6.5 hp briggs

[svtctr]

a buddy of mine suggested i did a 6.5hp engine mod to my eton 50 cause he has a baja mini bike and thats what they do does anyone know if this has been done

[o4twinpeaks]

Why go through all the trouble of swapping in an engine when its so easy to rebuild the stocker and with a little tuning run way better that that brigs? If you really want to look into the brigs swap check out a site called heymow. I'm involved in some of the local mower races around here and that seems to be one of the more knowledgeable sites around.

[svtctr]

yeah i hear ya i would like to sell it later and i dont think anyone would like a frankinstein of a quad

[svtctr]

ok i take back what i said i did it and its amazing ill post pictures later and it wasnt hard to do and only cost me 300 bucks and if this engine goes pop then 100 bucks later it will be running again

[svtctr]

http://i651.photobucket.com/albums/uu240/svtctr/2012-04-15_19-19-40_516.jpg

http://i651.photobucket.com/albums/uu240/svtctr/2012-04-15_19-20-08_428.jpg

[svtctr]

so how did i do it?


welded a 1/8" think steel plate to the foot peds
flipped the swing arm
cut and welded the shock mounts to the new location
removed axle and flipped the sprocket hub
rerouted the rear brake cable
removed all skid plates

i bought$$$:

6.5hp Predator Honda Clone from Harbor Freight $100
10T 3/4 bore Torque Converter from Gokartsusa.com part#1002 $250
motor plate from Hotrodminibikes.com $40
filter kit from Hotrodminibikes.com $30
throttle linkage adaptor from Hotrodminibikes.com $10
54T sprocket from Northern Tool $30
New chain (420) from Northern Tool $20
throttle cable from Northern Tool $8

exhaust is better then shown i cut the flange from the stock 6.5hp engine and added a Harley-Davidson Muffler and it looks good and sounds great

things i found after the install
sprocket is to big cause the chain continues to fall off, thought about getting a chain tensioner but that $60 so i installed the stock 28T sprocket and over heated the clutch, so dont use a clutch it doesnt work, so im in progress of installing the gokartsusa.com torque converter and i think i will fix the chain problem and over heating clutch.
also im having fuel delivery issues, it will only run really good if i half choke it,
but i am getting speeds of 33MPH and thats better then before(15mph)

[bandit2026]

That is a neat setup. I have an eton lightning 50 that is in great shape and I'd like to fix it up for grand son but I'm tired of the 2-cycle hassle and battery problems. I would love to see more pictures and get some info on the final gearing. Any help would be greately appreciated.

[svtctr]

let me know what pictures you want me to get and ill take them, also whatever questions you may have please ask. this was pretty easy and it came together pretty quick, as long as you have access to a welder or you weld your self

final gearing not complete but i believe the torque converter will fix it but not sure, wont know til i get it in, mail is slow, when its installed ill take some pictures and post it

[bandit2026]

Hey man thinks for the repily!! Did you use the original fuel tank or the one on the clone? Any pictures you post of this project will be helpful. You said you flipped the swing arm assembly and also the the sprocket hub . Can you explain the part about flipping the sprocket hub? As far as gearing goes, this will be ridden by a 7yr old on somewhat hilly ground so speed is not a goal but maybe later. Yes I do have a welder so any fabrication will be no problem.

Once again thanks for the help.

[svtctr]

flipping the swing arm is required to do this swap so that the chain sprocket is on the correct side because of the rotation of the engine, the shock tabs need to to be cut and relocated, flipping the rear swing arm is a simple flip and requires welding on the shock tabs in the new location, basically opposite of what they are now. on the sprocket hub, you have to remove the wheel hub and then the two nuts that hold the axle in then slide the axle out the other side, slide the sprocket hub off and flip it and slide it back on. the reason for this is to get the sprocket further over to allow the engine to sit more towards the middle when you are lining up the chain. ill post more pics soon

[svtctr]

for the fuel tank i did use the original tank from the ATV to keep the same look and it holds the body up better too as i cut mine for convience of removal, i believe the fuel delivery problem im having lies in the fuel selector valve, so once i remove that ill let you know the results

[bandit2026]

I understand every thing you have said, now a trip to Harbor Freight and a side trip to Northern tool. Keep checking on me and I'll post some updates as I get them done. Thanks

[svtctr]

will do! post them up on this thread and ill know when you post up something

[bandit2026]

Got to work on the wheeler today. engine assembly removed, wireing harness removed and didn cut anything ha ha. Then removed swing arm assembly and upper bracket. thats about when I wore out. Tomorrow I will dissassemble the axel and flip the sprocket carrier. While I'm doing this, I'm going to look at putting the sprocket on the outside, this will space it further out by the thickness of the carrier and make gear changes easier. Still haven't made a parts run yet as I'm still trying to figure final gearing.
More updates as they come

[svtctr]

sounds good, i got the torques converter inon tuesday and its not an exact fit like i told it would be for a Honda Clone so ill have to make new holes and work with it from there so once it is mounted ill let you know and post a picture.

