416/426 or 440

[400exshop]

Witch one do you think will put out more HPor be faster ? I was doing some reading on a few site's. And from what i have read the 426 is the way to go. can some one tell me how that is ? You would think the 440 would be the man of the 3 .

[bherriman]

87 mm piston is lighter and easier for the "explosion" to push the piston down and allow it to come back up. This usually results in more hp it the upper rpm and allows for quicker revs/throttle response. The 440 has a bigger heavier piston and usually produces more power lower in the power and is slower to rev. There is no replacement for displacement, however.

[400exshop]

Just called chad @ chad502ex.com and he said the 426 with a 12.1 is the best way to go. unless you go with the stroker kit and he said dont go over 12.1 comp.

[CJM]

Depends on what you ride, your looking to out and out race then there is no replacement for displacement.

If you want an all around fast quad that will keep up with some other stuff a 416 w/ 11:1 or 12:1 will do fine.

Always good to do a 450r carb and a hotcam or sparks cam too when you do the build like this.

[whc]

I just completed a 416 with 11 to 1 comp. stage one hot cam, mildly opened air box. stock exhaust with end mod. rejetted one up on the idle jet and 168 main. I am very impressed with the low end power increase pulls to the limiter harder, only problem is pinging under load. went to 105 octane fuel. only pings now when lugging under full throttle when hot. I just purchased a larger oil cooler and will be installing it this winter with a fan for the radiator will post results. Bill

[killer400ex]

ive spoken to a few diffrent mechanics and had a few convos with my shop teachers and such and they convinced me that the 426 was the best all around package, and i think it is honestly, it is large enough to make a big difference in the low end punch but it also revvs extremely quick, if your going for drag motor then a 440 stroker is the way to go, if your looking for a motor mor for track or gncc or xc then id say 426 no doubt, 406 and 416 are for people who were too scared to go big

[bherriman]

Originally posted by killer400ex
ive spoken to a few diffrent mechanics and had a few convos with my shop teachers and such and they convinced me that the 426 was the best all around package, and i think it is honestly, it is large enough to make a big difference in the low end punch but it also revvs extremely quick, if your going for drag motor then a 440 stroker is the way to go, if your looking for a motor mor for track or gncc or xc then id say 426 no doubt, 406 and 416 are for people who were too scared to go big


Haha too scared? First of the difference between a 416 and a 440 is not enough to scare you. There have been many a 416 that can walk all over any 440. Secondly Most people go 406 or 416 because it leaves them another bore on the stock jug. What is the purpose of buying/installing a sleeve that is only good for one bore and you are screwed if something would end up happening to it. The only reason people go 440+ is just to say they did it. If the 440 made un-godly amounts of power more people would go that route, but it doesn't. You can build a nice 416, be just as fast, have another bore left in your jug, and keep engine temps lower. Thats the reason people go 416 not because they are scared. If you get scared on a 400 ex with any engine build you are in the wrong sport. Don't get me wrong 400s make excellent power and at times you do need to hang on pretty tight, but the power is controllable and you know when its coming. Its not scary fast, or powerful. It's just a flat out blast to ride.

[trxredrider]

Originally posted by bherriman
Haha too scared? First of the difference between a 416 and a 440 is not enough to scare you. There have been many a 416 that can walk all over any 440. Secondly Most people go 406 or 416 because it leaves them another bore on the stock jug. What is the purpose of buying/installing a sleeve that is only good for one bore and you are screwed if something would end up happening to it. The only reason people go 440+ is just to say they did it. If the 440 made un-godly amounts of power more people would go that route, but it doesn't. You can build a nice 416, be just as fast, have another bore left in your jug, and keep engine temps lower. Thats the reason people go 416 not because they are scared. If you get scared on a 400 ex with any engine build you are in the wrong sport. Don't get me wrong 400s make excellent power and at times you do need to hang on pretty tight, but the power is controllable and you know when its coming. Its not scary fast, or powerful. It's just a flat out blast to ride.

x2 - The above post was the exact reason I went 416 instead of a 440 when I had a 400ex...

If you are racing just make sure that you are in better physical condition than the rider on the 440 and you will beat them on the 416 with a much better chance of finishing the race (in XC terms).

[CJM]

Exactly why I went with a 416, I can bore it out once more if need be (I dont want a 440) and it will be fine.

