ATTN: Pappy and/or other electrical pros

[02 Red Rider]

I am having some sort of electrical porblem with my quad. Whenever I try and start it I get a repeated fast paced clicking from the "starter magnetic switch assembly" (The little metal cylinder that the fuse relay and a ground attach to). I thought at first my battery was dead so I tried charging it, no luck. So I bought a new battery and followed all of the setup procedures to the letter, still no luck. All connections have been checked and re-checked, so I have narrowed it down to some part failure I think. On my way home from work tonight I stopped by the Hardware and picked up a GB Instruments Multimeter (6 Funtion - 19 Range). I have no idea how to use the Multimeter yet (I will read the directions tonight), but I would like to know where you suggest that I take readings from and if you know what kind of readings I should be getting.

Thanks in advance for the help, i'm just at the end of my rope with this right now.

Jason

[Pappy]

are you running a stock cdi? and also...replace the fuses after you test the switch, then retest. also...remove the ground from teh frame and make sure rust hasnt deteriorated the connection...let me know how and what the readings are.

[02 Red Rider]

I tried with my both my WB Rev box and my stock. I just PC'ed the frame and cleaned away the PC from my grounding points with a dremel and sanded to bare metal. Fuses are good in the relay I repaced it just for giggles to be sure. Where Should I start takin readings from once I figure out how to use this contraption?

You've got a bad connection...garaunteed. It's one of the main wires running to your battery...at least that was my problem when it made the same identical sound your describing..

I'm almost postive your not getting a good ground...

[02 Red Rider]

Man Rico I sooo wish you were right, but I have checked my grounds so many times. Is there a way to verify the ground other than just looking at it and cleaning the connection?

Thanks,
Jason

[jerry-89-250R]

does sound like a bad connection, check everything they told you too, also check the HOT "red" wire from your battery too the starter relay, it bolts on top of it, make sure it's tight and no crossion if you take this wire loose un-hook it from the battery, for using your meter, put it on the volts scale to DC "it may be both a/c-d/c" set it on 20 or higher, put you black meter lead on ground and red lead on plus "red wire and test away"

[Pappy]

also check where the coil mounts to the frame...it also needs a ground.

[jerry-89-250R]

i'm not rico but put one lead "black" too a bare metal spot on your frame, put the red to plus on your battery and see what reading you get

[Leo]

if you just had everything powdercoated...

stick your meter on ohms.. put one lead on a metal part of the motor, and the other lead on the negative battery terminal (key off!)...

it should read 0 (or something close to it)..

if it doesn't double check your measurement a few times.. if it still shows high resistance then...

take your jumper cables from your car, hook the black to the negative on the battery, and the other end to the motor or a motor mount (if they are bare metal).. anything as long as it's a GOOD ground on the main portion of the frame.

If the quad starts take the subframe back off, clean away some powder so there is good metal to metal contact between the subframe and main portion of the frame. It's easy to have a poor ground connection between the frame + subframe on a freshly powdercoated bike (don't ask me how I know this!)

Leo

[Leo]

oh yea.. checking ground connections 101...

put one lead on the wire that's grounded (not bolt), and the other on the negative battery terminal.. set the meter on volts DC.

then, turn the ciruit on (so it's powered) turn the lights on whatever to put a load on the circuit.

if the meter reads more than about .1 volts you have a problem.

that my friend is voltage drop 101. to check any connection put on lead on either side, and power the circuit.. if you get more than .1 a volt or so high resistance is causing a voltage drop across the connection.

Leo

[jay's 300]

Mine done the same thing. Hook up a batt charger and set it to start. If it's the ground it will start right up, atleast mine did.

Hope this helps and sorry if you've tried this already! :ermm: :confused2

[02 Red Rider]

OK Fellas. A GREAT BIG THANKS so far for all of the help. I have tested as you have all instructed and found my ground both grounds to be good. I took a reading at the Starter Magnetic Relay Assembly at the battery/ground side and I have juice, however when I unplug the Yellow/Red and Yellow/Green connections on the opposite side and tested I get nothing. I double checked to make sure that I was taking the reading from the connections that lead to the Starter Magnetic Relay Assembly and not the connections that lead to the starter and ignition.

Am I to assume then that the Starter Magnetic Relay is junk? I think that I should see power to the connections shouldn't I?

Thanks,
Jason

[02 Red Rider]

Any of you guys still with me here?

Bump:D

[Leo]

starter relay operation...

the heavy gauge cable that runs to the battery should have +12v all the time.

the other heavy gauge cable (that runs to the starter) should have +12v when the button is pushed.

the yellow and green should be grounded as long as the quad is in neutral, or the the clutch lever is pulled in.

the yellow and red should have +12v when the starter button is pushed.

post your results and then I'll tell you the next step.

