mod the 250r or buy 4stroke

[Banshee_370]

hey guys, im looking for a woods/trail friendly atv. right now my 250r has served its purpose but i was realy thinking of picking up a newer 450 with efi, or do i do exhaust and maybe some port work to the 250r?

how do these bikes with basic mods compare to the newer efis? my buddy has a 700 efi and its nice that he never has to rejet for weather or elevation.

[atvmxr]

250r !

for the most, the "old" 250r and the "new" valve poppers have more power than be fully utilized in the woods.

I find my 450, even after dropping a front sprocket size, is still geared too tall for really tight woods and more prone to stalling.

Being at sealevel for my base jetting, I dont really ever rejet when I go somewhere, even on trips to Glamis or Waynoka. I could spend time changing jets, reading plug chops, etc. to get right on the edge of max performance, but I just take a slight decrease in power and spend that time riding. I only worry about rejetting if Im en danger of going lean..

[speedfreek]

I bought a 4 stroke for woods riding and my R is basically a mid to top end drag racing bike.

[troybilt]

I'd go with a 450 and rekluse z-start pro for tight trails but that's just me. With my XC 250r bike I'm on the clutch ALOT... I'm still wanting to run an EFM auto-clutch, it just seems that several other items have been taking precedence.

Also reverse would be handy... Anybody ever figure out the CDI reverse idea?

Why be like everyone else? Enjoy the benefits of a 2 stroke and the nostalgic & legendary persona that goes with a 250R…

Upgrade to a 330R-350R, and then you can lug around like a 4 stroke and keep the 2 stroke feel & performance.

Carlos.

[Banshee_370]

i have a banshee as my drag/open field bike.

Banshees are cool, legendary they are not…

You can’t beat the handling & quickness combination of a 250R, not on a Banshee. With a 330R or 350R kit, you add more power to the rear wheels than a 450 four stroke on a much lighter machine.

Carlos.

[Saleenster]

Originally posted by Banshee_370
i have a banshee as my drag/open field bike.

post a picture of your drag banshee

[Ruf Racing]

So you have a 250R and a Banshee? The only thing missing is the 450R. As long as you are not riding in extremely tight trails, you can gear and mod the 450R to your liking. :D

[wilkin250r]

Originally posted by acecarlos
Banshees are cool, legendary they are not…

How can you say they aren't legendary? It holds the record for the longest production run of any ATV.

They might not fit YOUR riding style, but that doesn't mean it isn't a terrific machine in it's own circles. If you're looking for maximum power, (without some goofy streetbike hybrid) the banshee is it. No question. There are more motor upgrades for the banshee, and more fancy, shiny, aftermarket bling available for the banshee than for any other quad. They revolutionized big-bore power, cheetah cylinders were out long before Saber ever was.

[Ruf Racing]

Originally posted by wilkin250r
How can you say they aren't legendary? It holds the record for the longest production run of any ATV.

They might not fit YOUR riding style, but that doesn't mean it isn't a terrific machine in it's own circles. If you're looking for maximum power, (without some goofy streetbike hybrid) the banshee is it. No question. There are more motor upgrades for the banshee, and more fancy, shiny, aftermarket bling available for the banshee than for any other quad. They revolutionized big-bore power, cheetah cylinders were out long before Saber ever was.

^^ Agreed ^^ :macho

[JM317]

I'm currently working on another 250R project, but I've also got a KTM 525XC setup pretty well for XC racing and it's about as good as it gets in the woods.

While a banshee may hold the “record for the longest production run of any ATV”, it is not a 250R and does not hold the same legendary status. Number of “upgrades”, “shinny bling” and an aftermarket cylinder does not make a legend.

Honda TRX250r is the King of formal quad racing, has the most loyal following, holds it value much better than a Banshee (at least in SoCal), and is currently the most raced 25 year old quad available.

Know, we can define “legendary” in many different ways, however; in its true meaning, and in my opinion; the TRX250R is in a league of its own.

Carlos.

[wilkin250r]

Originally posted by acecarlos
it is not a 250R and does not hold the same legendary status.

And that pretty much sums it all up. Apparently, if it's not a 250r, it can't be legendary.

Your world is limited to sanctioned motocross events. While the 250r is the King of formal quad racing, you're speaking pretty stictly about motocross. The 250r certainly isn't the king of drag racing, sanctioned or not, and I would argue that drag-racing is as valid a form of racing as any motocross, XC, or desert race.

Let me ask you this. Project in the future, do you think the YFZ will go down in history as "legendary"? According to your previous statement, it won't, because it's not a 250r.

[troybilt]

I think a legend can be what anyone wants it to be. Hell I'm a legend back home... :D just kidding...

