stock on the 400 if i find a modded one i want to buy in the next couple of years. steve

[grassman]

Originally posted by honda400ex2003
on the topic of top end, get a 6 degree key ;) you will enjoy the top end to go with the low end of the cam imo. im not touching the whole spacer debate though. i is too late at night for that argument lol. steve

When I put my +6 key in my wheeler seemed to loose its top end... No doubt it made better throttle response but it made it a little slower in the top... I know its installed correctly so I dont know why that happened... any ideas?

[honda400ex2003]

did your dynomax advance the timing also? that would be my initial thought... maybe just a different setup i suppose. steve

[grassman]

No the dynomax is just a jet kit. Its basically stock for now. Ive heard it adds to the top, but I guess in my case it doesnt:confused:

[honda400ex2003]

oh i was thinking dynatek lol sorry. not really sure why. there are few people that have said the same. maybe a bit rich on the jetting. it is really a whole list of things that could cause it to be different. i cant really help there much other than that stuff. steve

[99400esex]

Ill be ordering the key soon, I wish more effective mods were this price.