Frame Repair?

[Honda 250r 001]

Heres a pic of the frame im going to begin repairing. Im planning on cutting the section of the frame completely out from the top shock mount bar to the bottom of the frame and re welding a new one in. How hard do you think this will be to do? Do i have to have special welder to weld Chromoly? or will a regular mig work?

[Honda 250r 001]

another. Do you guys think there is a better way to do this? i just want it to look and perform great for me.

[Honda 250r 001]

last one I thnk this was welded with a arc welder possibly. its pretty crappy welds.

[profab250R]

obviously not a stock frame. I would say this frame is repairable however it will never be as strong as it was. i personally (owning a fab shop) would not use this frame. once you cut that piece off at the "shoulder" it will want to shift the entire frame in ways unknown. so... my profesional opinion is buy another frame.

[croat1]

i agree with profab250R. man that frame looks rough. once you cut out that part of the frame everything is going to shift. it can be done but its going to take alot of work. how do you plan on doing this? jig/fixture? there is a reason why people send used frames back to laeger, walsh...because they have the right tools to do the job. not as easy as cutting it out and rewelding. all the alignment has to be 100% correct.

good luck

[profab250R]

as you can see too this frame has already had some shoddy repair work. which to me seems that the frame geometry is probably already off because of this repair. now you dont know the original dimensions and to properly repair this frame the entire rear half from directly behinf the radiator/ head stay would have to be cut off and replaced.

[Honda 250r 001]

In between the top two shock mounts it says LS96. I assume that means lonestar 1996. Wold lonestar still have the jig for this frame to repair it?

[troybilt]

If you do cut that section out weld in tack-bars across... we do this all the time at work, this keeps the frame from moving when you cut a main structure point out. It still may move on ya some though... then when you weld in the new piece, cut the tack bars off afterwards.. I plan to do the same thing on an ATC frame eventually, to build a CR500 link ATC frame for a buddy.

Its do-able, but difficulty is a much higher than the average person can do, imo.

I agree with croat and profab...

[troybilt]

Also remember heat distorts... so when you weld things move, I forget the exact equations, but a welded joint tends to pull objects in towards the weld. You should build some sort of fixturing jig off of another "good" frame so you can makesure nothing shifts when you cut apart and weld in new peices...

[Burns310r]

Sell it to me, i will fix it and use it.....

[Honda 250r 001]

Originally posted by Burns310r
Sell it to me, i will fix it and use it..... i would want too much. Im going to fix it my self. either build a jig to hold it in place and replace this section, or just grind off whats there now(****ty welds), re weld, gusset and use it as a duner frame.

[profab250R]

ok i gave it a little more thought and if you absolutely have your mind set on this frame, the what you need to do at the very least is cut this rail off at the link mount/ swingarm crossmember. and remove everything up to the rear of the headstay on the kicker side of the bike.. fab new tabs and brackets for mounting things. then bend and weld in a new rail. use a large square to make sure everyything is square that is supposed to be. tack every joint while measuring before every tack, then measure everything again and tack the opposit side of each joint, then measure again, and tack 90* fram your last tack, then measure again, then tack the opposite side of every joint you tacked. measure, then start welding. try to completely weld a joint with equal heat completely around, starting on one end do one weld then move to the center most joint and weld. then move the the previously welded joint and move one closer to the center joint and repeat in an alternating fashion making sure to alternate between high joints and low joints. this should get you a nice repair with little to no distortion or warpage in the frame. Also becareful because chromoly gets brittle if you apply to much heat.

[Honda 250r 001]

Originally posted by profab250R
ok i gave it a little more thought and if you absolutely have your mind set on this frame, the what you need to do at the very least is cut this rail off at the link mount/ swingarm crossmember. and remove everything up to the rear of the headstay on the kicker side of the bike.. fab new tabs and brackets for mounting things. then bend and weld in a new rail. use a large square to make sure everyything is square that is supposed to be. tack every joint while measuring before every tack, then measure everything again and tack the opposit side of each joint, then measure again, and tack 90* fram your last tack, then measure again, then tack the opposite side of every joint you tacked. measure, then start welding. try to completely weld a joint with equal heat completely around, starting on one end do one weld then move to the center most joint and weld. then move the the previously welded joint and move one closer to the center joint and repeat in an alternating fashion making sure to alternate between high joints and low joints. this should get you a nice repair with little to no distortion or warpage in the frame. Also becareful because chromoly gets brittle if you apply to much heat.

