Engine rebuild

[450R NOOB]

Starting the tear down on my 450 for the rebuild. Doing it for my senior project and has to be done by Nov. 30th. Planning on crank, bearings, seals, maybe piston and clutch. Any pointers would be helpful. I haven't ordered anything yet so if anyone has advice on that please share. I'm going for reliability, already got the power I want with cam, pipe, valves, and 11:1 piston (will be 12:1 if i get one). If anyone has a list of the part numbers for all bearings, seals, and stuff that would help too. I will include many pictures as I need them for my project and also go over any bumps I encounter so hopefully this thread will help others with their rebuild. I can probaly get a crank puller and case splitter, since I've heard not using them can damage stuff, from a mechanic but I don't know what else is needed.

[Baileygunns]

What year are you building?

I have links to the 04/05 and the 06+ service manual... If you don't have one you'll want one!

OEM crank bearings... Shoot for the 12.1 piston, find a cam.. Go slow and pictures are the best memory when putting it all back togeather.

[450R NOOB]

Oh yeah, it's an '05. Yeah I got a manual, I guess I will probaly go with the oem crank too since it's the cheapest from Service Honda. I have a Hot Cam stage 2, are you saying I should get a new one since I'm rebuilding or did you just not notice in my first post?

[Baileygunns]

I missed that part about the cam... HC 2 is a great cam, keep it!

[Ruf Racing]

Sounds like you are off to a good start. Yes, pictures are a great future reference. Good luck.

[NeverLiftRacing]

I can't wait to see this is detail. I am about to do the same this winter to get it ready for next years series.

[450R NOOB]

Thanks. Still not sure what to order in terms of bearings and seals. So do I just go down the list on the cases and order every bearing and seal I see or what?

[450R NOOB]

Got it down to the piston this evening; just need to get the swing arm pivot bolt off to take the engine out. I've done this a few times so I just breezed through it without many pictures. If anyone has any questions about what was done feel free to ask. With a book, this much should be fairly simple. Picked up some pb blaster and going to let it soak tonight. If that doesn't work, could someone tell me how to cut it? pics of progress:

[ridein'red7]

a hammer and a punch or screwdriver or a air hammer to get the swingarm bolt out

[450R NOOB]

removed plastics, carb, exhaust, cam assembly

[450R NOOB]

head

[450R NOOB]

hangers, cylinder, main drive sprocket, oil cooler hoses, lower radiator hose, and other stuff. Everything but Swing arm bolt.

[RobRacing]

If your going to replace your crank and such you need to take the engine out of the frame. While its out power wash your quad it is in dire need of a bath :eek2:

[DnB_racing]

depending on how many hours the motor has on it .... you might want to replace the cam chain! and put the CRF head gasket in for a little more compression

[Sjorge450R]

damn dude. Your scaring me with all of that dirt!!!! Always wash your quad and scrub with a brush before you think about doing this stuff.

[450R NOOB]

I just wanted to get that stuff off while it was still in the frame because I figured it would be easier. I pressure washed it before I started but apparently it didn't help much.:rolleyes: That cam chain probaly has less than 5 hrs on it.

[DnB_racing]

to help clean off old dry built up dirt... first spray with the whole quad real good with penetrating fluid and let it sit over night, the dirt will clean off much better!
to keep my quad looking clean i always spay with wd40 after every wash, any mud or dirt that I get riding cleans off with ease!!

[450R NOOB]

Thanks for the tip bud. So I'm resorting to cutting the bolt out. Can anyone tell me where to cut it. Do I cut through the collars? because I don't see how I can get to them with a sawsall.

[Ruf Racing]

Originally posted by 450R NOOB
So I'm resorting to cutting the bolt out. Can anyone tell me where to cut it. Do I cut through the collars? because I don't see how I can get to them with a sawsall.

Yes, cut through the collars. I had to do the same thing. I used a cut-off blade. Good luck ;)

http://i532.photobucket.com/albums/ee328/RideRed187/Random%20Pics/Grinder.jpg

[3racers]

Yea, we had to cut one too cut the collars with a dremal and cut off wheels took awhile and a few wheels.

[DnB_racing]

when assembling make sure to use the proper thread treatment, (the right loctite or when needed never seize)

[450R NOOB]

Ok, I'm sure you guys think I either gave up or forgot about the thread but I haven't. I've just been swamped with school work and my job and hardly have time to sleep anymore. I ended up cutting the pivot bolt out with a blow torch. Didn't have the camera when I did it but took out airbox and had a pretty clear shot on the collars. Took off the right crankcase cover and the clutch except for the part that needs a clutch holder. going to my uncle tonight to use his airgun and try to spin it off. Also took off right crankcase cover and flywheel nut and hopefully my uncle will have a flywheel puller for me to use. While taking my right crackcase cover off, I pulled my oil filter and found shavings. :scary: I guess I picked a perfect time to tear it down. My question is, do I need an oil cooler? It's not many shavings and there will probaly be more than that from all the new bearings and such going into it.