Leo

[02 Red Rider]

OK Leo,
Everything checks out except for this:

the yellow and green should be grounded as long as the quad is in neutral, or the the clutch lever is pulled in.

I get no movement on the meter regardless of being in gear or not.

[Martin Blair]

My 400 does the same thing after i was it i just change the fuse and it starts right up its really fishy, the fuse isnt blown, i just rotate fuses.

[Leo]

Originally posted by 02 Red Rider
OK Leo,
Everything checks out except for this:

the yellow and green should be grounded as long as the quad is in neutral, or the the clutch lever is pulled in.

I get no movement on the meter regardless of being in gear or not.

with the meter on ohms you don't get a reading of zero with one lead connected to the battery - terminal and the other connected to the yel/green wire?

Leo

[02 Red Rider]

Originally posted by Leo
with the meter on ohms you don't get a reading of zero with one lead connected to the battery - terminal and the other connected to the yel/green wire?

Leo

I get a zero reading on the ignition side regardless of neutral of in gear. I do not get a zero reading on the starter relay side of the yel/green connector.

[Rastus]

Maybe his Relay is bad?

[02 Red Rider]

TTT

[Leo]

Could very well be the relay.. easiest way to diagnose it would be to swap it out with a known good one (from a buddies bike!)..

I've even got myself confused so I'm going to re-word it a bit..

The Y/G should be grounded when the quad is in neutral, or the clutch is pulled in. If you've removed the stock clutch perch and tied those two wires together it will show a ground all the time.. to verify the ground set the meter on Ohms and put one lead on the Y/G and the other on the battery negative terminal. It should read 0 Ohms or very close to it.

The Y/R should show battery voltage (roughly +12v) when the starter button is pushed. Set the meter on the DC volts scale (20V DC should be good) put on lead on the Y/R wire and the other on the battery negative terminal with the quad in neutral push the starter button. Should be 12V roughly.

If both those check out than odds are the relay has crapped out.. If it's just clicking / buzzing than that may be the cause (or the battery / grounds are not right)..

****** BE CAREFULL IN THIS STEP********
1) put the quad in neutral, make very sure of this as it will roll away and / or start in gear if it isn't!
2) take something metal (screwdriver or whatever) and jump between the two heavy gauge terminals.. Be VERY VERY carefull that the screwdriver doesn't touch any part of the quad or you'll have just made a direct short to ground which at best would weld your screwdriver to the quad and at worst blow up the battery. When you jump the relay like that the starter should crank normally. If it does, buy a relay. If it doesn't re-check all your grounds etc... Basically all your doing here is bypassing the relay (all the relay does is complete the circuit between the two heavy wires and provide battery voltage to the starter motor).

make sense? if you don't understand clearly what I'm trying to say here, ask before you attempt it. I'm trying to help, don't want you to get hurt and/or damage your quad.

Leo

[02 Red Rider]

OK Leo,'

I placed a screw driver between the terminals in the pic below and all I got were sparks. I rechecked the ground to the relay again and I got 0 ohms. Does this mean that the relay is dead?

[02 Red Rider]

Your previous instructions were pretty clear. I was getting the correct readins since I did remove the stock clutch perch. Here is where I grounded the relay. The reading check out.

[phatswinn]

seriously, tighten the bolts on the batterys connections and on the ground, that is ur problem i garantee it

[02 Red Rider]

Originally posted by phatswinn
seriously, tighten the bolts on the batterys connections and on the ground, that is ur problem i garantee it

Really I know what your sayin but it's a brand new battery with new bolts. It's a fresh connection with no corrosion. Short of stripping the bolts the connections are as tight as I can make em. Thanks though I know you guys are just tryin to help.

[jerry-89-250R]

have you put your meter on your battery and hit the starter to see what reading your getting when the relay is clicking

[nick23]

guess were my battery is at...want to know how to do it...ask me

[02 Red Rider]

OK EVERBODY

1st let me thank you guys for all of your help and maybe this could be in the FAQ.


2nd I AM THE BIGGEST DUMB@SS IN THE WORLD!

Who wants to guess what my problem was? Anybody?

Well guess what? If you hook the ground wire that is supposed to ground the STARTER ot the frame and don't ground the starter itself the starter will not work. STUPID STUPID STUPID!:grr

So for any of you tearing your bikes down learn from me. TAKE GOOD NOTES on where things go.

What really pisses me of is that I know better!

Thanks Again you guys,
Jason the Brain dead

[Leo]

Originally posted by Leo
the heavy gauge cable that runs to the battery should have +12v all the time.

the other heavy gauge cable (that runs to the starter) should have +12v when the button is pushed.


LOL... this should've tipped you off :)

Oh well, at least you got 'er fixed :-D

Leo