wont run need serious help

[gsxrtrx098]

The thing will not run a lick heres what ive tried so far:

Clean and checked carb including float height, adjusted and played with air screw, idle screw, jet needle height, different idle and main jets ranging from 155-168 main

Checked compression_175psi

Its getting spark

Reeds look fine no cracks or chips

Its getting fuel b/c its all over the spark plug after i kick it

Exhaust is not leaking

Tried leaning it out even more taking the air filter off and also tried different gas-oil mixtures with different octane levels from 87-100

If anybody has any ideas i'd love to hear them.. Thank you

[rubbersdown]

you tried to push/pull start it?

[hartwill]

Did you check for spark?

[SilverLake250R]

Check timing. Mine sheared the key off the flywheel once. Make sure you look at where the two keyways are when you pop the flywheel off, because I didn't even notice the key was sheared and put it back together and chased the problem around for a while before I found it.

[jcs003]

Originally posted by SilverLake250R
Check timing. Mine sheared the key off the flywheel once. Make sure you look at where the two keyways are when you pop the flywheel off, because I didn't even notice the key was sheared and put it back together and chased the problem around for a while before I found it.

how exactly can you tell if the keyway is sheared? i may be suffering the same problem as gsxrtrx098. i fooled with everything. took the flywheel off thought it was ok...now it will kick over but not run.

[SilverLake250R]

When you take the flywheel off, use a threaded puller, and as soon as it "pops", just take it off slow and make sure both the keyway on the shaft and the keyway on the inside of the flywheel are lined up. I actually made a key for mine, because I bought a new one from Honda and it sheared again...the Honda ones hardly protrude into the flywheel, so I made mine a little taller and it works great.

[86 Quad R]

could very well be the flywheel key but im going out on a limb and ask..... are you guys sure that you are kicking em over fast enough. these ignitions require the engine to be spun atleast 300-500 RPM'S to fire off.

[jcs003]

Originally posted by SilverLake250R
When you take the flywheel off, use a threaded puller, and as soon as it "pops", just take it off slow and make sure both the keyway on the shaft and the keyway on the inside of the flywheel are lined up. I actually made a key for mine, because I bought a new one from Honda and it sheared again...the Honda ones hardly protrude into the flywheel, so I made mine a little taller and it works great.

maybe the key is just worn and it has my timing off enough to cause issues. i will go your route and make one at work.

yes, randy, i kick it over fast enough.lol. it just wont stay running. could easily be because the timing is off slightly and its just enough to make er kick over. i have to keep the throttle on a bit to keep er running.

[86 Quad R]

Originally posted by jcs003
maybe the key is just worn and it has my timing off enough to cause issues. i will go your route and make one at work.

yes, randy, i kick it over fast enough.lol. it just wont stay running. could easily be because the timing is off slightly and its just enough to make er kick over. i have to keep the throttle on a bit to keep er running.

and it never clears out and hits the revs?

[jcs003]

Originally posted by 86 Quad R
and it never clears out and hits the revs?

that sounds about right.

sorry if i igh jacked your thread gsxrtrx098. maybe this info will help.

[wilkin250r]

I've got a similar problem, but I'm not trying to hijack the thread, just adding more information. I'm chasing this thing and it has me stumped.

Mine starts, and has a little trouble idling. That might just be my carb settings, because I threw another carb on there and it idled much better, it still died after a few minutes.

My problem is, mine won't rev out. I've even taken it up and down the street, it actually runs really good until about 4-5k RPM, then won't go any higher. It won't even go higher in neutral.

I've got another 250r, so I've tried swapping reeds, CDI, coil, and carburetor (as well as carburetor jetting and several spark plugs), and it still has the exact same symptoms. Runs fine up to 4k, then just won't rev higher. The only thing left is the stator and flywheel, which might have to wait until next week.

Is this similar to anybody else's problems? I plan on posting the solution if/when I ever find it :mad:

[fearlessfred]

Originally posted by wilkin250r
I've got a similar problem, but I'm not trying to hijack the thread, just adding more information. I'm chasing this thing and it has me stumped.