[450R NOOB]

a

[450R NOOB]

c

[450R NOOB]

Will this work on the trx?

http://www.rockymountainatvmc.com/vehicleSelectProd.do?prevVehicleType=2&prevMake=4&prevModel=&keyword=&vehicleTypeId=2&make=4&model=727&year=&navTitle=Tools%2FShop&navType=type&webCatId=22&webTypeId=140&prodFamilyId=27659&stockId=&listingId=&uri=%2FproductDetail.do
Got the nut off but need this to torque it back down.

[450R NOOB]

Where can I find the parts refered to in the picture. Bottom one is a snap ring from flywheel side.

[DnB_racing]

one of the parts are the race for the bearing, they come with new bearings! it is allready on the crank are you spliting your crankshaft??

[450R NOOB]

Thats great news. I just didn't know what it was and wanted to make sure I didn't have to replace it. Got any idea where that snap ring is in service honda?

[eastside 400]

90652-KY4-900 its the oil pump drive gear clip and dont be surprised if you dont really find anything wrong, there really isnt much metal in that filter, i always have some type of debris in mine

[450R NOOB]

what $700 and some will get you - je 12:1, oem crank, crank bearings, seals, some swing arm stuff, and some gaskets.

[450R NOOB]

homemade case splitter. Very happy to see it work as it was basically free. Laid the engine down with weight on the crank and tapped the case and it came right out. Started running through tranny but no pics yet. Any advice on what I should look for. Don't know what "dogs" are. The gears look strong.

[eastside 400]

you didnt really need to bother with a case splitter, they come apart easy, just some taps with a rubber mallet. the dogs are the 4 "claw" type pieces on the gears, not all the gears have then but some do, other gears have the openings for the dogs to engage into, check for wear on the edges of these areas.

[bwilliams450er]

Originally posted by eastside 400
you didnt really need to bother with a case splitter, they come apart easy, just some taps with a rubber mallet. the dogs are the 4 "claw" type pieces on the gears, not all the gears have then but some do, other gears have the openings for the dogs to engage into, check for wear on the edges of these areas.

yea, you def shouldn't have to use a splitter, a few love taps should do the trick when splitting the cases. if they aren't coming apart, better double check there aren't any bolts still holding it together. might hear a CRACK if you do. and that crack is bad news

[450R NOOB]

Finished the build. Pretty knowledeable about the engine now so if anyone has any questions please ask. I have one question though, should the shifter shaft beable to move at all. Mine can move in and out of the case about a quarter inch. Is this normal?

[eastside 400]

it should have a small amount of movement but not a 1/4", i dont even think it moves enough to put any measurment on it

[450R NOOB]

So it should have a little play and no real movement? I took the cover off and made sure everything was sitting right and it all looked good. The clutch covered the stuff in front of the shift drum but the shaft fit good. It seems like the only thing keeping the shaft from coming out is the cover so i don't see what could cause movement.

[eastside 400]

something isnt on right, it shouldnt be tight like binding, you can wiggle it a tiny bit but no in and out movement

[450R NOOB]

Took the clutch and all that off and saw that I have an aftermarket guide plate. There is only one hole in the plate and it has a notch at the top. Who the hell would create an aftermarket guide plate? Anyway, I'm going to take the plate and stuff off and see how everything looks. Could the plate be the source of my problem? Maybe it was like this all along.

[DnB_racing]

possibly for a crf??
edit: nope not crf, I looked at a bunch of different oems and couldnt macth it??? aside from only having the one hole the fittment looks fine, as long as the drum is lined up that should work without issue

I found this on ebay its the same as yours




http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220425831522&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

[eastside 400]

that shouldnt be the cause of your problem though. if the plate is the same thickness which it appears to be close enough that wouldnt creat 1/4" of play in the shaft

[450R NOOB]

I just saw that it was different and was wondering. I just put it all back together and the exact same thing. I'm stumped. I think I'm just going to run it see what happens.

[DnB_racing]

you didnt forget to put the thrust washer on did you??

as long as the shift spindle doesn't come of the collar it should be fine

[450R NOOB]

thrust washer is on but the snap ring wasn't in the groove on the shaft. I moved it into the groove and it looked like it that would make it work. Should the snap ring be in the groove? The spring can move a little with it in the groove.

[450R NOOB]

Got it back together and ran it some. I have 2 problems. First, it has a loud inconsistant tick at low rpm and maybe mid rpm. It will cut off when idling like I used to have it, which was low enough to dim the lights, and the click seems to become consistant when it starts to cut off. I think it has to do with the decompression mechanism but I will let a mechanic friend listen to it and see what he thinks. My second problem is my kickstarter. I went to start it yesterday and after a few kicks, it lost resistence. I pulled the right crank case cover and clutch and saw that the first idle gear bushing had come off. It messed up the back of the clutch outer but not bad. What could I have done wrong to cause this? What keeps the bushing an from sliding off the shaft anyway?

[DnB_racing]

there isnt a first idle gear bushing, only thust washers. there is a kick start idle gear bushing for the 31 tooth idle gear that wont come off. the gear holds it on and there is a plate to hold the gear on/

[DnB_racing]

this one in yellow?

[450R NOOB]

Yeah thats it. I didn't feel like looking it up and thought it was right. Can you install the bushing backwards where the gear doesn't hold it on. I hope I wasn't that small minded but it sounds like it would cause this.

[DnB_racing]

ya it only will stay on one way