Checking oil

[CTC B4Z]

Cant find anything on this...

My quad hasnt run in a month or so. When I pull the dipstick, there is nothing on it.

Question is, how do properly check your oil since this in a dry sump engine, right?

I'm taking it to the Badlands tomorrow, want to make sure its in perfect shape.

[trailrider894]

Originally posted by CTC B4Z
Cant find anything on this...

My quad hasnt run in a month or so. When I pull the dipstick, there is nothing on it.

Question is, how do properly check your oil since this in a dry sump engine, right?

I'm taking it to the Badlands tomorrow, want to make sure its in perfect shape.

let it warm up for a few minutes then take out the dip-stick and wipe it off then put it back in then take it back out and then you should have an accurate reading.

[3400ben]

Start your quad and let it run for 60 sec or so
Pull the dip stick out wipe it off and reinsert it.
Let it rest on the threads pull it out and check it

[CTC B4Z]

you dont clean it than screw it back in and then check that level? you just let it sit on threads?

[trailrider894]

Originally posted by CTC B4Z
you dont clean it than screw it back in and then check that level? you just let it sit on threads?

Put it all the way in... The dipstick is accurate when it is screwed all the way in. Don't let it sit on the threads. You NEVER want to overfill.

[NacsMXer]

Originally posted by CTC B4Z
you dont clean it than screw it back in and then check that level? you just let it sit on threads?

This is the procedure from the Honda service manual:

- Start the engine and let it idle for 5 minutes WITHOUT touching the throttle.

- Stop the engine.

- After a few minutes, remove the dipstick and wipe it clean.

- Reinsert the dipstick WITHOUT screwing it in and check the reading.

- Engine contains a sufficient amount of oil if the reading is between the upper and lower marks on the dipstick.

[CTC B4Z]

right, just scared to over fill. airetion bad

[kt1148]

according to my manual, you do not thread it in.

[NacsMXer]

Originally posted by trailrider894
Put it all the way in... The dipstick is accurate when it is screwed all the way in. Don't let it sit on the threads. You NEVER want to overfill.

This is not correct. You aren't supposed to screw it in.

[trailrider894]

Originally posted by NacsMXer
This is not correct. You aren't supposed to screw it in.

It seems i run into this arguement every once and awhile. I am aware of what the manual says, but me and a bunch of other builders all agree that you can only be safe and thread it in. Is the extra 30 seconds worth the insurance. We once had a guy do this to a 400ex and he was running just a tad low, but let it go because he didn't have enough oil... So he took off on the first moto and didn't make it a lap because he was just low enough that when his rings started to go out it burnt the only oil left. So..... Thats why i thread it in.

[3400ben]

Originally posted by trailrider894
It seems i run into this arguement every once and awhile. I am aware of what the manual says, but me and a bunch of other builders all agree that you can only be safe and thread it in. Is the extra 30 seconds worth the insurance. We once had a guy do this to a 400ex and he was running just a tad low, but let it go because he didn't have enough oil... So he took off on the first moto and didn't make it a lap because he was just low enough that when his rings started to go out it burnt the only oil left. So..... Thats why i thread it in.
Checking it screwed in will give you less oil. Resting on the thread is more oil because the dip stick sits higher. So your engine blow up because of improper oil checking. That is not good for a engine builder.

[-TheDude-]

i was told never to thread it back in when you check the oil just let it rest on the threads

[dariusld]

Originally posted by trailrider894
It seems i run into this arguement every once and awhile.


How can there be an argument, when you are wrong?

[duroc825]

screwed in or not couldn't be but a couple of ounces of difference. Don't think a couple of ounces out of 2 quarts is gonna blow a motor :confused:

[CJM]

For what its worth and Im late to the game, but I ALWAYS overfill my oil slightly. Be in my car, my lawn tractor, quad, whatever I always have a few ounces more that it says. Never know when that extra few ounces might save ya from certain death.

So the manual states 1.9 qts or so, you put in 2 qts. Thats just barely more and imho not enough, throw in a small splash maybe 2 capfulls from some more oil to be sure.

I did it the stupid way cause I was thinking the other day. I changed the oil and since I had a 5 gallon jug I measured as best I could using a qt jug. I thought I added enough. Well I checked the oil after a ride, my topend has maybe 30 hrs on it and bingo I was low. Threw a good splash in and what do you know im good to go now.

Whether you check it with stick in or out, so long as its slightly above the full mark your fine. Checking it stick not screwed in means you will fill more anyways.

Now, MASSIVE overfilling is a bad idea. A buddy bought a 400 used and we checked the oil when he bought it-seemed fine. One day its sounding like crap, he only rode it maybe an hour since he bought it. Let it run for a bit warmed up and pulled the stick-it had at least an extra qt in there. Should it have been left that way it surely woulda grenaded from typing to compress all that oil. As it was we we rebuilt it anyways for another unrelated matter, perhaps saving it anyways.

And just for shiggles: In my old work van it ate oil liek most ford 5.4L engines do when they get up in miles. I constantly added oil, probably about a good 2 qts a week. I always overfilled it purposely and guess what-its still going now and has 280k on the original engine.

