How to get MX wide?

[4x4 AG]

I have OEM 250r wheels front and back, with a +4 LSR rear end (I think). Right now the rear with wheels and 20x11 tires measures about ~49". What do I need up front to match the rear?

I thought I knew, but obviously I didn't.

Thanks..

[hartwill]

+2" a arms should put you right where you need to be. That's with a 3/2 offset.

[4x4 AG]

Yah i thought +2 would get me there too, but it didn't. What are stock Honda wheel offsets?

[hartwill]

Stock wheels are 3/2 offset. Your rear end is supposed to be a little wider than the front. Are you trying to get them exactly even? Or maybe your shocks are to long, do you have a narrow frame by chance? There's a lot of variables. But if you add 4 in the back add 4 in the front and you should be fine.

[4x4 AG]

Originally posted by hartwill
Stock wheels are 3/2 offset. Your rear end is supposed to be a little wider than the front. Are you trying to get them exactly even? Or maybe your shocks are to long, do you have a narrow frame by chance? There's a lot of variables. But if you add 4 in the back add 4 in the front and you should be fine.

Stock 86 frame, stock shocks on the front for now. I got +2+1 arms from the front and it has me around ~45-46", the rear is at ~49". How much narrower should it be? I was wanting to be even with the back, or at least that is what i thought i wanted to achieve.

I thought having a quad set-up for MX around 50" would be a good set-up.

[hartwill]

I'll have to measure mine at home I have +2+1 on mine with a +2+2 axle. I know my rear is 49.5" I can't remember the front width though.

[D Bergstrom]

I am not sure about stock 250R wheels, but I know all the modern day Honda sport quad front wheels are 4:1.5 offset, I am guessing 250R wheels are the same. (Look to see if your wheels have 10x5.5 stamped on them. If they do, they are 4:1.5 offset.) With 4:1 offset wheels and +3 arms I was at about 49" wide. I currently have +2.5 arms with 3:2 wheels and I am just over 50" wide in the front. In the rear I have a Lonestar +1 to +4 axle in the +3 position with 4:5 offset rear wheels and I am just under 50".

You say with +2 arms you are 46" or so. How are you measuring? Should be from sidewall to sidewall of the tires. Easiest way I have found is get two full cans (brake cleaner, paint, soda, etc.) and place them flat on the ground at the center of the tire against the sidewall. Sit on the quad to settle the suspension, this pushes the cans slightly away from the tires. Get off the quad, then carefully push the quad out of the way, then just measure between the cans. Do the same for the rear, except no reason to sit on the quad, doesn't get any wider. With your +2 arms and stock offset wheels, you should be around 48" wide. Get yourself a set of +3 arms and you will be right around 50".

From what I have learned, you want the front of your quad slightly wider the the rear, helps it corner better. I have learned this first hand, I have tested both and it corners alot better with the front wider.

Hope this helps.

Doug

[4x4 AG]

Originally posted by D Bergstrom
I am not sure about stock 250R wheels, but I know all the modern day Honda sport quad front wheels are 4:1.5 offset, I am guessing 250R wheels are the same. (Look to see if your wheels have 10x5.5 stamped on them. If they do, they are 4:1.5 offset.) With 4:1 offset wheels and +3 arms I was at about 49" wide. I currently have +2.5 arms with 3:2 wheels and I am just over 50" wide in the front. In the rear I have a Lonestar +1 to +4 axle in the +3 position with 4:5 offset rear wheels and I am just under 50".

You say with +2 arms you are 46" or so. How are you measuring? Should be from sidewall to sidewall of the tires. Easiest way I have found is get two full cans (brake cleaner, paint, soda, etc.) and place them flat on the ground at the center of the tire against the sidewall. Sit on the quad to settle the suspension, this pushes the cans slightly away from the tires. Get off the quad, then carefully push the quad out of the way, then just measure between the cans. Do the same for the rear, except no reason to sit on the quad, doesn't get any wider. With your +2 arms and stock offset wheels, you should be around 48" wide. Get yourself a set of +3 arms and you will be right around 50".

From what I have learned, you want the front of your quad slightly wider the the rear, helps it corner better. I have learned this first hand, I have tested both and it corners alot better with the front wider.

Hope this helps.

Doug
Yes, that helps alot. The stock gold wheels on front are 10x5.5, so i am assuming they are 4:1.5. So 3:2 wheels may help me some?
Also, with the quad unsquated the front is at 46" outside tirewall to outside tirewall. So squated it would come out some, but not enough to get me to 49-50". The rear is at 49.5" wide. I just think, and I am new to this, that a front end closer to 50" at squat would be better for MX, right? The rear is a LSR +1-+4 adjustable, so i could shorten it to match the front, but that is just asthetic.

[atvmxr]

i wonder if you got scammed on the "+2" arms that are actually stock width?
I'm at 48" with +2 and 4:1 wheels...

[4x4 AG]

Originally posted by atvmxr
i wonder if you got scammed on the "+2" arms that are actually stock width?
I'm at 48" with +2 and 4:1 wheels...