[-TheDude-]

i went with a je 416 piston, stage 2 hotcam, crf450 timing chain, and also put a full hmf exhaust and a oversized oil tank and i race xc and have no prob keeping up with a 450 in the open parts. ex's arent liquid cooled so you just have more of a chance of heating up and blowing if you go with a 440

[killer400ex]

Originally posted by bherriman
Haha too scared? First of the difference between a 416 and a 440 is not enough to scare you. There have been many a 416 that can walk all over any 440. Secondly Most people go 406 or 416 because it leaves them another bore on the stock jug. What is the purpose of buying/installing a sleeve that is only good for one bore and you are screwed if something would end up happening to it. The only reason people go 440+ is just to say they did it. If the 440 made un-godly amounts of power more people would go that route, but it doesn't. You can build a nice 416, be just as fast, have another bore left in your jug, and keep engine temps lower. Thats the reason people go 416 not because they are scared. If you get scared on a 400 ex with any engine build you are in the wrong sport. Don't get me wrong 400s make excellent power and at times you do need to hang on pretty tight, but the power is controllable and you know when its coming. Its not scary fast, or powerful. It's just a flat out blast to ride.

first of all i was kidding around, so go change your tampon and grow the hell up, and second yeah it might leave one bore size left but whats the point? unless you reallly are mechanicaly retarted or dont know how to ride you shouldnt worry about having to bore up after the first time unless you are looking for more power, and i could almost garantuee that my 426 would walk your 416s any day

[Nac's22]

The little that I've gotten to ride my 416 since I rebuilt it I will say that it out performs what it used to be as a 440. It runs cooler and revs faster, I wish I would have done a 416 instead of a 440 in the first place. It wouldn't have cost me so much money either.

[CJM]

IDK I had no issues hanging with 450Rs last weekend. My gearing needs to be changed to truly take advantage of it but I held my own.

My 416 has made me very happy too :)

[bherriman]

Haha ok man....where is Steve with all his smiley faces when you need him?.....

[400exshop]

i have not seen a 416 or 426 put out what my 440 does on the dyno. and i have not seen a 416 or 426 bet us on the track. and i must say i sure haven't seen one run 7.91 in the 1/8 mile. i have seen them run 9.20,8.90 and 8.80's but not 7.91 and my 440 will put it down.

[honda400ex2003]

Originally posted by bherriman
Haha ok man....where is Steve with all his smiley faces when you need him?.....

Here I am, I have been supe busy the past couple of days. :( :( anyway, i have been watching this train wreck unfold for the past day or two waiting to pounce on it and show what needs to be done for this thread to have any validity at all.

I think that the 416 is the best all around piston available, the 426 probably revs faster but thats about it. They can all have around the same amount of HP considering the same parts in all of them with the same compressions. I ran 34 hp on mine after 2 years on it. I think that is very good, it had around 1500 miles on it after the rebuild and before it was dynoed. a 426 with the same mods and same compression wouldnt be that much more imo. maybe 36 hp which really isnt enough to shake a stick at. the rider will make a bigger difference than that if drag racing. My 416 will run with an 450 imo. it may pull it a bit but not enough to make it worth a grain of salt. I know some that i could def beat, they are just too big of pussies to race me. its the "you have alot of engine mods done im not gonna race you" deal... lame imo.

anyway, no need to argue, this is supposed to be a place for informational discussion not getting your panties in a bunch every chance you get. Lets keep these threads productive and lets all learn something from it.

Numbers are the key. I dont want drag numbers for this or that, thats what the drag section is for... I want to see hp numbers with close mods for each one. i know there are guys that have numbers around, they just dont come on here too much anymore. alot of them have switched to the 450s :( and forgot about the 400. this data is the important data to get. side by side comparisons of at least some dyno charts to be able to see changes, the other problem with that is though, that the dynos themselves can read drastically different also. one may read low, while the other may read high resulting in a 2-3 hp difference each way depending. This can create issues with the data anyway since we are only talking about differences of a few hp. Eric your machine is running nos now and without that isnt anything special imo. you didnt have much over 40 or so hp so that isnt worth bragging the way you do about it.

Not to start anything and just using this as an example since this has been argued time and time again and it is creeping toward another drag time thread as usual... numbers on a track dont mean anything, your son is quite small by the looks of the pictures. you get on it and run it, see how much your time goes down then- imagine the hp/weight your son has compared to a 180-210 pound guy running him. that alone is a huge advantage to a race. if your son weighs 150 lbs and your 400 has 40 hp that is .26 hp/ lb - a 200 lb guy with 40 hp .2 hp/lb that is a difference of .06 hp/lb which doesnt seem like much but is when talking about .01 or so seconds in 300 ft it is. then you add nos and get 60 hp- now take your 150 60/150= .4 hp/lb this is twice as much as a 200 rider without nos. how can anything not running nos compete with something that is...

