What should a MX track do for us? ATV's

[manban]

I keep on wondering sometimes, how we keep from going under.

Look I just would like to hear your say.

What can a track do to make it more enjoyable for the ATV's that come onboard and spend a day and hard earned $ just like everyone else.

Please no arguing, Just "OPINIONS" and if you have a good reason to disagree, Then lets hear it.

And hopefully, Some tracks will begin to understand, that these simple changes can make it so much better for ATV's & Dirtbikes, that are sharing the track for the day.

Enjoy
&
Godspeed!!!!!

[deathman53]

what about a GOOD track fro atv's and not a watered down version of the dirtbike track. I know the dirtbike tracks are more advanced, but the shouldn't be such a huge difference as they are know. Look at NJORVP, the dirtbike track and atv were very very far different, when E-town had atvs on the small mx track(not the dirtbike practice track), the tracks that were at Rausch Creek, I'm told Landing MX(Delmarva) is the same way now with atvs on boring track w/ 4 jumps and Blue Diamond, dirtbikes have a great track, atvs have a track that wasn't much better the NJORVP, never/badly groomed and you need skid plates on it due to rocks/boulders on the track. All these places have a class A dirtbike track and class D atv track, there is no reason for this. Breezewood Proving ground, now that place is good, there is no dirtbike and atv track, both are on the same track and its not boring. Atco has been watered down since the last few years, but last time I was there, it was still a good track, however it seams they allow the dirtbikes on longer than atvs.

I'm honestly thinking of getting a mx dirtbike, far more places to ride it and far better places. E-town track is 5 minutes from me and open every sat/sun. My atvs rarely get ridden. The only thing ridden is my woods dirtbikes.

[jesseweaver]

Originally posted by manban


What can a track do to make it more enjoyable for the ATV's that come onboard and spend a day and hard earned $ just like everyone else.



small jumps, easy whoops, lots of tabletops :devil:

[JAG Motosports]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
"It's better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool, than to open it and remove all doubt"

[slightlybent47]

Down here they don't change the track for quads, we ride the same track as the bikes.

[jesseweaver]

Originally posted by JAG Motosports
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
"It's better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool, than to open it and remove all doubt"

haha take it easy im kidding

[muddy400EX]

Originally posted by jesseweaver
small jumps, easy whoops, lots of tabletops :devil:

shouldnt you be on thumpertalk or something:mad:










:blah:

[manban]

Honestly its the simple stuff that I notice go overlooked. I just wanna mention a few, and maybe if you dis-agree, then explain below.
1. why cant tracks groom a track, rid some ruts, somewhere at the middle of the day if they are running quads with dirtbikes?

2.Why cant atv's run first at a race event. We smooth the track, then they can rutt the sht out of it.

I just dont understand why people have to get injured, very badly, and some of these small changes dont take place.

Sorry but I am pissed, when I hear someone has fallen, and are not getting back up!

[muddy400EX]

the only way that track builders will do it to a quad riders liking, is if there is tons of quad riders. which there is not

i just hate tracks that have jumps right out of corners. i like wide open tracks with floater type jumps, where you kinda keep your momentum going. its just more fun to me

[manban]

Originally posted by deathman53
what about a GOOD track fro atv's and not a watered down version of the dirtbike track. I know the dirtbike tracks are more advanced, but the shouldn't be such a huge difference as they are know. Look at NJORVP, the dirtbike track and atv were very very far different, when E-town had atvs on the small mx track(not the dirtbike practice track), the tracks that were at Rausch Creek, I'm told Landing MX(Delmarva) is the same way now with atvs on boring track w/ 4 jumps and Blue Diamond, dirtbikes have a great track, atvs have a track that wasn't much better the NJORVP, never/badly groomed and you need skid plates on it due to rocks/boulders on the track. All these places have a class A dirtbike track and class D atv track, there is no reason for this. Breezewood Proving ground, now that place is good, there is no dirtbike and atv track, both are on the same track and its not boring. Atco has been watered down since the last few years, but last time I was there, it was still a good track, however it seams they allow the dirtbikes on longer than atvs.

I'm honestly thinking of getting a mx dirtbike, far more places to ride it and far better places. E-town track is 5 minutes from me and open every sat/sun. My atvs rarely get ridden. The only thing ridden is my woods dirtbikes.

WOW ! You got me thinking about getting a dirt bike!!!! LOL.... This upcoming spring. I will try national tracks, If they have an open practice, Ill haul and go. BPGround is a dream come true. I turned my Buddy GUS the chicken man!!!! and that was all it took. He's the cook with the killer BBQ- Chicken. and his lovely wife Debbie. But its 5.5 hours away... So be it... If only these local NE. tracks get it together. Rather than waiting for someone to get badly Hurt!!!!

