700cc Two-Stroke Single Cylinder ???

[Langbolt]

I saw this on the other site....

http://www.zabel-racing.de/en/home.html

I bet that must be a Severe Torque Monster!!!

:devil:

[wilkin250r]

There was a company several years ago called Blackwidow ATV that made some big 2-stroke engines. The first time I saw them they were making a 750cc engine, but they never really took off.

I little web search found reviews and press releases on a 625cc engine they called the "Redhead", but I can't find any current information on them....

[rustyATV]

Might be similar to this

http://articles.superhunky.com/4/52

[troybilt]

Originally posted by Langbolt
I saw this on the other site....

http://www.zabel-racing.de/en/home.html

I bet that must be a Severe Torque Monster!!!

:devil:

Yes, they use those in side car motocross... they are torque monsters. One of the engineers from Maico went off and started his own company making the Zabel engines. I've wanted to do a hybrid with this motor for along time. I joined European Sidecar forum awhile back just so I could get some information about those motors. You can find those motors for 1500 to 2k U.S.... All the parts and service would come from the Netherlands though...

[rustyATV]

Originally posted by troybilt
Yes, they use those in side car motocross... they are torque monsters. One of the engineers from Maico went off and started his own company making the Zabel engines. I've wanted to do a hybrid with this motor for along time. I joined European Sidecar forum awhile back just so I could get some information about those motors. You can find those motors for 1500 to 2k U.S.... All the parts and service would come from the Netherlands though...

Any of them counterbalanced?

[89trx250r]

heres a section from the maico article

[89trx250r]

You might well wonder how they get a single-cylinder engine of this size to run without vibrating itself to death. Simple. The crank is balanced as if the engine would turn the more-or-less normal 7000 rpm. But, with the power peaking at 4000, the engine never even gets into the shaking range. In fact, it puts out less vibration than a mildly tuned 250 play bike.This leads one to ponder a few things. For example, if the big 760 were allowed to run up there in the high rpm range, what kind of horsepower would it turn? The Maico engineers felt 65 to 70 horsepower at the rear wheel was not out of the ballpark. A small drawback is encountered, though, if the 760 is allowed to breathe fully. It’ll shear conventional frame tubes in a rather short time. When the engine is allowed to spin to its max, the vibration level becomes unmanageable. No gearbox will tolerate that load for long, and the conventional Maico primary chain drive becomes grossly over-stressed. The stock Maico clutch will turn into a stack of Doritos under 70 ponies. Thus, the deliberate detuning is not only desirable, but necessary.When one considers that a normal 490 Maico can handle a solid 50 horsepower to the rear wheel for a season, with no hassle, then the rather mild 43 horses on the 760 will seem well within sensible boundariesTHINGS PECULIAR TO THE BEAST

thats from that article about the 760

[troybilt]

Yes a big bore can be built to build peak power at low RPM thats exactly what Duncan did with Triple EEE's desert bike back in the 90's, I posted the article in trx250r.net.... It ran a CR500 that was tuned to build peak hp at 3/4 throttle, i.e lowing the vibrations. I don't think that is what the Zabel engine is though.

[89trx250r]

also thought this was pretty funny

"With the stock 2.5-gallon motocross tank in place, the 760 only managed 15 miles before it was sucking wind through the float bowl"

[jcs003]

i believe why they arent getting big numbers is because of the shear size of the bore. two strokes have low intake velocities and that will hinder peak output. this is why a 125cc can put out impressive peak horsepower numbers that arent far off 250cc. with the sacrafice of torque of course. the infamous 125cc "lightswitch" hit comes to mind in my observation.

[troybilt]

Originally posted by jcs003
i believe why they arent getting big numbers is because of the shear size of the bore. two strokes have low intake velocities and that will hinder peak output. this is why a 125cc can put out impressive peak horsepower numbers that arent far off 250cc. with the sacrafice of torque of course. the infamous 125cc "lightswitch" hit comes to mind in my observation.

I've read the Zabel and Maico motor put out big numbers.