Take rons 450 test, that is a great side by side test. he did 2 different tests to find out where the power was at and how much there was. I compare my chart to his and see that he is making 32 hp and i am making 34 with a 416 and really am disappointed in my 416 after those numbers. It has however beat other 416s with more compression so it all depends on how the power is delivered. Im not going to say that his dyno was off or mine was off since they should be quite close. he spent quite some time squeezing out every last bit, while I only ran 3-4 times. which imo isnt enough but at 50 to set it up and 50 an hour got quite expensive. I was there an hour just doing that since I had to set it up and such myself.

I was quite disappointed in that also, the guy didnt help at all, he was under the impression that it was my dime and he wasnt even in the room for 25 minutes of the hour. I put the slicks on and took them off for the 50 bucks... whatever i guess im not going to go there anymore than i already did, it will just aggravate me more than i am already.

just showing numbers, dont jump all over me:

steve

[bherriman]

Originally posted by 400exshop
i have not seen a 416 or 426 put out what my 440 does on the dyno. and i have not seen a 416 or 426 bet us on the track. and i must say i sure haven't seen one run 7.91 in the 1/8 mile. i have seen them run 9.20,8.90 and 8.80's but not 7.91 and my 440 will put it down.


Dude you have an all out purpose built drag bike. You should make more power than everyone else. If people took there 416/426 and purpose built it for drag racing then we would make more power also. 85% of people have 400ex's to Ride trails/xc...the other 14% hit the mx track..and you have the few like yourself who drag. I would say most everyone builds their bike to produce decent HP and still be reliable enough to do whatever kind of riding they feel like at that certain time. The problem here is your quad makes very nice HP but all you can do with it is take it down they track. If you are going to compare motors you need to compare one that are built for the same purpose.

[honda400ex2003]

Did I scare everyone off? Didnt mean to. Lets see some numbers with mods listed for each machine. There is someone out there with a slip on, 10:1 426 with a stage 2, post it up if you have any sheets. even 11:1 with the same mods. 416s 11:1 same mods, i know people are out there with the sheets we just have to find them. steve

[3400ben]

Well put Steve-O. I get sick of this which is faster. There is a lot of variables to add in. Championships can be won on both if you talk racing. I raced a bone 400ex in a all 450 class in xc. I was 2 in the state that year. I have a 416 this year and I'm one race away from a class championship in a all 450 class. Everybody likes what they have. I would listen to the guys that had one or the other and switched. I have rode 440's and 416's and I chose 416. I liked the quick rev. 99% of people do not ride there machine to it full potential or correctly so does it matter which is faster? If you want to go fast in a straight line than listen to the drag queen up top. If you want to race see what the racers are doing. If you want to just putt around leave it stock and save your money. Variables: soil type, tires, riders weight, riders ablity, air temp, gearing, chains condition, compression, and so on. This is why you need a dyno. You can take a motor that has 3 or 4 more horse and it still might not be faster than a weaker motor because of the variables. Too many variables, and too many LIARS to get the truth. Steve has come up with a start to answer the question but this question will never be answered!
[/list]

[honda400ex2003]

i just get tired of all of the he said she said bull that comes along, I have this it is the fastest thing around where i live yada yada yada. Numbers are where it is at. It seems everyone is quite quiet now for the past couple of days... steve

[09RappySe]

Numbers are just numbers, depending on the dyno...and really don't mean squat. I do agree about the too many variables.

[CJM]

IDK Im rather happy with my setup, anything more and I think I would have a hard time handling tight trails.

[400exshop]

This was not to be about drag racing. It was to be about motor's and witch kit is a all around ( best kit for the money ) and for us all to put are 2 cent's in. becouse i drag race some of you jump befor you think. and say here we go again anthere drag racing / how's faster. and that's not what i post it for . p.s can some one remove this or lock it please be for some one get's the boot. p.s we need to stop with all the hateing on each other.


Thanks

[honda400ex2003]

I dont see any hating nor a reason for this to get closed. it is a good topic and needs to have more input on this subject for sure. I wanna find out some of thest logistics of each of these and find out if there is a best all around setup as you have discussed also. lets keep the discussion going and find some info around the site to show other setups and such. steve

[honda400ex2003]

465, 41 fcr, stroked crank with a 12.5 piston custom machined reliefs and crown, stg 3 cam, custom exhaust, 1mm valves and ported.
http://www.exriders.com/vbb/attachment.php?s=&postid=3346733

426-Dyno

11-1 comp
ported head o/s valves
41 FCR carb
Loony tunes Daul Exhaust
15-34 gearing
http://www.exriders.com/vbb/attachment.php?s=&postid=3032658