No, I think that they are +2's. Maybe you could give me some measurements of yours and I can verify. But I think that myself and the seller thought that add +4 to the rear, and then +4 to the front and you will be equal, but it didn't work.

I am stupified myself.

[troybilt]

The other thing is if you shocks are too long (or stiff), then the front end will set higher and bring the tires closer to the center... I didn't read thru the thread, but something to think about. The width should be measured with you on the quad. Also the height just in front of the front motor mount, bottom of frame to ground with rider on, should be around 7 inches, with MX tires/wheels.

Also what is the offset of the rear wheels? Typically with +2 arms you run the axle (if its adjustable) at +2 or +3, depending on the spacers of the axle and the offset of the rear wheels. Even if they are +2 aarms, i wouldn't run the axle to its full width, you want the front an inch or so wider than the rear, for better handling in MX. JMO.

[4x4 AG]

Originally posted by troybilt
The other thing is if you shocks are too long (or stiff), then the front end will set higher and bring the tires closer to the center... I didn't read thru the thread, but something to think about. The width should be measured with you on the quad. Also the height just in front of the front motor mount, bottom of frame to ground with rider on, should be around 7 inches, with MX tires/wheels.

Also what is the offset of the rear wheels? Typically with +2 arms you run the axle (if its adjustable) at +2 or +3, depending on the spacers of the axle and the offset of the rear wheels. Even if they are +2 aarms, i wouldn't run the axle to its full width, you want the front an inch or so wider than the rear, for better handling in MX. JMO.

Yes, I measured the width without rider, it was at 46". But even with me on or fully compressed, it won't get to the 49.5" that the rear is at.
And yes, I could shorten the rear adjustable axle, but I was wanting to achieve 50" on the front.
Also, the shocks on it now are stockers, and I have taken all of the adjustment out of them. So they compress easy.
I guess my inexperience and rookie calculations didn't produce what i thought. My guess is +3's with stock wheels would have gotten me closer to 50".

[Chino886]

IMO.....

You need to move the spacers in your rear axle. If you are running wider rear wheels, it will put you wider in the rear, it will make you push in the corners. The +2 arms that you have will work perfect with 3:2 wheels, which will put you between 48-49", which is ideal for MX. The rules is 50" or under, hard to get right at 50". I am at 52" cause I mounted a set of 3:2 instead of 4:1s with some LT +3 arms.

So it sounds like you could benefit from some 3:2s.

Oh, and he did not get scammed for whoever suggested the notion!:D

[troybilt]

Originally posted by 4x4 AG
Yes, I measured the width without rider, it was at 46". But even with me on or fully compressed, it won't get to the 49.5" that the rear is at.
And yes, I could shorten the rear adjustable axle, but I was wanting to achieve 50" on the front.
Also, the shocks on it now are stockers, and I have taken all of the adjustment out of them. So they compress easy.
I guess my inexperience and rookie calculations didn't produce what i thought. My guess is +3's with stock wheels would have gotten me closer to 50".

50" is not really achievable with +2's, without wildly offset front wheels, you can get 2:3 wheels, as I've had a set and sold recently... also I know there are guys (hontrx265r) running +4 aarms with 4:1 offset wheels on stock width frames which only produce 49.5" wide.

Also you really shouldn't run stock shocks with +2 aarms, if you're just trying to get by for now, I totally understand. But you should look into a set of 450r revalves or something if you're on a tight budget. +2 aarms will work nicely for you. I wouldn't worry about being 50" on the money.

I've got +1's with 3:2 offset wheels on my other bike, and mine sits right at 46" wide, (cross country). 48" is what I'd shoot for if I were you. i.e. +2's with 3:2 wheels, that's a nice balanced setup for trails, dunes, and track... If you dead set on 49+ then you need to sell of those aarms and get a set of +3's or +4's and LT suspension.

[4x4 AG]

Originally posted by troybilt
50" is not really achievable with +2's, without wildly offset front wheels, you can get 2:3 wheels, as I've had a set and sold recently... also I know there are guys (hontrx265r) running +4 aarms with 4:1 offset wheels on stock width frames which only produce 49.5" wide.

Also you really shouldn't run stock shocks with +2 aarms, if you're just trying to get by for now, I totally understand. But you should look into a set of 450r revalves or something if you're on a tight budget. +2 aarms will work nicely for you. I wouldn't worry about being 50" on the money.

I've got +1's with 3:2 offset wheels on my other bike, and mine sits right at 46" wide, (cross country). 48" is what I'd shoot for if I were you. i.e. +2's with 3:2 wheels, that's a nice balanced setup for trails, dunes, and track... If you dead set on 49+ then you need to sell of those aarms and get a set of +3's or +4's and LT suspension.

Yes, i have stock shocks just for setup purposes. I am buying things as i have cash. So once i get the a-arms figured out, i will pick up some shocks. But you are right, i will need new shocks.

Right now, with the stock wheels and +2+1's and me sitting on the bike, I am at 46.5". So 3:2 wheels would get me to about 48". Also, +3 arms would get me there. +3 plus 3:2 wheels would get me to 50". Again, this is my rookie math, and that landed me with what i have now.

I am not sure that I will go long travel, but I guess I will see.