Mine starts, and has a little trouble idling. That might just be my carb settings, because I threw another carb on there and it idled much better, it still died after a few minutes.

My problem is, mine won't rev out. I've even taken it up and down the street, it actually runs really good until about 4-5k RPM, then won't go any higher. It won't even go higher in neutral.

I've got another 250r, so I've tried swapping reeds, CDI, coil, and carburetor (as well as carburetor jetting and several spark plugs), and it still has the exact same symptoms. Runs fine up to 4k, then just won't rev higher. The only thing left is the stator and flywheel, which might have to wait until next week.

Is this similar to anybody else's problems? I plan on posting the solution if/when I ever find it :mad:
atv fan 28 just had similar prob. and corrected it by replacing ignition with esr cr unit,im not suggesting doing that,but thought wayne might come on here,and post what his was doing

[gsxrtrx098]

yeah you guys kinda killed my thread haha

No this is good information with the ignition timing. I've debated that with myself, but thought that the timing couldnt be off that far that it wouldnt run.

I've heard about this before; do you think i should advance the timing or retard it?

[gsxrtrx098]

Originally posted by wilkin250r
I've got a similar problem, but I'm not trying to hijack the thread, just adding more information. I'm chasing this thing and it has me stumped.

Mine starts, and has a little trouble idling. That might just be my carb settings, because I threw another carb on there and it idled much better, it still died after a few minutes.

My problem is, mine won't rev out. I've even taken it up and down the street, it actually runs really good until about 4-5k RPM, then won't go any higher. It won't even go higher in neutral.

I've got another 250r, so I've tried swapping reeds, CDI, coil, and carburetor (as well as carburetor jetting and several spark plugs), and it still has the exact same symptoms. Runs fine up to 4k, then just won't rev higher. The only thing left is the stator and flywheel, which might have to wait until next week.

Is this similar to anybody else's problems? I plan on posting the solution if/when I ever find it :mad:

Minor exhaust leak? The head pipe has a lot to do with where your power band is

[jcs003]

Originally posted by wilkin250r
I've got a similar problem, but I'm not trying to hijack the thread, just adding more information. I'm chasing this thing and it has me stumped.

Mine starts, and has a little trouble idling. That might just be my carb settings, because I threw another carb on there and it idled much better, it still died after a few minutes.

My problem is, mine won't rev out. I've even taken it up and down the street, it actually runs really good until about 4-5k RPM, then won't go any higher. It won't even go higher in neutral.

I've got another 250r, so I've tried swapping reeds, CDI, coil, and carburetor (as well as carburetor jetting and several spark plugs), and it still has the exact same symptoms. Runs fine up to 4k, then just won't rev higher. The only thing left is the stator and flywheel, which might have to wait until next week.

Is this similar to anybody else's problems? I plan on posting the solution if/when I ever find it :mad:

mine was the opposite. would stuble and bog until i gave it alot of gas. THEN, i took the flywheel for inspection. seemed ok. reinstalled, and went for a ride and it was better but not like it should be. a flywheel key id less than $3 so its a cheap way to cancel out one variable.

[wilkin250r]

Originally posted by gsxrtrx098
yeah you guys kinda killed my thread haha

No this is good information with the ignition timing. I've debated that with myself, but thought that the timing couldnt be off that far that it wouldnt run.

I've heard about this before; do you think i should advance the timing or retard it?

But you shouldn't have to play with the timing. If you need to advance the timing in order to get it to run, then it's just a band-aid. It's like a dead cat in the middle of your living room. Air freshener can mask the scent a little bit, but it's not a real solution, what you need to do is get rid of the dead cat.

You shouldn't have to adjust your timing to get it to run. So let's start at the beginning.

You checked compression, and it's good. Did you ever do a leak-down test on it?

Before you get really crazy, here is one test that I've found to help narrow down my problems. Drain all the gas from your carburetor, and spray a little starting fluid into the carb and kick it over. It should start for a couple seconds, then die. If it doesn't start, you've got engine/ignition problems. If it does start, then you generally have a fuel/jetting problem.