[bandit2026]

Got everything flipped and the axel turned. Wanted to put the sprocket on the outside but those studs were pressed in harder than I could press them out so I'll just live with it. Still thinking about gearing. The stock gearing on the idel side was about 4.25 to1. With your 10 tooth clutch and the 54 tooth sprocket it should have pulled pretty good as that is a 5.40 gearing. Is this how you got the 33mph? I got the motor and I'll probably start with the 10 tooth clutch just don't know what size sprocket to use.

[svtctr]

Bandit: i went to Gokartsusa.com and ordered a torque converter from them and i must say...... this ETON has more torque now then it did as a 50cc and im doing wheelies with it, so scrap the clutch idea and go with a torque converter
part# 1002, 3/4 shaft 420 chain 10T driven gear
or you will be very disappointed with the clutch set up. here are some pictures, i rode it today and got up to 31mph, might go a little fast with a straightaway

http://i651.photobucket.com/albums/uu240/svtctr/2012-05-13_22-30-01_813.jpg
http://i651.photobucket.com/albums/uu240/svtctr/2012-05-13_22-30-17_620.jpg
http://i651.photobucket.com/albums/uu240/svtctr/2012-05-13_22-30-29_727.jpg
http://i651.photobucket.com/albums/uu240/svtctr/2012-05-13_22-30-46_509.jpg
http://i651.photobucket.com/albums/uu240/svtctr/2012-05-13_22-31-18_153.jpg
http://i651.photobucket.com/albums/uu240/svtctr/2012-05-13_22-31-47_661.jpg
http://i651.photobucket.com/albums/uu240/svtctr/2012-05-13_22-32-26_303.jpg

[bandit2026]

Thats some really neat stuff. Glad you gave me a heads up on the torque converter. I was going on a shopping trip today and thanks to you I can skip a step. The pictures will be a great help and I see I've got to get to work.
Man 30mph on something that small is really hauling the mail!!

[svtctr]

oh 30mph on that little thing is a bit scary because its kinda narrow and my atv is not that stable at that speed but it will do.

on a side note if you look at one of the pictures you will notice that the middle support bar that above the swing arm bolt is missing.... i removed it so the chain wouldnt hit.

also because of this set up i have now with the 54T sprocket, there is vary little chain sag when i sit on it and the chain doesnt fall off anymore. whoo hoo, so you say your not really looking for top end but more of a hill climbing torque machine? i havent done any hills yet but im sure with this exact set-up you will have no problem going up decent sided hills.

on another side note, putting on this torque converter had me shift the engine way over to the driver side (LEFT) and that really centered the engine and none of the body hits the engine anymore

Exhaust: if i didnt mention it before, i used 3/4 inch metal conduit from home depot, so look around in the area and see if you can find a piece thats broke or bent badly and ensure you get about 3 feet of it, its not the best but it works.

[bandit2026]

I want to thank you for the pictures. Working on everything at once. Explain to me exactly how you mounted the motor. I'm somewhat confused. Oh yes I noticed that the motor mount bar was gone!!

[svtctr]

i welded on the 1/8 inch thick steel plate i would recommend using 1/4 inch think steel i think i will be better as far as the strength goes, weld that plate to the foot pads and order the engine plate from hotrodminibikes.com and once you get it in and you have the engine just mock it up and see where the bolts need to go. when my steel plate was welded on i ensured i had enough in front of the bar to put some bolts through, ill take a pic tonight and show you,

i suggest waiting to mount your engine until you get the 54T sprocket from northern tool and the torque converter from gokartsusa.com and engine plate from hotrodminibikes.com

[bandit2026]

Thanks, I went back and looked at the plate and I think I see what I need to do. But I'll wait on the pictures.

[svtctr]

updated the parts list!