[quad2xtreme]

bikes and quads ride the same tracks at NCMP. For the most part, the quads take a different line than the bikes to stay out of the ruts. I really don't see the two trying to race each other much at all.

I've recommended putting up some signs on the jumps showing which side is for quads and which side is for bikes. NCMP is very wide so this wouldn't be an issue. Obviously I am not talking about race days...just practice days.

I too recommended changing up how they run races. I think quads and bikes to 65cc should run on Saturday. Practice from 8:00 - 10:30 and racing from 11:00-2:00. Larger bikes can practice from 2:30 till 7:00 and then race on Sunday. I don't like racing much because I work all week. I don't want to sit in the parking lot on my day off watching others ride. I say practice, practice, practice then race and go home. Heck, I settle for a one moto format.

[KingpinsEx]

Originally posted by manban
Honestly its the simple stuff that I notice go overlooked. I just wanna mention a few, and maybe if you dis-agree, then explain below.
1. why cant tracks groom a track, rid some ruts, somewhere at the middle of the day if they are running quads with dirtbikes?

2.Why cant atv's run first at a race event. We smooth the track, then they can rutt the sht out of it.

I just dont understand why people have to get injured, very badly, and some of these small changes dont take place.

Sorry but I am pissed, when I hear someone has fallen, and are not getting back up!

Exactly, my track is the same way and it is very aggrevating, not to mention dangerous. The bikes make the lip on the jumps uneven and the rutted up corners make it one lined at best. Tracks need to either run quads on a different day, or run them first or last (with track maintenance). I don't see them regrooming the track, because, as was already stated the low rider turnout. However, the idea to run all the quads first makes sense. At any rate, something needs to be done, because it is turning more and more quad riders away due to not having a decent track to ride on. I'm not sure how much longer I can put up with it...

[Pappy]

Send teh track owner/operator to Breezewood for a weekend

[03whitetruck]

I was on the verge of getting out of quads and going to dirt bikes myself not too long ago. I use to race in District 29 ( NC and SC )for a while, but got tired of racing with only 1 or 2 guys on quads. We were like the red-headed step children of the district. It was kinda out own fault with a low rider turn-out the promoters would not put a big emphasis on the quads. I live 10mins away from an awesome MX track called Wide Open MX Park, but recently they banned ATV's. I had been a member of the facility since they opened up, but they had enough dirt bike guys complain about how hard it was to ride after a quad had been on the track. Since they have 100 dirt bike come in on the weekends and maybe 4-5 quads it was inevitable that we would get the shaft. Maybe the dirt bike guys should learn how to really ride that bike and learn that ruts no matter who makes them can be ridden. Why do they need a track all to them selves. Unless they pay more at the gate, we should have the same level of track to ride. Not trying to stir the pot or anything I get fired up about this subject. just my $.02

[manban]

Originally posted by Pappy
Send teh track owner/operator to Breezewood for a weekend

I will speak to my Wingman GUS THe CHickenman to throw in a Chichen Dinner...LOL..

But Honestly , I dont want to start this because I am sure they are and will be in much pain for years to come and forever and a day. A lovely life was lost recently... Cant say how or why, Its not my business. But I tell you this, If your a track Owner/ Or Operator, Make believe it was your Daughter or Son, and get moving and really do something about increasing maintenance.during the day. Rather than sitting there talking sh*t all day and collecting the gate fee, as if you are giving us gods Freaken Gift.... Take your track seriously to another level. Be the pioneer in truly creating changes that allow both Quads and Dirt Bikes. to do ride safely! I joined a track in Long Island, and the owner takes out the heavy mach... when his son is going to practice. Another place (No Name) in NY. Has the lay out for the guy who laid it out. Improves his skills, but thats about it.

**************

This weekend I try
HEADQUARTERSMOTOFACILITY.

If Its good ill tell you, if its another open collect the gate fee, and F*CK em type of place. I am Going to rip them apart.

BPG is out of sight. I love it. and a 5 hr haul is hard right now with a 10 year old getting into MX and a 99 dakota that needs front end work,,, and BTW $ is Tight. So when we pack and go some were. Can it at least be enjoyable, not only to ride but to see that the owner/ Operator is really prepping the Track thru-out the day. Running the correct size & type bike or Quad, in the best order possible. Watering more than just in the morning on a hot Aug day. COME _ON... You cant be that foolish. Have a real meeting, for 2 weeks, and hammer it out.
OR
THEN
AGAIN
Go to
BPGround
and
See
Dan !
Below is instructions on there page.
This is the secret formula.... and if you just DO THIS at YOUR track!!!! It will work!
That simple. Not Rocket Science, No Masters Degree Required!

Ask anyone whose been here before and they'll say it's the best all around Motocross park in the Northeast. Dan Harris (#584) has created tracks that cater to the absolute beginner (Pee Wee) as well as the advanced technical rider. All tracks are Motocross with doubles, tabletops, triples, step-ups and high banked berms and are groomed and watered regularly, and track layouts change often. All the tracks are open to both motorcycles and quads - all day practice... everyday!