The thing is, frames are expensive and I think these old Lonestar frames are awesome and i didnt want to see such a piece of history just get scraped because its got a small section thats bad. So im going to attempt to fix it, Thank you for the info profab! The only thing that im confused about is where you think i should cut and replace? Your saying from where the swingarm bolts on, on the very bottom of the frame, following that tube all the way up and around to the head stay should be replaced? Oh and also do you think it would be dumb to try to have this welded with a MIG welder? they create quite a bit of heat should take it to someone and have it welded?

[Honda 250r 001]

no other oppinions?

[croat1]

heres what i would do:
option 1: sell it to burns310r. save your money to get a good frame.
option 2: any bike builders (chopper) in your town? they are usually a good group of guys to work with. maybe they can help

[Honda 250r 001]

Originally posted by croat1
heres what i would do:
option 1: sell it to burns310r. save your money to get a good frame.
option 2: any bike builders (chopper) in your town? they are usually a good group of guys to work with. maybe they can help

Thats a good idea! ill have to look around for shops like that. Im sure there are some in wichita but thats 80 miles away, ill just have to drive it there. We have a machine shop in our town that has built sunflower discs before ill see if there interested in doing it.

[profab250R]

sorry it took so long to get back. yes that is what i suggest is to cut from lower crossmember up and around the bendgoing foreward and cut it off at the head stay in front of the gass tank.
when repairing steel structures sleeving may do but actually replacing the entire piece of tube is the correct way to do it.

mig is ok for chromoly just make sure to use the correct wire and 100% argon. practice on scrap first to get your setting and travel speed down. undercut is way worse with chromoly than anything elses because how brittle it becomes when too much heat is applied. the best to correct undercut is increase travel speed, reduce voltage, or increase wire feed speed. or a combo of the three. pre heat with a propane torch to obtain a nice clean bead, this helps burn contaminants in the metal and soften the metal up and reduce instantaneous heat change.

[Pumashine]

Originally posted by croat1
heres what i would do:
option 1: sell it to burns310r. save your money to get a good frame.
option 2: any bike builders (chopper) in your town? they are usually a good group of guys to work with. maybe they can help

Option 3: Send it to profab250r and have him fix it for you. Would save some time because all the stuff he is telling you to do takes experience. Do one thing wrong and take the chance.

I really am just kidding. But its worth taking it to someone who knows what they are doing.

[Honda 250r 001]

Originally posted by Pumashine
Option 3: Send it to profab250r and have him fix it for you. Would save some time because all the stuff he is telling you to do takes experience. Do one thing wrong and take the chance.

I really am just kidding. But its worth taking it to someone who knows what they are doing.

Yea ive decided its out of my range to fix. My paps is a pretty good welder but its the tube bending and i want it tig welded. So im going to call around to some fabricators and see if they can do it. Profab250r, would you be interested in fixing it?

[profab250R]

I am always interested in fixing or fabricating quad parts. However be prepared that any half decent fabricator will charge you round $300 plus shipping

[Honda 250r 001]

Originally posted by profab250R
I am always interested in fixing or fabricating quad parts. However be prepared that any half decent fabricator will charge you round $300 plus shipping

Thats around what i was hoping to have it done for. The shipping is whats going to kill me. So are you saying that you would be interested in doing this if i cant find another option?

[profab250R]

I am definitely interested in fixing for you if you can't find some one local. I am not sure if they would do a quad frame or not but I shipped aq huge front bumper accross country through grayhound bus for $25

[mxduner]

i was just gonna mention greyhound. I think that is a good price for that amount of work

[Honda 250r 001]

Originally posted by profab250R
I am definitely interested in fixing for you if you can't find some one local. I am not sure if they would do a quad frame or not but I shipped aq huge front bumper accross country through grayhound bus for $25

What is grey hound? Never heard of this shipping company.