[svtctr]

i hope you can see what im talking about i sent you a PM so check it and call me if you have questions



http://i651.photobucket.com/albums/uu240/svtctr/2012-05-15_15-14-58_467.jpg
http://i651.photobucket.com/albums/uu240/svtctr/2012-05-15_15-14-35_639.jpg

[svtctr]

the bottom picture: the bolts at the top of the pic is the front bolts, the bright piece on the top of the page is the mounting plate

[bandit2026]

Can't find the pm but no problem. All I need now is parts. You mentioned the chain as a #420 OK what are the differences in the 40 and 41 and the 420 This is a little out of my game.

[svtctr]

check out this link i hope it answers your question
http://www.gokartsupply.com/chain.htm
most minibikes run a #35 chain and Gokarts run a 40-41 chain and we have a 420 chain

the 40-41 chain stuff fits 420 chain that we have on our atvs, new chain from northern tool is only $15 or so bucks and its 10 feet long and you only need half or less so mistakes are not a problem but i would recommend loosening your chain tensioner and rolling the axle forward before making your chain length.

[bandit2026]

I can't tell you how much I appreciate your help. I guess at my age I become timid about buying something and it not being right. I can't tell you how much I appreciate your help. I would not have started this without your help. Tomorrow I'll head over to harbor freight and Northern tool and start gathering "stuff" Its a 50 mile round trip but its close to the V A and I was going anyway.

[svtctr]

not a problem at all, i enjoyed doing this build and with the out come as good as it is, im glad i did it, and now that you have interest in it, im more then happy to help you along the way so please please post pictures of your build so that we can prove that it is definitly possible. im sending you a PM now.

[bandit2026]

Finally found the PMs . really appreciate the numbers. I'll only use them if I'm desperate. Went on another parts hunt , chain no problem but sprocket might be. Could only find a 32 tooth and that was at a bike shop. said he might could get a 42 maybe a 48. But I'm still looking. With summer coming i might get real busy and not have time to work on it. but before I go, what did you have to do to the torque converter to adapt it to the clone engine??
Thanks

[svtctr]

ill take a picture and show you later today, if you want you can order the sprocket from northern tool's website
http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_26109_26109
this is the one im using and it works great, if i didnt mention it, you have to drill new holes so it will bolt to your sprocket hub, if you want me to ill go get you a sprocket from northen and get the holes drilled and send it to you? let me know what you want to do...

[svtctr]

here is the modification of the torque converter, it comes with 2 holes per corner and i just connected the two and made it one hole, then i cut the upper portion of the plate and drilled a hole, this was just to keep it from rotating.



http://i651.photobucket.com/albums/uu240/svtctr/2012-05-20_18-23-27_392.jpg

[svtctr]

heres some pictures of the finished product



http://i651.photobucket.com/albums/uu240/svtctr/2012-05-20_18-59-29_210.jpg

http://i651.photobucket.com/albums/uu240/svtctr/2012-05-20_19-00-06_319.jpg

http://i651.photobucket.com/albums/uu240/svtctr/2012-05-20_18-59-48_836.jpg


yes those are golf cart wheel i drilled a new lug pattern in.

[bandit2026]

Well you flat nailed it. They say imitation is the highest compliment and I want mine to be like yours. Ordering parts as we speak. May be awhile before I get back but I'll holler when I'm done or need some help.

[svtctr]

standing by

[bandit2026]

Hi, me again had a chance to check on some parts today and the sprocket from northern tool is not a direct fit. I went through the pictures again and I'm guessing you drilled the sprocket to fit. That would be no problem as a machine shop is close by. I'm just checking.

[svtctr]

didnt look through the post but i think i remember saying that it needed to be done,but if i didnt sorry, bring them the sprocket hub to ensure it gets centered correctly

[svtctr]

ive been having issues with running it from the very beginning with the carb and im only able to run it 3/4 choke so i ordered a new jet from hotrodminibike.com and took out the filter that is on the low side of the fuel tank and now i dont have any problem with it running right, no more choke.

btw i clocked 35MPH, cant wait to see what it does now, now that the carb jet is upgraded.

[bandit2026]

No problem, just thought I had missed something. Thanks for the offer though. Updates as they come.

[svtctr]

rejetted the carb and ill tell you its badass, i took it to the track for a drift practice and i clocked 43.5 mphwith the set up i have on here.

[bandit2026]

That is just wild. Working on mine as time permits. Made my own motor plate and getting sprocket drilled today.
Updates as they come!!