[smorris1]

Originally posted by 3400ben
Checking it screwed in will give you less oil. Resting on the thread is more oil because the dip stick sits higher. So your engine blow up because of improper oil checking. That is not good for a engine builder.


This is correct. Screwing it all the way in will read less oil than needed. I have never screwed mine in.

[togup]

What the heck is up with 1.9 any way wouldnt it be easier to put in 2 quarts which would be more consistant each oil change than guessing what .9 is on an oil can? (written with sarcasm)

[bherriman]

Not sure about you guys but when I'm changing my oil and I take out the crankcase drain bolt I always pick up on the opposite side of the bike when its done draining. This gets out all the rest of the "nasty" crap left in the bottom of the crank case. I also find my self putting in more than 2 quarts to get it full after doing this

[CJM]

^ I do the same thing, gets every last bit of oil out pretty much.

[slightlybent47]

Well first off the ex has a dry sump oil system so there is only a small portion of the oil that’s in the motor at one time. The rest is stored in the oil tank and is only circulated when it’s needed.
Secondly a few ounces of oil one way or the other shouldn’t make a deference in liberation, but by having to little oil, it will make it heat up more because it has less oil for cooling.

Long story short, I ran my newly built motor and forgot to tighten the drain plug on the case. It fell out while I was riding and all the oil drained out and it did not seize up or anything, in fact I’m still racing that same motor some two years later and it still rips just fine.

[bherriman]

Originally posted by slightlybent47
Well first off the ex has a dry sump oil system so there is only a small portion of the oil that’s in the motor at one time. The rest is stored in the oil tank and is only circulated when it’s needed.
Secondly a few ounces of oil one way or the other shouldn’t make a deference in liberation, but by having to little oil, it will make it heat up more because it has less oil for cooling.

Long story short, I ran my newly built motor and forgot to tighten the drain plug on the case. It fell out while I was riding and all the oil drained out and it did not seize up or anything, in fact I’m still racing that same motor some two years later and it still rips just fine.


There is only a small amount of oil in your engine/crankcase like you said, however, the ex's oil system is not really intended to cool the engine. If the oil was supposed to cool the engines there would be a lot more/ higher volume of oil flowing through the motor, it does help, but the main source of cooling is air. The purpose of the oil cooler is to do just that, cool the oil. When oil gets above about 200 deg. is life and effectiveness is pretty drastically reduced. In fact in a lot of water cooled engines any oil temp above 200 is starting to get hot.

[slightlybent47]

The oil system is part of the cooling system on the ex. It helps cool the oil witch helps cool the engine, especially at low speeds or idling. It plays a huge part in cooling, if you don’t believe me then take your oil cooler off and see how long it last.
Why do we put bigger oil coolers, oil tanks and spal fans on them to help cool them down?

[bherriman]

Ok man, if you think that thin film of oil on the internals of your engine is what cools it good for you. The big oil coolers and fans are to cool your OIL as I said before oil begins to break down and its effectiveness and life are drastically reduced when it gets much over 200 degrees. Think what you want, I wont reply back. People come on here wanting advice, but as soon as someone offers advice or a different opinon on the subject every one blows up. You wonder why nobody posts on here anymore? As soon as you do offer your opinion you get called a "know it all" and get accused of just trying to start fights.

[bherriman]

Originally posted by bherriman
. If the oil was supposed to cool the engines there would be a lot more/ higher volume of oil flowing through the motor,IT DOES HELP, but the main source of cooling is air. .

[jake"08"400]

Put two quarts of oil in it and check it without screwing it in. Its not that hard to do......that's my thout on it.

[slightlybent47]

Originally posted by bherriman
There is only a small amount of oil in your engine/crankcase like you said, however, the ex's oil system is not really intended to cool the engine. If the oil was supposed to cool the engines there would be a lot more/ higher volume of oil flowing through the motor, it does help, but the main source of cooling is air. The purpose of the oil cooler is to do just that, cool the oil. When oil gets above about 200 deg. is life and effectiveness is pretty drastically reduced. In fact in a lot of water cooled engines any oil temp above 200 is starting to get hot.


It’s people like you who call a healthy debate a fight, and say the forum is bad for it. This forum is for everyone to post there opinion, be it right or wrong. It’s up to you to decide what is fact, and what is fiction. I didn’t quote you or call you out nor did I call you a liar, in fact I just responded to the thread in general and offered my opinion, and you seem to be the one upset. The fact is we are both right, the oil is there for lubrication but it also works to cool the motor just like it dose in most internal combustion engines.

[slightlybent47]

Why dose the oil get hot in the first place? Because it’s pulling heat from the motor!

[brokenmike]

Oil change takes 1.9 qts. I put 2 in and don't check. When I do check I don't screw in the cap on any Honda.

[Barrymaxx]

Screwing it in or not its not a big deal. The 400ex dipstick has like a 2.5 inch range. Based on the angle of the stick, the difference from screwing it in and leaving it on the threads is like a half inch to a inch different on the stick. As long as your not on the very bottom with it screwed in your fine.