The banshee is a legend in my mind and I know many others feel the same way. If a collective group decides that this or that is a legend then so be it. Some on here are almost too die-hard... give respect where respect is do and leave it at that... carry on. :macho

I honestly think it will be very difficult for another “legend” to come along in the TRX250R, ATC250R and Banshee world. The time and place are long gone; the YFZ does not hold the same innovativeness, the same era or place in history as the TRX250R.

In my opinion, not even Honda will be in a position to produce a “legendary” quad like the TRX250R, and even less of an opportunity exists for Yamaha. Part of the “legendary” status is based on the time in history, innovation, culture and luck…some of these may be present, all are not.

Carlos.

[Banshee_370]

look at the debate i started lol,

anyway, went to my local dealer just to check out the new yfz. i liked it alot. i was able to get them down to 5100 otd for a 2010 yfz450x or 5400 otd for the bill balance version, which i really liked


the way i look at is with the 450 i get efi, so no more messing with jets, air screws, weather changes, incredibly light throttle plus 20 years of new technology. and its a brand new bike. and i always have the banshee if i want to get on something that screams

if i keep the 250 i would most likely do a port job with new piston and bore (500), reed cage (150), exhaust (350ish), then maybe carb rebuild and jets. so about 1000 or so into it and i should be up to par with the new 450s speed wise but im still on 20+ year old shocks.

so do i mod the 250 or sell it ?!

[89trx250r]

you forgot when you decide to pipe that yfz your gonna need a 500 dollar efi controller along with pipe and filter = 1000 dollars hopefully

[latheboy]

IF i was gonna go 4 stroke, I would run a YFZ. I am loyal to honda, but I dont like how the 450r handles. To me, the YFZ handles more like a 250r than the 450r does. Although, the YFZ wanted to loop out easy on me. I suspect a better seyup and more seat time would cure that.

The way you sound, you are more interested in riding than tinkering/modifying. Might as well buy a 450 then.

In my area, a friend has a 04 450r for 2k.
http://appleton.craigslist.org/rvs/2000002610.html
If it eventually needs to be freshened up, tinker on a 450r! The honda 450r lower end is nearly identical to a 250r.

[wilkin250r]

Originally posted by acecarlos YFZ does not hold the same innovativeness,

It was the first to use an FCR carb stock instead of the CV style, first ATV to use titanium valves, first to have external reservoirs on the front shocks. Really, it was the first 4-stroke ATV to be aimed specifically at racing, a true high-performance machine. It's first year out, it had the podium in most of the major national championships.

How is that not innovative? How is that not the makings of a legend? It was the first of a new breed of ATVs.

[D Bergstrom]

Originally posted by wilkin250r
How is that not innovative? How is that not the makings of a legend? It was the first of a new breed of ATVs.

Another thing, the motor is based on the motor that STARTED the four stroke revolution. I would say it is a decendent of innovation at the very least. If it wasn't for the YFZ450, I bet my TRX450's wouldn't exist, much less any of the other 450's.

To the original poster, buy a 4 stroke as your second quad, you won't regret it.

Doug

[250r4life]

Originally posted by wilkin250r
It was the first to use an FCR carb stock instead of the CV style, first ATV to use titanium valves, first to have external reservoirs on the front shocks. Really, it was the first 4-stroke ATV to be aimed specifically at racing, a true high-performance machine. It's first year out, it had the podium in most of the major national championships.

How is that not innovative? How is that not the makings of a legend? It was the first of a new breed of ATVs.



I'm with you regarding the Banshee and the YFZ...

Prior to the YFZ, i thought i would have my 250R forever (hence my screen name). What were my other options...? A raptor 660, a 400ex, a ds 650... right...

i used to laugh at guys who rode 4 strokes. well, the YFZ came around and completely changed my and many others view on 4 strokes.

i

[troybilt]

Agree with all said above about the the yfz... I believe the yfz has the makings of a legend in the future forsure, imo though, something can't be a legend if you can still buy it new from the dealer. If we are truly re-living 1990 again and the trx450r is gone, then this will quickly become legend status as well in my mind. I could be wrong here, but I think the 450r has won more races, baja, mx, etc... than any other 450... don't know the truth to that statement but it sure seems accurate.

To the OP, like stated in my first post. You'll enjoy the 450.

FCR carb, titanium valves, external reservoirs on the front shocks…all products that been used and in existence long before the YFZ. What defines innovativeness is not repackaging old ideas; it is the breach of new ground based on new “event changing” technologies.

The TRX250R totally changed racing as it was known for over 15 years; in its time, Honda TRX250R’s breached new ground and created an “event changing” technology…it changed ATV racing into what we have today…that my friend is the mark of a “legend”.