[wilkin250r]

Originally posted by fearlessfred
atv fan 28 just had similar prob. and corrected it by replacing ignition with esr cr unit,

I've been thinking about trying that. I wouldn't run like that permanently, because I need lights for the type of riding I do, but if I could find a cheap CR ignition, get it running and dialed in, I'd sell the ignition for the same price. It would basically be free diagnostics, or at least cheap diagnostics.

Most of the time I've seen intermittent problems with ignition, it was at the CDI, not the stator. I've swapped the CDI with another from a running quad, and I've got the exact same result, so it's seems obvious that it's not the CDI (I think. But my other engine runs kinda funny, too, so I'm not 100% sure on that)

[jcs003]

from what kevin at lectron fuel systems told me. a carb with a bad choke circuit/mechanism will lead to many diagnostic problems.

[fearlessfred]

Originally posted by wilkin250r
I've been thinking about trying that. I wouldn't run like that permanently, because I need lights for the type of riding I do, but if I could find a cheap CR ignition, get it running and dialed in, I'd sell the ignition for the same price. It would basically be free diagnostics, or at least cheap diagnostics.

Most of the time I've seen intermittent problems with ignition, it was at the CDI, not the stator. I've swapped the CDI with another from a running quad, and I've got the exact same result, so it's seems obvious that it's not the CDI (I think. But my other engine runs kinda funny, too, so I'm not 100% sure on that) i dont know were at in nv that u live,but if u are anywere close ( 89015) u can borrow any 250r parts i have to test with

[wild250rman]

check the counter balance bearing carrier sometimes they will break at the mounting ears and not let the motor rev out. and also check to make sure all of the carrier bolts are tight and not broke or missing. your stator pick-up mounts to it and it will move as the engine revs up. worth a look may not be the answer but worth keeping an eye on.

[fearlessfred]

Originally posted by acecarlos
I have seen CDI’s work on one engine electrical system and not on another of the same year. Most CDI’s & Stators are compatible within the same year, some are not. This is not the case with NEW CDI’s & NEW Stators, however; seems to become a small problem when CDI’s & Stators are in USED condition and mixed from different vehicles, even if from the same year.

Carlos. yea ,all my parts are 88/89 but i have never had any issuses with using same year parts to test with,but i beleive what u say and it is a good point to bring up.

[wilkin250r]

Whoops. Looks like I really have hijacked this thread. :devil:


Carlos, I don't doubt you one bit, I've seen it with lot of other electronics. And I would be more inclined to investigate further if I saw a difference in performance from one CDI to another. But the two CDIs gave me the exact same results, same power, same problem at the same RPM. I find it hard to believe (but not impossible) that I have two CDIs from different machines, different years, different history, with the exact same faulty characteristics.



Originally posted by jcs003
from what kevin at lectron fuel systems told me. a carb with a bad choke circuit/mechanism will lead to many diagnostic problems.

I tried two different carburetors, fresh clean and rebuilt on each before I installed them, same problem. Again, I find it difficult to believe (but not impossible) that I have two different carburetors with the exact same problem. I took the choke knob off each when I cleaned them, too, and inspected. Everything looked okay.

It might be a couple days before I can do any further testing, but I'll post it up here.

[wilkin250r]

Originally posted by acecarlos
I would start to look at the issue beyond the electrical and carb…possibly an internal engine problem, air leak that has develop, shifted or lose flywheel, small piston crack, ect…

These are never fun…
Carlos.

There's a few more avenues I need to investigate. I just rebuilt this motor, new bearings and seals, everything else looked okay, reused the same piston. Compression is a solid 175, which is great for this altitude (6000 ft).

When I did the pressure test, I had a small leak at the exhaust flange, but it's so minor, I can't possibly see that being my problem. But if I eliminate all other possibilites, I'll have to revisit that and replace the exhaust gasket with a different type of gasket that seals better.


