Stage6 PVL

[mydirtkids]

Trying to setup a new motor and ignition. Got a 44 crank and 85 rod. Stage6 "Itinglish" says set at 3.63mm=.143" for the dial indicator. That part no problem.

Issues:

Issue #1:
The stator will not turn far enough to the line up the indicator marks with their recommended setting. It is close, but not centered. With the CRANK turned further away from TDC (CCW), If I remember correctly, the dial says about .152'ish to get the indicator marks centered :confused:

Issue #2:
The frame mount for the coil is going to have to be modified. The slots for those bolt holes are way too narrow to fit to the original DRR mounting tabs.

Anyone else with this ignition have these problems? If it will start (think so even out of timing) will this hurt the motor for break-in? I am scheduled for the dyno tomorrow to fine tune everything.

Just terrified to even start it without some info...not to mention I snapped one of those quality DRR bolts off in the NEW Malossi head while fitting the exhaust flange :eek: Good thing I didn't play poker tonight....

[riding4fun]

Mount the stator, Set your timing first, hold it there then put the rotor on the crank lined up with the hash marks.

As far as the coil is concerned it's up to you how to do it. Just modify it somehow.

[mydirtkids]

Thats the problem... The Stage 6 stator has three screws that secure it when the hash marks are aligned. I ran out of slot to move the stator to align the hash marks (according to the specified timing per the instruction). If I could move the stator about 1/8" more the marks would line up... Stator needs to move CW. There is no other way to mount the stator back plate either.. It (back plate) only goes on ONE way.

BTW.. only took me 6 hrs to get that damn broken damn exhaust bolt out and re-tapped to a 7-1... Now lets go find one of those...DAMN :mad:

[Logan #34's Dad]

You have got to have something wrong. The Stage6 ignition is really simple. Do you have the mark on the stator toward the top side of the engine? Around 11 o'clock. You'll need to pull the rotor off the crank and redo it.
Put the stator around the middle of the three slots. Find top dead center then rotate the crank backwards (while on the stator side). Install the flywheel (rotor) while lining up the lines on the stator and rotor. Once the two are lined up, push the rotor on then hit it with a deadblow hammer so in goes on tight enough to not move until you can really tighten it down with a good impact gun.
Once its tight, re-check to make sure the two lines match up at the desired timing you want. If they are not perfect, then slide the stator in the slots to get the lines to be lined up. Tighten the three bolts - your done.

[jerkyboy]

I believe the stage6 rotor has a keyway in it like the stock ones. Only goes on one way. If all else fails drill and tap 3 new holes in the back plate. Id call the place you bought it from and ask them.

[Logan #34's Dad]

Neither of my Stage6's have keyways.

[jerkyboy]

Rocky I dont have one I am still running the older analog pvl.
But a guy at our local track has a stage6 on his 70 and it has
a keyway. I just thought they were all the same. My bad.

[Logan #34's Dad]

if he is doing everything correct then i think i'd remove the keyway.

[TTracer#22]

I just installed on on my 90 after running the old style PVL for ever it have a keyway slot cut in it but the the slot was cut wrong so I wasn't able to use it with the keyway if you set it like Rocky explained you can't go wrong. it works just fine without putting the key in.

[zach R 7x]

You have to remove the keyway to set the stage 6 ignition up right .

We ran into the same problem, talked to MaxRpm and he set us strait . The 70's are close with the use of the keyway but 90's are way off.

Good Luck!

Tim

[mmsoup]

Just for edification..... I am running a Stage 6 Crank (44mm 85 rod) a malossi BB and the Stage 6 PVL. We received the motor set up originally and and recently I had to change the crank seals, when I went to reinstall I found the same issue.
The original set-up had been secured in the middle of the slots and would have indicated a 3.20 mm setting which is the stock crank setting. The quad ran fine.
I inserted a hex key and adjusted as far out as I could and the quad ran fine. I don't have the benefit of a dyno to determine any real power curve differentiation but felt like it revved out better at the 3.52mm setting.
Regardless it caused no significant problem and with the hex key inserted I feel confident that it won't slip time. I am considering removing the key and reinstalling just to see what performance will be like.