[svtctr]

cool, good to hear

[svtctr]

so i made a battery tray that is welded to the frame in front of the engine using a lawn and garden battery from wal-mart and it fits pretty snug and now i have lights again. i went with some LED lights front and back. now i need to find a new brake switch for the brake lever and ill have a brake light too.

ill post pictures later

[bandit2026]

Havent had time to work on mine lately, still gathering parts. Found an old racing gocart that may be my next project. I have looked at the pictures again and can't tell what throttle you used . In one picture it looks like the OEM thumb throttle. Can you adapt the northern tool cable to the Eton housing? What about length?
Can't wait to see the lights, I run a lawnmower battery and extra lights on my Yamaha Grizz to push snow.
Have fun!!

[svtctr]

yes the throttle cable is a northern tool gokart cable

[svtctr]

its kinda a weak video but heres the quad moving around
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysDZD7Gh7iY&feature=channel&list=UL

[JOHNDOE83]

You should remove the governer on that motor!

[bandit2026]

Its me again, finally got the torque converter. My mounting plate is a different one from yours but will probably have to do the same mods. Might have to mount it a little higher in the frame. Also did you open the engine and delete the govener or just diaconnect it in the linkege? liked the video!!

[svtctr]

govenor is still on, waiting on getting the better connecting rod.

[bandit2026]

From what I can read the flywheel is the week point.

[svtctr]

not sure about the flywheel but what ive read was, if you remove the govenor you have to upgrade the connecting rod and add dual valve springs
on a side note: when im running this thing i dont ever hear it top out and govern down so with my set-up it may not even be nessasary

if anything id like to get more torgue out of it.

[bandit2026]

Thats the way I'll start mine. I'm going to run mine through a modifed stock air filter to begin with so I probably won't have to rejet the carb. I did have to redrill the converter mounting holes as you did and do a little fileing and I'll mount it tomorrow with the chain on. When I get things lined up I'll weld the motor plate to the frame then I will probably try to fire this puppy up. maybe be ready for a test run about friday.

[bandit2026]

Got the plate clamped in and marked then removed and cut excess off plate. Reassembled everything into position and tac welded. Then took it all apart to weld top and bottom and through on a little paint. While doing all of this I noticed that the wheels could be reversed and pick up a little increase in tread width. With that done it looks like I might have gained about 5inches , looks better anyway.

[svtctr]

i did the same thing, it only sucks when you need to put air in the tire, but it looks better, your right

[svtctr]

also i ran my engine with the filter kit and some custom exhaust and it would drive well with it 3/4 choke so when i rejetted the carb i could open it all the way up and it ran really good then, only needed to choke it to start then it was good after that

[bandit2026]

Every thing is done now fired that puppy up, everything seems to be working fine except the throttle. Eton thumb throttle doesn't have enough movement to openthe throttle all the way. Going to a big gocart race tomorrow where they race these things, maybe pick up a few pointers and some used speed parts, who knows.

[svtctr]

AWESOME!!! i need to see pictures!! post them up!!

[bandit2026]

Been busy getting ready for a little vacation, haven't had time to do much. Went to the go cart race, they race a yellow clone that is sealed. Carb is wired on and so is the head I don't know what else. Got a couple of pieces for the throttle from a dealer and he says the valve springs on the HF predator will cause valve float at pretty low RPM. so if I open the air and re jet the carb and bypass the govenor the valve springs will go first.
I'll try to post some pictures when I get back from my trip.

[bandit2026]

Well "Quadzilla" lives. Took it for my first test ride and you were right, the front end will get light. My test ride was on a 150 yard gravel drive. Three words "unhook the govenor." I'll post some pictures later but other than the wheels and tires its just like yours same ugly yellow haha.
Look up a site called Bobs 4-cycle karting then go to karting forums then ohv motors, you'll find a forum for clone motors and all the info you will ever need. With about $200 worth of parts these cats are buzzing these motors to 6000 plus rpms. Believe I'll check on that cart frame this weekend.

[svtctr]

awesome, thas good to hear, i just got back from a day at Slates Park, just four wheelin around and i did get some pictures and some video of this thing beast'n it!!

[svtctr]

heres a video, not that cool, but had fun going through the mud and water, i only got in water that came about an 1 over the foot pads and it did great, didnt get stuck once and i followed the 3wheeler everywhere he went with out a problem, cant wait to do it again.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=clyif5XdVsQ&feature=plcp

http://i651.photobucket.com/albums/uu240/svtctr/wheelie1.jpg

http://i651.photobucket.com/albums/uu240/svtctr/wheelie2.jpg

[bandit2026]

Looks cool , have you removed the govenor yet?
Got me a new project, got me a go cart. Its an offset chassis with a full on flathead Briggs type motor. The catch is its been setting outside for 3 years, its a little rusty in places.