Here is the 2010 Maico bikes, http://www.maicointernational.com/html/mx-2010.html

Here is a video of the 700 Maico bike, (similar but not the same as the Zabel)... check out the torque at idle.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTXBoM7GqkI

The Zabel motor is similar to the big bore Maico's as it was an ex-engineer that started his own company in the Netherlands.

google sidecar motorcross, there are plenty of youtube videos out there on those too.

[troybilt]

Saw this on youtube, check out this big bore 2 stroke:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T108reErAkU&feature=fvw

[jcs003]

Originally posted by troybilt
Saw this on youtube, check out this big bore 2 stroke:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T108reErAkU&feature=fvw

that was awesome!

[rustyATV]

Originally posted by jcs003
i believe why they arent getting big numbers is because of the shear size of the bore. two strokes have low intake velocities and that will hinder peak output. this is why a 125cc can put out impressive peak horsepower numbers that arent far off 250cc. with the sacrafice of torque of course. the infamous 125cc "lightswitch" hit comes to mind in my observation.

In addition to that, big bore engines have a lot more combustion chamber to burn off with the same amount of time. Notice that some of the Zabel engines have two spark plugs. Plus, I believe the have to run lower compression to combat detonation and increased rod stretch.

[mxduner]

Originally posted by troybilt
I've read the Zabel and Maico motor put out big numbers.

Here is the 2010 Maico bikes, http://www.maicointernational.com/html/mx-2010.html

Here is a video of the 700 Maico bike, (similar but not the same as the Zabel)... check out the torque at idle.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTXBoM7GqkI

The Zabel motor is similar to the big bore Maico's as it was an ex-engineer that started his own company in the Netherlands.

google sidecar motorcross, there are plenty of youtube videos out there on those too. holy f that bike in the sand is 1 BEAST! anyone ever ride a 2 stroke in the dunes, knows how much they get bogged down when coasting. NOT THAT ONE.

Also when he digs a kick stand, i have to clutch the crap out of my 06 yz250, which is by all the standards, the 2 stroke 250 to beat in the bike world. Not this 1 he just flutters the throttle a couple times. that thing honks

[jcs003]

Originally posted by rustyATV
In addition to that, big bore engines have a lot more combustion chamber to burn off with the same amount of time. Notice that some of the Zabel engines have two spark plugs. Plus, I believe the have to run lower compression to combat detonation and increased rod stretch.

good that you mentioned the two plugs. i started a discussion a while back as a cheap way to increase efficiency on our stock ignition. i, however, lack the electrical knowledge to get this accomplished.

also, this size of bore would benefit from some type of forced air induction of sorts.

[quad janern]

A video of a Husaberg quad with a Zabel 685cc 2 stroke engine. Nice sound but bad video quality

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gToYjVjGy5s

[89trx250r]

lol that guy was ripping those woods

[rustyATV]

Originally posted by jcs003
good that you mentioned the two plugs. i started a discussion a while back as a cheap way to increase efficiency on our stock ignition. i, however, lack the electrical knowledge to get this accomplished.

also, this size of bore would benefit from some type of forced air induction of sorts.

The guys I've seen do dual plugs on a 250R used a Banshee MSD ignition and, with the help of MSD Tech Support, set it to fire a couple of degrees apart from each other.

[slamdak8782]

that thing hauls

[mxduner]

Originally posted by rustyATV
The guys I've seen do dual plugs on a 250R used a Banshee MSD ignition and, with the help of MSD Tech Support, set it to fire a couple of degrees apart from each other. adding a 2nd plug would be no trouble electrically. machining a hole for the second plug would be the hardest thing imo. might have to move the original hole to get the optimum efficiency. There is a sled artic cat el tigre 5000 i believe, that had 2 plugs per cylinder. 1973-75 i think. but back then the 2nd was more as a back up :D

also on the twin cylinder sleds, and maybe a banshee, they fire twice per revolution. You can switch the plugs around and never know. my $.02:D