J E 426 piston I bought through DRG bored it and put my ported head on it from 508 with my T/C GNCC cam and 41 FCR 200 main and Looney Tune Dual Exhaust and made a few pulls .
http://www.exriders.com/vbb/attachment.php?s=&postid=2776527




http://www.exriders.com/vbb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=211880
JE 10:8:1 416 bore, C&D head work, hot cam old stg 2, HMF sport series full system, 39mm fcr, ehs racing air box lid. 165 main
http://www.exriders.com/vbb/attachment.php?s=&postid=2091679

last run...38.08 hp 27.56 torque. we took off the lid and ended up with a 175 main. not bad I think for a basic 416 on gas. I am happy. he told me he had dynoed an 05' 400ex stock for a reference a few months ago and it pulled 25 hp.http://www.exriders.com/vbb/attachment.php?s=&postid=2091689


http://www.exriders.com/vbb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=223383
This was ,origanally, a Trinity 460ex . The customer said that it made between 42 - 44 h.p. with 89mm bore x 74mm stroke. I installed a 91mm JE 12.5:1 piston , re-ported the head , installed 34.5mm stainless intake valves , a set of my heavy duty head studs , balanced the crank , made a custom air inlet to replace the stock air box and inlet , MSD ignition with a 6 degree advance key , installed a G T Thunder exhaust for the dyno ( Laz's pipe makes the same peak h.p. as the Sparks x-6 big core stainless shorty , but , Curtis's pipe gives a broader t.q. + h.p. curve by about 300-500 rpm's ) , I used one of my cam's ( approx. 260 degrees at .050 and .420+ lift , Kibblewhite spring kit and bronze guides , 41mm fcr with a 260 main ( that was the biggest jet that we had and it picked up ,allmost , 1.5 h.p. over a 250 main . That's about the whole 9 yards . He did install a fuel injection system on it , later on , and he said it picked up a serious amount torque + mid range without changing the top end.
I've also got a 518ex (92mm x 78mm ) with a 14.7mm long rodhttp://www.exriders.com/vbb/attachment.php?s=&postid=2194291
http://www.exriders.com/vbb/attachment.php?s=&postid=2194342


http://www.exriders.com/vbb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=238077


http://www.exriders.com/vbb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=204541

http://www.exriders.com/vbb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=196196

http://www.exriders.com/vbb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=196080

http://www.exriders.com/vbb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=196195

http://www.exriders.com/vbb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=196191

The pics didnt upload as they were supposed to so you will have to click on them and open them up. all of these are from the 10 pages of dyno section. if you are bored you can read all of them. steve

[400exshop]

this is what i have been able to do with a little help from nos on my 440 ex

http://i825.photobucket.com/albums/zz179/ericcrip/dsc01774.jpg

[bherriman]

Look at all those huge motors putting up big numbers...That's pretty sweet.

However what are you gonna do with 50+ HP other than go in a straight line? Sure, some people would love to have a 50 or 60 horse 400 to drag race, but not me. I would rather spend around 6 to 700 bucks on a 416 and make 35-40 HP and be able to ride it anywhere, anytime I want. You have to account for the massive amounts of money those guys spent to get that much power and how useless all that power is when you can't use it.

[honda400ex2003]

:D im happy with mine thats for sure. steve

[CJM]

Originally posted by honda400ex2003
:D im happy with mine thats for sure. steve

makes two of us, ever since you guided me to do the mods I been grinning ear to ear.

Massive power is nice for a straight line, but to much power riding around can be dangerous and cause issues imho.

[honda400ex2003]

i have had mine for over 2 years and EVERY time i get off of it, it surprises me again and i have a big smile. :D just like that one. steve

[bherriman]

Originally posted by honda400ex2003
i have had mine for over 2 years and EVERY time i get off of it, it surprises me again and i have a big smile. :D just like that one. steve

So you only have three teeth?

[honda400ex2003]

yup! how did you know. lol :D :D :p it is that easy to tell? steve

[honda400ex2003]

imagine the heat that a 500+ would make. :eek2: :eek2: :eek2: it is halloween, that is def scary!!! steve

[400exshop]

i can ride mine the same as you can with your's when it not running on the drag strip it's in a trail.

[CJM]

Originally posted by 400exshop
i can ride mine the same as you can with your's when it not running on the drag strip it's in a trail.

Wish I could ride that way, guess it takes getting used to but stock vs even mine its harder to ride for me cause of the power-then again I ride on lose sand trails

[bherriman]

Originally posted by 400exshop
i can ride mine the same as you can with your's when it not running on the drag strip it's in a trail.

So you take that thing on the trails with a solid front end and all the other b/s?