You can run these dry sump systems very low on oil actually.

Whoever blew up their engine running it a tad low obviously had some other type of system restriction or issue. I ran mine a qt low towards the end of the day for a long long time before I rebuilt it and never had an issue.

[slightlybent47]

Originally posted by Barrymaxx
Screwing it in or not its not a big deal. The 400ex dipstick has like a 2.5 inch range. Based on the angle of the stick, the difference from screwing it in and leaving it on the threads is like a half inch to a inch different on the stick. As long as your not on the very bottom with it screwed in your fine.

You can run these dry sump systems very low on oil actually.

Whoever blew up their engine running it a tad low obviously had some other type of system restriction or issue. I ran mine a qt low towards the end of the day for a long long time before I rebuilt it and never had an issue.

i agree 100% aslong as you do it the same way every time it should be fine.

[Tyler01]

Look like if you let it run for 5 min and you didn't have oil in it wouldn't that seize it up?

[2001400exrida]

yes, no oil for 5 min. would most likely mean very bad.

the oil does cool the motor yes, but it's there for lubrication and doesn't work it's magic until it gets up to a warmer temperature.

the oil cooler just let's it run through there and the air keeps that cool hence all the coils.

you got water/liquid cooled and you got air cooled. these are air cooled motors not so much oil cooled but air cooled..

[trailrider894]

Originally posted by 2001400exrida
you got water/liquid cooled and you got air cooled. these are air cooled motors not so much oil cooled but air cooled..

If they are air cooled more than oil cooled, then why do we invest in oversized oil tanks and SPAL fans and Oversized oil coolers??? Doesn't make sense..... But from my experience, any of the above mods that i just listed make a pretty darn big difference when it comes to heat fade and keeping the engine cool...

[2001400exrida]

you invest in a fan to push more air! because air helps keep this motor cool

you invest in a bigger oil cooler to allow more air to cool the oil

how do you think the oil cooler works? do you think there is an AC unit in it that cools the oil? no the oil is cooled by air.

it is an air cooled motor dude. there's really no argument here man, it's an air cooled motor all the aftermarket mods you listed help use AIR to keep the motor cool.

the air cools the oil which in turn keep the motor cool.

retarded argument and it's assanine that is has to be explained.

[trailrider894]

Originally posted by 2001400exrida
you invest in a fan to push more air! because air helps keep this motor cool

you invest in a bigger oil cooler to allow more air to cool the oil

how do you think the oil cooler works? do you think there is an AC unit in it that cools the oil? no the oil is cooled by air.

it is an air cooled motor dude. there's really no argument here man, it's an air cooled motor all the aftermarket mods you listed help use AIR to keep the motor cool.

the air cools the oil which in turn keep the motor cool.

retarded argument and it's assanine that is has to be explained.

Circular Reasoning here man... In reality, the air cools the oil and the oil cools the engine.... SOOOOO...... which one actually cools the engine? the oil.

They don't call a water cooled engine an air cooled engine just because air cools the water that cools the engine.... So why would they do the same to an oil cooled engine.

[bherriman]

Not trying to get into the middle of something, but the EX is an air cooled motor. The oil cooler is there to do just that, cool the oil. The oil temps in these motors are already pretty high at about 230*ish (oil breaks down at around 200*F) The oil cooler simply keeps the oils temps as low as possible, without an oil cooler you would probably see temps up near 270*, which is a bad thing. That being said, the oil flowing throughout the motor does somewhat help the cooling process, but there is not enough volume of oil on all the internals to actually be the main source of cooling.

[trailrider894]

Originally posted by bherriman
Not trying to get into the middle of something, but the EX is an air cooled motor. The oil cooler is there to do just that, cool the oil. The oil temps in these motors are already pretty high at about 230*ish (oil breaks down at around 200*F) The oil cooler simply keeps the oils temps as low as possible, without an oil cooler you would probably see temps up near 270*, which is a bad thing. That being said, the oil flowing throughout the motor does somewhat help the cooling process, but there is not enough volume of oil on all the internals to actually be the main source of cooling.

Makes sense bherriman. Still gonna stick to my guns on parts of this.

[evan402]

Well according to the Manual for our 400ex quads under cooling system it says Air Cooled. :devil:

[2001400exrida]

trailrider, the air cools the motor man.

if anything the oil actually keep the motor warm.

why do you think the jug has heat syncs on it? because it's air cooled! the oil is cooled by the air. the engine is cooled by the air! you wouldn't call it an "engine cooled engine" just because the jug has heat syncs on it would you? no you would call it an air cooled engine and the air cools the jug which in turn cools the oil.

i'm not going to argue symantics with you but you won't find a description for this quad that says "oil cooled motor". haha sorry it's air cooled.

also the engine coolant stays cool through the radiator. it is actually a water cooled motor, not oil cooled. the water runs through the block and cools the MOTOR, not the OIL.

the 400ex is air cooled and air cools this motor! without the oil cooler which uses AIR to cool the oil you would have a hot motor.