[svtctr]

no gov has not been removed, have you removed yours? and if so did it make a difference, cause i dont think it will cause my quad hasnt ever topped out and govern down, i dont see a reason to do it, when i feel it top out i will do it.

did you clock you pull start around so you can pull it from out side the fender vise under the fender?

did you wire in the kill switch on the handle bar to shut off the engine vise killing it on the pull start cover?

[bandit2026]

I never tried it with the govenor. After visiting the go cart guys, it looked easier to bypass and just run it streight through so I don't know the difference. And yes I did rotate the pull start works fine, even peeled the 212 sticker off and turned it. The on and off switch is still in the stock position but I'll probably relocate one up top for easy access.
I was going to add some heavy valve springs and a different plug to get a little more power but there is no place where I ride that I need it and I weigh 270lb.
Will try to post some pics soon.

[svtctr]

i wanna see some pictures of your conversion

[bandit2026]

I'm not up to snuff on posting pictures, can I email them to you?
Wife does pretty good though Started on the go kart, bought another predtor motor and got the warrenty incase I blow it up. This one will be a little sportier than the other. I took it apart and removed all the govenor works plus the low oil sending unit. I removed the valve cover and the valves were way out of adjustment. I'm going to install 10.8 valve springs so it should turn about 5500 rpm. The go cart guys say it will not stand over the 5500 without a new billet rod and fly wheel. I will try to post some pics or you can pm your e-mail and I'll try it that way.







/

[svtctr]

PM SENT

[bandit2026]

I e-mailed you some pics hope you got them?

[bandit2026]

Did you get the pics? Havent heard anything. If you unhok the govenor the rpms jump from about 3500 to 4800 and you will see a difference.

[svtctr]

got the pictures and they look good, im glad you got done with it, enjoy

[svtctr]

here are the pictures of Bandits conversion
http://i651.photobucket.com/albums/uu240/svtctr/100_6941.jpg
http://i651.photobucket.com/albums/uu240/svtctr/100_6942.jpg
http://i651.photobucket.com/albums/uu240/svtctr/100_6943.jpg
http://i651.photobucket.com/albums/uu240/svtctr/100_6945.jpg
http://i651.photobucket.com/albums/uu240/svtctr/100_6946.jpg

GOOD WORK MY FRIEND!

[svtctr]

so ive been busy making more mods to my little quad for no reason at all, just fun.

lowered it about 3 inches
moved exhaust
added dual valve springs
added 2 1/2" wheel spacers

front will be done tonight and ill post pics up when its complete but lowering the front does give a little but of camber but not to much id say about 3-5 degrees

when i sit on it the body rubs on the tires, but its cool it eventually wear where it needs it and all will be good(called custom fit fenders)
http://i651.photobucket.com/albums/uu240/svtctr/2012-12-03_16-23-50_14.jpg

http://i651.photobucket.com/albums/uu240/svtctr/2012-12-03_16-23-11_762.jpg

http://i651.photobucket.com/albums/uu240/svtctr/2012-12-03_16-24-16_136.jpg

http://i651.photobucket.com/albums/uu240/svtctr/2012-12-03_16-24-33_259.jpg

http://i651.photobucket.com/albums/uu240/svtctr/2012-12-03_16-24-51_287.jpg

[svtctr]

http://i651.photobucket.com/albums/uu240/svtctr/2012-12-03_20-54-43_397.jpg
http://i651.photobucket.com/albums/uu240/svtctr/2012-12-03_20-53-43_120.jpg

[svtctr]

add this next
http://i651.photobucket.com/albums/uu240/svtctr/2013-05-19_15-18-01_912_zps4eaeff08.jpg (http://s651.photobucket.com/user/svtctr/media/2013-05-19_15-18-01_912_zps4eaeff08.jpg.html)

[svtctr]

installed! wish i could tell you what it came from
http://i651.photobucket.com/albums/uu240/svtctr/2013-07-30_22-37-46_117_zpsc6e9ccb9.jpg (http://s651.photobucket.com/user/svtctr/media/2013-07-30_22-37-46_117_zpsc6e9ccb9.jpg.html)