“Legends are made not born”…the era, the culture, the design & performance of a TRX250R, the racing venues, Honda, and luck are a few of the ingredients that “made” the TRX250R the “legend” it is today.

Time (among other circumstances) will tell us if the YFZ is the TRX250R legend of the future. For now; only one true legend exists; the TRX250R…

Carlos.

[headache]

hell all the old two strokes are legends. The Lt250r changed the atv world like no other has.. Sure it may not have the glory of the 250r in some peoples eyes but i love mine, and as long as your riding a two stroke your riding a legend to me!!

Yes all the 2 strokes are "legends"...some more than others!

Carlos.

[croat1]

back to the original thread/question...depending on what your financial situation is i would purchase a 450 as a rider bike and keep the R for kicks. thats what i did. sell the 250r and you will regret it. i bought a 08 trx450er this past summer as an all purpose/buddy/lazy/long trail ride/spare mahine. figuring it would make me happy going riding but also making my 250r's last longer. do i like (450er)????yes! will it every replace my 250r's? NO. its up to you...how much do you want the 250r? if it came down to having one bike it would definetly be the 250R.

heres what i purchased

[Ruf Racing]

I couldn't agree with you more, Joe! Both bikes are very enjoyable.

[89trx250r]

i prefer the yfz over the 450r idk about the rest of you on here but to me the 450r feels very tippy and the front end is questionable... but on the yfz i feel much lower center of gravity and safer if that makes sense idk also ive been hearing that people prefer the older yfz's to the new ones... this is the quote i heard today at the shop ("the old ones are quick and light and the new ones are heavy and slow") so just take that into consideration when choosing your 4poke :)

[latheboy]

If you choose a new machine, ride them first. Try to choose based on how they feel to you, not so much of what brand it is. The yfz and the 450r ride/handle quite a bit differently from each other. I have never been on a ds450 , a ktm525, or a kfx450. I suspect they all have a somewhat diffferent feel.

[1promodfan]

Well, I'm partial to 2-strokes and the TRX250R. But since you have one, maybe look at getting a 4-stroke. They are fun quads to ride, and they make power everywhere. Like most up here, I like Honda's, but if I had a choice of a 4 stroke, those new YFZ 450's are hard to beat. That have really raised the bar when it comes to 4 stroke technology.

As far as legendary, yes the TRX250R is just that. But if I remember correctly, Honda built it to compete with the Suzuki LT250. When it came to moto-cross the TRX250R was hard to beat. But when it came to flat track, the LT250 dominated.

In 1987 Yamaha came out with one of the best built machines ever.......the Banshee. I can't remember how many times it won the Baja 1000, and when it comes to drag racing, they CAN'T be beat....(dollar for dollar or cc vs. cc) What the Yamaha Banshee has done in the drag racing world (IMO) will ever be topped. So yes the Banshee too is legendary.

Don't take this personally Carlos, but there are a lot of quads and trikes that are legendary. Also you forgot to mention BDT motorsports...........:D

Croat1’s statement describes it best “if it came down to having one bike it would definitely be the 250R”…

1promodfan: agreed, “there are a lot of quads and trikes that are legendary”…some more than others, and thanks for acknowledging the BEST builder…:)

Carlos.

[jcs003]

the banshee also dominates pikes peak. but motoX and XC is where the 250r always shines.

Hard to beat twin cylinders in a drag race, even if we match CC to CC, here the 250R is at a disadvantage verses the Banshee.

MX & XC is the 250R’s home turf…

Carlos

[Banshee_370]

ok just an update here is what i have found for sale locally:

yfz450x for 5100 otd

08 leftover trx450r for 4400 otd.


is the yfz being efi and better suspension worth more?

[watts16]

Originally posted by acecarlos
Banshees are cool, legendary they are not…

You can’t beat the handling & quickness combination of a 250R, not on a Banshee. With a 330R or 350R kit, you add more power to the rear wheels than a 450 four stroke on a much lighter machine.

Carlos.
Thats my plan. Im wanting to have a 330 in my build. Im starting in a few months.



Originally posted by Banshee_370
ok just an update here is what i have found for sale locally:

yfz450x for 5100 otd

08 leftover trx450r for 4400 otd.


is the yfz being efi and better suspension worth more?

I have a trx450r. Ive raced it for a few years. I rode a 2010 yfz and I really liked the way it handled. But I also feel so comphy on my trx.

[trxPOWER]

somebodys never herd of a cannodale moto 440.... look it up, actully pretty cool, STOCK: 50inches wide, fuel injected motor, piggy back front shocks,reverse mounted motor with intake on the front!