[mydirtkids]

Well, after pondering a little, I noticed one of the washers for the rotor adjustment screws was smacking another one of the rotor (fixed) screws. This would not allow FULL use of the slotted area, and with my setup would have advanced the timing by .012". I simply took off that one washer (from the factory) and VIOLA!!:D :D

The stator can now move about one hash mark thru the specified timing for the setup.

I swear I graduated the 6th grade and had this thing set-up per the instructions.

The keyway was still used.

This is mounted on a 2-fast 44 crank w/85 rod and Malossi big bore. (90 cases).

Zach R 7x.. not sure what setup you were using (stroke/rod), but I got the stator to travel about a 1/4" simply by taking that washer off...

Logan.. The stage6 ignition (small taper) has a keyway. If you are running a large taper, I think the keyway may not be used. Not positive

mmsoup... You basically have the same setup I am running. You mentioned the 3.2... that was for the "other" engine. The chart in the back of the install section says we "should" run 3.63. The only way I was able to achieve this was to remove that silly washer (right smaller adjustment screw)

Holly Smokes all, I really appreciate all the responses! I can't thank you guys enough for keeping track with the forum. Good luck to all of you! And if you need any bolts sheard off, just let me know.

:)

[zach R 7x]

We also have the 2fast with the 44 and 85 rod. We did test it on the Dyno with the keyway out and in . The dyno showed more horsepower with keyway in and the ignition all the way retarded,by at least 1 full horsepower! Put it on the ground and it was a "TURD" on bottom end! After talking to Justin and a few other engine builders, they told me to remove the keyway and use the dial indicater to set the rotor using the spec's from the directions. Horsepower did go down a little but our "ET" went up alot!

Like I said ... " Big" difference in bottom end!

Just my .02.... Worked for us, may not work for everybody.

[bulldogfallon]

No keyway used on our builds with the S6 Ignition.


Set the stator plate so the bolts are in the middle (tighten)


Find TDC and then time accordingly

Fasten the rotor in place

Then recheck the timing as tightening the rotor can throw it off (if rotor moves)

If it is off then move the stator plate to make the final adjustment.

That is how we install them

[riding4fun]

Originally posted by bulldogfallon
No keyway used on our builds with the S6 Ignition.


Set the stator plate so the bolts are in the middle (tighten)


Find TDC and then time accordingly

Fasten the rotor in place

Then recheck the timing as tightening the rotor can throw it off (if rotor moves)

If it is off then move the stator plate to make the final adjustment.

That is how we install them


X2

[raidernut]

kind of weird. I have all motors both 70 and 90 set up with s6 keyway in, and have no problems setting timing either retarded or advanced with the keyway in.

[mydirtkids]

Thanks Gary and everyone... Have not started the motor yet, and probably would have been back on here afterwards. Your method seems much more savvy than the instructions call for

Any problems with the rotor moving? Are you guys using a torque wrench to set the rotor nut and any other trick with removing the crankshaft key?

WHY ARE YOU GUYS NOT WRITING THE MANUALS FOR THE MANUFACTURERS???? They should pay you guys a fee or something for helping people with their lousy directions. I can completely understand everything you say. Thanks again for all your support.

;)

Unfortunately I can't put the motor back in tonight to run it,,,, just found another crack in the frame :(

[riding4fun]

I just used a very small standard screwdriver and pried it out by tapping it out with a hammer

Didn't use a torque wrench and rotor has not moved.

[Logan #34's Dad]

As far as the rotor spinning on the shaft. It is completely possible that it might. I use blue locktite - smear some on the inside of the rotor before you install it.
As far a torquing the nut - once you tap the rotor onto the shaft, get a good battery powered impact gun and drive the nut down as far as the gun will allow. At home, i've used an air torque gun.

[mydirtkids]

The loctite was what I was wondering. I had to transfer the actual key to the new crank when assembling. Thanks Logans dad. I think I will check it on the brake dyno first, then take out the key. Want to check and tune it both ways.

[mmsoup]

Thanks Guys

I have Kiras bike torn down getting ready for NY and will reassemble per your instructions. I was scared to eliminate the key the last time I put it together