The problem feels electrical. It's not blubbering like a jetting problem, it actually sounds like it's hitting the rev limiter. Every so often, at this rev ceiling I'm hitting, it will let out some goofy chug/knock/sound, and then die as if I hit the kill switch, it sounds like the spark just cuts out. It just FEELS electrical. I only tried the carb because it's easy, and I don't know the history on the carb that's on it, so I swapped to a known good carb I had on the shelf.

[wilkin250r]

Originally posted by fearlessfred
i dont know were at in nv that u live,but if u are anywere close ( 89015) u can borrow any 250r parts i have to test with

I appreciate the offer, but you're south of Vegas. I'm up in Reno, that's a 7+ hour drive.



Originally posted by wild250rman
check the counter balance bearing carrier sometimes they will break at the mounting ears and not let the motor rev out. and also check to make sure all of the carrier bolts are tight and not broke or missing. your stator pick-up mounts to it and it will move as the engine revs up. worth a look may not be the answer but worth keeping an eye on.


Fresh rebuild on the bottom end, the bearing holder was inspected during assembly, and the bolts threadlocked and torqued to spec. There's a chance what you say is true, I'll be checking EVERYTHING eventually. But at the moment, it's unlikely.

[jcs003]

more info: i rode MY quad for about ten minutes today and it seemed fine. but as before it would not idle. i removed the flywheel and stator again for further inspection. all was well.

we all seem to be suffering from similiar issues.

like gsxrtrx098 my quad would not start for days. then through dilligence i somehow got er to start.

as wilkin stated, it would run, but oddly(paraphrasing). this is how it ran after the first time i rode er when i eventually got her started.

MY biggest problem seems to be the inconsistent nature of my problem. logic isnt solving the problem. maybe we should be thinking out of the box...

[MANIAK 88R]

I skipped most of the crap on this thread. I hope those of you that are having problems read this. I was having trouble with my R, I went through all of the trouble shooting I could. I even changed out the whole electrical system with my spare, I still couldn't get the bike to run. I decided to take the bike with us to pismo anyway so that I could go to ESR. The only thing they tried to do was sell me a CR ignition. The problem is that I mostly ride at night in the dunes, CR = no lights. I ended up talking to Jay ay ESR, he sked me if I had tried a different flywheel??? WHo the hell ever replaces the flywheel .. right? Well, he was correct in his diagnosis, when I pulled the flywheel and shook it, it sounded like popcorn. The magnets inside the flywheel can break appart causing the electrical system all kind of havoc. The symptoms that those of you with problems stated sound the same as mine. No need for $600 CR ign., a $20 used flywheel fixed my problem. If you have tried everything and still can't get spark, pull the flywheel and shake it with you hand, if it rattles, you have a problem.

[fearlessfred]

Originally posted by MANIAK 88R
I skipped most of the crap on this thread. I hope those of you that are having problems read this. I was having trouble with my R, I went through all of the trouble shooting I could. I even changed out the whole electrical system with my spare, I still couldn't get the bike to run. I decided to take the bike with us to pismo anyway so that I could go to ESR. The only thing they tried to do was sell me a CR ignition. The problem is that I mostly ride at night in the dunes, CR = no lights. I ended up talking to Jay ay ESR, he sked me if I had tried a different flywheel??? WHo the hell ever replaces the flywheel .. right? Well, he was correct in his diagnosis, when I pulled the flywheel and shook it, it sounded like popcorn. The magnets inside the flywheel can break appart causing the electrical system all kind of havoc. The symptoms that those of you with problems stated sound the same as mine. No need for $600 CR ign., a $20 used flywheel fixed my problem. If you have tried everything and still can't get spark, pull the flywheel and shake it with you hand, if it rattles, you have a problem. i have learned something today thank you

[wilkin250r]

The thread has been edited so that I can keep it up, so let's keep this thing on topic so I don't have to get rid of it completely.

Maniak, I like the suggestion, this is good information to have.

[jcs003]

thats definitly something that would have never crossed my mind.

thanks for the edit wilkin.