HeadQuarters. get ready! Your next....
GOD BE WITH YOU!

[400grl]

I'm a die-hard quad girl, but I have also been considering getting a bike. Quads will never have the numbers or the pull that the bikes have - either fight it, deal with it, or get a bike. That's about where I'm at......

[quad2xtreme]

track owners can definitely help to draw quads but it is a catch 22. Quads need to show up in force to get recognition so the track owners feel compelled to offer more service to quad riders.

[Brad77]

I personally don't mind riding on a track that dirbikes just got finished with. Unless its just outright dangerous.
The bottom line is that it all has to do with the money.
Unless quads show up in large numbers most track owners will just turn quads away.
I had a track owner tell me that if they advertise a quad practice that out of approximately 100 bike riders 20 to 25 will just not even show knowing that a quad will be there.
He also said that in most cases only about 10 quads will show. So in other words its just a losing situation for the track owner. Losing several bike riders per one quad rider.

My bike to quad hate table is as follows
5% of bike riders actually kinda like quads, just for something being unique.
70% of bike riders really don't care that much but if given a choice they would vote no to quads
25% absolutely freakin loath and hate quads with a passion and would love to setup a collection jar at the gate to pay us to leave.

I ride quads and dirtbikes and enjoy them both but will always stand up for quad rights and I honestly wish that all the bike riders could sympathise with those of us who enjoy doing it on four wheels.

[manban]

can anyone tell me the reason why quads on a track are bad for a dirtbike? Example
I know Dirt bikes make ruts, which I cant deal with on a quad. But what do quads do to the dirt, that a DBike may not like to ride on?

[Brad77]

The only complaint I have ever heard is that we smooth out the turns.
Dirt bikes get those ruts in the turns and can go faster if they have that rut to rail around the turn. The quads slide in the turns instead of railing around the rut so they say we "polish" the turn.
This is my own opinion but honestly I feel if a track is prepped right that the damage is minimal when quads ride on it.
We used to have a track about 45 min. away from me. The tracks owners would really prep the track. The dirt was loose but not sandy. They watered it really good. My quad would barely slide in the turns. I could make turns faster by pressing my outside tires up against dirt that was pushed up by the dirt bike riders. So after running a few quads on the track, I could barely tell a difference. The berm was a little bigger because of roost of the larger quad tires but the turns were not smoothed out.

[dan harris]

Thanks for all the props on the Proving Grounds ! I spend alot of time working the tracks and its always nice to know that people recognize and appreciate it.

Bikes and Quads on the same track can work just fine, but it does require more maintenance. The bikes want the track loamy and not hard packed, because that makes it extremely slick. A bunch of bikes on a loamy track will only dig the dirt and make it loamy-er and more rutted up. Adding quads to the track packs down all the loamy dirt and blows off all the rest - leaving a very hard pack base. Then it gets dusty very fast - especially from the quad tires spinning around the corners - causing us to have to water more. The water on the hard pack track turns it into a skating rink for the bikes. Thus bikes don't like the quads. This is not a problem if the track is maintained throughout the day. I try and till the tracks each time we water them to keep it from packing up. Granted this makes alot more work - but if you can't enjoy running a tractor or dozer around a MX track - then your in the wrong business!! I enjoy working on the tracks as much as riding them !!!

What I'm saying is the bike riders complaint shouldn't be with the quads for wrecking the track - it should be with the track owners for not maintaining!! It sucks for US Quad riders that most track owners would rather write off the quads then put in the effort !!

I agree that I've never been to a track that has a seperate atv track that is as nice or better then their dirtbike track!!!

Hope to see you at the Proving Grounds where we LOVE QUADS !!

[KingpinsEx]

Sure owners complain about low quad turn out, but by not maintaining the track they are losing the ones they have. Personally we have a fairly strong local quad scene, BUT it would be alot bigger/better if the track was more quad friendly. I have talked to several riders who refuse to come back due to the ruts and or lack of maintenance.

[DEVINF450R]

I race both bikes and quads... im just a C-class bike rider but I can still tell a huge difference when there are ruts and there is hardpack or dusty loose dirt. the rut keeps the front tire from "washing" out... the a-class bike guys dont really care much b/c they are good enough to corner and race just as well but the "C" riders are where the numbers are for bikes... they have 2-3 C-classes and they all have full gates and they are all looking for a reason to explain why they went down in a corner or wasnt able to pass

I feel jumps are a NON-issue when it comes to the track unless they throw you high and have a small landing.
tracks here are running quads last. the only track prep they have to do is drag a harrow across the ruts in the corners where ruts are deep and maybe throw a little water on it. 15min track prep time, less fuel cost for owner and everyones happy