[mxduner]

the greyhound bus service. You can go to a hub, sometimes at a gas station lol and if they got the room, they take it. You can check out their routes on their web site. Then contact them. some times it will sit at a hub till they get room, but usually main routes go at least 3 times a day. they will put them in the under cab storage area

[profab250R]

honestly $300 for this repair is a smokin deal considering this is probably a job that will take more than an 8 hour work day in terms of either removing and reusing mounting tabs, or fabricating complete new ones, as well as bending the frame rail, cutting the old one out, measuring and straitening frame as you weld new rail in, and finishing her up with removing any spatter, and contaminates. I can also have the frame powdercoated for a fairly good price too as I get significant discounts at a GREAT powder coater. I am not sure on the powder price but I will get a price for you and give you a full estimate next week.

but in terms of the $300 price tag it also is due to consideration of the value of the frame in total. I cant charge $800 to fix a frame that was worth ~$1200-$1500 brand new. I could but I wouldnt get much business. At this rate I am actually making less than $35 an hour after materials and supplies. In general my shop fees ar atleast $50 an hour for general clean up and repair on a simple repair, but because of my passion and a lowsy economy prices for certain items will lower as well. But in the end I still enjoy doing it, and as Confuscious once said... do something you love and you will never work another day in your life.

[Honda 250r 001]

Originally posted by profab250R
honestly $300 for this repair is a smokin deal considering this is probably a job that will take more than an 8 hour work day in terms of either removing and reusing mounting tabs, or fabricating complete new ones, as well as bending the frame rail, cutting the old one out, measuring and straitening frame as you weld new rail in, and finishing her up with removing any spatter, and contaminates. I can also have the frame powdercoated for a fairly good price too as I get significant discounts at a GREAT powder coater. I am not sure on the powder price but I will get a price for you and give you a full estimate next week.

but in terms of the $300 price tag it also is due to consideration of the value of the frame in total. I cant charge $800 to fix a frame that was worth ~$1200-$1500 brand new. I could but I wouldnt get much business. At this rate I am actually making less than $35 an hour after materials and supplies. In general my shop fees ar atleast $50 an hour for general clean up and repair on a simple repair, but because of my passion and a lowsy economy prices for certain items will lower as well. But in the end I still enjoy doing it, and as Confuscious once said... do something you love and you will never work another day in your life.

dude you have no idea how much i would love for you to fix this frame. Think you could weld new motor mounts in for another 100?

[profab250R]

Yes i would do that

[Honda 250r 001]

sounds good. i will look around and see if i can find these grayhound shipping places. And ill be in toutch

[profab250R]

do me a favor and post pics of the entire right side of the frame

[Honda 250r 001]

Whoops i lost track of this thread. I will get you a picture tomorro or thursday.

[86 Quad R]

must not have been that high of a priority? hahaha j/k :D

[Honda 250r 001]

Originally posted by 86 Quad R
must not have been that high of a priority? hahaha j/k :D

welll it kinda hasnt been high on my priorities lately. I picked me up a 98 YZ 125 dirtbike. :cool:

[86 Quad R]

Originally posted by Honda 250r 001
welll it kinda hasnt been high on my priorities lately. I picked me up a 98 YZ 125 dirtbike. :cool:


HEY!!!! at least you're keeping it 2 stroke. now get that frame tended to. :)

[Honda 250r 001]

Originally posted by profab250R
do me a favor and post pics of the entire right side of the frame

Where specifically are you located so i can get a quote on shipping through greyhound. If you want, PM me.
Thanks

[Honda 250r 001]

Is anyone still interested in fixing this frame for me now that I have some cash saved up?
Thanks
Will

[Honda 250r 001]

Frame pic for profab2504

[Honda 250r 001]

Thanks guys